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Ferrari F14 T


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#3951 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 20:20

Not at all, very easy to make your car 30kmh faster on the straights by taking DF off, but there's a reason top teams don't do it.

 

If the reported fuel issues are true then removal of DF is a way to save fuel with the by product of high speeds on the straights.

 

I'm not buying the slow - fast - slow theory because, if you do that, you're giving the car a breather every 1/3 of a lap and so not properly stress testing it.

 

Yeah, but then we are talking about special low df packages, and I don't think Ferrari did this or it would have been reported. By keeping the same package and just taking out wing angle, I don't think you would suddenly gain 30 kph on the straights. But I could be wrong



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#3952 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 20:22

I know enough about vehicles to know that this makes a difference but can anyone (more qualified than me) quantify this in terms of lap time? Are we talking closing the gap to Mercedes and Williams significantly?

 

Grosjean: "no one wants to run with half the electrical power you have because you'll lose five seconds per lap."

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/112801

 

Which would make the Ferrari time quite quick, actually. But of course Gro is frustrated and may overstate.
 


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 07 March 2014 - 20:22.


#3953 Lazy

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 20:39

Yeah, but then we are talking about special low df packages, and I don't think Ferrari did this or it would have been reported. By keeping the same package and just taking out wing angle, I don't think you would suddenly gain 30 kph on the straights. But I could be wrong

Even if you accept that, you're making a real mess of your testing data for the dubious advantage of keeping your real pace quiet, seems highly counter productive imo.



#3954 bonjon1979a

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:03

Grosjean: "no one wants to run with half the electrical power you have because you'll lose five seconds per lap."

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/112801

 

Which would make the Ferrari time quite quick, actually. But of course Gro is frustrated and may overstate.
 

He has overstated. Quite considerably so, I believe.



#3955 showtime

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:40

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#3956 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:57

Can someone tell me if this gets broadcasted on German Sky? I am looking at the Sky Atlantic program guide for Sunday and cannot see it. And I don't even know what Sky 1 and Sky 2 is :smoking:



#3957 Cyanide

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 22:00

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky Sports. Couple of things from Ted Kravitz:

 

- He still thinks the Ferrari has very high consumption

- Ferrari will be third fastest team in qualifying in Australia

- During the race, they might slip down the order due to high consumption and having to run in economy mode most of the time 



#3958 bonjon1979a

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 22:18

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky Sports. Couple of things from Ted Kravitz:

- He still thinks the Ferrari has very high consumption
- Ferrari will be third fastest team in qualifying in Australia
- During the race, they might slip down the order due to high consumption and having to run in economy mode most of the time


Are we buying this? If the consumption thing is true then it's catastrophic. Don't know how anyone can say it with any certainty though.

#3959 Cyanide

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 22:35

Are we buying this? If the consumption thing is true then it's catastrophic. Don't know how anyone can say it with any certainty though.

 

Ted Kravitz has been saying for a while that the Ferrari engine is more thirsty. Might be true, might not.

 

I personally believe the ERS problem more, because it explains the twitchy rear end of the car when ERS was run at full capacity. Furthermore, it would explain why race sim times were so horrid - they supposedly reduced the capacity of the ERS to be able to conduct somewhat of a race simulation, which also reduced their pace. The reduction in power would also explain the gap of one second to Mercedes. 

 

Then again, this is all optimism, hope and wishful thinking. While the ERS issue explains a lot of things we saw in testing, it contradicts the top speed. Especially since Ferrari were running high downforce rear wings with massive Gurney flaps and supposedly a high downforce config. Gear ratios are fixed this year, so I doubt they modified anything in there. No explanation for the top speed if ERS capacity was reduced on purpose.

 

As said before, Australia is around the corner, we'll have to wait and see. 


Edited by Cyanide, 07 March 2014 - 22:38.


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#3960 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 22:53

 

No explanation for the top speed if ERS capacity was reduced on purpose.

 

Couldn't they have turned up the ERS for the three times they were exceptionally quick through the trap?


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 07 March 2014 - 22:54.


#3961 keiichi

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 23:43

Isn't it possible that the eventual ERS and fuel consumption problems are related? By wich I mean that if the team solves the ERS issues, they'll also automatically solve completely or partialy the fuel consumption issue?



#3962 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:19

Isn't it possible that the eventual ERS and fuel consumption problems are related? By wich I mean that if the team solves the ERS issues, they'll also automatically solve completely or partialy the fuel consumption issue?

 

Yes and no.

If they can run ERS at full power consistently and reliably then that would obviously minimise fuel consumption.That's the goal but wether Ferrari are ready to confidently use ERS at full capacity for a whole race distance is the question.They will eventually master the new power unit but I don't know if they can do it in Australia.It's better to finish races with lower ERS output  if they aren't confident the system is well developed enough to go flat out all the way.

If the V6 turbo on it's own without ERS is too thirsty,we still have to remember that the engines are homologated by parts and not as a whole unit  over many years so the engine developement will continue for years within a ever increasing restricted framework.



#3963 fabr68

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:37

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky Sports. Couple of things from Ted Kravitz:

- He still thinks the Ferrari has very high consumption
- Ferrari will be third fastest team in qualifying in Australia
- During the race, they might slip down the order due to high consumption and having to run in economy mode most of the time


Ok.

So this translates on Ferrari qualifying 5 - 6 spot, and then slipping down the order to finish 8th or 9th.

I miss the 2013 car already.

#3964 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:43

Reminds me of 2009 with all the changes. 

 

Brawn were dominating like Mercedes in testing and Kimi kept urging to calm down, even after Friday practice in Melbourne, saying he is not convinced of the pecking order. Qualifying came, Ferrari were basically 3rd/4th fastest team. 

 

Smells a lot like 2009 to me right now. 



#3965 Miggeex

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:44

Ok.

So this translates on Ferrari qualifying 5 - 6 spot, and then slipping down the order to finish 8th or 9th.

I miss the 2013 car already.

 

We can be happy that racing isn't that straight-forward other than in theory    ;)   



#3966 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:47

Couldn't they have turned up the ERS for the three times they were exceptionally quick through the trap?

 

Could be. But I don't see the point of it, just to post the top speed. 



#3967 Flamini

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:12

Reminds me of 2009 with all the changes. 

 

Brawn were dominating like Mercedes in testing and Kimi kept urging to calm down, even after Friday practice in Melbourne, saying he is not convinced of the pecking order. Qualifying came, Ferrari were basically 3rd/4th fastest team. 

 

Smells a lot like 2009 to me right now. 

 

But Massa said openly after one of the testing session that Ferrari couldn't do Brawn's laptimes.



#3968 rodlamas

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:16

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky Sports. Couple of things from Ted Kravitz:

 

- He still thinks the Ferrari has very high consumption

- Ferrari will be third fastest team in qualifying in Australia

- During the race, they might slip down the order due to high consumption and having to run in economy mode most of the time 

He doesn't say Ferrari is the third fastest team. He says "the car is top-3 material with unlimited fuel in qualifying."



#3969 kosmos

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:34

Just watched the F1 Show on Sky Sports. Couple of things from Ted Kravitz:


- During the race, they might slip down the order due to high consumption and having to run in economy mode most of the time 

 

He said that Ferrari will go down, down, down to the point that the race could end with four Mercedes teams on the top.

 

Risky prediction in my opinion.



#3970 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 13:58

He doesn't say Ferrari is the third fastest team. He says "the car is top-3 material with unlimited fuel in qualifying."

 

Yeah, I apologize, I just rewatched the footage. He said "top 3-material in qualifying trim with unlimited fuel". 

 

Meanwhile, not that it matters, but Bruno Senna reckons it's "for sure, Mercedes 1st, Ferrari 2nd." Maybe he has a grudge against Williams? 

 

 

He said that Ferrari will go down, down, down to the point that the race could end with four Mercedes teams on the top.

 

Risky prediction in my opinion.

 

I wonder if it's that bad. Hard to predict something like that, unless you have insider info. Did anybody from Ferrari publicly disclose they have consumption problems?



#3971 boldhakka

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 14:09

Could be. But I don't see the point of it, just to post the top speed.


No, they would have turned the ERS on full blast to test it for regular testing, and that is when the top speeds would have been recorded. Flip the causation.

#3972 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 14:27

From Formula1.com:

 

"The feeling within Ferrari right now is that the F14 T lacks grip and isn’t yet a match for the Mercedes or maybe even the Williams, but that there is more performance to extract. After a relatively slow start, Fernando Alonso began pushing for more speed, while every time Kimi Raikkonen climbed aboard the new car - named after a poll of the Scuderia’s fans - it seemed to break on him. Thus while Alonso was desperate to see where they fit in relative to their rivals in the final Bahrain test, Raikkonen was looking for his first race simulation. Both drivers have managed this, but even allowing for the usual testing caveats regarding fuel loads - plus the new ones of turbo boost and ERS mapping - it seems that the latest Prancing Horse is close to a second off the pace of the Mercedes and around seven-tenths slower than the Williams."



#3973 mardmarium

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 14:52

On the one hand, rationality tells me that the season hasn´t even started, on the other hand, emotions tell me that I am tired of being behind of…rationality again tells me that it´s really, really hard to win the WDC and even the WCC (if those who drive the best car are great drivers) without the best car.

 

Ferrari options of winning the WDC in 2012 were based on the following equation:

 

Driver perfection + luck + other drivers mistakes+ rivals reliability issues = Ferrari options

 

So, Ferrari needs human being perfection while pushing to the limit and dealing with tons of pressure + reliability to compensate lack of speed (how many times has Ferrari car been slower than other cars? how many times have other cars (especially the best car) had reliability issues? + lady luck…something is wrong in this equation

 

LdM has said that Ferrari hadn´t had the second best car last season, so Ferrari should had been fifth in the WDC. Where should Ferrari have finished in the WCC if Kimi had been in Lotus at the end of the season? Now we have Domenicali saying that we are behind of…I try to avoid speculations, but what they say are not speculations and I cannot ignore that.

 

Having said so, the season hasn´t even started, so I will wait and see what happens. 



#3974 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:18

Could be. But I don't see the point of it, just to post the top speed. 

 

Test what it does on full power, gather the data, and return it to a safer level?

 

Edit: boldhakka was quicker.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 08 March 2014 - 15:21.


#3975 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:20

From Formula1.com:

 

"The feeling within Ferrari right now is that the F14 T lacks grip and isn’t yet a match for the Mercedes or maybe even the Williams, but that there is more performance to extract. After a relatively slow start, Fernando Alonso began pushing for more speed, while every time Kimi Raikkonen climbed aboard the new car - named after a poll of the Scuderia’s fans - it seemed to break on him. Thus while Alonso was desperate to see where they fit in relative to their rivals in the final Bahrain test, Raikkonen was looking for his first race simulation. Both drivers have managed this, but even allowing for the usual testing caveats regarding fuel loads - plus the new ones of turbo boost and ERS mapping - it seems that the latest Prancing Horse is close to a second off the pace of the Mercedes and around seven-tenths slower than the Williams."

 

Does formula1.com have original material? Most of the time it seems they just summarize the news we heard before.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 08 March 2014 - 15:21.


#3976 magicon

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:37

don't shoot the messenger.



#3977 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 15:46

don't shoot the messenger.

 

:confused:



#3978 as65p

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:00

don't shoot the messenger.

Wrong. In here, everyone is held accountable for the words of his voice. This... is... the Autosport Forum. :smoking:



#3979 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:18

Does formula1.com have original material? Most of the time it seems they just summarize the news we heard before.

 

Most likely they predicted the gap based on the timetable from the last day in Bahrain. 

 

 

Test what it does on full power, gather the data, and return it to a safer level?

 

Edit: boldhakka was quicker.

 

That makes sense, but it's not like they haven't run full power in the first Bahrain test to not know how the car behaves. It looked obvious on the YouTube footage. 

 

The high consumption argument by Ted Kravitz makes me worried though as it explains the interrupted race sim by Kimi. Not to mention their dead slow pace during those simulations. 


Edited by Cyanide, 08 March 2014 - 16:19.


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#3980 kosmos

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:32

From Formula1.com:

 

"The feeling within Ferrari right now is that the F14 T lacks grip and isn’t yet a match for the Mercedes or maybe even the Williams, but that there is more performance to extract. After a relatively slow start, Fernando Alonso began pushing for more speed, while every time Kimi Raikkonen climbed aboard the new car - named after a poll of the Scuderia’s fans - it seemed to break on him. Thus while Alonso was desperate to see where they fit in relative to their rivals in the final Bahrain test, Raikkonen was looking for his first race simulation. Both drivers have managed this, but even allowing for the usual testing caveats regarding fuel loads - plus the new ones of turbo boost and ERS mapping - it seems that the latest Prancing Horse is close to a second off the pace of the Mercedes and around seven-tenths slower than the Williams."

 

So Williams is only 0.300 behind Mercedes? :stoned:



#3981 Newbrray

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 16:44

So Williams is only 0.300 behind Mercedes? :stoned:

 

that's if they are behind at all



#3982 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 17:07

Too many theories about Ferrari. First it's an engine that's down on power, then it's useless under both braking and acceleration, then it's a thirsty engine and now it's a lack of aero grip...

Thought this would stop as the season drew closer but instead we're hearing more and more stories.

#3983 BJHF1

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 19:20

Too many theories about Ferrari. First it's an engine that's down on power, then it's useless under both braking and acceleration, then it's a thirsty engine and now it's a lack of aero grip...

Thought this would stop as the season drew closer but instead we're hearing more and more stories.

 

I agree...a lot of digging for fools gold around this time of year lol.

 

Personallly, I've just been sitting back waiting for things to unfold, as there are far too many variables and factors with the new regulations that make trying to predict how a Championship will play out, utterly pointless. Even in the past years (particularly 2010 & 2012) with much more stable regulations, things have not at all been clear cut at many points of the season, so trying to predict things going into this new season is quite naive and desperate. 

 

I'm a bit afraid that on pure performance/lap time side we might once again be let down with this car...but we shall see. I'd rather be pleasantly suprised rather than trying to buy into the hope that Ferrari have a top notch car for a change (as I've done since 2010 basically).



#3984 KingTiger

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 19:30

Another potential problem for Ferrari is McLaren. If their upgrades work, they can easily be another team that's quicker than Ferrari to go along with Mercedes and Williams. They have the engine and drivers to fulfill their potential. 

 

Too many theories about Ferrari. First it's an engine that's down on power, then it's useless under both braking and acceleration, then it's a thirsty engine and now it's a lack of aero grip...

Thought this would stop as the season drew closer but instead we're hearing more and more stories.

 

There's still a good possibility that the car is useless in braking and acceleration and that the engine is thirsty. 



#3985 Torsion

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 20:41

Another potential problem for Ferrari is McLaren. If their upgrades work, they can easily be another team that's quicker than Ferrari to go along with Mercedes and Williams. They have the engine and drivers to fulfill their potential. 

 

 

There's still a good possibility that the car is useless in braking and acceleration and that the engine is thirsty. 

 

Its all relative isn't it? the car might not be great under breaking, but that is fine, we just need to be better than the others. This is why we need to wait until the GP weekend to get a better idea of what is really going on.



#3986 STIGG

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:04

TV programme about Ferrari 2014 preparation 'Horse Power' is on Sky 2 right now!

 

Haven't seen it advertised, not in the TV listings, just randomly came across it!



#3987 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:11

Another potential problem for Ferrari is McLaren. If their upgrades work, they can easily be another team that's quicker than Ferrari to go along with Mercedes and Williams. They have the engine and drivers to fulfill their potential. 

 

 

There's still a good possibility that the car is useless in braking and acceleration and that the engine is thirsty. 

 

Ferrari will do their best in the situation they are in regardless of whether Merc,Macca,Williams or Atilla the Hun are the main competition! Ferrari also has even better drivers to fulfill the unknown potential.

 

There's also a good possibility that the car is better than you think.



#3988 PIJAMAS

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:14

Well, just to give my view on this, unlike Kravitz, I think Ferrari will be like 5th team in qualifying, but maybe can score some big points because I think reliability is gonna be CRITICAL for pretty much everybody The car is incredibly simple and most likely very down on downforce compared to Red Bull, Mclaren, Williams, Mercedes and Lotus But then, I think Ferrari's low drag might reward them when it matters(the races)

#3989 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:18

According to a source at McLaren close to Sky Sports, they are surprised by the high consumption of the Mercedes engine.  

 

Bah, I give up. We can spend days speculating which engine is the best and figure out the pecking order. Roll on Melbourne!



#3990 ApexMouse

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:19

You have CFX eyeballs? Where do I get these?



#3991 Cyanide

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 21:22

It's on thescuderia.net, and according to them, Sky TV reported it. 

 

I haven't tuned in to confirm though. 



#3992 fabr68

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 22:45

Wahtever it is, it is. No excuses.

I do not want to hear the car is a great car, when neither Alonso or Raikkonen can put a lap together due to the mountain of issues the car may have.

#3993 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 23:37

Hopefully the team will bring some new pieces to Melbourne to help the stability. I've been watching some videos from Bahrain and the back end just looks diabolical !

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 March 2014 - 23:38.


#3994 S3baman

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 23:50

I think the fact that the drivers are not as optimistic as the Merc pair and Massa says quite a lot about the current state of the car. The car might have great potential, but so far we haven't seen it. In the only race sims in the last Bahrein test, the times were quite disappointing. Albeit, the drivers weren't pushing at 100% so it's hard to tell the ultimate pace but I can't see us winning in Aussie.



#3995 as65p

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 00:57

Wahtever it is, it is. No excuses.

I do not want to hear the car is a great car, when neither Alonso or Raikkonen can put a lap together due to the mountain of issues the car may have.

There's one good thing about this season, the people who previsously hinted to variying degrees that Ferrari was lacking on the driver side will look double as foolish as before. Or triple, depending on how good Massa will look in the Williams.



#3996 gilez

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 01:34

..so, the idea stated by Allison that the engine manufacturing teams (Ferrari, Mercedes) will have an advantage over the rest was wrong?

#3997 Kingshark

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:25

According to the racing comments' front page, this thread has been "hot" for days. such a shame all the attention is negative, though.



#3998 Hanzo

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:38

According to the racing comments' front page, this thread has been "hot" for days. such a shame all the attention is negative, though.

 

Yes, the "hot" indicator has been there since a few days now, but no cooling problems so far. 81 pages and still going strong. A few problems during the second Bahrain test, when the thread was locked for half a day, but it looks that we all are going to make it to Melbourne. Less than a week to watch the cars there   :clap:


Edited by Hanzo, 09 March 2014 - 04:38.


#3999 Kingshark

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:04

Yes, the "hot" indicator has been there since a few days now, but no cooling problems so far. 81 pages and still going strong. A few problems during the second Bahrain test, when the thread was locked for half a day

 

:rotfl: Brilliant!  :up:



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#4000 fabr68

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 09:49

I think the fact that the drivers are not as optimistic as the Merc pair and Massa says quite a lot about the current state of the car. The car might have great potential, but so far we haven't seen it. In the only race sims in the last Bahrein test, the times were quite disappointing. Albeit, the drivers weren't pushing at 100% so it's hard to tell the ultimate pace but I can't see us winning in Aussie.

 

The problem is the drivers were not pushing 100% not because they did not wanted to, but because they just could not.

 

Both Ferrari drivers are being philosophical.   Lets be honest, what else can they be?  Can they bitch about the car, if it is indeed a turd?


Edited by fabr68, 09 March 2014 - 09:49.