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Ferrari F14 T


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#101 Iridescent

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 23:40

059/3 stands for no of engine/ specification; we are also in the 3rd year of its development.

The car is likely to be called 166T, though not too sure as internally it is still referred to as 665 by the internal coding. Judging by the schedule, do not expect to see any of it bf the last week of Jan.

 If I have to describe it with one word, I'd say 'sleek', def not beautiful in the traditional sense.

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#102 keiichi

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 00:01

Thanks for the info Iridiscent!

 

Sleek seems kind of an abstract concept, particularly when you say it's not beautiful in the traditional sense. But hey, as long as it's fast, that's all that is going to matter...



#103 RedOne

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:21

059/3 stands for no of engine/ specification; we are also in the 3rd year of its development.

The car is likely to be called 166T, though not too sure as internally it is still referred to as 665 by the internal coding. Judging by the schedule, do not expect to see any of it bf the last week of Jan.

If I have to describe it with one word, I'd say 'sleek', def not beautiful in the traditional sense.


Sounds fast ;))

#104 HPT

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:30

Sounds fast ;))

 

Damn fast  :D



#105 Zava

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:43

found some pictures of the power unit on f1technical (courtesy of diemaster)
 

 

 

 

KNN8Czf.jpg

 

 

and the presentation video (I assume, I'm in a hurry so I won't see it for another 5 hours  :p )

 

 

p.s.: I guess I'll be a regular in this topic for the year coming, so hi guys and girls  :wave:


Edited by Zava, 20 December 2013 - 06:44.


#106 David1976

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:39

Wow.  Looks good.  I cannot wait to hear what it sounds like.



#107 caccamolle

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 13:10

It also means Webber picked a good time to retire.  :p

 

Nice one !

 

But I will say:  It means RB will need to find another way to screw their number 2 driver.


Edited by caccamolle, 20 December 2013 - 13:11.


#108 caccamolle

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 13:16

found some pictures of the power unit on f1technical (courtesy of diemaster)
 

 

 

 

KNN8Czf.jpg

 

 

and the presentation video (I assume, I'm in a hurry so I won't see it for another 5 hours  :p )

 

 

p.s.: I guess I'll be a regular in this topic for the year coming, so hi guys and girls  :wave:

 

It is clear to me that this is the fastest engine ever built !

 

Kidding..

 

But from JA comments Ferrari really looking strong for next year.  I was taken aback by his optimism.  Saying they have everything they need to win is sort of … dangerous !!!  Hey, but given his reputation and his history at Ferrari, I will take it.



#109 vista

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:26

Ferrari fans to choose name of the car:

 

http://uk.eurosport....36912--f1.html?



#110 tifosii

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 14:27

what did JA say about Ferrari next year??



#111 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 16:52

It is clear to me that this is the fastest engine ever built !

 

Kidding..

 

But from JA comments Ferrari really looking strong for next year.  I was taken aback by his optimism.  Saying they have everything they need to win is sort of … dangerous !!!  Hey, but given his reputation and his history at Ferrari, I will take it.

FWIW, while not giving any insights as to why, the Shell fuel & lubricant engineers I've been talking to are all VERY excited about next year. WeWillSee!



#112 kosmos

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:02

Ferrari fans to choose name of the car:

 

http://uk.eurosport....36912--f1.html?

 

That's cool, I gues they will give the fans 3 or 4 names and they will have to choose one.



#113 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:05

We all know Fernando was recently in the driver simulator in the last week learning the new procedures and getting a feel for the new car. The OmniCorse.it interview with James Allison shed light on a few positives for the team. One I haven't seen mentioned here yet is that the simulator has been upgraded since the drivers last used it and Fernando was pleased & liked the new simulator upgrades. Forza Ferrari :up;

#114 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:26

KERS for 33s/lap...that means it will run almost 1/3 of total lap time....a failure will truly be a disaster... :drunk:

Yep. At 33 seconds of 160 hp vs only 600 for the engine, if the ERS system fails, you're done.



#115 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:42

Yep. At 33 seconds of 160 hp vs only 600 for the engine, if the ERS system fails, you're done.

I heard somewhere it will be in the region of 3 secs a lap at some circuits!!



#116 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:53

Anyone know how different the torque output will be vs last year?



#117 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 17:54

I heard somewhere it will be in the region of 3 secs a lap at some circuits!!

Not sure what you mean here. Will ERS use per lap vary by the circuit?



#118 Tosh

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 18:18

Im quite hyped for the new car!



#119 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 18:27

Anyone know how different the torque output will be vs last year?


The 2014 cars will have a tremendous amount of torque compared to last year. Modulating the throttle will be imperative to avoid wheelspin. Drivers are going to have to change the way in which they drive to be quick & not eat up the tyres next year.

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#120 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 19:27

The 2014 cars will have a tremendous amount of torque compared to last year. Modulating the throttle will be imperative to avoid wheelspin. Drivers are going to have to change the way in which they drive to be quick & not eat up the tyres next year.

That's what I've heard, but any idea as to the numbers?



#121 f1RacingForever

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 19:30

The 2014 cars will have a tremendous amount of torque compared to last year. Modulating the throttle will be imperative to avoid wheelspin. Drivers are going to have to change the way in which they drive to be quick & not eat up the tyres next year.

Thinking that will benefit Kimi. He always seems to have smooth throttle inputs.



#122 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 21:32

Here's a kinda cool new video I just received from Shell & Ferrari. I uploaded to our FB page.  In it, Shell's Guy Lovett & Mike Evans, and Ferrari's Luca Marmorini & Mattia Binotto take a look at the new F1 powertain & walk us through some 2014 F1 engine & ERS design considerations brought on by the new regulations.
 

Edited by AustinF1, 20 December 2013 - 21:44.


#123 l2k2

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:08

That's what I've heard, but any idea as to the numbers?

 

Well, anyone can compute that themselves. If the engines are supposed to have 600 hp at 10500 RPM, they have 410 Nm of torque at that point (and, at 15000 RPM they will "only" have 280 Nm of torque). (Compared to approximately 300–330 Nm of torque for the 2.4L V8 (where the 300 Nm exist at the rev limiter), or 370–400 Nm for the late V10 engines.)

 

However, I am quite confident that there will not be more wheelspin because of the extra torque. The reason is simple. The 2014 engine has less power; and thus, less torque at the wheels (after the gearbox, as the slower engine can not run as short gears).



#124 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:13

Well, anyone can compute that themselves. If the engines are supposed to have 600 hp at 10500 RPM, they have 410 Nm of torque at that point (and, at 15000 RPM they will "only" have 280 Nm of torque). (Compared to approximately 300–330 Nm of torque for the 2.4L V8 (where the 300 Nm exist at the rev limiter), or 370–400 Nm for the late V10 engines.)

 

However, I am quite confident that there will not be more wheelspin because of the extra torque. The reason is simple. The 2014 engine has less power; and thus, less torque at the wheels (after the gearbox, as the slower engine can not run as short gears).

Thanks. To my untrained eyes those numbers don't look all that radically different, as I had suspected, just more "abrupt" for lack of a better way to say it...lol.

 

I had also wondered how there was going to be a massive increase in torque with the significant drop in engine power. How do we get to a higher torque with less power...if there's a simple way to explain it?


Edited by AustinF1, 20 December 2013 - 22:16.


#125 kimister

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:19

Well, anyone can compute that themselves. If the engines are supposed to have 600 hp at 10500 RPM, they have 410 Nm of torque at that point (and, at 15000 RPM they will "only" have 280 Nm of torque). (Compared to approximately 300–330 Nm of torque for the 2.4L V8 (where the 300 Nm exist at the rev limiter), or 370–400 Nm for the late V10 engines.)

 

However, I am quite confident that there will not be more wheelspin because of the extra torque. The reason is simple. The 2014 engine has less power; and thus, less torque at the wheels (after the gearbox, as the slower engine can not run as short gears).

 

It is the first time I hear someone claims that next year's engine will have less power and torque  :eek: I think the opposite is valid, moreover because of the expected higher power, pirelli feel the need to increase rear tyres' width:

 

Pirelli’s Paul Hembery said: “At the moment we don’t know exactly what to expect.

“But the numbers we are hearing are enormous. We will have to have wider rear tyres, but how wide is something we will have to decide in consultation with the teams.”

 

http://grandprix247....an-current-v8s/ 



#126 LarsB

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:41

The 1.6 V6T wil have more engine torque than the V8, but not more wheeltorque. And that's what counts.

Simple 'roadcar-comparison': a VW Golf GTi has over 300 Nm engine torque, a Honda  VTEC-engine (any Type R-model) roughly 200 Nm. Still, the 2 cars are just as fast. For the simple reason that the VTEC-engine gets it's torque out of the rev's and therefore has about the same wheel torque as the GTi. 

Maybe the extra - and for a far more longer period of time - electrical power is the reason for the wider rears?


Edited by LarsB, 20 December 2013 - 22:43.


#127 Gasp

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:52

Kimi will start the test at Jerez january 28-29, then Alonso continues two days. This has been said by Stefano Domenicali. He also said that Kimi will drive the simulator before Jerez test. :cool:



#128 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:01

However, I am quite confident that there will not be more wheelspin because of the extra torque. The reason is simple. The 2014 engine has less power; and thus, less torque at the wheels (after the gearbox, as the slower engine can not run as short gears).

I disagree as do current drivers who have been in the simulator with next years car.

"It is so, so different."

He said the mixture of increased torque and reduced downforce would be an intriguing challenge.

"It is going to be tricky because we do have a lot more torque with the engine.

"There is a lot to learn for all of us, even the experienced drivers, and it is exciting.

"You want to be out on circuit at the tricky corners, even Turn 2/3 [at Jerez] will be tough to get the power down.

"You need a throttle pedal that is a metre long to control the torque of the engine.


Jenson Button on 2014 car

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 20 December 2013 - 23:02.


#129 AustinF1

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:14

It is the first time I hear someone claims that next year's engine will have less power and torque  :eek: I think the opposite is valid, moreover because of the expected higher power, pirelli feel the need to increase rear tyres' width:

 

Pirelli’s Paul Hembery said: “At the moment we don’t know exactly what to expect.

“But the numbers we are hearing are enormous. We will have to have wider rear tyres, but how wide is something we will have to decide in consultation with the teams.”

 

http://grandprix247....an-current-v8s/ 

I didn't think he said the torque would be lower....and from everything I've been hearing, most teams are expecting around 600hp from the engine & 150 or so from the ERS. Of course, any or all of them could be and likely are sandbagging. The question is how much?



#130 Jvr

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:25

The issue of power as well of torque is related to the fact how the engine (or power unit) delivers it over different revs. Electric motors deliver very linear torque and actually their torque is at the maximum of 0 revs. Hence the behaviour of the new power unit (combustion engine combined with electric motors) will be most different at the corners where you will not have max revs but the new power unit is having more torque in comparison to traditional high rev non turbo combustion engines. That means that combined with lower downforce, exiting the corner comes very interesting since the chassis is creating less grip due to reduced downforce but higher torque in the revs in use makes the engine to accelerate in revs much faster...

#131 DrF

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:29

Doesn't matter where Alonso would be better off. I'm not worried about Alonso himself. The point is that Ferrari would be far worse off without him.

Stick Alonso in any other competitive car like the Lotus or the Mercedes and he'd be a damn ****ing nuisance for us, you can be sure of that.

Which is why they brought Kimi back.

#132 f1RacingForever

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:42

059/3 stands for no of engine/ specification; we are also in the 3rd year of its development.

The car is likely to be called 166T, though not too sure as internally it is still referred to as 665 by the internal coding. Judging by the schedule, do not expect to see any of it bf the last week of Jan.

 If I have to describe it with one word, I'd say 'sleek', def not beautiful in the traditional sense.

Do you know when any real pictures will be released?



#133 BillBald

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:44

The issue of power as well of torque is related to the fact how the engine (or power unit) delivers it over different revs. Electric motors deliver very linear torque and actually their torque is at the maximum of 0 revs. Hence the behaviour of the new power unit (combustion engine combined with electric motors) will be most different at the corners where you will not have max revs but the new power unit is having more torque in comparison to traditional high rev non turbo combustion engines. That means that combined with lower downforce, exiting the corner comes very interesting since the chassis is creating less grip due to reduced downforce but higher torque in the revs in use makes the engine to accelerate in revs much faster...

 

There are a couple of other factors. Drivers have always been able to short-shift as a way of dealing with excessive wheelspin, but it looks like that might not work too well with these power units.

 

Also, the amount of electric power available will vary according to how much the battery is charged, so drivers might sometimes be caught out by that.



#134 AustinF1

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:04

There are a couple of other factors. Drivers have always been able to short-shift as a way of dealing with excessive wheelspin, but it looks like that might not work too well with these power units.

 

Also, the amount of electric power available will vary according to how much the battery is charged, so drivers might sometimes be caught out by that.

I was wondering about that too. In order for the ERS to be available 33 sec/lap, then it is going to need to charge very quickly & drivers will likely have to be wise how they use it.



#135 Ferrari2183

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:57

I said it before and I will say it again... I think next years regulations are right up Raikkonen's ally and for this reason I think he is going to push Alonso real close. I still feel that Alonso will come out on top as he is definitely the more adaptable of the two and has already stated that he is prepared to go to school on the Raikkonen style should he find himself behind.

 

I think this pairing is going to elevate Ferrari and the drivers to new heights if the car is competitive.


Edited by Ferrari2183, 21 December 2013 - 04:57.


#136 boldhakka

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:32

I said it before and I will say it again... I think next years regulations are right up Raikkonen's ally and for this reason I think he is going to push Alonso real close. I still feel that Alonso will come out on top as he is definitely the more adaptable of the two and has already stated that he is prepared to go to school on the Raikkonen style should he find himself behind.
 
I think this pairing is going to elevate Ferrari and the drivers to new heights if the car is competitive.


Sums up my feelings exactly. There's a lot to be optimistic about and it's gonna be a lot of fun.

I suspect the car itself will be highly reliable and a solid baseline initially. With improvements to process and development tools that have been put in, I further think that the in-season development will be very strong.

#137 Timothy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:55

AustinF1

 

Turbo's and naturally aspirated motors have a different way of deploying power and torque across their respective rev ranges even though Hp and N.m figures maybe similar. A turbo motor will reach maximum torque very early in its rev range and remain pretty constant across, hence the plateau curve. Whereas a naturally aspirated motor will only reach maximum torque late in its rev range close to power max, hence the peaky curve.

 

Its this full amount of torque available early on that's going to inhibit drivers from just mashing the throttle coming out of slow turn relative to what they've been used to.

 

Not very eloquently put but I hope it makes sense. :blush:



#138 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:06

Domenicalli said Kimi will test two first days with new Ferrari 28.1 and 29.1 at jerez, Kimi will also do simulator work before that! Alonso will drive 30.1-31.1 and has done some simulator work already.

#139 Massa

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:40

http://www.nextgen-a...ease,70761.html

 


"They (the other teams) only want it because they are realising they are having problems," Domenicali is quoted by Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport.

"The argument that bigger drivers are disadvantaged is only an excuse," he added. "They always have been (at a disadvantage), as even when a car is well below the limit, he (a heavier driver) has less ballast to move around."



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#140 kosmos

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 14:52

Finally some attitude from Domenicali, finally.



#141 Cyanide

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:05

Domenicalli said Kimi will test two first days with new Ferrari 28.1 and 29.1 at jerez, Kimi will also do simulator work before that! Alonso will drive 30.1-31.1 and has done some simulator work already.

 

Simulator work? That's a first. 



#142 Ferrari2183

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:10

http://www.nextgen-a...ease,70761.html

Yabba dabba doo. Domenicali has grown a pair...

Better late than never I suppose.

Edit: I always knew Ferrari were interested in Kubica but I didn't know they were that close to a deal... It puts some perspective on the Raikkonen signing as well.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 21 December 2013 - 15:13.


#143 AustinF1

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:14

AustinF1

 

Turbo's and naturally aspirated motors have a different way of deploying power and torque across their respective rev ranges even though Hp and N.m figures maybe similar. A turbo motor will reach maximum torque very early in its rev range and remain pretty constant across, hence the plateau curve. Whereas a naturally aspirated motor will only reach maximum torque late in its rev range close to power max, hence the peaky curve.

 

Its this full amount of torque available early on that's going to inhibit drivers from just mashing the throttle coming out of slow turn relative to what they've been used to.

 

Not very eloquently put but I hope it makes sense. :blush:

Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the help!



#144 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:37

Simulator work? That's a first.


Yup Kimi will do simulator work during january before the testing...and no it's not the first time he does it :)

#145 Timothy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:45

“Being able to build the engine and chassis together is definitely a nice advantage for Ferrari,” said James at the presentation of the 059/3. “Other teams cannot do the same and this year, like never before, installing the new power unit in the car’s chassis will be a complex operation. I’ve got direct experience of that from my time at Lotus: it’s true the engine supplier tries to meet your demands, but it’s never the same thing as happens here, where there is a historical culture relating to a common task of defining and developing the design of the new car.”

 

Do you guys think the building of engine and chassis in house has a definitive advantage or has this been overplayed? This of course brings me to Red Bull, are they the official works team for Renault?

 

Thanks.



#146 HPT

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:14

“Being able to build the engine and chassis together is definitely a nice advantage for Ferrari,” said James at the presentation of the 059/3. “Other teams cannot do the same and this year, like never before, installing the new power unit in the car’s chassis will be a complex operation. I’ve got direct experience of that from my time at Lotus: it’s true the engine supplier tries to meet your demands, but it’s never the same thing as happens here, where there is a historical culture relating to a common task of defining and developing the design of the new car.”

 

Do you guys think the building of engine and chassis in house has a definitive advantage or has this been overplayed? This of course brings me to Red Bull, are they the official works team for Renault?

 

Thanks.

 

Yes Red Bull is the official works team of Renault. No idea about how much advantage building engine and chassis in-house would bring but I don't see how difficult it is for the chassis guys to build the car to fit the engine once the shape of the engine and its components have been defined. Perhaps they might save a bit of time when the parts get modified but what else? Perhaps someone can shed some light on this.



#147 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:08

Being able to build the engine and chassis together is definitely a nice advantage for Ferrari,” said James at the presentation of the 059/3. “Other teams cannot do the same and this year, like never before, installing the new power unit in the car’s chassis will be a complex operation. I’ve got direct experience of that from my time at Lotus: it’s true the engine supplier tries to meet your demands, but it’s never the same thing as happens here, where there is a historical culture relating to a common task of defining and developing the design of the new car.”

 

Do you guys think the building of engine and chassis in house has a definitive advantage or has this been overplayed? This of course brings me to Red Bull, are they the official works team for Renault?

 

Thanks.

 

LOL? .....

 

 

 

It is definitely an advantage, no, this is not overplayed. Only two teams have in-house engine production, and yes, it is a disadvantage for Red Bull, even if they are considered as Renault's major partner.


Edited by Szoelloe, 21 December 2013 - 17:14.


#148 jstrains

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:21

Am I the only one who feels that all fear Ferrari for 2014?



#149 Lazy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:33

yes



#150 Kingshark

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:20

Am I the only one who feels that all fear Ferrari for 2014?

 

In the sense that it will be a disaster?

 

You're not the only one.