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Luca di Montezemolo's Christmas speech re: Kimi Raikkonen


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#101 Molo19

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:53

While the Sport Bild reporter may have exaggerated Monte's words, with the best of intentions can I not interpret them as confirmation of equal status. Kimi seems to be something of a number one-and-a-half driver.

 

Kimi's contract undoubtedly stipulates that Ferrari can't impose a number two role on him outright - not before he is out of the title fight, anyway - but they can probably still favour Alonso indirectly. Monte's words about Kimi having to take points off Alonso's rivals sound precisely like your classic number two driver job description - and can very quickly become a self-fulfilling prophecy, I fear.

 

Alonso seems to have the team's psychological support. Let's see if Kimi has that mental strenght he is famous for.


Edited by Molo19, 21 December 2013 - 10:24.


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#102 FenderJaguar

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:55

to sum it up. probably Luca didn't say that the reporter wanted him to say and you are all a bunch of kids overreacting. No one knows what next year will bring and if Kimi is up to it and is leading he won't be a number 2.

 

/ not a nervous Kimi fan, and what will be will be, no problemo



#103 Jvr

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 22:55

Now having read the SportBild article, this all is just a storm in a teacup resulted in by the (mis)interpretation of two Bild reporters. Nobody else present other than them have understood Luca's words to mean Kimi is number two.

To be more precise, Luca saying Kimi is on the latter half of his career (true as well is Alonso) and he is capable of taking points of competitors of Alonso is concluded to be saying Kimi is number two in Ferrari?

#104 AlexS

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:03

What Monte said in full 

 

Did he say it in English? If not what matters is what he said in Italian.



#105 Niro

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:03

You think so? Were you at the event and heard what Luca said? Italian media does not seem to have got the message of LdM announcing Kimi being number second at all...

 

Are you for real?

This is the friggin Ferrari BOSS who's saying Kimi is there to help Alonso!
Just laughable to twist the words...it's clear as crystal to anyone with half a brain what he meant.

And this after all the hype...there goes the season and the "exciting duel" we all have been waiting for...ha ha ha!

Priceless. Good luck, Kimi! :wave:



#106 Jvr

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:08

Are you for real?
This is the friggin Ferrari BOSS who's saying Kimi is there to help Alonso!
Just laughable to twist the words...it's clear as crystal to anyone with half a brain what he meant.
And this after all the hype...there goes the season and the "exciting duel" we all have been waiting for...ha ha ha!
Priceless. Good luck, Kimi! :wave:


Yes, I am. You do not seem to. Please show me the quote where Luca said Kimi is number two.

#107 kimister

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:08

Did he say it in English? If not what matters is what he said in Italian.

 

Not everybody knows italian and it would be pointless to post what he said in the original language in an english forum, so we need to trust on autosport for the translation.



#108 Jvr

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:26

Not everybody knows italian and it would be pointless to post what he said in the original language in an english forum, so we need to trust on autosport for the translation.


Well you can e.g. read Benson's take of the event and he does not seem to get the impression of Kimi being a support driver.

http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/25465687

#109 AlexS

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:30

 

Not everybody knows italian and it would be pointless to post what he said in the original language in an english forum, so we need to trust on autosport for the translation.

 

I disagree, i don't trust any journalist. Several people know Italian and can translate. 



#110 Dunc

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:50

I repeat that I am a Kimi fan and it doesn't make me happy to say this but if you judge Kimi purely on performance he isn't much more than a solid numbertwo these days. In his last three seasons he has won one grand prix in each year. The season before these he won...two. Compare that with the averages of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Button and Webber and see which driver he's closest too. It's not a perfect comparison but it's clear that he's just not the threat he was anymore. LDM may not have stated in Kimi's contract that he's the no two but to me it looks like he signed him because he's looked at his performances and thinks he'll finish in the points regularly, get the odd win but not be a realistic rival to Alonso. I could look foolish this time in 2014 for saying this but I think I'm being a realist fanboy rather than idealistic fanboy.

#111 Niro

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:52

Yes, I am. You do not seem to. Please show me the quote where Luca said Kimi is number two.

Let me put it this way:

You may not have a clue, but for the rest of the world it's pretty obvious.

Kimi is there to assist Alonso. That is exactly what LdM said, you see.
You can go on twisting the words, but I'm afraid it's all in vain...

Good for Alonso though, I'm a big fan of his! :up:



#112 Niro

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:55

I repeat that I am a Kimi fan

 

Mmkay.



#113 swerved

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 23:56

Are you for real?

This is the friggin Ferrari BOSS who's saying Kimi is there to help Alonso!
Just laughable to twist the words...it's clear as crystal to anyone with half a brain what he meant.

And this after all the hype...there goes the season and the "exciting duel" we all have been waiting for...ha ha ha!

Priceless. Good luck, Kimi! :wave:

 

 

Thanks, that explains your clarity  :up:



#114 Jvr

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:00

Let me put it this way:
You may not have a clue, but for the rest of the world it's pretty obvious.
Kimi is there to assist Alonso. That is exactly what LdM said, you see.
You can go on twisting the words, but I'm afraid it's all in vain...
Good for Alonso though, I'm a big fan of his! :up:

There is nothing wrong of you being a fan of Alonso, but it is not right to claim something that has not been said. Actually instead of telling the world that Kimi is there to assist Alonso, LdM was reprimanding Alonso of not being a team player and causing Ferrari some trouble in his comments, if you happened to miss it...

Edited by Jvr, 21 December 2013 - 00:08.


#115 DrF

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 00:26

Oh lord. Handbags at Dawn and it's still 2013.

#116 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:19

Räikkönen is not there to assist Alonso even if LdM directly said so.

 

Btw:

 

- If the car is not (or by far) not good enough, then it won't matter who is infront of who (as Prost rightly mentioned somewhere a few weeks ago).

 

- If the car is by far the best one, then everything will be supergreat maybe up until the let's say second- or third-last race of the season where the first slight cracks could be visible (remember the start in estoril88).

 

- If the car is as good as another team like RedBull (with a really clear number-one driver), then a probability of tears and screaming and a lost driver's championship at Ferrari will be very high (like 1981 at Williams or 1986 at Williams or 2007 at McLaren) and someone else's name will be written 5ettel.

 

- If the car is as good as another team like Mercedes (with also no clear number-one driver), then - if bad luck is at an equal amount among those drivers - it will be a very very verrrry marvelous season with four drivers who maybe are also the four best ones in F1 right now [please calm down everybody: I only said "maybe the four best"...].



#117 f1RacingForever

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:36

Are you for real?

This is the friggin Ferrari BOSS who's saying Kimi is there to help Alonso!
Just laughable to twist the words...it's clear as crystal to anyone with half a brain what he meant.

And this after all the hype...there goes the season and the "exciting duel" we all have been waiting for...ha ha ha!

Priceless. Good luck, Kimi! :wave:

You're just making assumptions. Please wait until the season starts and we see how it unfold before condemning the season and the team to death. I think he just doesn't expect Kimi to be able to challenge kimi. Nothing more. I don't expect the team to favor one driver over another if/until it makes sense to do so. I'm sure Kimi has something written in his contract to protect against that very situation.



#118 PoleMan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 02:42

After all the posts, it"s STILL NOT COMPLETELY CLEAR what Luca said.  :D

 

I don't think Luca speaks German (Never heard him, anyway), so his answer was likely in Italian or English. Would probably help a bit if we knew.

 

But even if LdM says what some are so sure he does -- that Kimi is there to take points off Alonso's opponents and to help Fernando win the WDC -- he won't be out on the race track where those determinations are made. No matter what anyone, including Luca, says, it will be Kimi and Alonso, and how they adjust to the new rules, set up their cars, manage the fuel limitations, have good or bad luck, who will determine which one is ahead. LdM will just have to watch like the rest of us. Stefano has already stated that Kimi was not happy when Ferrari sent him packing to make room for Alonso, and he has come back to the Scuderia with something to prove. By slighting Kimi (IF that's what he did?), his intent is more likely to stir the coals to keep them hot -- meaning he wants to keep fresh in Kimi's mind one of the main reasons he returned -- to BEAT Alonso and prove Luca's first decision in 2009, wrong. LdM does like to fan the flames for his own purposes, and pissing off the IceMan will only strengthen Kimi's determination...and likely Fernando's, too. In the end, Ferrari win either way -- as long as they build a car fast enough. Nobody should be getting any grey hairs over this. They'll both get an equal chance to prove who's superior or they'd NEVER hear the end of it from the fans and press of their home country's!   ;)  

 

So let's all just stay calm. If you really want something to be aggravated about, think of all the holiday shopping you still have to do!  :p   



#119 aray

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:35

personally i believe we should learn to thoroughly ignore what LDM says...

 

(despite the fact that i am Alonso supporter and believe him to be the best)



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#120 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:35

Help is a bit of a strong word.

 

I'd translate as follows: Kimi's presence will be important, so that Fernando will not be left alone in his fight for the top place and important points.

 

In other words: Massa wasn't at the front, and Räikkönen is expected to be right up there with Fernando.

I think this clarification is very crucial. Help vs so that. TC3000 also said the same thing in the first page. Now reading the full statement from Autosport, it looks like is it much ado about nothing. If one wants to see a few things that are a bit disparaging towards Kimi, similar things on Alonso could also be interpreted from those statements. LdM loosemouths now and then. There is nothing much here.

 



#121 jedioriginal

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:24

I don't think Autosport would publish news that is likely to give rise to misunderstandings due to false translation, so it is true probably.

Well to be honest Autosport isnt what it used to be. Hell, they even announced Grosjean as a Kimi beater and in a recent listing they rated Grosjean as a better driver

#122 santababy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:26

Well to be honest Autosport isnt what it used to be. Hell, they even announced Grosjean as a Kimi beater and in a recent listing they rated Grosjean as a better driver


Totally agree regarding its isn't what it used to be.
This year some of their articles have been aweful journalism very unexpected.

#123 Cyanide

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 08:12

I doubt Kimi signed up for any of this. Unless Alonso will have higher chances to win the WDC, he will just focus on himself and getting as many points as possible. If the time comes that he's out of the WDC fight, he'll help.  



#124 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:25

I doubt Kimi signed up for any of this. Unless Alonso will have higher chances to win the WDC, he will just focus on himself and getting as many points as possible. If the time comes that he's out of the WDC fight, he'll help.


Robertson already long time ago said Kimi is quarenteed a equal status with Fernando in every aspect and he would never sign stupid contracts, he also mentioned Kimi has even better deal than on his last Ferrari visit. Kimi will help for sure if he is out of the fight, he did it with Massa already.

#125 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:40

Expensive number two driver

#126 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:52

Expensive number two driver


Yet he will bring more money to the team than he will be paid :)

#127 Balnazzard

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:00

Let me put it this way:

You may not have a clue, but for the rest of the world it's pretty obvious.

Kimi is there to assist Alonso. That is exactly what LdM said, you see.
You can go on twisting the words, but I'm afraid it's all in vain...

Good for Alonso though, I'm a big fan of his! :up:

 

Well if you TRULY believe that Kimi is going to start to play number-2 role right from the beginning, then you clearly know nothing about him (just like Alonso).... It doesnt matter what Montezemolo says, he is NOT there to order Kimi around and  Kimi is not going to yield one bit to Alonso, not until/If he would be mathematically completely out of WDC...I think many of you Alonso fans truly underestimate what Kimi is capable of and are in for bitter suprise next year, but we shall see soon enough.

 

And yes, I am Kimi fan, so either way, one of us is going to be dissapointed fan next year ;)......or both of us if Ferrari's car/engine would be piece of junk.


Edited by Balnazzard, 21 December 2013 - 12:02.


#128 kimister

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 13:34

A lot of people (mostly Alonso supporters ) will surprise sooo much next year  :p  and at that time I want to see Luca's face closely ... I am not that kind of person making bold predictions, but this time... just let you know that next year will be great fun to watch  :smoking:



#129 santababy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 13:44

Expensive number two driver


Well, Ferrari's choice.

#130 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 13:51

Montoya said he thinks Kimi is taking F1 more seriously now and is very hungry to show it, that's why he went back to Ferrari to beat Fernando...for Alonso it's good thing as well as he has felt too secured according to Montoya, now he must up his game as well.both good for fans JP says.

#131 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 15:32

The quote seems more like a dig at the outgoing Massa.

LdM thinks the FA/KR combo will both be at the front fighting RBR and Merc. Monte gave Kimi a compliment saying he's great on race day.which is what counts.

Seems like he(LdM) needs to keep Fred pumped up. Vettel's 4 year run has turned the wick up on everyone in the red team.

Which is all obvious.Overblown, off season nothing news really.imo.



#132 jedioriginal

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:48

Robertson already long time ago said Kimi is quarenteed a equal status with Fernando in every aspect and he would never sign stupid contracts, he also mentioned Kimi has even better deal than on his last Ferrari visit. Kimi will help for sure if he is out of the fight, he did it with Massa already.

You do realise that id doesn't matter what the contract says,there is like million different ways to make Kimi play the second fiddle,without braking any contracts.

#133 Lone

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:16

You do realise that id doesn't matter what the contract says,there is like million different ways to make Kimi play the second fiddle,without braking any contracts.

True, but I don't believe what LdM said was meant to be understood that Kimi will be number 2.

Although I have to say that if LdM could choose which of his drivers to win the 2014 WDC he would choose Alonso because that would make all his decisions the right ones.

But going for Alonso as an absolute number 1 would be too risky when Ferraris main goal is, or should be atleast, to win any championship considering the drought they have experienced for the last 5 seasons.

Edited by Lone, 21 December 2013 - 18:24.


#134 jedioriginal

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:56

Totally agree regarding its isn't what it used to be.This year some of their articles have been aweful journalism very unexpected.

Sad but true.

#135 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 19:06

Even after reading the full and the correct version of the statements, if some of you are hysterical in interpreting Kimi as number 2, then there is no convincing such people.



#136 Fontainebleau

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 19:21

Robertson already long time ago said Kimi is quarenteed a equal status with Fernando in every aspect and he would never sign stupid contracts, he also mentioned Kimi has even better deal than on his last Ferrari visit. Kimi will help for sure if he is out of the fight, he did it with Massa already.

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?



#137 artista

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 19:41

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?

No, not really. The Robertsons would help Räikkönen every now and then if he asked them, but they weren't his official managers when he signed up with Lotus.

#138 PolarF1

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 20:27

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?

 

 So you would consider them good managers only if they managed to secure him a Red Bull seat and make Vettel play 2 fidle in Kimis comeback year, right ?



#139 swerved

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 20:30

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?

 

They're managers, not clairvoyants.



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#140 wrcva

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 20:34

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?

 

I think a "blunder" will be to end up with no recourse to collect the payment at all.  Once you have a valid contract signed by parties, in good faith, if one side fails to honor it you simply visit the court system to collect in any case.  Lopez simply failed to fulfill his financial obligations as promised despite Kimi giving him -- good faith-- timing slack while the binding contract is still in place.   This could happen to any driver working with a financially irresponsible, or gambling team management.   It is not customary in F1, but if he ever does business with Lopez again he probably will require an escrow account to guarantee the payment.   Sounds like he still is not paid yet. 



#141 Icicle

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 20:38

To me it sounded like more of a buttering to Alonso; rather than announcing Kimi as de facto #2 to Alonso.



#142 Wolfie

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 20:40

Oh well, Italian reporter Andrea Cremonesi from Gazzetta dello Sport cleared this thing up to HS by assuring that at least the Italian media didn't at any point (during the Maranello event) get the impression that LdM would treat KR differently than FA.

 

"LdM told us that he has two experienced drivers who both know that they are firstly and mostly driving for Ferrari, not for themself. If one of them doesn't understand it, then he can go and look for work from some of the world's 3000 teams according to LdM", Cremonesi told HS.



#143 Dunc

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:08

And IMO its just Montezemolo's view about which driver he thinks is stronger and more likely to win the championhip....As long as Kimi gets equal chance, im sure Iceman couldnt care less what Monte thinks.....and really, there is only 1 man that Kimi had trouble with in Ferrari and that was Monte, so his words dont suprise me.


Agreed but I think LDM' assessment will turn out to be correct, unfortunately.

#144 jedioriginal

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:09

Slightly OT, but aren't these the same Robertsons that got Raikkonen a deal in which he joined a team that could not pay his wages? Why do people have them in such high regard, as if they could make no mistakes, after such and obvious blunder?

Robertsons are the greatest managers out there. Lotus deal was probably best deal ever made in history of Formula 1. To get a deal like that to a guy whos reputation was totally destroyed and had been away 2 years from Formula 1.Deal of a century.Kimi is getting his money,sooner or later,that is not a problem.

Edited by jedioriginal, 21 December 2013 - 21:09.


#145 Group B

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:20

Well he won't if they haven't got it to give.



#146 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:01

Robertsons are the greatest managers out there. Lotus deal was probably best deal ever made in history of Formula 1. To get a deal like that to a guy whos reputation was totally destroyed and had been away 2 years from Formula 1.Deal of a century.Kimi is getting his money,sooner or later,that is not a problem.


Agreed on some parts but Not with Kimi's reputation being totally destroyed...Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes,Lotus and Toyota all wanted him so dont know where you came with his reputation being destroyed.

#147 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:03

Well he won't if they haven't got it to give.


Well then he won't but there won't be a Lotus either or any other team based on their team unless they pay for Kimi.

#148 ardbeg

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:38

I am very surprised. Luca could not have been more clear: Kimi is hired to support Alonso.
That itself might not be such a big surprise, but the way he say it, and why he say it, is a mystery. Maybe Luca is just plain stupid.


Edited by ardbeg, 21 December 2013 - 22:40.


#149 bourbon

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:50

Well independent of the interpretations of Luca's speech, Alonso appears to have kept his head on straight:  "I am happy to be able to work with Raikkonen, a driver who has a rare talent and from whom I can learn a lot.  Quote



#150 autosportfan

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 00:04

For f**** sake... We will see how things really are by Monaco!