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2014 F1 gearbox


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#1 jcbc3

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 11:55

(I tried to search for an answer or appropriate thread for this, but came up blank except for an archived thread. Hence this new one. If there is an existing answer or thread, please merge or re-direct there )

 

 

 

Just read an article about Button's views on initial F1 testing. This bit had me confused:

 

 

"Winter testing is going to be hilarious in Jerez," said Button, who has tried the 2014 McLaren in the team's simulator.

"It will be cold, the tyres aren't going to work, the cars probably won't work either and when you do get a lap it is probably going to feel weird because you are running higher gears - you get into eighth gear before you get to seventh gear now.

 

 

Any idea how that will work?



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#2 MatsNorway

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 13:03

Lower top speeds, lower corner speeds, Tighter gears.

 

If its their permanent setup they ditch any top speed on monza. They will probably sound silly going nothing but up and up and up and up in gears in no time.

 

And it was something i feared hearing the dyno run with a simulated lap..



#3 TC3000

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 13:29

now, I could be wrong, but as Mat's says, I think it is more meant in context of the gear ratios used, then a physical description of the gearbox/gear change layout/sequence.

they will use a 8 speed gearbox from next year onwards, but the ratios, will have to cover the speed range of tracks during the season (no ratio changes allowed any longer), this combined with the new engines/power plants which will have a wider power band, so you may be inclined to up shift earlier.

 

I don't think, that what he describes is a reference to the actual shift layout, as in physically shifting into 8th and then ofter the next shift be in 7th.

He thinks, based on simulator runs I suppose, that they will go through the gears quicker (as in up-shifting earlier), and due to the characteristics of the new power plants combined with the chosen gear ratios be in top gear earlier, then they are now.



#4 desmo

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 15:55

It's an interesting rule, having a fixed set of ratios for the entire season. There's really no value I can see added to the sport from a fan perspective by optimizing ratios for each event. Imagine if the teams had to run a fixed aero package as well.



#5 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 18:24

I've thought Indycar should try that. Imagine running their 500 super low df package at Long Beach. 



#6 GroupC2

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 19:34

Will it be possible to select rations in an order to suit the circuit, or are their limitations as to the order selected.

 

In the past running HIllclimb cars we did swap 1st, 2nd and third to suit the track.



#7 desmo

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 19:58

I've thought Indycar should try that. Imagine running their 500 super low df package at Long Beach. 

 

They might have to make a special retro long travel non-df suspension to maximize mechanical grip.



#8 MatsNorway

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 21:00

I would love to see some actual body roll and squat on the Formula cars. They would appear faster and more uncontrollable. It would seem like they have more forces in play.

 

Problem with the current gear lock in ratio is that teams would optimise for the average track. So tracks like Monza and Monaco will get sub optimum gears. Monza will have the biggest cap and perhaps rpm limit banging like they used to last years.

 

I do not think it will be a issue on tracks like Monaco. If anything it would be good for the show.


Edited by MatsNorway, 16 December 2013 - 21:08.


#9 indigoid

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 22:52

Can they change diff ratios though?

 

Otherwise yes, Monza will be silly



#10 saudoso

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 23:23

Nope, they can have one regret over the season. Nothing else changes besides that.



#11 Wuzak

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 23:26

Can they change diff ratios though?

 

Otherwise yes, Monza will be silly

 

No, they cannot change diff ratios.

 

My view is that they won't use 8th fro most of the season - only at Spa and Monza.

 

I don't think that Button was signifying closer ratios. Instead that it is not necessary to wring the new engine out to the redline to get the best performance, and will be shifted earlier in the rev range. With the V8s the peak power is just below the rpm limit, whereas these new engines will be near contsant power for the last 4500rpm.



#12 Greg Locock

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 23:58

I read it that he was expecting more use of block shifts, ie 568654 rather than 56787654. If the gears are 'too' close then you lose more time and unsettle the car with each shift than you gain in exact torque maximisation.



#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 00:24

Then why have 8 gears?



#14 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:03

On a different circuit there may be some advantage in holding 7?



#15 Wuzak

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:18

I read it that he was expecting more use of block shifts, ie 568654 rather than 56787654. If the gears are 'too' close then you lose more time and unsettle the car with each shift than you gain in exact torque maximisation.

 

Can they do that with a sequential 'box? 

 

The Ferrari 640/641 used to be able to skip shift, but it wasn't a sequential box.

 

Or do you mean that at an upshift point the driver would shift twice (driver has to initiate each shift)?



#16 Wuzak

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:20

Then why have 8 gears?

 

I think the idea is to have gears that cover the requirements of all tracks.

 

For most tracks I would think 8th will be a passenger. At Monaco 7th would possibly be too.

 

I suppsoe it all depends on how much variation in drag they have as well.



#17 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:24

I imagine in a modern box it would be click pause click and then resettle the car.



#18 Wuzak

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:06

I imagine in a modern box it would be click pause click and then resettle the car.

 

 

So, instead of changing up at 12,000 or 12,500rpm they would hold on to the gear to 15,000rpm then change up twice quickly?



#19 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:39

Instead of accelerating to red line, changing gear, accelerating to red line, changing gear, and accelerating again, just miss out the middle accelerating phase.

 

Is it worth it? I don't know. But that is what came to mind from the description.



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#20 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:09

Clearly F1 is becoming a control class. The power delivery on the engines will need to be similar to utilise the ratios.
I will continue to be a club racer where I can utilise the engine with ratio changes.
They could save tens of millions and have Formula 3 as F1.

#21 Wuzak

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:23

Clearly F1 is becoming a control class. The power delivery on the engines will need to be similar to utilise the ratios.
I will continue to be a club racer where I can utilise the engine with ratio changes.
They could save tens of millions and have Formula 3 as F1.


The ratios are not control ratios. They are free for each team to choose. But they can only choose one set for the season.

The ratios that Red Bull use could be quite different to what Caterham use - even though they use the same engine package. And even though RBR will make both their gearboxes (as they do now).

The engine rules kinda dictate that their power delivery will be very similar in any case.

#22 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:30

I will continue to be a club racer where I can utilise the engine with ratio changes.
 

 

A loss to professional motorsport. Fortunately we still benefit from your wisdom here.



#23 MatsNorway

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 17:22

There will be no silly shifting stuff. Just longer gears for it.

 

They will have the gears high up tighter than before. 

 

Then a nice spread on the lower gears as they got good spread on the power too..


Edited by MatsNorway, 17 December 2013 - 18:05.


#24 mariner

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 20:22

This is how it is actually done !!

 

 

wait for  about 1:40 on the video

 

Well, it is 8 speeds if you include reverse .



#25 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 00:59

A loss to professional motorsport. Fortunately we still benefit from your wisdom here.

Most Proffesional motorsport these days is an entertainment circus. Not motorsport.

#26 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:20

There's no stone tablet that says what motorsport must and must not be. And it's got a long long way to go before it's truly run like a sensible business. 



#27 Powersteer

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 21:12

run high gears to avoid wheelspin, so 8th first then 7 when the car has picked up speed and has more downforce. the new fixed ratio rule should not be as bad as it seems with turbocharge engines torque

 

:cool:



#28 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:56

I think you'll have plenty of downforce if you're ready to go beyond 6th gear.



#29 MatsNorway

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 13:34

With less downforce.. is it reasonable to assume that we will se less variation in downforce settings as the generally is more down on it than optimum?

 

They might be slower due to being some down on power too that might give them back some options back.. thoughts/info on this?


Edited by MatsNorway, 22 December 2013 - 13:34.