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Mark Hughes to 'Motor Sport'!


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#1 Tuboscocca

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 15:39

In an email Motorsport announced the NEW F1-editor: Mark Hughes. A great loss to Autosport??

 

Regards Michael



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#2 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 15:46

I think so.



#3 midgrid

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 18:22

He announced it a couple of weeks ago on Twitter.  As someone who is very much a contemporary F1 journalist (although I suppose the F1 Retro book series he is authoring is also expanding his historical portfolio, it will be interesting to see how he fits into the existing set-up).  Unlike the last big-name signing from Autosport - Nigel Roebuck - Hughes was still writing the F1 race reports up until his departure.  It will also be interesting to see who gets the race report gig at Autosport; the column is probably not so important now that there are regular pieces from a greater number of writers since the last overhaul.



#4 Tuboscocca

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 21:03

He announced it a couple of weeks ago on Twitter.  As someone who is very much a contemporary F1 journalist (although I suppose the F1 Retro book series he is authoring is also expanding his historical portfolio, it will be interesting to see how he fits into the existing set-up).  Unlike the last big-name signing from Autosport - Nigel Roebuck - Hughes was still writing the F1 race reports up until his departure.  It will also be interesting to see who gets the race report gig at Autosport; the column is probably not so important now that there are regular pieces from a greater number of writers since the last overhaul.

according to the 'impressum' Edd Straw is the F1-reporter of Autosport, he travelled anyway to all GPs(?)..I think Mark is very good for Motorsport, as he is nearer to   the actual F1  than NR. Question is why should Motorsport

report in-depth on modern Formula 1??

 

Michael



#5 arttidesco

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 00:02

Question is why should Motorsport

report in-depth on modern Formula 1??

 

Michael

It always did in DSJ's day so why should it not ?



#6 proviz

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:27

according to the 'impressum' Edd Straw is the F1-reporter of Autosport, he travelled anyway to all GPs(?)..I think Mark is very good for Motorsport, as he is nearer to   the actual F1  than NR. Question is why should Motorsport

report in-depth on modern Formula 1??

 

Michael

 

Michael, you may have more info on this, but I would not bet on Mark Hughes focusing on just modern F1 in his new post. He does seem to have profound knowledge of the sport's history, too.



#7 kayemod

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:03

Michael, you may have more info on this, but I would not bet on Mark Hughes focusing on just modern F1 in his new post. He does seem to have profound knowledge of the sport's history, too.

 

It was some years ago, but as I recall from the days when I was an Autosport subscriber, Mark Hughes does have a tendency to slip into Frankel, sorry a slip of the fingers, I meant pretentious twaddle. He wrote one piece that I dimly remember, a waffley and over analytical description of the way in which Giancarlo Fisichella drove around a single corner somewhere or other in practice, and all to make the third or fourth row of the grid. Almost half a page of "hair-trigger corrections" and "seat of the pants anticipation of what the left-rear was doing", I think I gave up about halfway through it. If he can stick to sensible writing about historical stuff, he could well be an asset, but Nigel Roebuck is about all I want to see on the travesty that present day "Effwun" has become.



#8 Tuboscocca

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 10:40

It was some years ago, but as I recall from the days when I was an Autosport subscriber, Mark Hughes does have a tendency to slip into Frankel, sorry a slip of the fingers, I meant pretentious twaddle. He wrote one piece that I dimly remember, a waffley and over analytical description of the way in which Giancarlo Fisichella drove around a single corner somewhere or other in practice, and all to make the third or fourth row of the grid. Almost half a page of "hair-trigger corrections" and "seat of the pants anticipation of what the left-rear was doing", I think I gave up about halfway through it. If he can stick to sensible writing about historical stuff, he could well be an asset, but Nigel Roebuck is about all I want to see on the travesty that present day "Effwun" has become.

Very well described!! Combine this with the mathematical analysis of Adam Cooper on gaining split-seconds on pit-stops ( tyre pressure-corrected, of course), then you have the whole magazine filled with one free practice session... :lol:

 

But cerrtainly Mark has a wider horizont on the sport, than just describing the actual F1-show...

 

Michael



#9 mfd

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:16

"Pretentious twaddle"

A recent column in AS spent two paragraphs explaining some deeply philosophical principle. If there was point to it, which he obviously did, it was far too clever for me.



#10 Gary Davies

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:28

Pardon the pedantry but I do become momentarily confused when people write 'Motorsport' when referring to a magazine title. Motorsport is an activity (albeit requiring a space between motor and sport). The magazine is and always has been 'Motor Sport'. (I await the über pedants who will remind me of Brooklands Gazette. Yes yes...).

 

On its contact page, the publication refers to itself as 

Motor Sport Magazine

Unit 38, Chelsea Wharf,
etc, etc

 

Why is a space and a cap S so difficult for so many? And while I'm in whinge mode, why do our great America allies so frequently seem to eschew Le Mans in favour of Lemans?



#11 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 12:50

Is anyone moving on leaving to make way for him? Let's hope it's Frankel!

It's a pity Ed Foster got shunted off to the website (I just don't have time to look at it). He is a skilled writer, still racing and above all young!



#12 Tuboscocca

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 14:58

Pardon the pedantry but I do become momentarily confused when people write 'Motorsport' when referring to a magazine title. Motorsport is an activity (albeit requiring a space between motor and sport). The magazine is and always has been 'Motor Sport'. (I await the über pedants who will remind me of Brooklands Gazette. Yes yes...).

 

On its contact page, the publication refers to itself as 

Motor Sport Magazine

Unit 38, Chelsea Wharf,
etc, etc

 

Why is a space and a cap S so difficult for so many? And while I'm in whinge mode, why do our great America allies so frequently seem to eschew Le Mans in favour of Lemans?

Gary--this will certainly earn me a second 'warning point'!! Sorry ,I meant the Green one...

 

Michael



#13 PCC

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 15:41

I probably shouldn't poke my head above the parapet, but I actually enjoy Mark Hughes's writing. I've also enjoyed Andrew Frankel's, on the rare occasions that I glance at the road car bits. I don't understand the almost RC-level of venom that some writers inspire on TNF; they almost sound like DSJ fanboys...  ;)



#14 kayemod

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 15:48

I await the über pedants...

 

Why is a space and a cap S so difficult for so many?

 

 

Of course, if you want to be absolut korrekt, it should have been Überpedants, kapital Ü and no space...


Edited by kayemod, 11 January 2014 - 17:05.


#15 chunder27

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 15:57

ISnt it where all the old F1 hacks go?



#16 Tuboscocca

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 16:57

Of course, if you want to be absolut korrekt, it should have been Überpedantin, kapital Ü and no space...

Kayemod

 

so sorry you used the FEMALE form in Überpedantin.Überpedant is the male form!!

 

Your personal German teacher Michael



#17 P.Dron

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 17:16

Kayemod

 

so sorry you used the FEMALE form in Überpedantin.Überpedant is the male form!!

 

Your personal German teacher Michael

 

I personally prefer the female form in Underpants, or indeed not.

 

Back on topic, why is Motor Sport bothering to cover modern Eff Wun, a declining activity that no longer has anything to do with motor sport or motor racing?



#18 kayemod

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 17:25


Your personal German teacher Michael

 

Danke tausendmal Tuboscocca, if you think that was bad, you should hear my spoken German, several times your fellow countrymen have asked me if I'm Dutch. I was hoping that I might have been saved by Gary Davies being one of the many who put "not saying" in the sex box in his profile, but no such luck, so that's probably another TNF I've offended.



#19 Tuboscocca

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 17:32

Danke tausendmal Tuboscocca, if you think that was bad, you should hear my spoken German, several times your fellow countrymen have asked me if I'm Dutch. I was hoping that I might have been saved by Gary Davies being one of the many who put "not saying" in the sex box in his profile, but no such luck, so that's probably another TNF I've offended.

Kayemod,

 

I couldn't resist to 'play' the ugly German (teacher)...TNFer ,especially you, are very tolerant to non-British members, mistreating your language from time to time...But the international flair at TNF is very inspiring..

And of course nothing against the Dutch!!

 

But a certain 'Überpedant' brought us completely out of topic!!

 

Very best regards Michael



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#20 BRG

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 18:01

I personally prefer the female form in Underpants, or indeed not.

 

Back on topic, why is Motor Sport bothering to cover modern Eff Wun, a declining activity that no longer has anything to do with motor sport or motor racing?

Because it is MotorSport magazine (sorry, that should be Motor Sport magazine) and not Historic Motor Sport magazine.  Or the Jenkinson Gazette or any other backward looking title.  The value of the publication is that it has a proper perspective on the sport as a whole, unlike the rest of the pack for whom 2012 is now ancient history which is totally irrelevant to modern day racing.  



#21 Bloggsworth

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 21:19

And while I'm in whinge mode, why do our great America allies so frequently seem to eschew Le Mans in favour of Lemans?

 

Cos when life gives you Lemans you make Lemanade...



#22 Thundersport

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 21:24

"Pretentious twaddle"

A recent column in AS spent two paragraphs explaining some deeply philosophical principle. If there was point to it, which he obviously did, it was far too clever for me.

Agree this was one of the reason I stopped buying Autosport; pages of total pretentious shite that frankly no one gave a toss about.



#23 Thundersport

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 01:49

I can't help feeling this maybe the start of the end of my long Motor Sport subscription. I subscribe to Motor sport news and every other issue wonder why, I used to justify it with Simon Arron's articles but now sorry it's a waste of paper let alone £3. Mark hughes how old is this pretentiious chap? Was he there like Roebuck? I think not he writes total drivel..........



#24 john aston

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 07:14

I suspect Mark Hughes has no alternative rather than  to write about the minutiae of modern F1 firstly because that is what a lot of the audience expects- remember that huge numbers never see a live race but will follow every ..errmm ...twitterfeed and consume every bit of data going. If he didn't do that he wouldn't be writing about the overtaking now would he ? He's a fine and knowledgeable writer- my problem is that I just wanted Pete Lyons to keep on reporting indefinitely. Re Mr Frankel- I am missing something but apart from his worrying resemblance to David Cameron why do so many on here loathe him ?   He writes well, races Alfas ...



#25 PCC

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 14:41

I suspect Mark Hughes has no alternative rather than  to write about the minutiae of modern F1 firstly because that is what a lot of the audience expects- remember that huge numbers never see a live race but will follow every ..errmm ...twitterfeed and consume every bit of data going. If he didn't do that he wouldn't be writing about the overtaking now would he ? He's a fine and knowledgeable writer- my problem is that I just wanted Pete Lyons to keep on reporting indefinitely. Re Mr Frankel- I am missing something but apart from his worrying resemblance to David Cameron why do so many on here loathe him ?   He writes well, races Alfas ...

Agreed completely on all counts. Modern F1 writers are in a unique situation - their readers already have the 'facts' at their fingertips from a dozen different sources, and as you point out, the scribes can't exactly wax lyrical about the slipstreaming duels of the beauty of the cars, can they? Their access to the drivers is also severely limited. If they are to write pieces that aren't just paraphrases of press releases, they will need to dig deeply in small places (not unlike F1 designers, in fact). I've also thought Mark Hughes did this very well. As did Mr. Lyons - very solid photographer, great writer!



#26 RogerGraham

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 14:55

Mark hughes how old is this pretentiious chap? Was he there like Roebuck? I think not he writes total drivel..........

 

That's a bit harsh?  Times marches on.  The magazine can't spend forever doting on whatever is the oldest decade that their eldest writer can recollect being at.



#27 kayemod

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 15:28

I suspect Mark Hughes has no alternative rather than  to write about the minutiae of modern F1 firstly because that is what a lot of the audience expects- remember that huge numbers never see a live race but will follow every ..errmm ...twitterfeed and consume every bit of data going. If he didn't do that he wouldn't be writing about the overtaking now would he ? He's a fine and knowledgeable writer- my problem is that I just wanted Pete Lyons to keep on reporting indefinitely. Re Mr Frankel- I am missing something but apart from his worrying resemblance to David Cameron why do so many on here loathe him ?   He writes well, races Alfas ...

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say I loathe him, but it's the "writes well" bit I take issue with, to me Frankel comes across as someone who recently left a creative writing course, probably without impressing his tutor. His style imitates Hemingway, whilst completely missing the greatness that Ernest possessed.  His work is also completely humourless, which to me was Pete Lyons greatest strength, happily he's still with us so forgive the past tense, but reading Pete's contributions was a joy in the way that Frankel's never is, a Lyons piece was like a pleasant chat with an amusing and well-informed friend, never too formal, but always in impeccable English, I'd go as far as to say that Pete Lyons was the best writer that Autosport ever had, he almost made you feel that you'd been at the events he was writing about.

 

I'm prepared to give Mark Hughes a fair chance, he certainly has a real depth of knowledge of the sport's history. I just hope they can steer him away from over-analytical writing about present day happenings, we've got Nigel for that, and I don't think that Motor Sport needs any more of it than the Roebuck material, which is usually one of the first things that I read. 



#28 PCC

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 16:48

His style imitates Hemingway, whilst completely missing the greatness that Ernest possessed.  His work is also completely humourless...

I honestly don't understand either of these criticisms. How can the work of a man who once began a column with "I must be getting old, because I'm starting to think that it's possible for  road cars to have too much power" be considered completely humourless? The fact those words stick in my mind months after the fact says something about his writing skill - just as, decades after the fact, I can recall some of Pete Lyons' phrases.

 

The comparison with Hemingway also surprises me. I may have missed something, but I always found Hemingway's style very understated, almost distant. Frankel, to me, is much more personal, chatty and and extroverted. It seems to me that their personalities as writers could hardly be more different.

 

While their styles are obviously not to everyone's taste, I don't see how anyone can claim that Frankel and Hughes are poor writers. The way they set up a story, the way they close it, the way they pull together the bits in between into a seamless and apparently effortless narrative arc; these are the marks of seasoned pro. Anyone who thinks it's easy has never tried it.



#29 john aston

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 17:50

I bow to nobody in my admiration of Hemingway and I can say with absolute conviction that in the many articles of  Andrew Frankel's I have read I have never once notice the slightest , teensiest , most microscopic resemblance to the many thousands of words I have read by Hem since first reading him in 1971. And much as I love the great man- you don't read him for laughs ...



#30 kayemod

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 19:50

I bow to nobody in my admiration of Hemingway and I can say with absolute conviction that in the many articles of  Andrew Frankel's I have read I have never once notice the slightest , teensiest , most microscopic resemblance to the many thousands of words I have read by Hem since first reading him in 1971. And much as I love the great man- you don't read him for laughs ...

 

I've read a few, but you probably know Hem better than I do, I was referring to Frankel's short-sentence staccato style. Frankel appears to be a successful writer, having done the same thing myself, and (guilty secret) even having been on a creative writing course many years ago, though possibly when the Bronté sisters were doing the same thing, I honestly admire him for that. I just don't find him enjoyable to read, and I think he's misplaced in today's Motor Sport. Bill Boddy and Jenks weren't accomplished wordsmiths from a style point of view either, but unlike Frankel they were both enjoyable and entertaining to read. Frankel isn't.

 

Pete Lyons of course stands head & shoulders above any of them.



#31 BRG

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 20:02

For which motoring magazine does this Hemingway chap write?  I don't think I have come across his work.

 

I never thought that Jenkinson bloke was a patch on Will Shakespeare...



#32 john aston

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:09

I don't want wanting to labour the point too much. But Andrew  Frankel's style is pretty damn good in my eyes. He may use short sentences on occasion but so what ? The best motoring journalist of them all (with LJKS ) was Russell Bulgin . And his  sublime prose was often just as punchy as the tough guy from Oak Park Illinois.But he was far funnier.   

 

 

End of Hem pastiche . Even though it was fine and good and true.



#33 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 18:10

I wonder why MS needs more F1 coverage. Nigel does a great job of both past and present and I doubt if we need more. I would like to see more coverage of historic club racing and not just the events we can't afford to go to!

As for Frankel, I can't really put my finger on why I dislike his columns. Sometimes rather pretentious and sometimes the sentence construction is rather stilted. Rather too interested in Alfas and assorted German cars and rarely tests anything I might want to buy! I have been told the "modern car" tests are there purely because they bring in adverts. In that case they could save money and use those syndicated tests that you get in your local paper.



#34 BRG

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 18:54

In that case they could save money and use those syndicated tests that you get in your local paper.  

 You mean those tests that never, ever, ever say anything critical and are resolutely positive and upbeat about each and every car being the best that there is?  Yes,  we really need those instead of Frankel daring to say that a car isn't good enough.  

 

Frankel is about the only honest car tester we have.  And I find his writing pithy and often entertaining.  Unlike Hemingway's pretentious twaddle.



#35 kayemod

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 19:55

 

 

Frankel is about the only honest car tester we have.  And I find his writing pithy and often entertaining.  Unlike Hemingway's pretentious twaddle.

 

But he's often wrong, and quite inexcusably, wrong for effect. Like many of today's writers he enjoys being controversial, maybe that's what they pay him for. My current road car has at various times been described by Frankel as "Excellent", "Disappointing", "Mediocre" and most recently "Brilliant". I wouldn't dismiss any of Ernest's work as "pretentious twaddle", but Frankel's I certainly would.
 

 



#36 john aston

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:47

 

 Unlike Hemingway's pretentious twaddle.

That's fighting talk lad....Watch your back.



#37 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:13

The thing is that there are no bad cars these days. The difference between the best and the rest is very little and is often based on image. Most cars can do everything way beyond the needs and expectations of their owners. As noted above Frankel is inconsistent with his comments. His columns are the only ones I don't read.



#38 ian senior

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 11:14

 

Frankel is about the only honest car tester we have.  

 

No he isn't. John Simister fills that role. He's  the only one who saw the Nissan Leaf for the con-trick that it is, while the rest of the journalists were SO excited about it being the future of motoring.....



#39 john aston

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 17:17

There are a number of good journalists ; Simister certainly is  one , as are Steve Cropley (who likes the Leaf-not all of us see electric cars as con tricks ) Gavin Green and  Steve Sutcliffe to name but three.



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#40 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 18:44

He read the writings in the press. He liked a few of them. He disliked more of them. And those he disliked he dismissed as twaddle. Another reader came on the scene. He liked the things the first man disliked. These were the things once dismissed as twaddle. One man's twaddle can be another man's bible. This made a third man consider the matter. He thought hard. He was a grown man. His man mind was driven to decision. And his deep man's voice said "Reading Hemingway makes my brain hurt".

CND

#41 P.Dron

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 20:32

I have been trying to resist getting involved in this topic but I find it impossible after some of the comments above. I shall not pass judgment on any motoring hacks currently operating, save to say that there are The Good, The Bad, The Ugly and (making up the large grey majority in black and white) The Effing Bloody Useless. It was always like that. These days it is harder than ever to make a living out of it and I am certain that it is not as much fun as it was in my time.

 

Let us concentrate on times past. Russell Bulgin was an exceptionally talented writer and a very interesting character but he was well below par as an assessor of handling. He was not a driver. Leonard Setright, on the other hand, is revered by some people but he was undoubtedly a psychiatric case. I wonder if anyone will venture on here to defend his boast in a column that he had spun a test car through 360 degrees downhill on a public road "without losing control at any point during the manoeuvre."

 

In my personal experience, the best British testers no longer operating, for one reason or another,  were Roger Bell, Rex Greenslade and the late Michael Scarlett (RIP - what a nice fellow he was). I may have forgotten one or two others.



#42 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 21:49

LJKS - Yes - tell it like it was Peter.  I'll hold your coat mate.

 

DCN



#43 arttidesco

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 22:07

 Leonard Setright, on the other hand, is revered by some people but he was undoubtedly a psychiatric case. I wonder if anyone will venture on here to defend his boast in a column that he had spun a test car through 360 degrees downhill on a public road "without losing control at any point during the manoeuvre."
 

Reads like he is describing what one might today call a donut, I wonder if Sebastian and Lewis were fans ?



#44 Graham Gauld

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:00

I have been trying to resist getting involved in this topic but I find it impossible after some of the comments above. I shall not pass judgment on any motoring hacks currently operating, save to say that there are The Good, The Bad, The Ugly and (making up the large grey majority in black and white) The Effing Bloody Useless. It was always like that. These days it is harder than ever to make a living out of it and I am certain that it is not as much fun as it was in my time.

 

Let us concentrate on times past. Russell Bulgin was an exceptionally talented writer and a very interesting character but he was well below par as an assessor of handling. He was not a driver. Leonard Setright, on the other hand, is revered by some people but he was undoubtedly a psychiatric case. I wonder if anyone will venture on here to defend his boast in a column that he had spun a test car through 360 degrees downhill on a public road "without losing control at any point during the manoeuvre."

 

In my personal experience, the best British testers no longer operating, for one reason or another,  were Roger Bell, Rex Greenslade and the late Michael Scarlett (RIP - what a nice fellow he was). I may have forgotten one or two others.

 

I must totally agree with  Peter and Dougs comments about the dear departed Leonard Setright.There were times when the man was totally uncontrollable.but what an entertaining guy he was. On many, if not all, occasions he drove like a maniac. Once when travelling with him on a car launch, and on a road I knew well, I burst out laughing and told him there was no way he would get round the next corner. Well, close, he just managed to keep the car from going sideways off the road but only because there was a slight slope that helped slow it down. He was a complicated man not aided by his wife's suicide but as I say, what entertaining and amusing company.



#45 john ruston

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 07:00

I am sure Setright would have been thrilled to know that he set a prescident for today's wonderboys's.

A clash of generations!

Messrs Nye and Dron have covered the subject very well.Pete Lyons was one of the greats and I bumped into him running a book stall at Leguna a couple of years ago.
Many of the great scribes were not the greatest drivers but some like Roger Bell were decent race drivers.
Do not think it matters who is in Motorsport these days when you have all the TNF referees checking their input!

As a matter of interest (to me anyway) I have no problem with Andrew Frankels stuff .Its all opinion not necessarily fact boys!

#46 mfd

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:54

As this seems to have moved towards driving abilities, I think it's worth pointing out the Brother of MH is a highly respected racer.



#47 john aston

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 09:08

Back on writing ..the points I was making above related solely to writing style and quality. I don't doubt that LJKS was borderline bonkers and drove irresponsibly, nor that RB may not have been a gifted driver. It's not the point -" judge the art and not the artist"; and I think one has to accept that   Lyons , Bulgin, Setright (and yes Bell , Scarlett et al ) were terrific motoring journalists with a style and quality light years ahead of most of their contemporaries . I dare say Autosport's Ben Anderson can pedal a single seater quicker than any of these guys could have done..but I'd rather read a good journalist than a good racing driver any day. For sure I would ...



#48 Mallory Dan

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 20:11

This is why Cricket Journalism is so much  better that Football's



#49 David Birchall

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 02:07

I have to agree with several (but not all) of the above posters.  LJK was a character-like a DSJ and WB.  We need more like 'em-not the brown toast and porridge brigade who seem to populate "Practical Classics" and "Kit Cars Forever".

Steve Cropley  and almost anybody else who wrote for "Super Car Classics"  gets my vote.   Hale can get a bit pretentious at times but I think it is because he is overawed by the machinery-is that possible?  I think he belongs at MS.   LJK could get pretentious too-who needs Latin quotes?  (Not 'avin the Latin as I is wont)  But he was always entertaining.



#50 john aston

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:30

Case of res ipsa loquitur where you're concerned then...