Its obviously one of the best overtaking moves ever, especially after what happened on the previous lap. Classic circuit when they weren't flat through Eau Rouge, just to put the icing on the cake. Its amazing how fast they go past Zonta and a good job he didn't stray off his line.
Well, it's just hakkinen getting past Schumacher on a straight.
Never really understood why this is supposed to be the "best" overtaking move, it may look pretty, but in the end of the day this hasnt had much to do with driver skill.
it's one of the most overrated overtaking moves.
it was just that zontas presence meant Schumacher cant block like a prick like he did the lap before and thus it enabled hakkinen to go past.
Well, it's just hakkinen getting past Schumacher on a straight.
it was just that zontas presence meant Schumacher cant block like a prick like he did the lap before and thus it enabled hakkinen to go past.
Well...er...ummm...Ya, basically.
Schumi was a prick the previous lap - and Mika decided to use Zonta as a shied, in a way.
There have been other, more ballsy or on-the-limit overtakes in the past - but this one was "sweet" for Mika simply because Shuey had been a prick the lap prior.
PS
I hope Michael pulls through this terrible situation that he's in. Best wishes to his family during this trying time.
Well, it's just hakkinen getting past Schumacher on a straight.
Never really understood why this is supposed to be the "best" overtaking move, it may look pretty, but in the end of the day this hasnt had much to do with driver skill.
it's one of the most overrated overtaking moves.
it was just that zontas presence meant Schumacher cant block like a prick like he did the lap before and thus it enabled hakkinen to go past.
He took Eau Rouge flat out , something nobody else had done , in the race anyway.
I hope Michael pulls through this terrible situation that he's in. Best wishes to his family during this trying time.
First of all, I echo those sentiments about Michael but lets be honest, he was no saint on the track and to suggest that its just Mikka passing Michael on a straight is I think insulting to Mikka. He had to be faster than Michael through Eau Rouge, to get the run on Michael up the Kemmel Straight. The first time he tries it, he gets the infamous Schumi chop. Second time round he's got the balls to do it again and when you watch the in car footage, he can't really see Zonta until Michael moves left. Jinks right and is past Zonta in a flash and therefore the corner at Les Combes. Its the move, the track, the footage and not least the bottle that makes it special.
Well, I think the temperature and the weather and the track conditions were changing.
Mika's McLaren suffered mid race, if I recall - and then he started to eat into the Ferrari's lead once the weather turned again.
So, it was only a matter of time before Mika made it work...it's just that Mika's job was made harder by Shuey being a real prick in those days. Schumi was never going to be penalized for dangerous driving during that era.
Ferrari hadn't won a title since Scheckter (actually since 1983) and the FIA was known to look the other way when it came to Ferrari those days.
Hats off to Mika, nonetheless.
Also, it was a good thing that Zonta was shocked into remaining straight. Had Zonta moved his B.A.R.'s line, there would have likely been the mother-and-father of nasty accidents given those speeds.
Schumi was a prick the previous lap - and Mika decided to use Zonta as a shied, in a way.
There have been other, more ballsy or on-the-limit overtakes in the past - but this one was "sweet" for Mika simply because Shuey had been a prick the lap prior.
I'm with beute, Michael made a mistake in going to the left of Zonta, it literally gave Mika the inside line approaching Les Combes. Obviously its easy for me to sit here and say it now but Michael really should have gone to the right of Zonta, he would've had the inside line and could've blocked Mika again.
It wasn't a great move, it was handed to him on a plate, but obviously i'm in the minority in thinking this!
Well, it's just hakkinen getting past Schumacher on a straight.
Never really understood why this is supposed to be the "best" overtaking move, it may look pretty, but in the end of the day this hasnt had much to do with driver skill.
it's one of the most overrated overtaking moves.
it was just that zontas presence meant Schumacher cant block like a prick like he did the lap before and thus it enabled hakkinen to go past.
up until that point it was probably jaw dropping.. then came Montoya and the bar was raised for overtaking maneuvers..
Eddie Irvine double overtaking manouver on the outside in esses section at Suzuka in 1997 - one of the best manouvers I've ever seen in any racing series. Unfortunately, can't find a video with it.
I agree that overtaking at the end of Kemmel is nothing special per se, but what was special in that case was Hakkinen's split second decision to dive on the inside of the backmarker. Looking at it from Zonta's perspective shows you how "wtf just happend" the moment was.
Probably not the best ever that i've seen but since i've recently stumbled across it i'll post it, a Formula Vee race at Sandown (Australia, i think! ) started last, finished first. Really tense final lap too...
In the last two years raikkonen produced the nicest/best overtakes imho.
partly because the car or Kimis setup were just not good for overtaking people on the straights.
He often had find another way.
(extreme example would be spa 2012 where he reached the limiter almost before the DRS activation zone)
The mentioned 2012 spa overtake, look at di resta almost overtaking Kimi right after Schumacher repassed.
some more
another great move, this time by vettel
Love it how people claim Webber was "cruising" or "saving fuel" or whatever when you can clearly see that that is just made up.
Vettel disregarded the team order, but that's it.
the battle was legitimate and fair, a cruising or fuel saving webber would have been food the very second Vettel opens DRS, but that didnt happen, it was so damn close, and both of them were on the edge there.
saving fuel is what Hamilton did and the result was that rosberg was already past/alongside him in the first DRS zone, Vettel had to take the DRS advantage TWICE and just barely got alongside.
those are just a few I remembered from the last 2 years.
Im sure there is a lot more stuff from many different drivers, just cant be bothered to go on a full youtube exploration just yet.
Well, it's just hakkinen getting past Schumacher on a straight.
Never really understood why this is supposed to be the "best" overtaking move, it may look pretty, but in the end of the day this hasnt had much to do with driver skill.
it's one of the most overrated overtaking moves.
it was just that zontas presence meant Schumacher cant block like a prick like he did the lap before and thus it enabled hakkinen to go past.
The circumstances in the championship, the way Michael slammed the door shut and nearly put Mika off at the very same spot the lap before, and just the absolute commitment the previous 3 laps to catch up and set up the pass attributes to the entire overtake, it was simply outstanding. Not to mention he was on the dirty line that was still damp.
Another one that was just completely unexpected and again was performed on Michael was Montoya's overtake around the outside at the bus stop in 2004. But then, there are many, but for me it is Mika's pass on Michael at Spa.
Never really understood why this is supposed to be the "best" overtaking move, it may look pretty, but in the end of the day this hasnt had much to do with driver skill.
That overtake required a lot of skill.
Hakkinen was working on making one for a few laps. At some point he realised that waiting for Schumacher to make an error and doing flawless laps by himself won't give him much chance for a win, so he decided to take a risk and keep full throttle at Eau Rouge. During the first attack Schumacher made his position very clear by very agressively blocking Hakkinen and touching his front wing endplate at 300+km/h. During the second attack Schumacher made a tactical error by going on the left side, probably because he expected Zonta to end up even further up on the right side and thus effectively bloking Hakkinen's path + right side of the track wasn't so dry at that point in time and it's less grippy due to not being primary racing line. Schumacher also underestimated Hakkinen's tactical skill and bravery. Hakkinen also took another bit of risk by taking tighter side of the track around Zonta and managed to keep his car supremely stable at the tricky braking point with higher top speed then Schumacher and with less track grip.
What a supreme move that was!
There was an interview with Hakkinen where he was talking about this move in detail. Can't find it anymore.
Love it how people claim Webber was "cruising" or "saving fuel" or whatever when you can clearly see that that is just made up.
Vettel disregarded the team order, but that's it.
the battle was legitimate and fair, a cruising or fuel saving webber would have been food the very second Vettel opens DRS, but that didnt happen, it was so damn close, and both of them were on the edge there.
saving fuel is what Hamilton did and the result was that rosberg was already past/alongside him in the first DRS zone, Vettel had to take the DRS advantage TWICE and just barely got alongside.
Thanks for sharing. Was probably the best example of clean hard racing of the modern era and really had me on the edge of my seat. Vettel had some serious balls going for inside on the pit straight up against the wall into T1 before the final sequence that ended in him getting past. The corner where he finally makes it stick you have to give Webber some serious credit for not running Seb wide as has happened numerous times over the last few years without punishment as the car on the inside has "the line" which is total bullshit IMO. If someone has got alongside you at corner entry like Seb did here you are entitled to drive around the outside and shouldn't be expected to be pushed off. I bet in hindsight Webber kicks himself when he watches that and wish he'd ran him off, he'd have probably got away with it given the precedents in 2013 alone.
That said though it's clear that without DRS and KERS that Webber could have in all likelihood have held Vettel off. You really need to see these longer periods of on board without being talked over to see the impact it has had. Vettel obviously had the edge on Webber, especially braking into the tighter corners where he always makes the apex and gains time but he needs the overtaking aids to make a move stick. People criticize them but I truly believe they have made racing better. It used to be the case you had to be 2-3s faster to even think about staging a pass, now someone who is a 0.5s faster can catch and pass someone. F1 aero is so advanced it needs this to make racing as we want to seeit, racing like this, possible.
KERS saved Vettel there, only with DRS he couldn't do it. He used it very tactically by the way but it still makes it very clear that DRS is an overpowered tool combined with KERS. That's why I can barely any overtake between 2011 and 2013 seriously inside the DRS zones.
I remember Hakkinen saying about that 2000 Spa pass that he just had to go Eau Rouge flat out which was something he wasn't even sure if it was possible in the race. Mika also said that Zonta most likely had to change his underwear after the race... There was funny stories in that interview about battles with Schumi.
Thanks for sharing. Was probably the best example of clean hard racing of the modern era and really had me on the edge of my seat. Vettel had some serious balls going for inside on the pit straight up against the wall into T1 before the final sequence that ended in him getting past. The corner where he finally makes it stick you have to give Webber some serious credit for not running Seb wide as has happened numerous times over the last few years without punishment as the car on the inside has "the line" which is total bullshit IMO. If someone has got alongside you at corner entry like Seb did here you are entitled to drive around the outside and shouldn't be expected to be pushed off. I bet in hindsight Webber kicks himself when he watches that and wish he'd ran him off, he'd have probably got away with it given the precedents in 2013 alone.
That said though it's clear that without DRS and KERS that Webber could have in all likelihood have held Vettel off. You really need to see these longer periods of on board without being talked over to see the impact it has had. Vettel obviously had the edge on Webber, especially braking into the tighter corners where he always makes the apex and gains time but he needs the overtaking aids to make a move stick. People criticize them but I truly believe they have made racing better. It used to be the case you had to be 2-3s faster to even think about staging a pass, now someone who is a 0.5s faster can catch and pass someone. F1 aero is so advanced it needs this to make racing as we want to seeit, racing like this, possible.
That final part of their battle always interested me. It showed why Vettel is so intelligent in his fights on track.
The previous time he was on the outside and tried the undercut which didn't work out as Mark got a good enough exit. The next time, in exactly the same situation, Mark anticipated Seb trying the undercut again so he delayed getting on the throttle by a fraction in an attempt to slow down Seb's momentum for the undercut. Seb was already one step ahead, he realised the undercut wasn't going to work and anticipated Mark trying to defend from the undercut so he went to and stayed on the outside, making sure he got the best exit possible. All of the above is why Seb just drove away from Mark on the way out of that corner and Mark didn't even have the chance to run Seb off the road.
Newey/Horner et al have said numerous times Seb is a fast learner, Malaysia was a great example of that in my opinion.
I don't believe Webber was taking it easy. If he was fast enough he had a few laps left to take the place back and got nowhere near. I think Mark's a great guy and yes, Seb was a douche for ignoring the team, especially if Marks engine was turned down, but as an isolated scrap for the lead it was amazing wheel to wheel racing.
Thanks for sharing. Was probably the best example of clean hard racing of the modern era
Webber´s chop ending the main straight was stoopid. If he wanted the inside line he should have defended tighter earlier, not waited until someone poked the nse to give a further squeeze.
If someone manages to find a video with the Montoya-Barrichello fight on Suzuka 2001 that was good stuff.
Hakkinen was working on making one for a few laps. At some point he realised that waiting for Schumacher to make an error and doing flawless laps by himself won't give him much chance for a win, so he decided to take a risk and keep full throttle at Eau Rouge. During the first attack Schumacher made his position very clear by very agressively blocking Hakkinen and touching his front wing endplate at 300+km/h. During the second attack Schumacher made a tactical error by going on the left side, probably because he expected Zonta to end up even further up on the right side and thus effectively bloking Hakkinen's path + right side of the track wasn't so dry at that point in time and it's less grippy due to not being primary racing line. Schumacher also underestimated Hakkinen's tactical skill and bravery. Hakkinen also took another bit of risk by taking tighter side of the track around Zonta and managed to keep his car supremely stable at the tricky braking point with higher top speed then Schumacher and with less track grip.
What a supreme move that was!
There was an interview with Hakkinen where he was talking about this move in detail. Can't find it anymore.
Eddie Irvine double overtaking manouver on the outside in esses section at Suzuka in 1997 - one of the best manouvers I've ever seen in any racing series. Unfortunately, can't find a video with it.
In this video they miss it initially by showing a replay of the start, but the replay of the overtake starts at around 6:55
Well, I think the temperature and the weather and the track conditions were changing.
Mika's McLaren suffered mid race, if I recall - and then he started to eat into the Ferrari's lead once the weather turned again.
So, it was only a matter of time before Mika made it work...it's just that Mika's job was made harder by Shuey being a real prick in those days. Schumi was never going to be penalized for dangerous driving during that era.
Ferrari hadn't won a title since Scheckter (actually since 1983) and the FIA was known to look the other way when it came to Ferrari those days.
Hats off to Mika, nonetheless.
Also, it was a good thing that Zonta was shocked into remaining straight. Had Zonta moved his B.A.R.'s line, there would have likely been the mother-and-father of nasty accidents given those speeds.
Yeah, it was a nice move because of the presence of Zonta, but it was kind of inevitable at that point of the race that Mika would pass Michael. If not that lap, then certainly the next one. The McLaren was MUCH faster at that point in the race (Mika caught up to Michael at a rate of about a second or two per lap). It looked spectacular, but I never understood why people claimed it was an example of awesome racing skill. Mika himself said: "After my second pit stop I was closing on Schumacher and tried to get past him at the end of the straight but that didn't work. However I was much quicker coming out of La Source. I would probably have been close enough coming up the hill to overtake him anyway but because of the backmarker I got an additional tow and was able to go past and pull away. "
Eddie Irvine double overtaking manouver on the outside in esses section at Suzuka in 1997 - one of the best manouvers I've ever seen in any racing series. Unfortunately, can't find a video with it.
Very similar to Alonso in Catalunya this year at the start overtaking kimi and lewis on the outside.
Well, except. Alonso was racing and Irvine was basically forced to pass people because JV was trying to stack up the field. He was several seconds off the pace and the entire field was bunched up. It was one of the weirder first 10 minutes of an F1 race.
I will put forward the Hamilton vs Vettel overtake in Austin 2012. It was a basic slipstream/DRS move but the way Hamilton got so close to rear ending Vettel down the straight as he pulled across made it entertaining for me. Yes I support Mclaren/Hamilton and that is definitely a factor in my choice. Also the fact it was an actual battle for the lead which is quite rare in recent times, against Vettel who is what I would consider the arch-enemy ;) Anyhow here it is for anyone who wants a reminder.
I will put forward the Hamilton vs Vettel overtake in Austin 2012. It was a basic slipstream/DRS move but the way Hamilton got so close to rear ending Vettel down the straight as he pulled across made it entertaining for me. Yes I support Mclaren/Hamilton and that is definitely a factor in my choice. Also the fact it was an actual battle for the lead which is quite rare in recent times, against Vettel who is what I would consider the arch-enemy ;) Anyhow here it is for anyone who wants a reminder.
All credit to Hamilton for seizing his only opportunity in that race, but the fact is that without Karthikeyan not getting out of the way, that pass would not have happened.
All credit to Hamilton for seizing his only opportunity in that race, but the fact is that without Karthikeyan not getting out of the way, that pass would not have happened.
I agree . I think Hamilton's best " in car " overtaking footage would be his diving up the inside of Kimi in the 2007 Italian grand prix. Yes Kimi was suffering from neck problems but he took so much extra speed through turn one while dancing the back end.
Alonso at the start of the 2011 spanish grand prix was just pure skill his reflexes went into overdrive. The way he hacked at his steering wheel during those overtakes surprised it didn't snap straight off.
All credit to Hamilton for seizing his only opportunity in that race, but the fact is that without Karthikeyan not getting out of the way, that pass would not have happened.
Yeah I kinda agree as well, but while it didn't seem likely, he may have still got passed him without Vettel being held up either then or at a later stage.