119 replies to this topic

[boldhakka]

I still don't see any discrepancies in highlighting Red Bulls engineering superiority and disregarding premature concerns about a choice of race engineer for a driver by Ferrari.

 

 If only you had used those words. Instead you chose to frame it as multiple seasoned Ferrari engineers "stabbing in the dark" and chose to "make fun of" (your words) the original poster of this thread for being concerned about one measly race engineer who has never been in this role before. Totally hypocritical. 

 

Anyway, you've back-pedalled enough. You win, congratulations. 

[FirstWatt]

You have a remarkable and sophisticated method of interpreting posts of members in a way that the poster himself has a hard time to follow your reasoning.

 

Not that I have any troubles with that, but let me ask, are you somehow professionally ivolved with politics or law?

[hello86]

After reading Monte´s comments it´s pretty clear that Ferrari got Kimi as the support driver for Romain. 

[as65p]

 If only you had used those words. Instead you chose to frame it as multiple seasoned Ferrari engineers "stabbing in the dark" and chose to "make fun of" (your words) the original poster of this thread for being concerned about one measly race engineer who has never been in this role before. Totally hypocritical. 

 

Anyway, you've back-pedalled enough. You win, congratulations. 

 

That's the 2nd time during the last weeks you're on a mission to turn my words into something they aren't. It's also the 2nd time your mission fails but nonetheless you make a song and dance about is as if  you achieved something.

 

I mean, what's the whole fuss really about and why are you hellbound to bore everyone to death with that kind of pointless polemics?

[santababy]

After reading Monte´s comments it´s pretty clear that Ferrari got Kimi as the support driver for Romain. 

You mean Alonso?

[boldhakka]

That's the 2nd time during the last weeks you're on a mission to turn my words into something they aren't. It's also the 2nd time your mission fails but nonetheless you make a song and dance about is as if  you achieved something.

 

You went from hyperbole (Ferrari engineers "stabbing in the dark")[1] , to a more reasonable position ("it's just words", "Red Bulls engineering superiority")[2]

 

You went from openly mocking someone ("make fun of")[3] , to a position where you explained yourself and contributed to the thread ("Trackside operation is where Ferrari doesn't have any noticeable shortcomings in recent years")[4]

 

All the quoted parts [1,2,3,4] above are your words. Those [2,4] are significant changes from your earlier stances [1,3] to the outside world, even if you don't see it. 

 

Words matter. 

Edited by boldhakka, 20 December 2013 - 12:40.

[hello86]

You mean Alonso?

 

ooopsie! yeah 

[wrcva]

it is hard to read politicians like LdM as they change their speech according to the audience.   Who knows what is in his mind relative to what were his discussions with Kimi about his new role but it is hard to see Kimi agreeing to sign as a #2.    Maybe they told him to ignore the chatter they may have to engage in for making politically correct statements in public stroking Fred's ego here and there, but chances are Kimi will not give a s#it either way.  That said, there is no way he can overcome any organizational effort to make sure he stays behind Fred regardless of how hard he may try.   What is next?  Bring Shumi back as the development driver?   If LdM's statements are true, this will be such a turn off...  

[jedioriginal]

it is hard to read politicians like LdM as they change their speech according to the audience. Who knows what is in his mind relative to what were his discussions with Kimi about his new role but it is hard to see Kimi agreeing to sign as a #2. Maybe they told him to ignore the chatter they may have to engage in for making politically correct statements in public stroking Fred's ego here and there, but chances are Kimi will not give a s#it either way. That said, there is no way he can overcome any organizational effort to make sure he stays behind Fred regardless of how hard he may try. What is next? Bring Shumi back as the development driver? If LdM's statements are true, this will be such a turn off...

Like i said before,it does not mean anything what Kimis contract says. If they want him to be a number two to support Alonso,there is like a million different ways to make it so without braking any contracts.Ääh,who knows what he means but i just dont know why Monty would say these things if he doesnt mean it...?

 

 

There is a new thread for this discussion.Let´s continue there.   http://forums.autosp...two-at-ferrari/

Edited by jedioriginal, 20 December 2013 - 14:17.

[as65p]

You went from hyperbole (Ferrari engineers "stabbing in the dark")[1] , to a more reasonable position ("it's just words", "Red Bulls engineering superiority")[2]

 

You went from openly mocking someone ("make fun of")[3] , to a position where you explained yourself and contributed to the thread ("Trackside operation is where Ferrari doesn't have any noticeable shortcomings in recent years")[4]

 

All the quoted parts [1,2,3,4] above are your words. Those [2,4] are significant changes from your earlier stances [1,3] to the outside world, even if you don't see it. 

 

Words matter. 

 

I said them all and I stand by them all. I "went" nowhere in between, as much as you might wish. But yeah, I'm capable of expressing the same idea with a number of differing phrases, hey-ho.

 

Still we aren't one inch closer as to why this objective non-issue is such a big issue for you, but maybe that's a secret?

[SpaMaster]

I'll be pretty damn happy if Kimi is on Alonso's pace, actually.  Not only would that mean Kimi is in good form, but it would also be great for Ferrari.

 

I don't have a personal stake in this like you, man. 

Don't evade the point of discussion. If Kimi matches Alonso's pace during their Ferrari stint, what would that say about your continuous contention that Kimi is a notch below the top-tier drivers and is not as good as Alonso? Just like you called others' statements as possible excuses that would come up later, I am questioning you the other way on your contention of Kimi as a driver. You may be happy, but you may be wrong in your past judgement. If you are going to brand others' statements as a form of future excuse, you should also be prepared to accept you were wrong if it happens the other way around.

 

[Skinnyguy]

Now seriously, I don´t like what LdM said but don´t think it will translate in anything in the races, and that´s what counts. I bet Lewis was also supposed to help Alonso in 2007. Kimi will have to do the same.

[boldhakka]

I'm capable of expressing the same idea with a number of differing phrases,

Awesome. Please pick a phrasing that doesn't mock people, and one that attempts to add something to the thread in good faith. It's just common courtesy.

Edited by boldhakka, 20 December 2013 - 16:28.

[SophieB]

Please get back on topic here. You can discuss Luca di Montezemolo's latest remarks in the thread about it here: http://forums.autosp...n/#entry6535568

Some posts moved to the new thread.

[as65p]

Please pick a phrasing that doesn't mock people, and one that attempts to add something to the thread in good faith. It's just common courtesy.

 

From all I read from you, you neither got the wisdom nor, more importantly, any authorithy to advise other posters what to write and how. Sorry if that's news to you, but it had to be said.

 

Happy to discuss racing with you again when you feel like it, but for this wasted argument, I'm out now.

[boldhakka]

From all I read from you, you neither got the wisdom nor, more importantly, any authorithy to advise other posters what to write and how. Sorry if that's news to you, but it had to be said.

Happy to discuss racing with you again when you feel like it, but for this wasted argument, I'm out now.

But of course. It was by way of explanation since you asked why I was taking you to task. Be courteous and post in good faith and that won't happen.

If you can't, please don't whine about it if someone calls you on it and forces you to backpedal to a more reasonable phrasing. Like you just did, twice.

Edited by boldhakka, 20 December 2013 - 16:33.

[as65p]

Okay, to bring this back on topic, I still find it laughable to worry about something nobody in here has nearly enough knowledge to judge (i.e. the quality of individual trackside engineers) nor anybody is able to present a viable alternative to.

 

For all we know, Spagnolo can be a brilliant choice, someone who long deserves to get promoted. Even if he's somewhat less than utterly brilliant, it's still most likely that he's the best choice available - unless people think Ferrari is out to screw KR on purpose which isn't really worth a serious thought.

 

It's the norm for drivers to get new race engineers when changing teams, so nothing out of the ordinary to see here. If Raikönnen himself felt (which I don't believe) the need to have a specific race engineer he should have written it in his contract.

 

So, given everyones lack of inside knowledge about the subject, what to say but having a bit of fun with over-anxious concerns based on nothing?

[ZZei]

So apparently Raikkonen wanted Stella as his race engineer bit LDM said alonso wants him too. Hardly surprising as they have both worked with him and alonso has been working with him the past years. LDM said that raikkonen was satisfied with Spagnolo. How true that is we'll never know.

[jedioriginal]

So apparently Raikkonen wanted Stella as his race engineer bit LDM said alonso wants him too. Hardly surprising as they have both worked with him and alonso has been working with him the past years. LDM said that raikkonen was satisfied with Spagnolo. How true that is we'll never know.

As you said,no suprice.Of course Alonso gets Stella. Kimi is the new guy and alonso has been working with him past years. No problem here.

I am very happy that Kimi gets the new hungry guy

[swerved]

I'm just happy that for the first time in a couple of years we'll get to see Kimi having pit stops that dont last long enough for him to grow a beard.