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Most clever technical innovation: 2009-2013


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Poll: Most clever technical innovation: 2009-2013 (165 member(s) have cast votes)

Cleverest/most innovative technical solution

  1. DDD (39 votes [23.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.64%

  2. EBD (37 votes [22.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.42%

  3. Engine mapping (10 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  4. Flexing wings (8 votes [4.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.85%

  5. F-Duct (68 votes [41.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.21%

  6. Other (3 votes [1.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.82%

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#1 lixlax

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:25

What do you guys think was the most clever technical innovation in the era of 2009-2013?



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#2 Kingshark

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:27

Brawn's double diffuser. Red Bull's EBD is a close second.



#3 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:31

'Coanda' effect



#4 EthanM

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:40

Brawn's double diffuser. Red Bull's EBD is a close second.

 

it wasn't brawn's, Williams and Toyota both had Double Diffusers at launch



#5 FullThrottleF1

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:41

The Brawn, Toyota, Williams Double Diffuser.

 

2nd is McLarens F-Duct.



#6 GodHimself

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 16:41

'Coanda' effect

I hope that post was ironic.   ;)

 

Even though the F-Duct comes closest to being something that has never been used before, none of the above are true innovations. F1 stopped being innovative a long time ago.



#7 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 17:00

Only the F-Duct is an innovation. The rest of the options are several decades old solutions dusted down. So it is the F-Duct.

 

If the OP meant smartest solution not breaching the rules, it is Honda/Brawn's DD. Including Toyota and Williams of course. Incorporating it in a design was originally Honda's (S.Aguri) idea, Toyota and Williams just took Brawn seriously when he tried to notify the rest of the teams, and they had some info on it too. It was the last time in four years when we saw that very sour expression on Newey's face, not to mention LdM, his butt hurts ever since.


Edited by Szoelloe, 21 December 2013 - 17:01.


#8 Disgrace

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:17

It could be any of three; the double diffuser was the only device to outfox Newey during that entire period. The F-Duct as Szoelloe points out, is the only real "innovation" listed. If you measure it by results, however, the exhaust blown diffuser has no competition.



#9 senna da silva

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:31

None are innovations and none are applicable to automotive engineering, I think this underlines the current aero dependency of F1.

 

Heat recovery in 2014 is the first technology I've been interested in for a long time. That could have some true innovations that could trickle down.



#10 JohnDoe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:32

Flexi wings for me. While other innovations might have existed in different forms or have been figured out, the flexi wings was one innovation which the other teams failed to break the code.



#11 Skinnyguy

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 18:36

As it´s been said before in the thread, only F-duct is a new solution. Also the most original, I don´t think (besides helmet design) anyone before thought about the driver being an active part of aerodynamics.

 

Rest has been thought about and used before.



#12 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:00

F-Duct. Maybe not in terms of overall performance improvement, that would go to DDD or EBD but in terms of complexity, execution and how original it was. It also made the car look different which is something that doesn't happen often anymore in F1.

#13 Kobasmashi

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:09

F-Duct, it's one of those things that just makes you go "....Cool."

#14 F1ultimate

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:11

I gave the F-Duct my vote. It was a stupid as it was clever. In other words it was ingenious. 



#15 dave34m

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:16

Was it called the F Duct because the duct was next to the f in vodafone? Didnt McLaren have a different name for it?

BTW. I loved the 2009 season because of the DD but I think the f dust was the best for me



#16 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:33

Didn't McLaren call it the J Duct?

#17 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 21:47

As an afterthought, the wheel-nut designs and solutions of the past 2-3 seasons have been quite under the radar, and are quite ingenious. Also, from the past few seasons, I have to say that the FIA-banned Lotus Reactive Ride-height system would steal show easily for me. I kind of liked that. It was an original idea.

 

edit: Have to mention the Merc FRIC suspension. That should be included in the poll IMHO.


Edited by Szoelloe, 21 December 2013 - 21:49.


#18 apoka

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:34

RB traction control

 

 

 

 

(sorry could not resist  ;) )



#19 ANF

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 22:51

The most clever innovation is probably some fancy data analysis computer software super hack that we've never heard of.



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#20 demet06

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 23:00

They're all fantastic innovations but there's nothing new in F1.

Flexing wings was always technically illegal as its a moving aero part, so I'm not in favour of that. Engine mapping is very clever but was again brought in as a form of traction control before becoming cold blown then hot blown exhausts. Now it appears that Renault were cutting the number of cylinders firing so the drivers could be on the throttle around the corners without delivering power (is that not traction control?).

The blown diffusers in various guises, from the Brawn/Toyota/Williams double diffuser to the cold/hot blown diffusers and then the coanda effect blown diffuser are magnificent examples of designers getting the absolute maximum from the regulations.

The F Duct is an elegant solution to reduce drag. I remember seeing the first pic from pre-season testing and noticing the air scoop on top of the McLaren bodywork, "I wonder what that's for, its not there for nothing" was my thoughts.

There's nothing new in blown wings though as the Blackburn Buccaneer (designed in the 1950's) had ducts from the jet engines blowing over the top surface of the wings to create low pressure which creates lift and thereby reduces take off and landing speeds.

My votes gone for the double diffuser as Ross Brawn had even told the Technical Working Group that the regs were wide open for it.



#21 prty

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 01:58


The F Duct is an elegant solution to reduce drag.

 

A good idea, but the driver closing a hole with his hand is about the least elegant solution that comes to mind.


 



#22 ElDictatore

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:25

Was it called the F Duct because the duct was next to the f in vodafone? Didnt McLaren have a different name for it?

BTW. I loved the 2009 season because of the DD but I think the f dust was the best for me

 

Dont quote me on that, but AFAIR they named it F-Duct so people get confused. Pitty they had to lay open how it worked, otherwise the other teams would have taken more time crack it.



#23 f1RacingForever

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 03:52

I'll go with F-Duct. DDD, Engine mapping, Flex wings are far more logical and more closely fit the aerodynamic philosophy of trying to get clean air to the rear end. EBD wasn't an original idea so it doesn't measure up.



#24 Maustinsj

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:43

A good idea, but the driver closing a hole with his hand is about the least elegant solution that comes to mind.


I believe that this was how the other teams copied McLaren (hand operated). McLaren's wasn't operated like this.

#25 Zava

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 09:01

I believe that this was how the other teams copied McLaren (hand operated). McLaren's wasn't operated like this.

I think mclaren had a knee (elbow?) operated version, but the others couldn't copy that, because the tubs were homoogated.



#26 EthanM

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:30

The McLaren version was indeed knee operated, in the straights when the driver didn't need to use his left foot to break he'd use his knee to engage the F duct then when he moved his left foot to brake the F duct would "close"



#27 DrProzac

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:31

Most clever? Gotta be the F-Duct.



#28 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:48

If I had insurance covering me againt "shoes being thrown at me" I'd say the blown wheelnuts of the FW35  :rotfl:



#29 olliek88

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 12:52

Personally i think the exhaust blown diffuser combined with intricate engine maps was the cleverest (or most clever? I don't know, my grammar is sub-optimal.) 

 

Supposedly the DDD was quiet "obvious" within the rues set when they were written, even Newey said (according to Autosport) he considered it early in RB5's development but didn't follow that route because a) he didn't think it was worth it and b) he thought it was borderline illegal (bet that second point would've been irrelevant had he thought it worth it :p

 

I thought the EBD was not only very clever but a difficult concept to adopt (unlike the F-Duct, which Renault appeared to master better than "inventors" Mclaren!) which gave RBR an advantage in EBD development during 2010/11.



#30 ViMaMo

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 13:53

DDD followed by EBD. 



#31 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 14:25

Definitely the double diffusor, it gave Brawn a clear edge it needed to win the championship. Followed by the blown diffusor, gave the Bulls championships as well.



#32 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 15:26

Red Bull's exhaust blown diffuser because it stood the test of time.



#33 F1Champion

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 16:26

I think the f-duct was a real genius idea and not easy to convince a team to adopt it.

 

Blowing diffuser is a close second because of the performance advance.

 

The double diffuser was just an exploitation of a poorly written rule. Some woke up to it and others didn't. So this comes third.



#34 Kobasmashi

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 19:44

Any love for Renault's front exit exhaust? I thought that was pretty nifty.



#35 lbennie

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 00:37

Newey's flexi wings, hands down.



#36 Reinmuster

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:18

Newey's brain.



#37 DCult

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:03

Red Bull's political and financial power within F1. That's what gave them the championships, therefore the best innovation they could come up with  :p



#38 Crossmax

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:11

Newey's flexi wings, hands down.

Not my vote, but it was certainly entertaining to see Ferrari attempting to copy the concept...

 



#39 ArkZ

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:13

Not my vote, but it was certainly entertaining to see Ferrari attempting to copy the concept...

 

and Ferrari more or less succeed, not to the Redbull extent but still SF was the only team I guess (with Redbull ofc) that was able to make it work , both in 2010 (but after the test rule update in Spa FW stopped flexing, Redbull was still able to continue that, and in 2011. The flexing showed in the end of the straight in the video also took place in RB7 in the end of the straight in Abu Dhabi. Red Bull explained it by DRS but not sure.


Edited by ArkZ, 23 December 2013 - 12:34.


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#40 onemoresolo

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 14:53

Dont quote me on that, but AFAIR they named it F-Duct so people get confused. Pitty they had to lay open how it worked, otherwise the other teams would have taken more time crack it.

 

I believe the F-Duct name came from a magazine or newspaper rather than McLaren, simply because the duct was on the "f" of Vodafone along the nosecone. McLaren's name for it was RW80 - typically McLaren, that.


Edited by onemoresolo, 23 December 2013 - 14:54.


#41 thuGG

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 14:55

I think F-Duct, activated by hand, some weird aero tunnels. It was pretty clever and fresh idea.

Also Renault's backward exhaust.


Edited by thuGG, 23 December 2013 - 14:55.


#42 MichaelPM

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 15:18

EBD. Not just for the design but how they leveraged it to be an advantage for so long, the loopiest of all loopholes.

 

The genius of the EBD is that it came after Renault gets agreement to make changes to their engine during the engine freeze, then they have a technical advantage in the engine that no one else can legally copy or that could be effectively equalised because they claimed reliability to prevent it from being banned totally.

Sure Lotus could do it but they didn't have the resources to exploit it like RBR. Mercedes could do it a bit but simply not to the same extent. Ferrari simply could not do anything near it while being the main rival the whole time.

So unlike any other suggestion, the EBD completely snookered the other teams while the other innovations simply required time and resources for everyone else to acquire.

 

I'm glad it will be gone next year because of it was so painfully unfair to the sport but from a multidisciplinary technical and political stand point they really nailed it. Engine, ECU and Aero coming together while regulations guarded it. Bravo  :up:



#43 TC3000

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 15:49

Interesting, that FRIC and other suspension related solutions, didn't even make the poll.

 

Maybe this just shows, one of the issues with current F1 - while people may "hate" it, they still only like to talk about aerodynamics, because that's (all) you can "see".

I'm sure there will be many "clever" technical solutions in the coming season, as there have been some "clever & smart" solutions in the past, but most of them are not even "on the radar" of the fans, because they are not easily observable or easy to hear (engine mapping).

 

Everybody will "droll" about each little winglet, gurney flap or turning vane, because that's all what you can "see" - therefore it will be "analyzed" to death.

 

I would like to see people developing the same enthusiasm for rocker &/or suspension geometries, and damper curves. 

But therein lays the issue, F1 like to claim being a technical advanced sport (and it is in some respects), it's just sad, that they don't like to share/talk about some of there "really" smart/inventive solutions. 

 

Most of the "arms race" in the coming years, on the power train and suspension side of things, will take place hidden form public/TV/fans eyes, which, while understandable to some extent, I find rather sad, and I don't think, F1 is doing itself a favor with their "cold war" tactics.

 

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year/Season to all fellow forumers


Edited by TC3000, 23 December 2013 - 15:49.


#44 MclarenMircea

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 17:15

F-duct was the most clever innovation in my opinion. It's the only real innovation. 



#45 demet06

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 19:25

Wasn't McLaren's name for the F Duct, Rear Wing Drag Reduction Device Created by Ducted Air/Human Interface.



#46 Hans V

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 21:18

None are innovations and none are applicable to automotive engineering, I think this underlines the current aero dependency of F1.

Heat recovery in 2014 is the first technology I've been interested in for a long time. That could have some true innovations that could trickle down.


This. Couldn't agree more.

#47 Watkins74

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 21:37

This is just a question so don't jump all over me.  :D

 

I thought the F-Duct was known about but the teams had one of their "gentlemans agreements" to not stall the rear wing. I have a wicked cold so maybe the cold medicine is screwing with my memory. 



#48 Crossmax

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 21:50

This is just a question so don't jump all over me.  :D

 

I thought the F-Duct was known about but the teams had one of their "gentlemans agreements" to not stall the rear wing. I have a wicked cold so maybe the cold medicine is screwing with my memory. 

Wasn't that for 2011?



#49 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 22:10

All of Newey's WDC and WCC winning cars have had some sort of EBD going on. To think that he has been at it for over 20 years and it is only now people have clicked on how much benefit that 'trick' has brought to the game.

#50 Maustinsj

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 16:46

All of Newey's WDC and WCC winning cars have had some sort of EBD going on. To think that he has been at it for over 20 years and it is only now people have clicked on how much benefit that 'trick' has brought to the game.


Didn't the MP4-18 have an EBD?