119 replies to this topic

[jjurado]

Hi Guys, I was wondering what you all think about the pros and cons of Kimi having a brand new race engineer for 2014, this new guy has never been in that position before, he was Alonso's chassis head engineer.

 

My concerns are that Stella and Alonso are very much like in autopilot after so many years, they know each other and how they need/want to work, what the driver needs as far as set up, etc. etc.

 

Not only Kimi needs to get to know with his new race engineer and learn how to communicate and the engineer needs to learn how to talk, when to talk, what to talk, how to set up the car to get kimi's liking, how to communicate with the rest of the team and management to get what kimi need, etc. etc.

 

There are so many new rules and changes and this new race engineer has never been in the position, he has zero experience, we don't even know if he knows how to read a race. I am sure Ferrari will not put a person that would not be suitable or able to do the job but I am affraid that kimi is under a huge handicap compare to Alonso (due to this issue).

 

What do you all think about it?

 

 

[noikeee]

Ferrari don't appoint incompetent race engineers, and Kimi has driven Formula 1 cars for the majority of the past 12 years for 4 different teams in coordination with a long list of different people throughout the years. I think he'll survive.

[ardbeg]

What happened to Massas guy?

[jjurado]

They have not confirmed it yet but apparently he is following Massa to Williams, it is not confirmed if he would be Massa's race engineer there or if he would take another role within the Williams team, that's what I have read.

[JSDSKI]

What happened to Massas guy?

 

Smedly is on a new adventure with Williams.  Still with Massa.

[Watkins74]

What do you all think about it?

 

I think you covered about 18 of the excuses that will be used for Kimi next year. Well done. 

[Jovanotti]

I think you covered about 18 of the excuses that will be used for Kimi next year. Well done.

And you covered the obvious standard Alonso-fan answer to the OP already in the fifth post. Well done ;) He was merely stating that it could be a disadvantage compared to the Alonso-Stella combo which has almost become the equivalent of the Räikkönen-Slade partnership over the last few years.

No doubt the new race engineer will be competent and won't be an excuse if Alonso gets the better of Kimi, however I wonder why he couldn't bring Slade along as he is obviously Räikkönen's prefered engineer (and no I don't imply favouritism towards Fernando).

Edited by Jovanotti, 18 December 2013 - 01:30.

[jjurado]

This post is for smart people, if you want to come here with your bad ass attitude then keep it to your self and don't expect educate people to answer you, I just don't get along with short minded people so Watkins74, get with the program and don't expect another reply from me.

[as65p]

This post is for smart people, if you want to come here with your bad ass attitude then keep it to your self and don't expect educate people to answer you, I just don't get along with short minded people so Watkins74, get with the program and don't expect another reply from me.

 

So you think it's smart to worry about Ferrari giving their freshly signed star driver a race engineer who puts him "under a huge handicap"?

[jjurado]

Jovanotti, apparently Mark Slade did not want to move to Italy, he wanted to remain in the UK where he is from and I guess near his place and the Lotus factory, I have read somewhere that he has small children and it was kind of a difficult thing for him or he was not willing to move to Italy so I would guess that Kimi did want to bring him to Ferrari and maybe Ferari did accept the request, and I think at the end it was Slade's decision.

[jjurado]

The disccusion is about cons and pros of Kimi having a new race enginneer with no experience, and yes as a Kimi fan I absolutely think it is smart to worry about it, if it is a handicap or not, I am not sure, that's what this thread is for, to discuss it.

 

So you think it's smart to worry about Ferrari giving their freshly signed star driver a race engineer who puts him "under a huge handicap"?

[charly0418]

Without a doubt, one of the hardest jobs in F1

 

Good luck to the new partership

Edited by charly0418, 18 December 2013 - 01:41.

[Jovanotti]

@jjurado: Ok thanks, I must have missed that. In that light then - what choices did Ferrari have? It's right that they promote their own people and I'm sure they will work well together (but probably not as smooth as on Alonso's side of the garage).

Edited by Jovanotti, 18 December 2013 - 01:50.

[RedOne]

Hi Guys, I was wondering what you all think about the pros and cons of Kimi having a brand new race engineer for 2014, this new guy has never been in that position before, he was Alonso's chassis head engineer.

My concerns are that Stella and Alonso are very much like in autopilot after so many years, they know each other and how they need/want to work, what the driver needs as far as set up, etc. etc.

Not only Kimi needs to get to know with his new race engineer and learn how to communicate and the engineer needs to learn how to talk, when to talk, what to talk, how to set up the car to get kimi's liking, how to communicate with the rest of the team and management to get what kimi need, etc. etc.

There are so many new rules and changes and this new race engineer has never been in the position, he has zero experience, we don't even know if he knows how to read a race. I am sure Ferrari will not put a person that would not be suitable or able to do the job but I am affraid that kimi is under a huge handicap compare to Alonso (due to this issue).

What do you all think about it?

"Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing"

[Knot]

Kimi will be fine.

 

The guy could drive through a L10 earthquake and not get rattled.

[halifaxf1fan]

Hi Guys, I was wondering what you all think about the pros and cons of Kimi having a brand new race engineer for 2014, this new guy has never been in that position before, he was Alonso's chassis head engineer.

 

 

What do you all think about it?

 

It is concerning that they have assigned a rookie engineer to Kimi.  There will be lots of work to do understanding the new car and each other.  Kimi needs a guy that will hit the ground running as this will be the challenge of their careers taking on the well established super duo of Alonso/Stella.  There will be no margin for error.

 

This won't be easy going for Spagnolo doing a new job and forced straight away to deal with one of the most demanding drivers in the sport, lets hope he is up for it.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 18 December 2013 - 02:55.

[boldhakka]

So you think it's smart to worry about Ferrari giving their freshly signed star driver a race engineer who puts him "under a huge handicap"?

Well people who think they are smart regularly argue that Ferrari gave their freshly signed star driver a very poor engineering team and infrastructure for the last 4 years, claiming that it put Alonso under a huge handicap. So why not a race engineer?

But don't worry you all. Fernando called his race engineering/strategy team "geniuses", so it's all good.

Edited by boldhakka, 18 December 2013 - 02:47.

[swerved]

It is concerning that they have assigned a rookie engineer to Kimi.  There will be lots of work to do understanding the new car and each other.  Kimi needs a guy that will hit the ground running as this will be the challenge of their careers taking on the well established super duo of Alonso/Stella.  There will be no margin for error.

 

This won't be easy going for Spagnolo doing a new job and forced straight away to deal with one of the most demanding drivers in the sport, lets hope he is up for it.

 

Well Chris Dyer was also new to Kimi, and we all know how fruitful that turned out to be, though of course he wasn't new to the position of Race Engineer, but he also started out with Ferrari as a vehicle engineer, much as Spagnolo did, I think we should give them a chance to gel before we make any judgements, I think there could even be a benefit to starting afresh with new blood 

[Knot]

It is concerning that they have assigned a rookie engineer to Kimi.  There will be lots of work to do understanding the new car and each other.  Kimi needs a guy that will hit the ground running as this will be the challenge of their careers taking on the well established super duo of Alonso/Stella.  There will be no margin for error.

 

This won't be easy going for Spagnolo doing a new job and forced straight away to deal with one of the most demanding drivers in the sport, lets hope he is up for it.

 

Much ado about nothing, imo.

 

They could give Kimi a Tonka truck with bent axles and he'd still be competitive.

[fabr68]

And you covered the obvious standard Alonso-fan answer to the OP already in the fifth post. Well done ;) He was merely stating that it could be a disadvantage compared to the Alonso-Stella combo which has almost become the equivalent of the Räikkönen-Slade partnership over the last few years.

No doubt the new race engineer will be competent and won't be an excuse if Alonso gets the better of Kimi, however I wonder why he couldn't bring Slade along as he is obviously Räikkönen's prefered engineer (and no I don't imply favouritism towards Fernando).

 

Maybe it has to do with moving his life to Italy.   It is much harder when you don't make millions or have a private jet

[CoolBreeze]

Nothing to worry about. Ferrari know what they are doing, and that guy didn't just come into F1 last year. 

[boldhakka]

This is hilarious. All of a sudden Ferrari know what they're doing. But in the other thread Ferrari is "stabbing in the dark" and has a terrible engineering team. 

 

It's a very relevant question though, since it turned out Chris Dyer was so bad that he had to be removed entirely from the race team and given a desk job. 

 

I agree though. I don't expect this to be a major issue, and I think it is incumbent upon Kimi to communicate his wishes clearly and let his engineer help him do his thing. 

Edited by boldhakka, 18 December 2013 - 04:38.

[Gorma]

It's not a bad thing that Kimi's new race engineer has a history as a chassis engineer especially in this situation when cars change massively and they need to find a setup that suits. 

[aray]

Ferrari is  losing a race engineer;so someone needs to be promoted...Kimi is also starting anew in Ferrari..so it is logical that the new guy will have to handle Kimi....there is no other way unless you are advocating Stella to be transferred for Kimi or James Allison taking a demotion.....

Edited by aray, 18 December 2013 - 05:11.

[priestlysabbath]

Kimi back to work.

 

 

Scuderia Ferrari ‏@InsideFerrari11h

#WelcomeHomeKimi - http://bit.ly/18OOAkW  pic.twitter.com/51hvRCut2W

Edited by priestlysabbath, 18 December 2013 - 05:42.

[FirstWatt]

My concerns are that Stella and Alonso are very much like in autopilot after so many years, they know each other and how they need/want to work, what the driver needs as far as set up, etc. etc.

Why is this a concern? Isn't it good to have at least part of the organization running smoothly?

[...]and this new race engineer has never been in the position, he has zero experience, we don't even know if he knows how to read a race. [...]

The race engineer isn't alone to "read the race", au contraire. There are many guys in the back office in charge of this, and they'll support him anyway. Race engineers are way too busy to read the race thoroughly. During a race, his task is to be the person which gives information to Kimi in an appropriate way ;-) and who asks and receives information from him.

[...]
What do you all think about it?

The least of all concerns, methinks.

There are others, first of all the competitivity of the car.
Ferrari's track side operations and their personell decisions related to this have been quite OK in the last years.

[wift]

Some people are saying it's not a big deal? Well that's just stupid. The race engineer is the racing driver’s right hand man and about as close as you can get to being a Formula 1 driver without a steering wheel in your hands. It's pretty damn important that the collaboration is as smooth as possible. In F1 small margins can make the biggest of difference. 

 

It's a big risk to put a rookie in this position. It may work out, it may not... Time will tell. I'm sure that Ferrari thinks that he is a capable man for the job, but you never know how someone handles pressure before they are put in the spot. 

 

Another factor to consider in this case is that all the changes that are coming for the upcoming season make it much more of a challenge. Kimi has a new team to get used to, a new car with a totally different engine, and the guy who is pulling the strings is a rookie he does not know from before. Does anyone see a potential disaster with this? Particularly when Kimi is so meticulous with how he wants his car to be. As you all know, Kimi is one of the fastest drivers when the car is to his liking, but when it's not he can be slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter...   

[LuckyStrike1]

It's brilliant. 

 

Now we all have an excuse if the mighty Kimi is not as fast or good as Alonso, and if he is we have another strength to add to the Legend of the Kimi. 

[as65p]

Well people who think they are smart regularly argue that Ferrari gave their freshly signed star driver a very poor engineering team and infrastructure for the last 4 years, claiming that it put Alonso under a huge handicap. So why not a race engineer?

But don't worry you all. Fernando called his race engineering/strategy team "geniuses", so it's all good.

One issues is about the teams overall shortcomings, the other issue is about people "being afraid" Ferrari putting one of their drivers "under a huge handicap".

 

Surely an innocent mistake on your part how this difference escaped you, hm?

[aray]

Some people are saying it's not a big deal? Well that's just stupid. The race engineer is the racing driver’s right hand man and about as close as you can get to being a Formula 1 driver without a steering wheel in your hands. It's pretty damn important that the collaboration is as smooth as possible. In F1 small margins can make the biggest of difference. 

 

It's a big risk to put a rookie in this position. It may work out, it may not... Time will tell. I'm sure that Ferrari thinks that he is a capable man for the job, but you never know how someone handles pressure before they are put in the spot. 

 

Another factor to consider in this case is that all the changes that are coming for the upcoming season make it much more of a challenge. Kimi has a new team to get used to, a new car with a totally different engine, and the guy who is pulling the strings is a rookie he does not know from before. Does anyone see a potential disaster with this? Particularly when Kimi is so meticulous with how he wants his car to be. As you all know, Kimi is one of the fastest drivers when the car is to his liking, but when it's not he can be slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter...   

so what is your solution...?

[Cyanide]

It will be the same case as with Hamilton and Mercedes. 

 

It will take him a few races to adjust to the environment until he can be fully confident with the equipment. But Kimi adapts insanely fast so I don't expect it to be a concern. 

[as65p]

so what is your solution...?

Isn't it obvious? Assign Stella to Kimi and let Alonso run without a race engineer. Tweak his ear a bit just to be sure...

[boldhakka]

One issues is about the teams overall shortcomings, the other issue is about people "being afraid" Ferrari putting one of their drivers "under a huge handicap".

Is it not OK for someone to "be afraid" that the new driver will be exposed to one aspect of the team's "overall shortcomings"?

Edited by boldhakka, 18 December 2013 - 08:38.

[FirstWatt]

[....]Particularly when Kimi is so meticulous with how he wants his car to be. As you all know, Kimi is one of the fastest drivers when the car is to his liking, but when it's not he can be slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter[...]

Quite strange, why a chassis engineer, working since 2005 with Ferrari and the last years on Alonso's car at the tracks shouldn't be able to convert Kimi's preferences into something tangible.
 

This is a hilarious thread.

[boldhakka]

so what is your solution...?

Why should there be a solution, and why is he responsible for coming up with it?

It may be a simple resource constraint that all parties have to live with. It's totally OK to air the concern though.

[JeePee]

I don't see any problems with this really. Kimi probably knows the guy still from his previous stint and he would also had something to say in this decision. I heard Spagnolo likes a strong alcoholic drink, so he and Kimi will get along pretty well I guess 

 

Some people make it sound like he's a rookie without any knowledge. I'm sure the guy knows what he's doing. Just like Kimi.

[as65p]

Is it not OK for someone to "be afraid" that the new driver will be exposed to one aspect of the team's "overall shortcomings"?

Trackside operation is where Ferrari doesn't have any noticeable shortcomings in recent years, they are as good as anyone in that regard.

 

But yeah, maybe it's cruel to make fun of people "being afraid", so worry along if you must.

[seahawk]

Would it not be fair to assign Stella to Kimi?

[Radion]

Would it not be fair to assign Stella to Kimi?

But wouldn't it be unfair to alonso? They have been working together now for three years, why changing a working system?

[kosmos]

Would it not be fair to assign Stella to Kimi?

 

Stella and Alonso are like bread and butter, I doubt Stella want to be Kimi engenieer (nothing against Kimi), you don't build a personal and professional relationship for 4 years for nothing.

[RedF1]

New Race engineer for Kimi.... ?

Wow...  how many race engineers does Ferrari have to choose from?

Are you surprised they have to appoint a new one, if there is only Stella left?

[JeePee]

Spagnolo:

 

Spoiler

 

I say: Perfect match.

Edited by JeePee, 18 December 2013 - 09:49.

[boldhakka]

Trackside operation is where Ferrari doesn't have any noticeable shortcomings in recent years, they are as good as anyone in that regard.

Good. That would have been a fine response to the original poster. Keep it up.

But yeah, maybe it's cruel to make fun of people "being afraid", so worry along if you must.

I'm not worried. I'm just defending the original poster's freedom to worry without being made fun of. After all, if he dropped in to the car thread one wouldn't blame him for thinking that the entire Ferrari engineering team are muppets.

Edited by boldhakka, 18 December 2013 - 10:07.

[Anderis]

Smedly is on a new adventure with Williams.  Still with Massa.

But he is not really following Massa. He will not be a race engineer at Williams and he was rumoured to join them a long before Massa started to appear as a serious possibility for Williams.

[FirstWatt]

[....] I'm just defending the original poster's freedom to worry without being made fun of. [...]

 
Well...it's just a bit a strange worry...

[...]My concerns are that Stella and Alonso are very much like in autopilot after so many years, they know each other and how they need/want to work, what the driver needs as far as set up, etc. etc.

Though, looking at the name "Spagnolo" which means "Spanish", might sound like a threat to some ;-)

Edited by FirstWatt, 18 December 2013 - 10:11.

[boldhakka]

Well...it's just a bit a strange worry...

Though, looking at the name "Spagnolo" which means "Spanish", might sound like a threat to some ;-)

Yeah, I agree it's a fan post by someone who wants to see Kimi beat Fred (or not get beaten too badly). But that's no reason to mock him. It's still a legitimate concern. In other words don't shoot the messenger.

On topic:
Kimi did go out of his way to get Slade at Lotus. So he is sensitive to this matter. Also Dyer, who was Kimi's last race engineer at Ferrari, was deemed unfit to remain with the race engineering team. So you can't blame fans for being worried.

I think it's mostly Kimi's responsibility to get the setup to his liking. And as As65p has, after putting up a fight, rightly pointed out that Ferrari have generally done well with trackside engineering these last couple of years, there's not much reason to be concerned.

Edited by boldhakka, 18 December 2013 - 10:31.

[as65p]

Good. That would have been a fine response to the original poster. Keep it up.

 

It's a fine response however you put it. Just admit it.

 

I'm not worried. I'm just defending the original poster's freedom to worry without being made fun of. After all, if he dropped in to the car thread one wouldn't blame him for thinking that the entire Ferrari engineering team are muppets.

 

 

Wow. No less, eh? 

[boldhakka]

It's a fine response however you put it. Just admit it.

Well, yes. Happy to. I agree with it too. Just try to get em right the first time, so I don't have to take you to task again.

[santababy]

Looks like Antonio & Kimi will be fine.
Thanks JeePee.

[Fontainebleau]

"slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through peanut butter...  "

OT, but I loved the metaphor