2243 replies to this topic

[Andy35]

The gap between Lotus and Redbull on number of laps done this test is slowly increasing.   

 

 

 

Andy

[Ferras]

How long before Christian Horner asks to return to last years engines?

To be fair, I do believe burning/explosive engines are more dangerous than the tyres from last year. And being honest, Renault powered engines are not the only ones with this problems.

[aray]

if even after this RB-Renault turns out to be quickest package in Oz,i will lose all hopes..

[Ferrari2183]

At the moment Williams have made the move of the year : drop Renault engine for Mercedes one. While Toro Rosso....

Lol. Great stuff.

[ZuTiMa]

Mercedes engines, 218 laps (incl the 4 fastest)

Ferrari engines, 97 laps

Renault engines, 43 laps, 30 timed...

 

Interessting stat but how many cars were adding to total laps for each?

[Ferrari2183]

If the Renault engine did turn out to be either horribly unreliable or underpowered, what would be done? Would it essentially be tough luck for the Renault teams or would Renault be allowed to work on the engine until it's up to standard?

They will be allowed to work on the reliability but cannot introduce performance parts after homologation.

[juicy sushi]

Very ominous for Renault teams, Mercedes and Ferrari seem to have a much better grasp on things.  Particularly intimidating is how the Mercedes-powered teams seem to be able to do long stints with little sign of difficulty.  While others are panicking over getting basic functionality, they're able to move on to set-up and development work.

 

At this point it looks like McLaren vs. Ferrari vs. Williams vs. Mercedes for the Championship.  Which, if proving to be the case, could make for some very fascinating and "Hollywood"-style comeback story lines. 

[swerved]

FROM: Rob.White@RenaultSportF1
TO: Adrian.Newey@RedBull
SUBJECT: Re: Your ****ing turbo-charged smoke bombs!

Hi Adrian,

You seem a little touchy today.

I assure you we at Renault are taking the situation very seriously. We worked all morning, from coffee right through to lunchtime, to find a solution.
One of the young engineers here has come up with a temporary fix to allow you to get some laps in. I will describe the process:
1. Disconnect the existing powertrain where it meets the differential.
2. Remove two crankshafts from opposing cylinders (which specific cylinders does not matter).
3. Fabricate a driveshaft to extend the distance from the differential to the front of the cockpit. We recommend a dress rail or curtain rail or maybe a fencepost from the circuit perimeter.
4. Weld the two crankshafts to the driveshaft and to the brake and throttle pedals.
5. Instruct driver to actuate drivetrain via alternate depression of the pedals.

Hope this is satisfactory,

Rob

p.s. I have been told that you are flying out to see me. Don't bother, I will be out of the office on urgent business until, oh about March probably.

 

FROM : Adrian.Newey@RedBull

TO:       Rob.White@RenaultSportF1

 

Why do you leave such huge gaps between paragraphs Rob ? 

[David1976]

Worrying times for the Renault crew. With all three teams struggling to put in more than a couple of laps, they are in serious danger of falling badly behind the Merc and Ferrari powered cars.

 

Maybe Lotus aren't so screwed from missing the first test. They've saved a fair amount of money from not flying out to Jerez for the week, and if they manage a shakedown day before Bahrain they'll still be at the same stage as the other Renault cars.

 

Unless they discover their own problems with installation.  Then they're screwed.

[AlexS]

Omnicorse.it says that Mercedes engines are already at 13000rpm

[Slackbladder]

They will be allowed to work on the reliability but cannot introduce performance parts after homologation.

 

Ah yes, that old 'reliability' chestnut...

[seahawk]

It is nice to see that in the top league of car racing, it is important again to be able to built an engine.  

[RubalSher]

They will be allowed to work on the reliability but cannot introduce performance parts after homologation.

 

Are you saying that you will be penalized in races if your engine/parts dont last a certain number of races but at the same time you are free to work on the engine to get rid of the problems that caused the engine/parts to be unreliable in the first place??

[David1976]

I would be very surprised if any of the engines have gone near 15,000 rpm yet.  There is still a lot of time to find yet.

[sennafan24]

if even after this RB-Renault turns out to be quickest package in Oz,i will lose all hopes..

I doubt they will, the past two years they have not won in OZ.

 

If you look at the past 4 years a pattern emerges, the longer the season goes on the stronger RB becomes. The past 2 seasons have highlighted that pattern greatly. I cannot write RB off based on that form. They have a driver in Seb who proved in 2013 he can score meaningful points when the car is not the best package

 

At the start of 2012 Seb struggled, and Alonso was able to pull out a modest points lead, in 2013 this hole in Seb's game was not present. This is backed up if you look at the results, if you compare how Seb performed against Webber at the start of 2012 with how Seb performed against Webber in 2013 you will see a difference.

 

Also, testing can be misleading early on. I remember reading that Ferrari were considered to be in big trouble in 2004, yet we all know how that turned out. RB and Renault could be in trouble, but lets at least wait until the end of the final test before we reach any firm conclusions. As was shown by Gary Anderson's analysis, even the experts change their opinion as testing goes on.

[Newbrray]

Ah yes, that old 'reliability' chestnut...

 

Ferrari and Mer better not fall for this crap. Domenicalli / Allison  and Paddy Lowe /Wolff better not agree to any reliability excuse. if they are allowed to develop on reliability grounds then it should be open to all manufacturers.

[Slartibartfast]

FROM 
: Adrian.Newey@RedBull
TO:       Rob.White@RenaultSportF1
 
Why do you leave such huge gaps between paragraphs Rob ? 

FROM: Rob.White@RenaultSportF1
TO: Adrian.Newey@RedBull
SUBJECT: Out of Office: Re: Why do leave such huge gaps between paragraphs Rob?

[RubalSher]

Ferrari and Mer better not fall for this crap. Domenicalli / Allison  and Paddy Lowe /Wolff better not agree to any reliability excuse. if they are allowed to develop on reliability grounds then it should be open to all manufacturers.

 

I would say any team that works on the engines after a freeze for any reason whatsoever should have all cars that use the engine take an automatic 10 place grid drop for every race for the remainder of the season.

[wrcva]

So 358 laps were done today, 39% of Day 3 in 2013 (same % as yesterday by the way).

 

782 laps have been completed in 2014 testing so far, compared to an AVERAGE of 811 per day in 2013 (883 in Jerez alone). 

 

Of the first 3 days of testing, 32% of laps have been  completed this year compared to last year (2436). 

 

The lowest number of laps done in 2013 in one day was 475 on Day 11; we've yet to come near that this year.

 

Averaging for # of teams/power plant, Merc and Ferrari have pretty much the same # of average laps, I think.  

[SpaMaster]

I can't help but think that the faster times we see are proportional to how reliable the car/engine is and whether teams can push ahead in terms of programme. So it is all about reliability and being able to proceed with the programme. I don't think we are close to seeing the speed yet.

[Ferrari2183]

Are you saying that you will be penalized in races if your engine/parts dont last a certain number of races but at the same time you are free to work on the engine to get rid of the problems that caused the engine/parts to be unreliable in the first place??

You're not free to do anything. You have to lodge an application with the FIA before you can do anything.

[bonjon1979a]

Averaging for # of teams/power plant, Merc and Ferrari have pretty much the same # of average laps, I think.  

Hell of a lot more data for merc though. That's what it's all about. Ferrari looking and sounding good though. Don't think we can say that there's anything to choose between them.

[Fastcake]

Unless they discover their own problems with installation.  Then they're screwed.

 

Well obviously. But Lotus will be in communication with Renault and the problems that their teams have been experiencing this week will be passed back to Lotus, potentially allowing them to work around them - especially if they can manage to shakedown the car. It's not ideal for them, but as I said, it's not the disaster we initially feared.

[Seanspeed]

At this point it looks like McLaren vs. Ferrari vs. Williams vs. Mercedes for the Championship.  Which, if proving to be the case, could make for some very fascinating and "Hollywood"-style comeback story lines.

So your theory is that any team that does a decent amount of laps in winter testing will be competing for the world championship?

[RealRacing]

Sutil

 

Ahh the visual relief after a penisectomy...

Edited by RealRacing, 30 January 2014 - 17:41.

[rodlamas]

So your theory is that any team that does a decent amount of laps in winter testing will be competing for the world championship?

To finish first, first you have to finish. And sometimes you have to be finnish.

[ScottMB]

Seemed like some big gaps today when the track was quiet, and in a green state.  Considering that the sun was out and the weather perfect (all be it still a bit cold) - was suprised some longer runs were not tried.  Much busier at the track, needless to say the reason why, #14.  Thinking hard to see if I learned anything new today, but seemed to reflect yesterday in terms of Mercedes cracking on, and Red Bull, not.  Sauber in the hands of Sutil looked good.  I know he caused a couple of red flags, but the fight between them and Force India seems to be a 2014 storyline.  

Massa looked totally at home in the Williams; that is a decent car, mark my words; jumps out the tight corners!

 

Oh, and my website has crapped out... so new photos will be here later, need a beer now! https://picasaweb.go...14?noredirect=1

 

60+ snaps uploading! I do like it when you can see a drivers eyes in your photos!

Edited by ScottMB, 30 January 2014 - 22:51.

[juicy sushi]

So your theory is that any team that does a decent amount of laps in winter testing will be competing for the world championship?

 

My theory is that they have a big head start on development and set-up data which will give them an edge for at least the first part of the season.  Reliability lets you focus on other areas of development, rather than just making sure the car can do a race distance, or even a lap in the case of the Renault runners.  By being able to proceeed with their programs easily, they can move on to the next thing.  None of the Renault powered teams are at that stage yet, and as a result, will be significantly behind until they have enough data to start doing those things.  At this point, it's all about data acquisition, and Renault-powered cars have none, comparatively.

[Shiroo]

And what if, the problem is packing related. All the bad PR goes so far on Renault. What if rbr is at fault? I would be really mad if I would be a boss of Renault. As mad as to rethink that maybe the other team that is using my engine and has some financial problems might be better as work team, or even I would buy it and.make it.manufacturer team

[ThomFi]

According to Franz Tost, the Renault problems  are deeply worrying.

 

http://www.speedweek...beunruhigt.html

 

google translation:

http://translate.goo...beunruhigt.html

Edited by ThomFi, 30 January 2014 - 18:17.

[EthanM]

And what if, the problem is packing related. All the bad PR goes so far on Renault. What if rbr is at fault? I would be really mad if I would be a boss of Renault. As mad as to rethink that maybe the other team that is using my engine and has some financial problems might be better as work team, or even I would buy it and.make it.manufacturer team

 Well the fact the 3 Renault teams present at the test have each averaged abou 15 laps I 'd say the problem isn't RB specific. Unless Newey designed the other cars too

 

RB is their works team, they are probably dancing right on the edge of cooling, but they didn't decide to suddenly supply half the cooling Renault specced.

[garagetinkerer]

MercedesAMGF1: "There's a symphony of turbocharged goodness as @LewisHamilton roars round #Jerez; V6 #F1 is music to the ears, fact."

 

 

who writes these Mercedes tweets, seems like they are taking a leaf out of the Lotus F1 tweets from last year.
 

At the least Lotus tweets were funny. This is lame.

[BiH]

Sorta interesting pic.

Showing best sector times and top speed.

 

Seems Massa on back straight was doing 304 km/h so they must be giving it full beans already.

 

 

Right click view image.

Edited by BiH, 30 January 2014 - 18:13.

[ScottMB]

 

Seems Massa on back straight was doing 304 km/h so they must be giving it full beans already.

 

Saw him running DRS on the back straight, not seen others do this yet.

[Hellenic tifosi]

It seems that the Ferraris have also done more than 10 practice starts.

[Ferrari2183]

And Hamilton 301.

 

Looks like the Mercedes guys are starting to open the taps a little. They're way ahead of the rest as far as their systems program is concerned.

[Ferrari2183]

Saw him running DRS on the back straight, not seen others do this yet.

Think I saw and image of the Merc with DRS wide open. Can't remember which day though.

[wingwalker]

According to Franz Tost, the Renault problems  are deeply worrying.

 

http://www.speedweek...beunruhigt.html

 

google translation:

http://translate.goo...beunruhigt.html

I like that he is being honest, but man oh man it does look like this test session is basically lost for Renault teams, and where does it put them? I know it's early blah blah but even the teams who are doing good in Jerez aren't doing this many laps either, so I wonder if it''s possible for Renault powered teams to catch up before the first race.

[Seanspeed]

My theory is that they have a big head start on development and set-up data which will give them an edge for at least the first part of the season.  Reliability lets you focus on other areas of development, rather than just making sure the car can do a race distance, or even a lap in the case of the Renault runners.  By being able to proceeed with their programs easily, they can move on to the next thing.  None of the Renault powered teams are at that stage yet, and as a result, will be significantly behind until they have enough data to start doing those things.  At this point, it's all about data acquisition, and Renault-powered cars have none, comparatively.

Yea, I get it, you think that Renault powered cars will be behind. Somewhat logical, although I'd say that's an unsafe assumption once the season begins.

But my point is - what makes you think that Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren and Williams will all be competitive with each other? What information are you using to discern that these teams are all roughly equal in terms of competitiveness that they'll all be competing for the title? :/

[Cesc]

Well, after three days, to me is McLaren & Mercedes quite equal and above the rest. Ferrari is probably close, given the times Kimi set yesterday and today Alonso's mileage and hard tire run, I think they had quite room for improvement. Overall, Mercedes teams are at the top (Williams did the move of the summer!). Renault engine teams have had a disastrous test. I don't remember worse start from a team (teams).

[DanardiF1]

To update my historical comparison at this track.

Magnussen's 1m23.276s today would be 3rd on the grid in 1994 or fastest lap by 1.8 seconds. In 1997 he would have been 18th on the grid or 2nd fastest lap of the race.

I know these comparisons don't mean much, but as far as I'm concerned these cars are certainly in the ballpark of "modern" F1 pace.

There was no Senna chicane back then...

Edit: in 1997 there was. Same layout as now.

Edited by DanardiF1, 30 January 2014 - 18:41.

[juicy sushi]

Yea, I get it, you think that Renault powered cars will be behind. Somewhat logical, although I'd say that's an unsafe assumption once the season begins.

But my point is - what makes you think that Mercedes, Ferrari, McLaren and Williams will all be competitive with each other? What information are you using to discern that these teams are all roughly equal in terms of competitiveness that they'll all be competing for the title? :/

 

Not a lot, other than that they all are doing trouble free (relatively) running and all seem to be able to hit the 1:23's without pushing.  To me that appears to be that since all the teams run fairly similar programs, they're all in around about the same place, with the same pace doing that work.  Ergo, although no one is going for times, they're all working at relatively the same rate and getting relatively similar results.  No one else has hit those levels yet, so I assume these four teams are out in front.

[rodlamas]

And Hamilton 301.

 

Looks like the Mercedes guys are starting to open the taps a little. They're way ahead of the rest as far as their systems program is concerned.

The other post says they are already at 13,000rpm.

 

Going that fast at 13,000 in Jerez will make them easily past 340 in Spa and 360 in Monza in qualifying with DRS wide open if their 8th gear allows on the ratio.

[rodlamas]

Magnussen

 

"I'm not looking into the times too much - it's winter testing, so nobody really knows what the teams are doing," Magnussen said.

"I was pushing but it wasn't balls to the wall. We will go quicker."

 

1:21's or 1:20's tomorrow?

[JRizzle86]

At the least Lotus tweets were funny. This is lame.

Lets get one thing straight. Lotus tweets were never funny.

 

I was wondering if the Lotus tweeter had found a new employer by the way the Merc twitter feed seemed to read.

[Cesc]

There was no Senna chicane back then...

 

I think the chicane was there in 97, but I may be wrong

Edited by Cesc, 30 January 2014 - 18:41.

[Newbrray]

Red Bull problems unlikely to be fixed overnight - Ricciardo
 

http://www.gptoday.c...ght__Ricciardo/

[rodlamas]

Well, after three days, to me is McLaren & Mercedes quite equal and above the rest. Ferrari is probably close, given the times Kimi set yesterday and today Alonso's mileage and hard tire run, I think they had quite room for improvement. Overall, Mercedes teams are at the top (Williams did the move of the summer!). Renault engine teams have had a disastrous test. I don't remember worse start from a team (teams).

Just too early to say anything. We can't judge the tyres yet and real performance.

 

It is still very early days.

[danstheman]

I have very little understanding of engineering and such, but prior to the test would Red Bull (and other teams) have been able to test the engine running in neutral back at their factory packaged inside the car? I mean it's not 'testing' because the car is not moving around a circuit but they can rev the engine up pretty high to simulate the heat. Is that even possible? Surely that would have been able to expose basic overheating and packaging problems.

[MP422]

This year so far is looking like Ferrari vs Merc vs Mclaren for the top 3 packages (no order yet). I wonder when RBR will be able to hit the track and get on with it. Bahrain isn't gonna be much easier with the heat.