15 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

So I was going through the thread about kimi's RE for 2014 and it occurred to me how much fellow forumers know about race engineers (at least the Kimi and Alonso fans!)so I was wondering if its possible to rate them like we rate the drivers they work for.Here is a list of the 2013 class:




Paul Davison- car 22 – MAX CHILTON



Michael Harre-car 21 – JULES BIANCHI



Juan Pablo Ramirez-car 20 – GIEDO VAN DER GARDE



Tim Wright- car 19 – CHARLES PIC



Marco Matassa-car 18 – DANIEL RICCIARDO



Phil Charles-car 18 – JEAN-ERIC VERGNE



Rob Smedley-car 4 – FELIPE MASSA



Andrea Stella-car 3 – FERNANDO ALONSO



Simon Rennie-car 2 – MARK WEBBER



Guillaume Rocquelin-car 1 – SEBASTIEN VETTEL



Peter Bonnington-car 10 – LEWIS HAMILTON



Tony Ross-car 9 – NICO ROSBERG



Ayao Komatsu-car 8 – ROMAIN GROSJEAN



Mark Slade-car 7 – KIMI RAIKONNEN



Andy Latham-car 6 – SERGIO PEREZ



Dave Robson-car 5 – JENSON BUTTON



Jonathan Eddolls-car 16 – VALTTERI BOTTAS



Andrew Murdoch-car 15 – PASTOR MALDONADO



Brad Joyce-car 14 – ADRIAN SUTIL





Gianpiero Lambiase-car 13 – PAUL DI RESTA




Francesco Nenci-car 12 – ESTEBAN GUTIERREZ



Marco Schupbach-car 11 – NICO HULKENBERG






For those who don't know,there is a website called F1 fanatic that releases a transcript of all the radio messages in qualifying and the race and its a brilliant insight into the relationships between RE's and drivers.I think it can be a great base for discussion here.




Its pretty difficult to rate all the engineers because if you are a Hamilton fan you wont be really paying much attention to Jules Bianchi radio will you?so you can rate your favorite drivers RE and his immediate competitors only.





I will start:






Guillaume Rocquelin-car 1 – SEBASTIEN VETTEL-Accuse me of bias,but if Seb has been sublime,Rocky has been out of this world this year.He has made some awesome decisions in qualifying and during the race.The wet weather qualys this year has had Seb on pole even when the mercs were obviously faster in at the time.Another race he earned his bacon was Germany,guiding Seb home through intermediate KERS problems,tyre degradation and a fast Lotus behind him.Japan was also a brilliant display of strategic thinking from him,sitting back and being patient and waiting to pounce when RoGro was suffering was genius in its self.Other honorable mentions are thinking fast and stealing P2 when Mercedes were sleeping on the job in Monaco and
he finally managed to curb Seb's love of fastest lap and his only blip was Malasyia where he could have come down a bit harder on his driver and China,they should have run in Q3.IMO has been the number one RE in F1 this year.







Andrea Stella-car 3 – FERNANDO ALONSO-An unsung hero last year in some of Alonso's brilliant dives,this year he seems to have suffered from motivation like his driver and has lost some of his assertiveness.case in point is Malaysia,IMO he should have taken charge of the situation and called Alonso in knowing very well anything can happen with a damaged wing.People like to blame Alonso but for me that was Stella's fault.Even Bahrain he should have been more strict with Alonso not to use his DRS flap.Monza qualifying was a farce,the towing thing wasn't working in free practice,it was never going to work in qualifying,anther massive fail from him and his team.A flatish season compared to the high standards he set last year.





Peter Bonnington-car 10 – LEWIS HAMILTON and Tony Ross-car 9 – NICO ROSBERG-The Mercedes engineers seem IMO,still finding their feet with their drivers and teams which is surprising.In some transcripts,you hear Bonnington telling Lewis he has to consult some other team member on some procedure.Nobody is perfect but I have never heard Rocky or Simon Renne saying 'let me consult on some procedure.'Tony Ross also screwed up badly in races Nico has been knocked out of Q3 through no fault of his own.All in all,a decent season from the pair,they won three races.






Over to you,I will be updating as I reread through the trancripts and find something interesting.

[Jon83]

This is impossible for a fan to do.

[noikeee]

I know as much about these guys as I do about curling or the art of abstract paintings.

 

By the way talking on the radio is only a part of their job, most of the work will be done behind the scenes and communicating with the driver is only a fraction of the job.

[SonnyViceR]

The only race engineers I know more of than... well, absolutely nothing, are Leena Gade and Howden Haynes. Firstly as they get so much screen time and secondly they were the real stars of Truth in 24 & Truth in 24 II and you got plenty of inside of these people.

 

But it is impossible to judge race engineer's work from distance, especially if you only take account the very minor part of it that is the radio communication... it's so much more.

[jjcale]

Smedley and Rocky are the most entertaining 

 

And Latham has managed to lose two drivers in two years

[grichka]

Most of those engineers are completely anonymous as their drivers are not front runners. Rocky-Vettel are most entertaining to me, it's clear that they are great friends, while Webber-Rennie relationship seemed so cold...

[Jon83]

I find the Rocky - Vettel thing boring to listen to but FOM continue to broadcast the messages.

 

'Box, box, box, torque map one and box, torque one and box'

 

'Careful Sebastian'

 

I did Andrea Stella's message to Alonso in India 2012 -  'when he is in the DRS zone he has the plank on the ground, sparkling like 'ell'

 

But none of this has any relevance to the thread, of course.

[ArkZ]

I didn't pay much attention to others but Ferraris RE have build not only great communication for racing events with their drivers but also personal relationship Massa-Smedley, Alonso-Stella are friends, you can see such a things like when Alonso run into Stella arms after the win, of when Stella cried after Malaysia 2012, Smedley radio communications mainly in 2007-2008. For me both are top re.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uloB-MGAjR8

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0KA4CPcfXZg

Edited by ArkZ, 19 December 2013 - 13:47.

[JohnDoe]

Most of those engineers are completely anonymous as their drivers are not front runners.

 

Agreed. Except for the front runners most of the radio transmissions don't get broadcasted to the extent they are almost non-existent.

[BillBald]

Peter Bonnington-car 10 – LEWIS HAMILTON and Tony Ross-car 9 – NICO ROSBERG-The Mercedes engineers seem IMO,still finding their feet with their drivers and teams which is surprising.In some transcripts,you hear Bonnington telling Lewis he has to consult some other team member on some procedure.Nobody is perfect but I have never heard Rocky or Simon Renne saying 'let me consult on some procedure.'Tony Ross also screwed up badly in races Nico has been knocked out of Q3 through no fault of his own.All in all,a decent season from the pair,they won three races.






 

 

 

Peter Bonnington can't be that bad - Schumi tried at least a couple of different engineers before he settled on him.

 

The fact is, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and how much of the strategy decisions are in the hands of the RE, it very possibly varies from one team to another.

 

Checo commented that at McLaren, strategy was worked out entirely between him and his RE, which was not what he was used to. But for all we know, the often inspired decisions made for Seb were all made by Adrian Newey.

[PayasYouRace]

It's pretty hard to rate race engineers from our perspective. We mainly just hear their in-race radio communication with the drivers. We don't get a sense for how well they can actually engineer a car, solving set up problems and such because it all goes on in private, and that's arguably the most important part of their jobs. They don't have sole responsibilty for race strategy either.

[rodlamas]

Sergio Perez engineer for this year wasn't Andy Latham, it was Mark Temple.

[Hans V]

Hard to judge as their responsibilities might vary from team to team. The one to get the least out of his driver and the equipment at their disposal must be Rob Smedley. The patronising way he speaks to his driver is very annoying to listen to and I can't understand why Massa tolerates that. Massa should BTW be on a race to race contract. He looked very good from June, when he was told his Ferrari-deal would not be renewed until he signed for Williams, after which he fell back into his 7-8th postion comfort-zone.

[g1n]

Considering we know next to nothing about them....

[zanquis]

Well I dunno how you wanna rate engineers, as it is also importent to see who they work with, I have seen Pic constantly getting advice from his engineer about where he is losing time compared to van der Garde, but I doubt telling Kimi anything like that would be appreciated. 

I am sorry there is just too much that makes it impossible to really rate it.

[sneaker91]

Dunno about their tech nous to comment but for entertainment Smedley wins hands down.
If I was a driver and had a choice I would pick him. Confident and no bs. Thanks for the tip about where to get transcripts from kenkip

Edited by sneaker91, 19 December 2013 - 23:03.