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#151 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:47

 

 Can't say I understand what you're saying. Were monoposti banned from competing under any formula at the time?

Two seater bodies were mandatory under the original rules of every Formule Internationale before the 750kg - although that rule seems to have been relaxed for the last season of the 1925-27 1.5 litre formula - and perhaps for 1928. But the intention was certainly that all proposed formulae for the years 1929-33 would return to mandatory two-seaters.

 

The proposed (approved, but never implemented) 1931-33 rules are particularly interesting ...



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#152 Tomas Karlsson

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:48

The Caracciola picture is from the Swedish Winter GP in February 1931. The car a M-B SSK.



#153 Michael Ferner

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 13:38



Interesting that the triangle on the Alfa seems to be upside down.

 



Wasn't it always?

 

I have to correct myself here: leafing through Hull's Alfa book, there are pictures of it in both positions. Someone with a better photo collection may chime in here, but it seems it was "regular" early on, and "upside down" during the later years of Alfa Corse.

 

 



Two seater bodies were mandatory under the original rules of every Formule Internationale before the 750kg - although that rule seems to have been relaxed for the last season of the 1925-27 1.5 litre formula - and perhaps for 1928. But the intention was certainly that all proposed formulae for the years 1929-33 would return to mandatory two-seaters.

 

The proposed (approved, but never implemented) 1931-33 rules are particularly interesting ...

 

Interesting! I recall reading something similar, although it's certainly wrong: both the Tipo A and Tipo B, for instance, were clearly built for the International Formula, and competed in events run under these formulae during the years 1931 to '33.

 

About the 1931 rules, I read (in "Power & Glory") that they were basically identical with the American rules at the time, except for a 5-litre capacity limit instead of 6. Can you elaborate?



#154 fw07c

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 13:40

I wonder why Vandervell would weight the Lotus 18 less seat and fuel tank? As presumable it was tested with a seat and fuel tank.



#155 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 13:53

 


 

I have to correct myself here: leafing through Hull's Alfa book, there are pictures of it in both positions. Someone with a better photo collection may chime in here, but it seems it was "regular" early on, and "upside down" during the later years of Alfa Corse.

 

 


 

Interesting! I recall reading something similar, although it's certainly wrong: both the Tipo A and Tipo B, for instance, were clearly built for the International Formula, and competed in events run under these formulae during the years 1931 to '33.

 

About the 1931 rules, I read (in "Power & Glory") that they were basically identical with the American rules at the time, except for a 5-litre capacity limit instead of 6. Can you elaborate?

Far too long to go into here, Michael. Check your PMs. :)



#156 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 14:09

Re the aero screen on the Tipo A Alfa at Pescara - I am frankly bewildered by the puzzlement expressed above....have you never seen a folding aero screen before?  :confused:

 

DCN



#157 nicanary

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 15:01

Re the aero screen on the Tipo A Alfa at Pescara - I am frankly bewildered by the puzzlement expressed above....have you never seen a folding aero screen before?  :confused:

 

DCN

Mmm... It seems I was reading something where there was nothing! I'll get me coat.....



#158 Roger Clark

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 15:04

I wonder why Vandervell would weight the Lotus 18 less seat and fuel tank? As presumable it was tested with a seat and fuel tank.


Isn't it "without the seat fuel tank"? Only required for full length Grands Prix.

#159 Roger Clark

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 15:16

In circuit racing, yes, but I believe the car won a number of sprints and hill climbs.
 
It's a bit confusing to call the car Bimotore, although it was "bimotore", of course. The straightforward nomenclature is Monoposto Tipo A, and Monoposto Tipo B for the "P3".

The only hill climb I know of was the Susa--Moncenisio on 5th July in which Campari finished fifth.

Apparently he had a cunning plan to stop one of the engines when cornering thereby increasing the cornering speed of the driving wheel opposite that of the stopped engine. The car had no differential, of course. The plan back fired when the second engine also stopped, causing Campari to jump out and push start the car. I hope he didn't have to do this uphill.

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#160 kayemod

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 15:48

I don't think we've had a thread growing at this speed since the days of the now-departed Blood Pressure. I think DCN was to blame for that one as well...



#161 fw07c

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 15:57

Isn't it "without the seat fuel tank"? Only required for full length Grands Prix.

The main saddle tank held 22 gallons and seat 9.5 gallons.Who carried out the test was it Tony Brooks?



#162 ReWind

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 17:04

I think DCN was to blame for that one as well...

 

... and also for the meaningful title of this one.  ;)



#163 kayemod

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 17:30

... and also for the meaningful title of this one.  ;)

 

Yes indeed, as originally written, I took the word 'Testing' to refer to our patience, though I have to confess that I seem to have had fewer problems coping with the new and not exactly improved forum than some of the rest of you.

 

It's taken a lot of getting used to, but mostly it seems to work more or less OK.



#164 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 17:39

Sorry boys, but it is gratifying when this material seems to be so well received. With around 1.8-million motor sporting images - the majority straight from our GP Library original negs or transparencies - it just seems churlish not to share a mere few dozen of them. Pity Haymarket/LAT don't seem to have a similar chip installed...

(Possibly my last-ever TNF post.)

DCN

#165 Nick Savage

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 18:20

Doug,

Please don't go !   this is no time to be making New Year's Resolutions ...

Nick



#166 Tim Murray

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 18:26

This is devastating news, Doug, just when we thought you'd come back to us. Is there anything we can do to persuade you to change your mind?

#167 arttidesco

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 18:28

(Possibly my last-ever TNF post.)

DCN

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ! :confused:



#168 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 19:38

Hang on a mo - what I meant was that the site owners might well ban me for sniping at their lack of enthusiast generosity where their remarkable LAT photo archive is concerned.

There there dear?

DCN (I 'preciate the reaction, OTT though it has been)

#169 Vitesse2

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 20:31

They don't do subtle in Bristol ... (or Ruislip, either, apparently!) :smoking:



#170 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 21:06

Sorry boys, but it is gratifying when this material seems to be so well received. With around 1.8-million motor sporting images - the majority straight from our GP Library original negs or transparencies - it just seems churlish not to share a mere few dozen of them. Pity Haymarket/LAT don't seem to have a similar chip installed...

(Possibly my last-ever TNF post.)

DCN


Bye Bye....



#171 Doug Nye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 21:26

Bye Bye....

:up: 



#172 kayemod

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 22:19

They don't do subtle in Bristol ... (or Ruislip, either, apparently!) :smoking:

 

 

Or Poole, but I've found one you can all sing along with, it's a karaoke version, so all together now... ♫



#173 arttidesco

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 23:05

They don't do subtle in Bristol ... (or Ruislip, either, apparently!) :smoking:

 

Has Ruislip been granted independence yet ?

 

Hang on a mo - what I meant was that the site owners might well ban me for sniping at their lack of enthusiast generosity where their remarkable LAT photo archive is concerned.

There there dear?

DCN (I 'preciate the reaction, OTT though it has been)

 

So long as the respsonse to your testing posts remains high they, probably welcome the extra readership  ;)



#174 fw07c

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:54

I shall miss your depth of knowledge and enthusiastic comments. The site will be poorer without you,

 

Bye

 

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:



#175 David Beard

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 13:13

The Cobb picture presumably refers to this memory from David Beard: http://forums.autosp...at-silverstone/

It does Richard. Well remembered. I still hope to find a picture of Dad and others lifting off the body shell, to prove his claim to fame that day.


Edited by David Beard, 02 January 2014 - 13:13.


#176 Doug Nye

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 21:30

Oh well - try these?

 

 

 

qpfh.jpg
 

d1il.jpg
 

os64.jpg
 

bcm0.jpg
 

b5io.jpg
 

k3lo.jpg
 

ld5r.jpg
 

6v9d.jpg
 

jnyd.jpg
 

a6zv.jpg
 

jg8e.jpg
 
 

u7nh.jpg
 
All Photos Strictly Copyright or Via: The GP Library
 
DCN
 
 

Edited by Doug Nye, 02 January 2014 - 21:44.


#177 D-Type

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 22:29

Let's have a try:

 

The wreck of Ken Wharton's Vanwall in the 1955 International Trophy

Lurani's MG K3 in the 1933 Mille Miglia

Lotus 16 body buck

Mercedes-Benz 300SLR - but where?

A hangar full of Fairey Swordfishes

A Petermax Muller on the left and Kurt Kuhnke's VKL Volkswagen Special on the rightr - early postwar Germany

BRMs at Spa 1962 with practice numbers

A Maserati - or is it an ERA?

GT40 #1073 driven by Terry Drury or Terry Sanger in the 1968 Targa Florio

Bernie Ecclestone[?] and Graham Hill

The 2nd Farnham Flyer pretending to be Nuvolari in the ex- Prince Igor Troubetskoy Ferrari 166 chassis no '010I'

and the last picture has appeared since I posted!


Edited by D-Type, 02 January 2014 - 22:42.


#178 Jean L

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 22:36

 
#1  1953  Albi  BRM V16 ?
 
#2  1933  Mille Miglia MG Magnette K3 K3001  Earl Howe Hugh Hamilton
 
#3  Lotus-Climax 16 body
 
#4  1955  Swedish Grand Prix  
 
#6  1947  on the left the VW Kübelwagen Special of Petermax Müller.
 
#7  1961  Gran Premio di Siracusa  BRM-Climax P48/57 of Brooks
 
#9  1968  Targa Florio  Ford GT40 1073  Drury  Sanger
 
#10  1965  Coppa Città di Enna   Cobra Daytona CSX2299 of Jack Sears


#179 Philip Whiteman

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 22:37

Off the top of my head, the top picture shows one of the early model Vanwalls, burned out when being driven by Harry Schell; that's a Lotus 16 'mini Vanwall' body under construction; the 300SLR looks like it is being driven by Moss and would only be yumping like that at a road circuit (Dundrod?) The radial-engine biplanes are Hawkers - export models for Persia/Iraq, by the look of the tail markings - Harts? Bonus point for noticing the Kestrel-engined versions in the background? And was this shot at Langley? Oh - and that's Doug nye in the red car.

 

I'll get my coat



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#180 kayemod

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 22:52

The radial-engine biplanes are Hawkers - export models for Persia/Iraq, by the look of the tail markings - Harts?

 

Bristol Mercury engines? We've been warned to expect the odd power cut, so I'm already wearing my coat.



#181 Roger Clark

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 00:20

Is that Geoff Goddard in the Maserati?

#182 jonpollak

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 00:41

wow....

Start und Ziel indeed.

Jp



#183 JoBo

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 00:49

Let's have a try:

 

 

A Maserati - or is it an ERA?

 

 

Maserati 8CM #3018, ex-Nuvolari

 

JoBo



#184 david5

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:26

T-Bone Walker on TNF, I am impressed. Keep up the good work Doug.

#185 rudi

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:08


 the 300SLR looks like it is being driven by Moss and would only be yumping like that at a road circuit (Dundrod?)

 

No. Jean L is right, Moss is driving during pracice for the 1955 GP of Sweden.



#186 Macca

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 14:11

We had the Hawkers before - they were Audax's IIRC.

 

The BRMs are 1961 but the numbers don't match - maybe a practise shot and re-numbered before the race because of unauthorised race-cards. Reims?

 

Paul M



#187 ChrisJson

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 14:36

 

The BRMs are 1961 but the numbers don't match - maybe a practise shot and re-numbered before the race because of unauthorised race-cards. Reims?

 

Paul M

 

Siracusa as Jean L said earlier!

 

Christer



#188 Tim Murray

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 14:42

Siracusa as Jean L said earlier!

 

Christer

 

... because the Shell ad ('con ICA') indicates Italy, and the numbers match.



#189 Alan Cox

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 16:43

Mr Goddard was, presumably, at Donington on the occasion of some photo-shoot or other as he was the 'official' Donington Collection photographer in the early days of the museum, was he not?



#190 Steve L

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 20:27

 

Oh well - try these?

 

ld5r.jpg
 
All Photos Strictly Copyright or Via: The GP Library
 
DCN
 
 

 

 

What is the #6 car with the interesting air box in the background I wonder?



#191 Doug Nye

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 20:54

Good question. It is Syracuse before practice in 1961 - No 6 seems to have distinctive Cooper side panelling, pannier tank and windscreen - but engine cowl treatment is indeed interesting - a mis-numbered Cooper-Maserati or Cooper-Alfa perhaps. The rest all seem to have been correctly identified. That is Geoff Goddard in the Donington 8CM one day while we were photographing the cars there. Characteristically he went like the clappers! Subsequently he flat-spotted all four ancient Pirelli Stelvio Corsa tyres on Wheatie's Maserati 250F which cannot have known what had suddenly hit it...having been owned and driven by Volonterio in its youth.

Perhaps explore the Mille Miglia MG image more fully...and the 1947 German grid, and the Cobra Daytona?

DCN

#192 Tuboscocca

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 21:15

Good question. It is Syracuse before practice in 1961 - No 6 seems to have distinctive Cooper side panelling, pannier tank and windscreen - but engine cowl treatment is indeed interesting - a mis-numbered Cooper-Maserati or Cooper-Alfa perhaps. The rest all seem to have been correctly identified. That is Geoff Goddard in the Donington 8CM one day while we were photographing the cars there. Characteristically he went like the clappers! Subsequently he flat-spotted all four ancient Pirelli Stelvio Corsa tyres on Wheatie's Maserati 250F which cannot have known what had suddenly hit it...having been owned and driven by Volonterio in its youth.

Perhaps explore the Mille Miglia MG image more fully...and the 1947 German grid, and the Cobra Daytona?

DCN

Mille Miglia: 1933: #42 Lord Howe/Hugh Hamilton , 22oa in 18h02'34''

 

No own knowledge--only the right books

 

Michael



#193 Tuboscocca

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 21:32

Daytona Cobra #20

 

Coppa della Città Enna Pergusa 1965: #20 Jack Sears (4th oa); winner  Mario Casoni Ferrari 250LM

 

 

A RAI video!!!

 

Michael



#194 D-Type

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 21:36

Could the 1947 German race be the Braunschweiger Prinzenparkrennen?  It's the only 1747 race on Martin Krejki's site with about the right number of starters.



#195 Tuboscocca

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 21:46

Could the 1947 German race be the Braunschweiger Prinzenparkrennen?  It's the only 1747 race on Martin Krejki's site with about the right number of starters.

Or Grenzlandring?? For Braunschweig the landscape is too 'open', Prinzenpark was a race in a city park???

 

Michael



#196 ReWind

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 22:32

 


k3lo.jpg
 

...and the 1947 German grid?

 

In fact it was 1948. The Karlsruher Dreieckrennen on 11 July.

# 41 Petermax Müller, VW-Eigenbau

# 45 Kurt Kuhnke, VLK-VW

# 47 Jürgen Hennig, VW-Spezial (Hennig)

# 53 Huschke von Hanstein, VW-Coupé-Spezial (Hanstein)

# 42 Emil Vorster, AFM-MG

# 49 Rudolf Ihle, Ihle-Sport-Opel

# 50 Günther Schorr, VW-Eigenbau


Edited by ReWind, 04 January 2014 - 10:10.


#197 ensign14

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 23:44

They liked their Stromlienenwagen...



#198 uechtel

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:10

They had a lot of circuits where they needed them...  ;)



#199 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:46

Number 6 in the Syracuse picture is Munaron's Conrero Cooper-Alfa. There is another photo, number 13 here.

http://www.galeriede...oper-conrero-f1

Other photos are a little confused.

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#200 Tuboscocca

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 10:47

They had a lot of circuits where they needed them...  ;)

..they used parts of Autobahnen and their junctions..

 

http://web.archive.o...n_karlsruhe.htm

 

Circuit map of Karlsruher Dreiecksrennen.

 

Michael