31 replies to this topic

[F.M.]

Asked if he felt the team could be realistically fighting at the front, Mallya relpied: "Yes, we should be.

"We signed up the Mercedes package way in advance, we started designing the 2014 car early, we dedicated the wind tunnel to the development of the 2014 car back in May. [That was] a lot earlier than we would normally have done and that's probably one of the reasons why we fell off in 2013 after the tyre change; because we didn't have the wind tunnel and other resources to try and fix that problem.

"Nevertheless, now with an optimistic design team, a hungry driver line-up, there's no reason why we should not be fighting with the big boys."

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/139547.html

Edited by F.M., 14 December 2013 - 12:37.

[Jackmancer]

Well, maybe it can challenge Lotus, and beat Sauber again - but Merc, RBR and Ferrari? Don't think so.

[sopa]

Well, maybe it can challenge Lotus, and beat Sauber again - but Merc, RBR and Ferrari? Don't think so.

 

Not many people gave chances to Red Bull and/or Brawn against Ferrari, BMW Sauber or McLaren before 2009.

 

It is not against realms of possibility Force India could be among the teams to hit ground running early 2014 and be at the front. However, finances will be a concern and maintaining a high level of performance over a full season. Because as we have seen, FI has traditionally been capable of performing well only for half a year.

[DS27]

No harm in being optimistic - and he's hardly going to say we will do worse or no better than this year.

I hope for the Hulks sake they are very competitive. Would be great to see them out-perform Lotus.

[Jimisgod]

They might strike gold in the design race. No one imagines a WDC, but if the Mercedes is a good engine wins are not off the table.

Realistically 4th is possible and probable.

[Timothy]

Well, maybe it can challenge Lotus, and beat Sauber again - but Merc, RBR and Ferrari? Don't think so.

 

What about Mclaren? Where in the order do you place them?

[Fastcake]

It's certainly possible. They have two decent drivers, a Mercedes engine that is apparently very good (if that's not a self-sustaining rumour now) and a design team that have produced consistently decent cars. Becoming a constant front runner is a tough task, but podium contenders for some of the season is achievable. There's nothing wrong with being ambitious.

[Jimisgod]

What about Mclaren? Where in the order do you place them?

Realistically, they have been bleeding engineering talent and the car has to be developed by a rookie and one J. Button who notoriously couldn't solve balance issues in many of his recent seasons. The Mercedes deal is in its final year and they will be working towards accommodating a Honda donk in 2015.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Unless they find a Brawn type of loophole (ala the Double Decker Diffuser) that can give them an advantage , the other leading teams have the resources to overhaul and out develop the very quickly.

[George Costanza]

Unless they find a Brawn type of loophole (ala the Double Decker Diffuser) that can give them an advantage , the other leading teams have the resources to overhaul and out develop the very quickly.

 

In a way, I agree. (I think Mercedes is the team to beat in 2014).

[Jon83]

Slightly misleading thread title. 

[Timothy]

Realistically, they have been bleeding engineering talent and the car has to be developed by a rookie and one J. Button who notoriously couldn't solve balance issues in many of his recent seasons. The Mercedes deal is in its final year and they will be working towards accommodating a Honda donk in 2015.

 

I wouldn't wright them off based on your reasoning. Mclaren has never relied on individual super stars in their design team, their structure thrives on a collective. With regards to JB and the rookie being unable or lack to "develop" the car, its a myth proven to be overstated and a bit of a low blow to be honest but funny nonetheless.

[DutchQuicksilver]

They have a good driver pairing to be able to finish 4th in the championship. I don't rate the Hulkenberg/Pérez lower than the Grosjean/Maldonado one. And with the Mercedes engine under their belt, Force India could be one of the early surprises in 2014. Let's just hope they capitalize on that, which they failed to do in 2013 with those silly mistakes during pitstops early on.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think Force India did a good job on the 09-13 rules but were helped by lack of testing/development. With things loosening up slightly the big teams(big in both finance and experience/infrastructure{Williams}) will have more room to make advantages.

[dau]

I underestimated them for every single season since Mallya took over. Not going to make that mistake for 2014.

[MikeV1987]

It would be nice to see, they deserve some great results. I have a lot of respect for that team.

Edited by MikeV1987, 14 December 2013 - 22:22.

[Blinkandimgone]

Maybe a shakeup in the order would be great for f1 at the moment But I will be honest such a hard season to predict with the new rule changes.

[Rjpscr]

Dont get why people count out all the Midfield teams all the time that they cant fight at the top. look at Brawn in 2009 they came out of no were and button won the title same thing for Red bull they were a midfield team at the time before 2009 , and look at  Mclaren they didn't score 1 single podium finish this year. I'm just saying anything could happen each year And being a Williams fan im hoping someday Williams could fight at the top again. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Brawn had a massive budget to prepare for the rule change, and found a loophole.

[Anderis]

At the moment we can't predict who will find a loophole and who will not.

 

It's true there are no really reach teams in the midfield right now who could outspend frontrunnes developing cars to new rules. But for 2009 we've seen some dramatic changes in the whole pecking order even if some of them didn't last long.

 

Don't forget Brawn had only 3 months to adapt the car to the new engine and at the beginning of design process, the car was intended to run with KERS. They managed to be competitive despite last-minute plan change and rather little budget for development from 1st test day onwards. That was a significant disadvantage, so we can't rule out someone from midfield can repeat it, with less money, but with more stable situation and knowing which engine they're going to use from the beginning.

Edited by Anderis, 14 December 2013 - 23:27.

[Thomas99]

Not many people gave chances to Red Bull and/or Brawn against Ferrari, BMW Sauber or McLaren before 2009.

 

It is not against realms of possibility Force India could be among the teams to hit ground running early 2014 and be at the front. However, finances will be a concern and maintaining a high level of performance over a full season. Because as we have seen, FI has traditionally been capable of performing well only for half a year.

 

Red Bull and Brawn both had a far larger budget than those teams. 

[Thomas99]

Dont get why people count out all the Midfield teams all the time that they cant fight at the top. look at Brawn in 2009 they came out of no were and button won the title same thing for Red bull they were a midfield team at the time before 2009 , and look at  Mclaren they didn't score 1 single podium finish this year. I'm just saying anything could happen each year And being a Williams fan im hoping someday Williams could fight at the top again. 

I don't know why people cite Brawn's performance like they're a midfield team.

 

The 2009 car by Brawn was by many estimations the most expensive car ever made. 

[NexusIcon]

Stranger things have happened.....


..... Though not as often as we'd like as F1 fans.


Money talks, in this game.

[Brother Fox]

A race win capable Force India would answer a lot of questions for both their drivers I reckon

[FPV GTHO]

Force India made similar comments coming into the 2009 season but they didn't have the budget then to step up and they don't now. You need a top 4 budget to fight with the top 4, or get yourself into huge debt like Lotus have done.

[sopa]

Force India made similar comments coming into the 2009 season but they didn't have the budget then to step up and they don't now. You need a top 4 budget to fight with the top 4, or get yourself into huge debt like Lotus have done.

 

Coming into 2009 they had been the last team in 2008, so I doubt they were talking about wins straightaway. Maybe as a long-term goal.

Oh, and by the way, in the last third of the 2009 season Force India was actually one of the fastest cars on the grid, starting from Spa. Sutil also qualified 2nd, 4th and 3rd on various circuits after that.

[Peter Perfect]

I don't know why people cite Brawn's performance like they're a midfield team.

 

The 2009 car by Brawn was by many estimations the most expensive car ever made. 

To be fair the Brawn situation would be like Ferrari giving Caterham one of their cars next week but denying them use of the Ferrari engine. The car may have been top but BrawnF1 had to cut their staff and resources massively just to keep racing through the season never mind developing the car.

[Sin]

lets put it this way: hoping for a 1999 for them

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

I don't know why people cite Brawn's performance like they're a midfield team.

 

The 2009 car by Brawn was by many estimations the most expensive car ever made. 

 

Possibly but only because Honda allocated all their 2008 and 2009 budget at the car. Come 2009 season though, Honda pulled out and Brawn had a very good car but a tiny budget (relatively speaking)  to run the season on.

[BRG]

A race win capable Force India would answer a lot of questions for both their drivers I reckon

But not the question "How come they didn't win any races?"  

[Gyan]

They've been steadily moving up each season. They could have had a couple of podiums at the start of 2013 as well, but strategy and pitstop mess-ups put paid to that. Best poised team for upward mobility.

[Khars]

Dont get why people count out all the Midfield teams all the time that they cant fight at the top. look at Brawn in 2009 they came out of no were and button won the title same thing for Red bull they were a midfield team at the time before 2009 , and look at  Mclaren they didn't score 1 single podium finish this year. I'm just saying anything could happen each year And being a Williams fan im hoping someday Williams could fight at the top again. 

 

A certain Mr. Newey was woring at RB for a while before 2009, he tried some stuff (remember the shark fins?), but the general opinion was his days are almost over. But there were luckily a huge budget and a rule change.

Brawn's case a bit different, but there was no legal act against team owner or bad news about not paid electricity bills or a crew without money (like in case of FI, Sauber and Lotus).

I guess the 2012 Mercedes level can be compared to 2008 RB level (however they were to good in 2013), but again, it is only speculation.

 

By the way, who can be the tech guru at FI for loophole? At Sauber? Lotus still has some loyal tech team? Strong driver pairs not enough in itself, see Honda 2008, this was almost the same team in 2009.