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Luca di Montezemolo's Christmas speech re: Kimi Raikkonen


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#201 Lone

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 16:55

Nah, Alonso had it rather that Kimi took the the championship than loosing to his team-mate....especially considering how badly damaged Alonso's relationship with the team and Dennis especially was. Besides like some1 already mentioned, Kimi had lapped Hamilton, so it wouldnt have mattered if Alonso had stopped or if Rosberg and Heidfeld had crashed on the last lap.....so basicly next year could be the first time that Alonso might have to help his team-mate, if Kimi would be in championship fight, and Alonso wasnt.


Alonso was happier than Kimi, which shouldn't be too difficult, on the podium. If I remember correctly he was praising Kimi so much that one would have thought they were teammates.

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#202 RealRacing

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 17:45

As a German speaker, the translation from post 4 is accurate. I believe dM's ego is so big that he believes he/Ferrari can afford to commit the huge stupidity of implying, even before Kimi has driven a single lap in a red car, that he'll be a No. 2. These unfortunate comments are, at a minimum, strategically retarded: if Kimi was supposedly hired as an equal, why even mention this (which makes me already suspicious about terms of negotiation), and if he was effectively hired as a No. 2, why not wait till later in the season and see what happens (maybe he beats FA?). In any case, not that I expected more from Ferrari, but this does not sound good for Kimi, especially so early and coming from the top horse at Ferrari... 



#203 SpaMaster

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 17:56

History shows making Alonso uncomfortable in his team is the worse way to try to achive success.

I thought Alonso is the most adaptable driver, the strongest driver and all..!?

 



#204 Fernandinho

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 17:58

This is a non-story. Just like Massa, Raikkonen will be given every opportunity to beat Alonso. Montezemolo simply doesn't think it can happen.



#205 as65p

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 18:01

Or perhaps they signed Kimi, cause 1. he was available and 2. he happens to be the most consistent driver, breaking Schumi's point streak record....

 

 

Well, Red Bull knew all of Kimis merits too and decided to not sign him.



#206 as65p

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 18:04

I thought Alonso is the most adaptable driver, the strongest driver and all..!?

If that's what you think, surely you can see why it's stupid to not make such a driver feel comfortable, can't you? :D



#207 Balnazzard

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 18:16

Well, Red Bull knew all of Kimis merits too and decided to not sign him.

Well PERHAPS because they have their YOUNG-DRIVER-PROGRAM to think about.......Ye sure, Ferrari has their own Driver Academy too, but their only driver (well Perez being former, but not anymore part of Ferrari organization) Jules Bianchi is not ready yet to take seat in Ferrari.


Edited by Balnazzard, 23 December 2013 - 18:16.


#208 jedioriginal

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 18:24

Well, Red Bull knew all of Kimis merits too and decided to not sign him.

You mean Kimi decided to sign with Ferrari while Red Bull thought they are Kimis only choice and they can play hard ball with him to get him sign half free.

#209 as65p

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 18:52

You mean Kimi decided to sign with Ferrari while Red Bull thought they are Kimis only choice and they can play hard ball with him to get him sign half free.

You mean the Red Bull seat was Kimis but to become richer he chose Ferrari?



#210 SpaMaster

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 19:12

If that's what you think, surely you can see why it's stupid to not make such a driver feel comfortable, can't you? :D

No, I can't, why does the most adaptable one need to be made comfortable? It's contradicting. The most adaptable one thrives outside the comfort zone, does not need to be pampered.

 



#211 as65p

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 19:23

No, I can't, why does the most adaptable one need to be made comfortable? It's contradicting. The most adaptable one thrives outside the comfort zone, does not need to be pampered.

 

It's no contradiction at all. Even people who can perform outside their comfort zone perform even better in it. From a teams perspective, if you got a driver with know qualities, as you said you think Alonso has, they would be stupid not to pave the way for him as much as possible, because ultimately it will be for the teams benefit.

 

A contradiction would be to pay an expensive driver and then make life hard for him.



#212 Lone

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 19:41

Well, Red Bull knew all of Kimis merits too and decided to not sign him.

Maybe that's what happened but I remember Boullier saying during the summer that Red Bull were pushing hard to sign Kimi. But more importantly I remember Turrini reporting Domenicali saying that Red Bull is pushing really hard to sign Kimi but that he believes Kimi will sign with another team. And this was all before Ricciardos name was even seriously on the table and before he tested for Red Bull and they started to praise how good he is. And way before that we heard, surprisingly, that Domenicalis two favourite drivers were in fact Alonso and, wait for it, Räikkonen.

Just because Kimi said Red Bull didn't call back to him doesn't mean it actually happened that way. It is after all Kimi we're talking about, not the most talkative person in the world. Also didn't he sign some other deal with Red Bull during that time? Something about them sponsoring his motorcross team.

Maybe they didn't want to sign him or maybe Kimi wanted to drive for another team.

Edited by Lone, 23 December 2013 - 19:44.


#213 discover23

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 19:43

You mean Kimi decided to sign with Ferrari while Red Bull thought they are Kimis only choice and they can play hard ball with him to get him sign half free.

Is that really what happened? Do you have some insight info you want to share?



#214 prty

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:01

You mean Kimi decided to sign with Ferrari while Red Bull thought they are Kimis only choice and they can play hard ball with him to get him sign half free.

 

How is the weather in la-la-land?

 

Is that really what happened? Do you have some insight info you want to share?

 

According to reality:

 

Kimi Raikkonen has no idea where he stands in Red Bull F1 talks

Kimi Raikkonen says Red Bull stopped responding in their 2014 Formula 1 contract negotiations and he has no idea where he stands with the world champion team now.

 

[...]

 

"I had no answer from them," he told reporters in the paddock. "We will see what happens.

"You have to ask them what they will do. I don't know any better than you guys."

"We never heard anything for a while, which is not the ideal situation, but that's how it is."

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109406

 

Yeah, seems like Raikkonen didn't want the seat, and gave them a lesson :lol:

 


Edited by prty, 23 December 2013 - 20:03.


#215 kimister

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:02

Maybe that's what happened but I remember Boullier saying during the summer that Red Bull were pushing hard to sign Kimi. But more importantly I remember Turrini reporting Domenicali saying that Red Bull is pushing really hard to sign Kimi but that he believes Kimi will sign with another team. And this was all before Ricciardos name was even seriously on the table and before he tested for Red Bull and they started to praise how good he is. And way before that we heard, surprisingly, that Domenicalis two favourite drivers were in fact Alonso and, wait for it, Räikkonen.

Just because Kimi said Red Bull didn't call back to him doesn't mean it actually happened that way. It is after all Kimi we're talking about, not the most talkative person in the world. Also didn't he sign some other deal with Red Bull during that time? Something about them sponsoring his motorcross team.

Maybe they didn't want to sign him or maybe Kimi wanted to drive for another team.

 

 

You may hit the high spot there. It's interesting in terms of the point you got with Boullier's and Domenicalli's words. Anyway, if that's the case ( seems likely ), why did Kimi choose Ferrari over Red Bull ? Maybe Marko effect  :p


Edited by kimister, 23 December 2013 - 20:05.


#216 Skinnyguy

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:07

 Kimi had lapped Hamilton, so it wouldnt have mattered if Alonso had stopped or if Rosberg and Heidfeld had crashed on the last lap.....

 

Rosberg and Heidfeld fight happened with some laps to go. Trustme, I remember having the heart in the mouth watching them fight. :lol:



#217 Lone

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:15

You may hit the high spot there. It's interesting in terms of the point you got with Boullier's and Domenicalli's words. Anyway, if that's the case ( seems likely ), why did Kimi choose Ferrari over Red Bull ? Maybe Marko effect :p

Even for a guy like Kimi, who supposedly doesn't care about anything, it must feel great to be hired again by a team who didn't want his services anymore. That must be a very rewarding feeling. Also Ferrari is not that bad of a team to drive for. Most drivers on the grid dream to drive for Ferrari one day but how many has, and even twice?

And beating Vettel would only mean that Vettel wasn't that good after all but beating Alonso would mean restoring the reputation he had before getting sacked by Ferrari.

Edited by Lone, 23 December 2013 - 20:17.


#218 Radion

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:18

You may hit the high spot there. It's interesting in terms of the point you got with Boullier's and Domenicalli's words. Anyway, if that's the case ( seems likely ), why did Kimi choose Ferrari over Red Bull ? Maybe Marko effect  :p

Ferrari convinced him they'd have the better package than redbull. :wave:



#219 Kingshark

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:31

Rosberg and Heidfeld fight happened with some laps to go. Trustme, I remember having the heart in the mouth watching them fight. :lol:

 

I also remember Kubica being involved in that fights, and Rosberg lounging it down the inside of Heidfeld going into the Senna S from like 200 meters back.

 

I was a Ferrari supporter at the time, so as strange as it may seem now, I actually shared your feelings at the time.  :wave:



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#220 jedioriginal

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:52

Maybe that's what happened but I remember Boullier saying during the summer that Red Bull were pushing hard to sign Kimi. But more importantly I remember Turrini reporting Domenicali saying that Red Bull is pushing really hard to sign Kimi but that he believes Kimi will sign with another team. And this was all before Ricciardos name was even seriously on the table and before he tested for Red Bull and they started to praise how good he is. And way before that we heard, surprisingly, that Domenicalis two favourite drivers were in fact Alonso and, wait for it, Räikkonen.
Just because Kimi said Red Bull didn't call back to him doesn't mean it actually happened that way. It is after all Kimi we're talking about, not the most talkative person in the world. Also didn't he sign some other deal with Red Bull during that time? Something about them sponsoring his motorcross team.
Maybe they didn't want to sign him or maybe Kimi wanted to drive for another team.

This sounds about right.

#221 jedioriginal

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 20:56

Is that really what happened? Do you have some insight info you want to share?

Easy to see what happened when you read what Domenicali,Horner and Boullier comments were back then. Red Bull was totally played out by Ferrari. Horner really did not have any idea that Ferrari was after Kimi.

#222 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:35

Easy to see what happened when you read what Domenicali,Horner and Boullier comments were back then. Red Bull was totally played out by Ferrari. Horner really did not have any idea that Ferrari was after Kimi.

 

 

Also remember Kimi's quote that his decision may surprise others or look 'stupid' but it would be the right decision to him. This was in July at the Hungarian GP only a month after Webber had announced his retirement.  

 

http://www.gptoday.c..._somebody_else/

 

Horner and Lotus were openly courting Kimi at the time and obviously Ferrari was as well in the background.



#223 fabr68

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:38

Montezemolo is just building all the pressure on Alonso. That's why they got Kimi anyway: to push Alonso while most certainly fighting for the WDC also. (that leads to comfortable WCC situation in long run) Kimi doesn't need Luca to "praise" him since he's there to beat Alonso --> that would force Alonso to work harder to get faster.

I don't see any advantage to Alonso in these talks. Maybe just makes him uncomfortable starting the season.


LdM already put pressure on Alonso on the second half of the season.

Now he is putting pressure on Raikkonen. Not getting the car to work with.your driving style is not an option. Fall behind and your done.

#224 santababy

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:02

With all these bitching from some fans, can't wait for the 2014 season.
Will see whether Alonso is best driver that everyone knows & Kimi the obvious no.2?

Edited by santababy, 24 December 2013 - 04:04.


#225 bourbon

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 06:43

Well, Red Bull knew all of Kimis merits too and decided to not sign him.

 

That is neither here nor there.  Red Bull also knew all of Alonso's merits and declined to pursue him altogether.

 

And yet Ferrari considered both and scooped them up.  So you have to figure that Ferrari, at least, believed them both to be perfect toward earning championships, which is their goal.  


Edited by bourbon, 24 December 2013 - 06:47.


#226 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:42

That is neither here nor there.  Red Bull also knew all of Alonso's merits and declined to pursue him altogether.

 

Yeah, and probably for the same reason they ultimately decided against Raikönnen, only that in Alonsos case the decision was much easier, as it would be an expensive  mess anyway to buy him out of the Ferrari contract plus such a move would be certain to antagonize Vettel. Whereas Raikönnen was a free agent, friend of Vettel, yet they still passed him by and chose Ricciardo.

 

And yet Ferrari considered both and scooped them up.  So you have to figure that Ferrari, at least, believed them both to be perfect toward earning championships, which is their goal. 

 

 

There is no way to tell if they believed their driver pairing "perfect" or if they simply ended up with two bulls in the field accidentically, because the 2nd one was hired in a rush, out of fear to lose the 1st. The only thing we know is that's what Ferrari ended up with, and of course they are always going to tell publicly that they made a perfect decision, as all the teams do with all their driver choices.

 

But that's of course mostly PR. Only time and results will be proof one way or the other.



#227 santababy

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:26

There is no way to tell if they believed their driver pairing "perfect" or if they simply ended up with two bulls in the field accidentically, because the 2nd one was hired in a rush, out of fear to lose the 1st. The only thing we know is that's what Ferrari ended up with, and of course they are always going to tell publicly that they made a perfect decision, as all the teams do with all their driver choices.
 
But that's of course mostly PR. Only time and results will be proof one way or the other.


Kimi was hired in a rush? hmm bad Ferrari.

Edited by santababy, 24 December 2013 - 14:28.


#228 Jovanotti

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:43

Everyday I'm looking forward more to this duel. Räikkönen's got little to lose, but everything to gain, including shutting a lot of mouths here for us supporters.

#229 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:53

Kimi was hired in a rush, hmm bad Ferrari.

 

No, not bad, just (possibly)... a bit rushed. :)



#230 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:00

Everyday I'm looking forward more to this duel. Räikkönen's got little to lose, but everything to gain, including shutting a lot of mouths here for us supporters.

 

I'd say bot drivers have the same to gain or lose in such a head-to-head. There are hypothetical scenarios in which Alonso would look a bit crap (say, if he's constantly beaten, even by small margins), but also the other way round, if KR is "Massa-ed" by Alonso.

 

Personally I don't expect such extremes, more like a close duel with none of the two embarassing himself. But at this point in time, they both have hypothetically the same to lose, i.e. their excellent reputation they built over the years. Don't see how Raikönnen has less to lose than Alonso, really.



#231 bourbon

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 10:52

Yeah, and probably for the same reason they ultimately decided against Raikönnen, only that in Alonsos case the decision was much easier, as it would be an expensive  mess anyway to buy him out of the Ferrari contract plus such a move would be certain to antagonize Vettel. Whereas Raikönnen was a free agent, friend of Vettel, yet they still passed him by and chose Ricciardo.

 

Well RBR did not have a choice; Ferrari was Kimi's first choice.  Or do you think Ferrari was his 2nd choice and that his going to Red Bull was the decision he made that some were going to find "strange"? 

 

There is no way to tell if they believed their driver pairing "perfect" or if they simply ended up with two bulls in the field accidentically, because the 2nd one was hired in a rush, out of fear to lose the 1st. The only thing we know is that's what Ferrari ended up with, and of course they are always going to tell publicly that they made a perfect decision, as all the teams do with all their driver choices.  But that's of course mostly PR. Only time and results will be proof one way or the other.

 

I don't think Ferrari acted in a rush out of fear; the last four years speak for themselves.  Ferrari needs cups in the cabinet.  I believe Ferrari sought Kimi to give them the best chance at obtaining the WCC - independent of what two highly qualified drivers might do for themselves in the WDC race.   All the fancy contradictory speeches from LdM are meant only to motivate the players.


Edited by bourbon, 24 December 2013 - 10:54.


#232 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:03

Well RBR did not have a choice; Ferrari was Kimi's first choice.  Or do you think Ferrari was his 2nd choice and that his going to Red Bull was the decision he made that some were going to find "strange"? 

 

Standing back a bit, I simply don't see how any driver with a hypothetically free choice would opt to drive a Ferrari instead of a Red Bull, in this day and age. It makes no sense to me - unless there are other, not performance related factors important for that driver.

 

Coupled with KR's own words how Red Bull broke communication with him (which revelation would be counterproductive if he had simple used Red Bull to get more out of Ferrari, as some suggest) I'm inclined to think it was as simple as Red Bull chosing not to employ Raikönnen but take Ricciardo instead.



#233 Radion

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:28

I'd say bot drivers have the same to gain or lose in such a head-to-head. There are hypothetical scenarios in which Alonso would look a bit crap (say, if he's constantly beaten, even by small margins), but also the other way round, if KR is "Massa-ed" by Alonso.

 

Personally I don't expect such extremes, more like a close duel with none of the two embarassing himself. But at this point in time, they both have hypothetically the same to lose, i.e. their excellent reputation they built over the years. Don't see how Raikönnen has less to lose than Alonso, really.

I don't think raikkonen has the chance of losing the title 'most complete driver'... 

 

Edit: Btw, I think alonso is generally rated higher than raikkonen these days. He was voted best driver in 10 and 12 by the team bosses despite not winning the championship plus he's getting praised by everyone how he's the best driver of his generation. If he gets beaten by raikkonen, one has to wonder how alonso could have been rated so highly all these years. 

 

Maybe you can tell me what kind of reputation rai would lose if he is getting beaten by alonso!? You too rate alo higher than rai, don't you? So wouldn't alonso actually lose more than raikkonen if he gets beaten by him?


Edited by Radion, 24 December 2013 - 11:47.


#234 Lone

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:38

Standing back a bit, I simply don't see how any driver with a hypothetically free choice would opt to drive a Ferrari instead of a Red Bull, in this day and age. It makes no sense to me - unless there are other, not performance related factors important for that driver.
 
Coupled with KR's own words how Red Bull broke communication with him (which revelation would be counterproductive if he had simple used Red Bull to get more out of Ferrari, as some suggest) I'm inclined to think it was as simple as Red Bull chosing not to employ Raikönnen but take Ricciardo instead.


There is no guarantee that Red Bull will be better than Ferrari next year. If you want reasons for why anyone would choose Ferrari instead of Red Bull there are numerous reasons, just use your imagination instead of trying to find reasons to talk down Räikkonen. I'll give you one reason to get you started. Maybe Kimi chose Ferrari because he knows the team and believes he will be up and running from the get go.

Since only the people involved in the events of Kimi ending up in Ferrari instead of Red Bull your guess is as good as anyones, but that also means others take on the matter is equally valid. Personally, I believe Kimi signed with Ferrari before the so called break down in talks with Red Bull. Remember, after Kimis announcement of the break down Horner still insisted Kimi was a possible choice. Why would he need to do that? Signing Ricciardo shouldn't have been needed to be kept a secret.

#235 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:54

I don't think raikkonen has the chance of losing the title 'most complete driver'... 

 

Edit: Btw, I think alonso is generally rated higher than raikkonen these days. He was voted best driver in 10 and 12 by the team bosses despite not winning the championship plus he's getting praised by everyone how he's the best driver of his generation. If he gets beaten by raikkonen, one has to wonder how alonso could have been rated so highly all these years. 

 

Maybe you can tell me what kind of reputation rai would lose if he is getting beaten by alonso!? You too rate alo higher than rai, don't you? So wouldn't alonso actually lose more than raikkonen if he gets beaten by him?

 

Well, I don't care for imaginary titles like "most complete driver". To me it's more like I personally rate drivers, what I expect of them in given situations and so on. On that count I rate both FA and KR a bit different (cause I don't think they have the exact same strenghts and weaknesses), but both very highly. As such, I have certain expectations for next season, as stated above. And if one of the two falls way below those my subjective expectations, I'd have to reconsider my subjective earlier judgement.

 

And as that goes for both of them the same, I consider them both having the same chance to lose or gain, at this point in time. That's all.



#236 Balnazzard

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:58

I don't think raikkonen has the chance of losing the title 'most complete driver'... 

 

Edit: Btw, I think alonso is generally rated higher than raikkonen these days. He was voted best driver in 10 and 12 by the team bosses despite not winning the championship plus he's getting praised by everyone how he's the best driver of his generation. If he gets beaten by raikkonen, one has to wonder how alonso could have been rated so highly all these years. 

 

Maybe you can tell me what kind of reputation rai would lose if he is getting beaten by alonso!? You too rate alo higher than rai, don't you? So wouldn't alonso actually lose more than raikkonen if he gets beaten by him?

Ye exactly my thoughts! For me it really seems that majority of ppl expect Alonso to beat Kimi and generally Alonso is rated above Kimi...so in that sense Alonso has more to loose, since I think most ppl expect Alonso to win his team-mate by some margin.

 

If Alonso indeed manages to finish ahead of Kimi in Championship, it wouldnt be as major thing as Kimi winning Alonso, cause Kimi is indeed generally rated below Alonso, so if Alonso looses to Kimi  fair and square (and by that I mean that both have more or less the same amount of technical difficulties which are bound to happen next year) then I think many people will finally regard Kimi atleast on the same level, while Alonso could loose this "most complete driver" title. For sure if Alonso beats Kimi by fair margin (again if realiability of the car treats them fairly), then Im willing to give him more praise than I am right now and I expect other Kimi fans to do the same....either way I think the fight is going to be tight as I dont believe in all this "number-2 driver" theories, despite what Monte said.



#237 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:59

There is no guarantee that Red Bull will be better than Ferrari next year. If you want reasons for why anyone would choose Ferrari instead of Red Bull there are numerous reasons, just use your imagination instead of trying to find reasons to talk down Räikkonen. I'll give you one reason to get you started. Maybe Kimi chose Ferrari because he knows the team and believes he will be up and running from the get go.

Since only the people involved in the events of Kimi ending up in Ferrari instead of Red Bull your guess is as good as anyones, but that also means others take on the matter is equally valid. Personally, I believe Kimi signed with Ferrari before the so called break down in talks with Red Bull. Remember, after Kimis announcement of the break down Horner still insisted Kimi was a possible choice. Why would he need to do that? Signing Ricciardo shouldn't have been needed to be kept a secret.

 

Sure you can construe a lot of different reasons why KR could have chosen Ferrari over RB on his own, as you appear to do. But to me, they all appear less likely than the straightforward idea that 1) he want's out of struggling Lotus 2) he looks at the best team, i.e. RB, but it doesn't come off 3) he takes the next best choice, which is Ferrari.



#238 Lone

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:08

Sure you can construe a lot of different reasons why KR could have chosen Ferrari over RB on his own, as you appear to do. But to me, they all appear less likely than the straightforward idea that 1) he want's out of struggling Lotus 2) he looks at the best team, i.e. RB, but it doesn't come off 3) he takes the next best choice, which is Ferrari.


Maybe so, we all have our beliefs.

By the way, Merry Christmas to everyone!

#239 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:13

By the way, Merry Christmas to everyone!

 

:up: :)



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#240 Jvr

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 13:25

Merry Christmas! And let's also hope for really enjoyable New Year of 2014.

#241 santababy

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 14:33

Ye exactly my thoughts! For me it really seems that majority of ppl expect Alonso to beat Kimi and generally Alonso is rated above Kimi...so in that sense Alonso has more to loose, since I think most ppl expect Alonso to win his team-mate by some margin.
 
If Alonso indeed manages to finish ahead of Kimi in Championship, it wouldnt be as major thing as Kimi winning Alonso, cause Kimi is indeed generally rated below Alonso, so if Alonso looses to Kimi  fair and square (and by that I mean that both have more or less the same amount of technical difficulties which are bound to happen next year) then I think many people will finally regard Kimi atleast on the same level, while Alonso could loose this "most complete driver" title. For sure if Alonso beats Kimi by fair margin (again if realiability of the car treats them fairly), then Im willing to give him more praise than I am right now and I expect other Kimi fans to do the same....either way I think the fight is going to be tight as I dont believe in all this "number-2 driver" theories, despite what Monte said.


Fair post.

Merry Christmas everyone!

#242 wrcva

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:09

santas-list.gif

 

 

(Santa)  hmmmm ... pretty tall order. 

- ...

- great red car

- monster engine

- real racing tires

- no multi 21 

- competition on merit

- ...

 

Mary Xmas & a Happy New Year!

 

 



#243 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:47

It's no contradiction at all. Even people who can perform outside their comfort zone perform even better in it. From a teams perspective, if you got a driver with know qualities, as you said you think Alonso has, they would be stupid not to pave the way for him as much as possible, because ultimately it will be for the teams benefit.

 

A contradiction would be to pay an expensive driver and then make life hard for him.

Of course, even the most adaptable perform better in their comfort zone. That is not what I questioned at all. What I questioned is why the most adaptable driver "needs" to be made comfortable, the notion that he needs to be molly-cuddled.

 



#244 bourbon

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:54

Standing back a bit, I simply don't see how any driver with a hypothetically free choice would opt to drive a Ferrari instead of a Red Bull, in this day and age. It makes no sense to me - unless there are other, not performance related factors important for that driver.

 

Coupled with KR's own words how Red Bull broke communication with him (which revelation would be counterproductive if he had simple used Red Bull to get more out of Ferrari, as some suggest) I'm inclined to think it was as simple as Red Bull chosing not to employ Raikönnen but take Ricciardo instead.

 

That does not explain Kimi's statement, which came first.  His choosing RBR was going to be seen by exactly whom as a crazy or strange decision?  Not you, not me, not nobody.  So obviously there is more to it than what you have considered here.

 

I don't think it matters.  In the end, Ferrari got him and still has Alonso for 2014, in a new configuration, and they obviously consider that a winning combination in pursuit of championships - imo, they are focused on the WCC and the WDC seen as icing on the cake.



#245 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:57

Even for a guy like Kimi, who supposedly doesn't care about anything, it must feel great to be hired again by a team who didn't want his services anymore. That must be a very rewarding feeling. Also Ferrari is not that bad of a team to drive for. Most drivers on the grid dream to drive for Ferrari one day but how many has, and even twice?

And beating Vettel would only mean that Vettel wasn't that good after all but beating Alonso would mean restoring the reputation he had before getting sacked by Ferrari.

 

Yes, this is a good situation for Kimi. Expectations are lower this time. Nobody expects him to beat Alonso. Some people clearly believe Alonso is better and beating Kimi is taken for granted. Some others want to wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimi had felt both the points you have mentioned. Kimi can only surprise from this position.
 



#246 as65p

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 17:23

Yes, this is a good situation for Kimi. Expectations are lower this time. Nobody expects him to beat Alonso. Some people clearly believe Alonso is better and beating Kimi is taken for granted. Some others want to wait and see. I wouldn't be surprised if Kimi had felt both the points you have mentioned. Kimi can only surprise from this position.
 

 

If nobody expects him to beat Alonso then it logically follows that all people believe Alonso is better, not just some. I'm a bit surprised to hear that. :drunk:

 

More seriously I think a lot of people desperately hope and secretly believe he can beat Alonso but are afraid to admit it, for fear of being proved wrong. Which is a bit meh, really.



#247 Lone

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 17:40

If nobody expects him to beat Alonso then it logically follows that all people believe Alonso is better, not just some. I'm a bit surprised to hear that. :drunk:
 
More seriously I think a lot of people desperately hope and secretly believe he can beat Alonso but are afraid to admit it, for fear of being proved wrong. Which is a bit meh, really.


You are convinced that Alonso will beat Kimi and I am convinced of the opposite. The reason why more people are not voicing their opinion is because Kimi fans are more classy than Alonso fans. :)

#248 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 17:56

If nobody expects him to beat Alonso then it logically follows that all people believe Alonso is better, not just some. I'm a bit surprised to hear that. :drunk:

 

More seriously I think a lot of people desperately hope and secretly believe he can beat Alonso but are afraid to admit it, for fear of being proved wrong. Which is a bit meh, really.

On the first point, nobody expects Kimi to beat Alonso is certainly not "all believe Alonso is better", more like "some believe Alonso is better, some may believe they may be close and some not knowing".

 

Hope is very different to belief and they both have different connotation when it comes to public expectation. The point here is not who is wrong or right, but expectations and resultant rating. If you want to talk about right or wrong, still hope and belief are different and openly proclaiming and secretly believing are also different. If you boldly proclaim Alonso will beat Kimi, then be prepared to accept you were wrong if that does not happen. If some believe Kimi will beat Alonso, but they don't go around shouting this, that is okay as well, you don't have to proclaim everything in the open or give public guarantees. It is just that the stakes become much higher when someone gives open proclamations.

 



#249 grunge

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 18:00

As a German speaker, the translation from post 4 is accurate. I believe dM's ego is so big that he believes he/Ferrari can afford to commit the huge stupidity of implying, even before Kimi has driven a single lap in a red car, that he'll be a No. 2. These unfortunate comments are, at a minimum, strategically retarded: if Kimi was supposedly hired as an equal, why even mention this (which makes me already suspicious about terms of negotiation), and if he was effectively hired as a No. 2, why not wait till later in the season and see what happens (maybe he beats FA?). In any case, not that I expected more from Ferrari, but this does not sound good for Kimi, especially so early and coming from the top horse at Ferrari... 

Thanks for the clarification..Such a comment does sound completely unnecessary and in direct contradiction to what Montys been saying earlier..Im sure there is a bit of political background to all this..maybe a few egos to please in the Ferrari camp.

 

   Overall im not worried...While what goes through the Finn's head remains a mystery to most if not all of his followers,and i have as such even stopped trying to analyse the logic behind most of his decisions after 09,what im sure of,after more than decade of following his career in F1 is that he will never sign up for something that demotes him to the 'Supporter' role even before the actions starts...No way. Hes a competitor..the alpha male..and he knows his worth.

 

     Whatever the end result might be,im sure the two will be neck and neck..there isnt a stronger race driver on the grid compared to each of them..What im scared of though,is that Ferrari will produce yet another dog and that would be the worst anticlimax possible..fighting for the 6th and 7th on the grid will hardly be any justice after all the pre season hype. 



#250 turssi

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 18:39

Well Montezemolo could not say that Fernando is the nr2, what do you guys expect? I love the way he manipulates the media and brings out comments every time he opens his mouth in public. And I believe he loves it as well!