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Project Cars


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#1 feverpitch82

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 13:36

Hi all,

 

I'm surprised there's no thread about Project Cars, it's shaping very nicely at the moment. I've played it in Beta but its due for release in 2014 on PC and next gen consoles. I have driven most simulators so I can safely say I think you will enjoy the physics. Ben Collins is working on the car handling with the development team, so hopefully his influence will help it be more realistic. 

 



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#2 The Kanisteri

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 18:43

http://forums.autosp...ic/155638-cars/

 

If they called Gran Turismo 5 as "project forever"...Project Cars might take even more longer...



#3 chunder27

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 11:39

But remember its only in alpha phase they all say

 

Jesus Christ its been there for 2 years!

 

Looks pretty but if you have ever played real racing on your tablet, this dont play much better!



#4 noikeee

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 15:00

Haven't tried this one but people in the simracing community aren't terribly positive about this title regarding the physics.



#5 karlth

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 02:17

Haven't tried this one but people in the simracing community aren't terribly positive about this title regarding the physics.

 

Agree but it sure is the prettiest one of them all.  



#6 MaGiK

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 10:40

After changes in tyre model and FFB it drives really good aswell :)

Few weeks ago i made this video:

 

 

 

 



#7 chunder27

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 17:57

Ysee videos only show prettiness!

 

And if that is all you want then its fine, but last time I played it it felt the same as it did 2 years ago!

 

Like I should have been using a pad!  lol



#8 ElDictatore

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 18:23

I have played it in Alpha a little bit around 1.5 years ago (not quite sure tbh). It actually felt pretty nice to me, obviously not as realistic in physics as GTR and IRacing. But if they advertise it in the right way they could make a good title out of it, seeing how the big devs and game shoot themselves in the foot just by their DLC policy and lack of content.



#9 Tosh

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 19:02

Project Cars F1 Video

http://youtu.be/_0oTs_8y9r8



#10 number27

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 14:12

Very cool looking - but is it a game or a sim I wonder?



#11 RacingDuck

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:43

I remember reading a year or so ago that it is going to be a sim, either way Im glad that its going to be avaliable for the 360 (seeing as my shite pc would never run it)

#12 pRy

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:27

Bad news RacingDuck.. they scrapped the 360 and PS3 support. They've moved onto next gen. 



#13 RacingDuck

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 17:48

Aww, well at least it doesnt release until the fall, gives me time to buy an xbox one

#14 Siddley

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 23:29

I found some videos of Project Cars on Youtube - I thought it was going to be all about modern supercars ( yawn ) and modern tracks.

 

I was surprised to find a Lotus 49, a Zakspeed Capri and a really nice version of the old Spa circuit. It looks great graphically. If the physics are good then count me in. I'd share them if I knew how to embed a YouTube vid here, but they should be easy enough to find.

( Except don't count me in, my PC would chuck a rod through it's block if asked to run those kind of graphics  :(  )


Edited by Siddley, 22 March 2014 - 23:30.


#15 chunder27

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 15:23

I havent played this for a while, indeed I think they actually stopped people trying it recently.

 

But to be honest the graphics were good but the gameplay was poor, it drive like a console game, and thoughyou could probably work at it to get it better, compared to the RF games or Iracing, even the F1 games, if you like a bit of feel, this sucks



#16 Siddley

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 16:08

I'd rather have physics than graphics, so that kills it for me...



#17 MCH

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 17:06

I havent played this for a while, indeed I think they actually stopped people trying it recently.

 

But to be honest the graphics were good but the gameplay was poor, it drive like a console game, and thoughyou could probably work at it to get it better, compared to the RF games or Iracing, even the F1 games, if you like a bit of feel, this sucks

 

When was this, that you tried it? You are aware this title is under development and not even close to release. As for SMS trying to stop people trying the title; You could buy a membership to take part in the development but as they got enough people involved they closed for new members (November 2012 this, nothing recent)

 

For your harsh judgement of this sim you do seem horribly misinformed. 



#18 RogerGraham

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 03:06

Agree with MCH here.  It doesn't make sense to dismiss the sim based on one person's comments, and especially before you've tried it, and especially before it's even finished  :)

 

To clarify: the SMS team is aiming for this to be a better sim than any other.  Whether they achieve that lofty goal we'll know late this year, but in my humble view it's looking and feeling bloody good and getting better with each iteration on the tyre model, engine&gearbox code, aero modelling, suspension details etc.  The tyre iterations are based particularly on feedback from Ben Collins and Nic Hamilton, but also  on comments from the ~8,000 active members.  The development team also includes guys with extensive real-life racing experience, albeit not quite at Ben's or Nic's level of public awareness.  The development of the all-important tyres is still ongoing, and they're modelled in real-time a more detailed way than other sims that I know of (although I don't know how iRacing's NTM is done).  

 

Most importantly, the game is still in development.  It's fascinating to be able to be able to watch the progress on a daily basis, but some community members get a bit narky if there's a step back in one area after two steps forward in another, or that some "simple" thing to fix isn't fixed yet.  Regarding the all-important physics engine, it's not uncommon to see someone having issues with their force feedback setup, which can massively alter perceptions of the game's physics.  There are many options for tweaking the FFB, and some players get stuck into the tweaker to get the sort of feedback feel they like.  So when someone says they don't like some aspects of the physics, one of the first things is to check how their FFB is working, although such remote diagnosis is difficult when you can't actually feel what they're feeling.  That's obviously not to say that the physics is perfect, but that's the whole point of the community process - get feedback from as many people as possible, using as many variations of PC/controller as possible, to make the sim as good as they can.

 

Just on the "they actually stopped people trying it".  Their WMD funding model is (was) Kickstarter-like in that your payment entitles you to benefits such as periodic builds, membership of the forum to comment on development and request features etc, a copy of the final game, as well as things like creating car liveries and/or track billboards for yourself.  However, it is very non-Kickstarter-like in that your contribution also entitles you to a portion of the game's revenue.  Projections are a bit of guesswork, but for every million sales, a WMD member might expect to receive somewhere between 3-4 times their "not investment".  However, about a year ago the UK's Financial Services Authority (now Financial Conduct Authority) asked SMS to stop taking new contributions until the legal situation around such crowd-funded-with-returns funding models were clarified.  Fortunately SMS has been given the green light to continue, and this all happened after SMS had received enough funds to finish the game's development.

 

They have just started an official YouTube channel here, as part of a marketing plan that will ramp up over the next ~8 months.  Or a YouTube search brings up loads of community-generated videos.  Obviously you can't properly judge physics from videos but it gives you some idea.  Since new builds come out daily, look for videos released as recently as possible.  Or if you have a lot of spare time (!), go back to old videos and see how it's progressed over the last couple of years.

 

The game should come out for PC, XBox One, PS/4, WiiU and SteamOS.



#19 RogerGraham

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 16:56

For Siddley and others who don't have access, here's a recently-updated list of cars that are (or hopefully soon will be) licensed for use in the game.  None of these are 100% completed, although many are currently drivable in an excellent state graphically, with varying degrees of completeness on suspension/tyres/aero/damage modelling.  Some are very new announcements, e.g. most of the Audis, and haven't been started yet.  Some of them may be held back for themed DLC packs, e.g. some historic cars and tracks - although this is purely supposition on my part, as the DLC plan hasn't been released yet, and SMS have been known to surprise us with near-completed cars and tracks out of the blue.

 

(There's still hope that cars from other marques will make it into the game before release.  The likes of Porsche and Ferrari appear to be out of reach, due to restrictive agreements those manufacturers have with Microsoft and Electronic Arts respectively.  The most common requests seem to be for various Aston, Nissan and Chevrolet road and race cars.  However, due to the apparently-delicate nature of license negotiations, we don't have a clue what licenses SMS are actually seeking, let alone which they may be close to getting agreement on.)

 

A lot of this info is available at http://www.wmdportal.com/.

 

Ariel Atom 3 (2011)

Ariel Atom Mugen (2011)
Ariel Atom 500 V8 (2011)
Audi 90 IMSA GTO (1989)
Audi A1 Quattro (2012)
Audi R8 V10 Plus (2013)
Audi R8 LMP900 (2002)
Audi R18 TDI LMP1 (2011)
Audi R18 e-Tron Quattro (2014)
Audi R8 LMS Ultra GT3 (2013)
BAC Mono (2011)
Bentley Speed 8 LMGTP (2003)
Bentley Continental GT3 (2013)
BMW 1M Coupé E82 (2012)
BMW 320 Turbo Group 5 (1978)
BMW 320TC BTCC (2012)
BMW 328 Touring Coupe (1940)
BMW F1.08 (2008)
BMW M1 Procar (1981)
BMW M3 E30 GroupA (1991)
BMW M3 E92 GT (2012)
BMW M3 E92 GT4 (2012)
BMW V12 LMR (1999)
BMW Z4 GT3 (2012)
Caterham Classic 
Caterham Superlight R500 
Caterham SP/300.R 
Ford Escort RS1600 (1972)
Ford Falcon FG V8 Supercar (2013)
Ford Focus RS (2009)
Ford Focus ST BTCC (2012)
Ford Fusion NASCAR (2012)
Ford GT40 MkIV (1967)
Ford Mustang 2+2 Fastback (1966)
Ford Mustang Boss 302 R1 
Ford Mustang Cobra SCCA Trans Am (1997)
Ford Mustang GT (2015)
Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth GroupA (1998)
Ford Zakspeed Capri Group5 (1980)
Formula 1 (SMS/Generic)
Formula 2 (SMS/Generic)
Formula 3 (SMS/Generic)
Formula Gulf FG1000 (SMS/Generic)
Formula Ford (SMS/Generic)
Ginetta G40 Junior 
Ginetta G50
Ginetta G55 GT3 
Gumpert Apollo Sport (2011)
Lotus 25 (1962)
Lotus 38 (1965)
Lotus 40 (1965)
Lotus 49 Cosworth (1967)
Lotus 49C Cosworth (1970)
Lotus 51 (1967)
Lotus 56 (1968)
Lotus 72D Cosworth (1972)
Lotus 78 Cosworth (1977)
Lotus 98T Renault Turbo (1986)
McLaren F1 (1994)
McLaren F1 GTR (1997)
McLaren P1 (2013)
McLaren MP4-12C (2013)
McLaren MP4-12C GT3 (2013)
Mercedes-AMG C-Class Coupe DTM (2013)
Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evolution2 DTM (1991)
Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.8 AMG "Rote Sau" (1971)
Mercedes-Benz 300SL W194 (1952)
Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG (2013)
Mercedes-Benz CLK-LM (1998)
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG (2011)
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 (2012)
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X FQ-400 (2012)
Oreca O3 LMP2
Pagani Huayra (2012)
Pagani Zonda Cinque Roadster (2009)
Pagani Zonda R (2012)
Palmer Jaguar JPLM (2011)
Radical SR3 RS
Radical SR8 RX
Radical RXC Turbo
Renault Alpine A442B (1978)
Renault Alpine A450 (2013)
Renault Clio IV RS Cup (2013)
Renault Megane RS (2014)
Renault Laguna BTCC (1999)
Renault Mégane Trophy II (2009)
Ruf CTR "Yellowbird" (1987)
Ruf CTR3 (2012)
Ruf RGT-8 (2013)
Ruf Rt 12R (2012)
Sauber C9 Mercedes (1989)


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#20 chunder27

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 21:24

As per usual you get the comment about "this title being in development"

 

It has been that way for nearly 2 years to be honest and the trotting out of this is getting very tired.

 

They made a bunch of money getting mugs like me to pay for Beta testing, and now for some reason are sitting on it despite having tie ins galore. They also split and alienated a lot of people int eh sim community with bullish interventison from the main man who banned people from forums, comments boards by the hundred oif they dare criticise his little baby.

 

Most people saw sense and just left it alone, but it will always have graphics loving fan boys. And I will agree it looks lovely and has sone nice touches, but it still plays bad, always has done unless you are prepared to mire through tons of stuff on forums to set everything up. And sadly I dont hvae that much patience when I can plug in a 5 years old gfame and get instant fun.  Sorry

 

Just release the damn thing already on where it was designed to be a console, it is basically a modded version of Shift 2 anyway, always has been.



#21 RogerGraham

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 02:36

Aah, I see where you're coming from   ;)

 

I'll reply to your comments.  Not for your benefit (since you've obviously already made up your mind) but for the benefit of others who haven't had the chance to be involved and might be misinformed by your post.

  • People are "trotting out" about "this title being in development" because... it is in development   :rotfl:  It's not "getting very tired"; the members who actually read the forums understand that development takes time, and doesn't finish just because someone wants it to.
  • Yes, it's been in development for "nearly 2 years to be honest".  (Thanks for your honesty!)  That's hardly surprising given that they had to start a lot of the game from scratch.  They don't have the rights to a lot of the work they did for the Shift series, because the IP for that belongs to Electronic Arts.  How long do you think it should take to build a game of this scope and complexity?
  • No-one "made a bunch of money getting mugs like" you to pay for beta testing.  You were offered the chance to voluntarily be involved in something no AAA developer has done before, i.e. to watch and participate in the development of a game from scratch.  From as little as €10, up to as much as you wanted to "invest".  That's €10 for what will turn out to be ~3 years of playing alpha builds, talking directly with the devs, requesting features and so on.  An absolute bargain.  And, that €10 will be deducted from the price of the game you buy when it's finished, making that contribution effectively free.  Every euro contributed (and then some) has gone into paying for the game.  Why do you feel the need to insinuate that they've somehow made off with the money?
  • When you say they "split and alienated the sim community" etc, I assume you're referring to studio head Ian Bell finally responding to repeated, unmoderated, inaccurate and trollish comments on the often-embarrassing Race Department forum. That's always the question with trolls; do you reply factually so that others aren't misled by their vitriol, or do you ignore them and hope that the majority of normal people see right through them? A question for the ages...   ;)
  • Haha, I see you've trotted out the old they "banned people .. by the hundred if they dare criticise his little baby"  :D   A few people (not hundreds) have been banned (and had their money refunded) for trolling and/or repetitive non-constructive criticism - what you might call idiocy.  Obviously, constructive criticism is welcomed on the forum - that's precisely what it's for!  Having thousands of members pointing out bugs and making suggestions for improvements is the whole point of the community involvement.  Having idiots trolling the forum is destructive and makes the forum a depressing place to visit, so fortunately for the rest of us the few such people have been banned.
  • You're of course entirely welcome to your opinion that "it still plays bad".  The proof will be in the pudding come November.
  • Yes, for some things, for some people, it's quite true that it helps to read through "tons of stuff on forums to set everything up".  That can be true for the FFB tweaker I referred to above, or which of the myriad graphics options will look and work best, and so on.  For example, for some people with some PCs and some wheels, the FFB feels great out of the box.  For some, it doesn't feel right, and investigating those issues helps the devs figure out what's going on with different combinations of PC/wheel/pedal/etc.  That's the joy (and pain) of participating in the actual daily development of the game. But it really isn't that much of an effort.  But as I said, some people simply cannot wrap their head around the fact that (gasp!) it's still (really, truly!) in development, with all that implies.
  • Of course a five-year-old game is "finished" versus this being "in development"; that's the whole point of being allowed to watch the development process!  Again, some people really do have difficulty with the idea that they're being allowed to see the actual development process for a game, warts and all, and struggle to cope with the fact that what they're playing each night is not a finished game.  That's fine, I guess it's best for those people to wait for November when the game is due for release.  There's no need to go on other forums and slag the game off in the meantime, but to each their own.
  • They can't "just release the damn thing already", because, guess what.. it's in development!  It'll be released in November, all going well.  
  • It's not "designed to be [on] a console".  It's designed to be on pretty much every device that's powerful enough to run it, i.e. PC, PS/4, XBox One, WiiU and SteamOS.  Designing and building their engine to be able to run the game across five different environments is a non-trivial exercise.
  • If you think this is a "modded version of Shift 2 anyway, always has been", then I can't help you.  It appears that (a) you haven't been reading the forums at all, and (b) you haven't really driven it very much.  The most important part of the physics, i.e. the tyre model, is completely new and built from scratch, having no relation to the Shift tyre models and being vastly more detailed.  The complexity of the tyre model is largely the reason they scrapped the PS/3 and XBox 360 and moved to PS/4 and XBox One.  The fact you can play at any time of day or night in any part of the world with correct sun/moon/weather is all new.  The weather system with rain and lightning/thunder and drying lines and track rubber buildup is all new.   All of the cars and tracks and built from scratch.  I could list a thousand things here, but you get the idea.  You really should read the forums  :drunk:

I do wonder why people invest time coming to forums to bash games.  I can accept that some people may not like how the game drives, or may be daunted by the added layer of complexity of playing whilst it's still in development.  That's fine - the game and the privilege of participating the development process isn't for you - but no harm done.  So why slag it off to others?

 

Bloody hell.  I typed all that up, then thought to check your name on the pCARS forum.  I see that you were banned from the forum, apparently around Feb 2012?  That explains pretty much everything about your attitude and your posts here.  I should just delete everything else I've written and leave this paragraph, but I'll leave it for the benefit of others.


Edited by RogerGraham, 27 March 2014 - 08:17.


#22 Siddley

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 11:40

I don't want to fuel an argument, but I think you are making a pretty good case Graham. I'll leave it at that.

 

Taking a different tack, the car list ( thanks for that ) - it's got quite a lot of vehicles I'm interested in, but one thing that immediately springs to mind - a lot of the historic cars are 'orphans' in that there aren't other comparable cars in terms of age and performance for them to run against.

Nice to see all those Lotuses though  :) 

 

My focus is always older cars however and I don't pretend to be a typical race sim consumer. No one will be making any money pandering to my tastes... 

 

What is the AI like ? for me the AI cars are the biggest failing of all race sims. Psychotic little gits who will punt you off the track at a moments notice...



#23 RogerGraham

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:26

Yes, fair point about the "orphans".  There's a limit to how many cars they have time to model, and once you spread the budget of ~100 cars between the many available categories you can get to the stage where there's only one car in a specific category (e.g. 1940s road cars, recent entry-level touring cars, vintage stock cars etc).  But you're not alone in your desire for more historic cars!

 

There have been some heated forum discussions along the lines of "Should we attempt to max out all the cars in a small number of categories, or get a smaller number of cars in each of a larger number of categories"?  SMS have tended towards the latter route in support of the Career aspect of the game.  That enables you to progress from (say) karts through the various open wheel classes until you hit F1, or (say) going sideways into GT and LMP cars, with contract offers coming in based on your race results.

 

Licensing issues also play a huge part, because there are limits to how many cars they can license from each manufacturer, and certain other manufacturers are apparently just too hard or too expensive to get.  But presumably when Classic Team Lotus says you can license 10 of their cars, then you're going to say "Yes please!" even if some of them will end up as orphans for the time being!  :D

 

Funny you should ask about the AI!  It's undergoing a rewrite even as we speak.  The aim is to give the AI cars better "sight" of the other cars around them, to avoid exactly what you're referring to.  Apparently it's working quite well on internal dev builds, so hopefully we'll be able to try it out soon.  Fingers crossed that punting becomes a thing of the past...



#24 Siddley

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 20:23

I'm no programmer, but my gut feeling is that programming AI isn't easy. Even so, the rFactor AI are clueless and I can't think of any other sim where they are significantly better. The cars will reverse back onto the track after an off without regard to any traffic - that sort of behaviour at least should be easy to prevent. Shouldn't it ? :confused:

 

I have tamed my AI slightly by reducing their ability to brake, so they don't rear end me as much - but it's not that much of a solution because they tend to brake in the wrong place.
Even with other tweaking racing against them is a bit like the chariot race in Ben Hur...sometimes it's comical, like watching a 65 GP car clip a curb, fly into the air, complete a barrel roll, land on it's wheels and keep going like nothing happened. But mostly it's a pain in the backside.

So I have to applaud the developers for thinking about improved AI behaviour, I reckon the majority of people race offline so a decent AI should be a good selling point.



#25 chunder27

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 22:36

I am presuming you are one of the people involved in trolling forums to find people saying things bad about this "project" then?

 

Same old same old sadly.

 

I tried it, thought it was garbage and told them, they didn't like it so banned me from the forum. Fair enough the criticism was maybe OTT, but banned from the forum??  Are you kidding.

 

Then tried to ban from two others along with a handful of other people who were doing the same (trying it and realising it was poor), while also manipulating virtualr and nogrip into being PCARS friendly zones, thereby allowing PCARS news prime slot on threads etc. And also depriving other games of news space for free mods etc.  Oh and be serious please, I payed coz i love sim games I also love other game genres but rarely pay for meta's unless they are huge titles that will sell millions of copies and offer testers something in return. Thuis did and does neither.

 

Call me cynical but cmon.

 

Now to carry on with the normal discussion. I have played countless betas  and you call this an alpha ( and have done for 2 years).  Doing some research, most of those only take 6 months/a year to go to beta. Once the core code is written, then you start testing with things like improved graphics, control methods in beta. There you get all the feedback from either testers, or in this case paying guinea pigs to try and improve things. Usually this is done laregly behind closed doors, but we are supposed to feel speicla by being allowed to be involved, where lets face it unless you are a coder you avent a clue what to say or do.

 

Then in theory you try and sell it to someone, (hoping you do not incur the wrath of other coders as I think this form might have done maybe)  then you try and sell it.

 

Oh and forgive me the majority of opinion on real sim racing forums and discussion areas is that this is a console game, it is a plaything developed from Shift 2. Looks very pretty, but is and has never will be a sim.  Not my words dude, the words of just about every guy I have ever spoken to playing RF, RF2, Iracing, GSC, Assetto etc etc.

 

I believe you could turn it into one, but in all honesty why would you when there is more than enough content out there on other sims to cover the limited fanbase.


Edited by chunder27, 27 March 2014 - 22:40.


#26 RogerGraham

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 00:36

I am presuming you are one of the people involved in trolling forums to find people saying things bad about this "project" then?

 

I can only assume the irony is unintentional  :D



#27 RogerGraham

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 08:30

Just to counter the inaccuracies above, here's a simplified description of the development periods for Project CARS (noting that other dev studios may use slightly different definitions for alpha and beta):

 

  • During the development process, the game is in the pre-alpha period. This is when pretty much all the game features are written, and much of the content is prepared to some level of completeness.  This is the period we're coming to the end of now.
  • The alpha milestone signifies the end of the pre-alpha period, and means "feature complete", i.e. the game features are completed, ready for bug testing and polishing. Target is mid April.  (Content is a mixed bag at this stage; some cars and tracks are virtually complete, whilst others may have only just been started.)

 

Note: this is why you hear references to pCARS being "pre-alpha", because (drum roll...) it is still pre-alpha.  Many people get confused here, because some of the features and content are apparently already complete, and therefore they think the game as a whole must therefore be past the alpha milestone.  But real development doesn't magically converge such that every single feature and piece of content is ready on the same day.

 

  • After the alpha milestone, there's an alpha period leading up to the beta milestone, where all the content (cars and tracks) is finished.  Some features may also be tweaked as required during this period.
  • The beta milestone signifies the end of the alpha period, and means "content complete", i.e. the cars and tracks content are completed, ready for bug testing and polishing.  Target is mid July

 

Note: reference to needing "6 months/a year" to get to beta stage for a game of this complexity, that has been started basically from scratch, is simply laughable.

 

  • After the beta milestone, there's a beta period of testing, QA and bug-removal.  Then the game is submitted to for first-party approval (e.g. Sony and Microsoft). Finally, the game is sent to manufacturing.  Target release date is late 2014.


#28 chunder27

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 12:08

So you are saying that proper game companies like Naughty Dog or Valve would take 2 years to pre alpha a game are you? I seriously doubt that and know for a fact the process is far quicker, no company can waste that much time on R+D or they would have no money left!  You can't expect a CeO to sit there and fund that much research and tens of folk sitting there working for upwards of 20-40 grand a year with no return. It just wont happen in most cases. Especially for a sim that will not return anything like the returns an MMO or FPS would.

 

They would not make any money really.

 

You are very obviously involved in some way, so off you go.

 

Oh and as usual trolling gets mistaken with discussion. I have simply given my experience of the game and lent further weight to the arguments. If you look elsewhere, there is a lot of negative feedback about this game, even now. there is with every game or thing released, but this one especially. I am not alone and that should be the thing taken away form this.

 

Compared to other title like RF2 or Asseto Corsa, where the feedback is generally fair but still has negative elements to it, PCars and WMD have consistently had more negative feedback far more than others. there simply has to be a reason for that I am afraid. That is fact.



#29 RogerGraham

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 10:29

So you are saying that proper game companies like Naughty Dog or Valve would take 2 years to pre alpha a game are you? I seriously doubt that and know for a fact the process is far quicker, no company can waste that much time on R+D or they would have no money left!  You can't expect a CeO to sit there and fund that much research and tens of folk sitting there working for upwards of 20-40 grand a year with no return. It just wont happen in most cases. Especially for a sim that will not return anything like the returns an MMO or FPS would.

 

They would not make any money really.

 

This is wrong.  :down:

 

Mate, you can "doubt" all you like, and assert that "you know for a fact" - but you're wrong.  You obviously have no idea how the industry works (and that's fine, I probably have no idea how whatever industry you're in works), but then why go and assert as facts things that you obviously have no knowledge of?  Does it make you feel better?  Even stranger, you made that uninformed statement in response to my simple factual post about how SMS defines each phase of the project.  It's bizarre.

The one bit you got right is that it takes a lot of money to build an AAA game over a long period of time (unless you're just updating an existing game with new content and a few tweaked features etc).  That's why devs who aren't already loaded from previous smash hits have publishers help fund their game.  The problem with that is that the publishers can then have final say on how the game ends up, putting the devs in a position where they might not be able to build the game they want to build.  And that's exactly why SMS went the crowd-funded route for Project CARS; they get the funding they need without the shackles.  And as a massive side-benefit, they get continual bug identification across a huge range of PCs and wheels/pedals/controllers, requests for features and tweaks that they wouldn't otherwise have thought of, and input on 50-50 decisions from the very people who will be buying the game.  It's a win-win.

 

 

They would not make any money really.

 

This is wrong, again. :down:

 

Hopefully you'll feel better knowing that SMS only need to sell a few hundred thousand copies for everyone to get their money back.  Anything after that is profit for SMS and the community members.

 

 

You are very obviously involved in some way, so off you go.

 

Wow, you're right this time!  :rotfl: 

Yes, I am involved in some way.  I am involved in the same way you were, as someone who joined WMD for the fantastic privilege of being able to watch the development of an AAA multi-platform game, and help with bugs fixes, feature requests, liveries and so on and on.

 

Regardless of what you think of the game itself, it's a shame that you trolled yourself off the forum so that you can no longer enjoy being part of this process.

 

 

Oh and as usual trolling gets mistaken with discussion. I have simply given my experience of the game and lent further weight to the arguments. If you look elsewhere, there is a lot of negative feedback about this game, even now. there is with every game or thing released, but this one especially. I am not alone and that should be the thing taken away form this.

 

 

Thanks, I have looked elsewhere.  What I see are sensible discussions broken up by repetitive trolls sprouting uninformed opinions, making those forums depressing places to visit.  As with the Project CARS forums, constructive criticism is welcome, useful and desired.  What's not welcome is shrill negative claims without any facts to back up.  You yourself are a case in point; you certainly haven't "lent further weight to the arguments" here, although I wonder if you actually think you have.

 

 

Compared to other title like RF2 or Asseto Corsa, where the feedback is generally fair but still has negative elements to it, PCars and WMD have consistently had more negative feedback far more than others. there simply has to be a reason for that I am afraid. That is fact.

 

As I said earlier, you're confusing repeated trolling from a relative minority of posters who sprout their vitriol over and over and over and over, with the "fact" (!) that there is far more negative feedback.  But now that I understand that your goal is simply to repeat your opinion that Project CARS is shite without any supporting evidence, I can understand that you're only to happy to interpret things that way.

 

I asked a rhetorical question about trolls earlier, but now I'll ask you directly since you've identified yourself as one.  I can understand that you're unhappy about being banned from the forums and missing out on the unique experience of watching game development from the inside.  I can understand that you might actually dislike the physics in Project CARS, although we'll never know why, since you you never state what you don't like about which specific builds. But even so: why do you spend your (presumably valuable) time coming to forums to tell other people that you think the game is shite?  Why not do something positive and constructive with your time instead?  It makes absolutely no sense to me, so I'd be interested to hear why you do it, and who you think will benefit from it.



#30 chunder27

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:33

Believe me Roger I was not disappointed at all.  Just fascinated in theri approach

 

and for your info I tried to get back in and cant download anything at all, no builds, nothing. Cant really see the point in continually sending out PR if noone can realy get invovled anymore. I tried a few versions when as a basc member you could still download and have a play, but you cant seem to anymore.

 

Regarding comments.  Forums are like this. Some folk only ever say positive things. Some folk will have a pop if they feel they should.

 

I will admit I more than likely bitch more than praise!  But, it is in the belief that some people just sit here and read without ever posting.

 

Most will jst think that bloke just doesnt know what he is on about, or never says anything good. But from the amount of likes I get notified of every day a lot of folk do seem to agree. I would imagine just as many don't. But it is a forum open for discussion. You happen to thnk this "game" is the bees knees or will be.

 

I just tried it, didnt like it, tlkd a few people and got an interesting reaction from Mr Bell and various others, then found out they were doing the same with countless other people who dared to speak out about things they didnt like about the game.

 

I find that approach interesting to say the least, as do a few folk who talk about these things.

 

I cant try it now for some reason despite being a basic member, cant even get it thru Steam. So not sure whats going on.

 

PS you seem a little obsessed with trolls, are you by chance an imp or hobbit or something? 



#31 RogerGraham

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:53

Haha, no imps or hobbits here :)  As I said earlier, this is the first time I've ever posted about the game outside WMD.  Since "outsiders" can't get access to the game or forum, I thought it was worthwhile correcting some errors of fact, and because other readers might be interested in some details on how the whole thing works.

 

As I said earlier, I'm not going to try to dissuade anyone from their opinion that the game is no good, as everyone's entitled to their own opinion (although some specifics on why they think it's no good would be helpful for anyone else reading the criticism).  Likewise, there's little point me trying to convince people that it's the bees knees, since they can't try it for themselves yet.  It's an unusual situation, but an interesting one.  We'll just have to wait for November, then everyone can judge for themselves.  Hopefully the shipping game will turn out to be the best, or among the best, racing sims; the more the merrier!



#32 chunder27

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 13:04

Lol, I thnk you answered a few questions there!



#33 RogerGraham

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 13:25

Hmm, reading comprehension fail?  Unlike fanboys/trolls/etc, I was deliberately being neutral for the benefit of people who can't play the game yet.  You're taking it the wrong way.  



#34 Siddley

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 21:19

I don't want to drag this off topic, but the picture in your avatar Chunder - who and what is that bike ?



#35 chunder27

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 17:02

Picture is of Kenny Roberts on the TZ700 flat track bike he rode to in his words his "best ever win".

 

Was at  Indy Mile in 70's sometime, and the bike has soe much power, but he managed to speak it over the line.

 

He rode it again a few years ago at Indy, and was on it, whack it into youtube and realise how much todays guys are pussies!!

 

King Kenny is a true legend, a much overused word.



#36 Siddley

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 21:59

I knew it was a Yam from the livery, but it didn't look like a TZ to me - I thought it was a 4 stroke, maybe an XS twin.

 

What did he say about the TZ ? " They don't pay me enough to ride this thing " :)

Yep, a true legend.



#37 chunder27

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:44

If you like it has 4 expansion chambers tucked under the front of the motor I think. But you could be right, I just thought it was a great picture.

 

Also, Kenny had a simple device to help with traction, he had a wire that unplugged a lead in the corners! 



#38 chunder27

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 17:10

Taken directly from the new Project cars website

 

Project cars runs on our own Madness engine, that was designed specifically for next generation consoles!

 

Says all it needs to say really



#39 RogerGraham

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 05:51

Haha, I think it says more about you and your sad trolling efforts  :rotfl:

 

For everyone else reading, he has quoted (incorrectly and disingenuously) from the game website which has just been published.



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#40 chunder27

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 09:51

The quote is word for word.

 

And you really do need to work out what is the differnce between fan boy, troll and discussion.

 

I urge you



#41 RogerGraham

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:58

:rotfl:



#42 Skinnyguy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:56

I was far from impressed by some old builds I checked long ago, but most of what I´ve seen recently looks stunning. It´s easy to get a bad impression from some footage where a not-too-good driver is trundling around, or when someone plays with bad wheel settings. But all I´ve seen from good drivers with good settings looks to handle pretty well... of course you never know until you get behind the wheel, but at least everything you see on screen seems to make sense. Like here:

 

 

And it´s a pretty old build too, so I´m sure it´s much better now. Regarding AI, forget about it being competitive. Forget about it being even decent. It never is in any game.



#43 chunder27

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 15:54

OK after some issues with an install

 

Managed to get it working and as above poster comments, the little bit I played in a FF1600 type car was very good.

 

FFB is much improved, feel was far, far better than it was in the past. In fact a totally differnet game really to what I played before, about 6 months ago.

 

So I will eat a small slice of humble pie right now

 

I hope some of the other cars and features are as good as this was, as that little car was fun.

 

Only had a junior membership as I recall, so very limited access, but as I say, night and day difference. 



#44 pRy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 16:41

And it´s a pretty old build too, so I´m sure it´s much better now. Regarding AI, forget about it being competitive. Forget about it being even decent. It never is in any game.

 

Wow. I'm not sure what it is.. if it's something to do with motion blur or just the quality of the engine but that looks close to real life photo realistic. Impressive stuff.



#45 MaGiK

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 20:40

Video i did some time ago.



#46 pRy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 22:24

Long video showcasing the sound:

 

 

It's looking quite special. 



#47 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 13:59

Wow. I'm not sure what it is.. if it's something to do with motion blur or just the quality of the engine but that looks close to real life photo realistic. Impressive stuff.

 

And the driving looks solid too.

 

I can´t wait to get a game like this finally to hit the consoles. Games like the F1 series have made huge progress with the balance of the cars and have pretty good models for fuel weight and tyre degradation, but they are still lightyears behind regarding suspension and tyre reactions to curbs and bumps. In these games you can abuse he tracks like a maniac in places where an actual car would get airborne if you cut that much.

 

PS: What I saw in that sound video in the 3:00 mark left me a bit downbeat too about Pcars approach to track limits physics...


Edited by Skinnyguy, 04 April 2014 - 14:03.


#48 Red17

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 14:36

The recent build has replaced the fictional Asano with an Audi license, so the R18 is officialy in. Renault has been in for a while now too, so im secretly hoping they bring in an Alpine.

Too bad you can't recreate a modern 3 class WEC race because all the necessary cars are there (P1, P2, GT), but the developers threw some other P1 cars to keep the R18 company. The Lotus lineup is very strong with 4 iconic Formula 1 cars with only the 72 lacking the classic livery. I can't think of many more F1 Lotuses to add except for the winged incarnations of the 49 or maybe the 88 . Perhaps it's time for one of the Indycar Lotuses.



#49 RogerGraham

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 14:55

I can't think of many more F1 Lotuses to add except for the winged incarnations of the 49 or maybe the 88 . Perhaps it's time for one of the Indycar Lotuses.

 

You're in luck!  The ten licensed Lotuses include the winged 49C and the Indy 38 and 56.  They're not available yet, so I'm not sure whether they're planned for the initial release or will come out post-release.



#50 chunder27

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 19:31

Well I guess someone from WMD has been reading this as I got banned again today

 

I had been playing the version I had quite happily after trying it earlier,

 

So somehow they have found out form someone on here or elsewhere what my name is and removed me from the game.

 

I wonder who it might be that might have suggested my name then...

 

I would seriously have thought people had beter things to do with their time, I really would.