89 replies to this topic

[Robertsf]

Great to see that in this years f1-season we have 4,5 drivers from the nordic countries, 2,5 drivers from Finland (Bottas, Rosberg and Räikkönen, one from Denmark and one from Sweden. Can´t remember if there has ever before been this many drivers from the nordic countries. 

[scandyman]

Great to see that in this years f1-season we have 4,5 drivers from the nordic countries, 2,5 drivers from Finland (Bottas, Rosberg and Räikkönen, one from Denmark and one from Sweden. Can´t remember if there has ever before been this many drivers from the nordic countries. 

Who is swedish driver?

[Robertsf]

Who is swedish driver?

Marcus Ericson

[Richard T]

A lot of older narrow-minded swedish men sees Nico Rosberg as a swedish driver because his father was born in sweden ;)

 

I have friends on facebook that wrote stuff like "First swedish F1 win since Ronnie!" when Nico won in China 2012   

[senna da silva]

I don't understand why it matters which region of the planet a driver comes from?

[ensign14]

A lot of older narrow-minded swedish men sees Nico Rosberg as a swedish driver because his father was born in sweden ;)

 

I have friends on facebook that wrote stuff like "First swedish F1 win since Ronnie!" when Nico won in China 2012   

 

But they missed out on the wins by the chap who actually was born in Sweden?

[Richard T]

But they missed out on the wins by the chap who actually was born in Sweden?

 

It's true what you say that Keke raced after Ronnie.. But they wrote it like that, so apparently they forgot it

[eronrules]

A lot of older narrow-minded swedish men sees Nico Rosberg as a swedish driver because his father was born in sweden ;)

 

I have friends on facebook that wrote stuff like "First swedish F1 win since Ronnie!" when Nico won in China 2012   

isn't he's also supposed to be 

 

1. Finnish

2. German

3. Monaconian

 

take your pick 

[UPRC]

Had to go back a little ways, but last time this happened was 1976 with Clay Regazzoni, Ronnie Peterson, Gunnar Nilsson, Conny Andersson, Loris Kessel and Jac Nelleman.

[PayasYouRace]

Regazzoni was Swiss, but that's still 5.

[FullThrottleF1]

Eronrules.

I think you mean 'Monegasque' not Monacanian ;-)

[Disgrace]

I've never understood the Swiss/Swede confusion.

[Rob G]

Regazzoni was Swiss, but that's still 5.

 

Four. Kessel was also Swiss.

[midgrid]

I've never understood the Swiss/Swede confusion.

 

I often get Jo Bonnier and Jo Siffert confused in my head...

[Baffomet]

Please, go ahead and count all the world championships of nordic countries and see which country is at the top. 

Edited by Baffomet, 21 January 2014 - 21:54.

[FredrikB]

Please, go ahead and count all the world championships of nordic countries and see which country is at the top. 

Ice Hockey?

[Myrvold]

Uhm, cross country skiing, biathlon? Us Norwegians cannot compete in anything reg. motorsport history

[Henrik B]

I often get Jo Bonnier and Jo Siffert confused in my head...

 

Well, understandable for more reasons than one since Jo Bonnier lived in Switzerland for most of his life.

[Baffomet]

Ice Hockey?

Are we on a ice hockey forum? Edit: speaking of ice hockey, the U20 WC was nice...

Edited by Baffomet, 22 January 2014 - 01:04.

[MaxCrazyEddieCayer]

Gilles, Jacques snr And Jacques Villeneuve jr could be counted as Nordic drivers too, Canada being frozen for half of the year. Today was minus 30. If that's not Nordic then I don't know what is...

[InSearchOfThe]

Gilles, Jacques snr And Jacques Villeneuve jr could be counted as Nordic drivers too, Canada being frozen for half of the year. Today was minus 30. If that's not Nordic then I don't know what is...

Canada isn't Nordic.

http://en.wikipedia....ordic_countries

[pathogen]

Reine Wisell… 

[MaxCrazyEddieCayer]

Should have specified that technically Canada was not a Nordic country, but it sure felt like one based on the winter wheater we live with half the year. My fault.

[halifaxf1fan]

Canada isn't Nordic.

http://en.wikipedia....ordic_countries

 

But we recently claimed ownership of the North Pole!

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-pole-1.2456773

 

And we gave Santa's hometown it's own postal code H0H 0H0.

[warp]

But we recently claimed ownership of the North Pole!

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-pole-1.2456773

 

And we gave Santa's hometown it's own postal code H0H 0H0.

 

Wasn't Santa's Town somewhere in Finland?

[ollebompa]

I am from Sweden!


Note: Sweden is not Switzerland.

[LuckyStrike1]

I'm from Sweden but try to be Swiss every month when the taxes are paid. 

 

Unfortunately Swedish tax authorities are very good in knowing the difference between Swedish and Swiss. 

[PayasYouRace]

I often get Jo Bonnier and Jo Siffert confused in my head...

 

The average* Jo's of 1960s F1.

 

*Results wise. They were pretty good drivers from what I've read.

[Oho]

But they missed out on the wins by the chap who actually was born in Sweden?

 

So? This rant is getting very old indeed but Keke, for the sake of his place of birth, is about at much Swedish as e.g. Bruce WiIlis is German for his.

Edited by Oho, 22 January 2014 - 08:12.

[ensign14]

So? This rant is getting very old indeed but Keke, for the sake of his place of birth, is about at much Swedish as e.g. Bruce WiIlis is German for his.

 

Not the point, it seems utterly bizarre that people would think of Nico as being Swedish but completely overlook Keke.  What are they teaching kids at school these days?  Roach rolling or something?

[The Kanisteri]

A lot of older narrow-minded swedish men sees Nico Rosberg as a swedish driver because his father was born in sweden ;)

 

I have friends on facebook that wrote stuff like "First swedish F1 win since Ronnie!" when Nico won in China 2012   

 

Keke Rosberg was indeed born in Stockholm, Sweden. But it won't it automatically make nationality of Sweden. Keke's parents happened to being at Sweden that time (working, school, holiday?). Keke got finnish passport, not Swedish passport. Should that ring a bell? Later on this Finnish guy married German woman and they got child - Nico - and it was possiblity to apply citizenship of both parents. Nico has rights for Finnish and German passports.

 

Imagine situation for example British couple gets workplace at Beijing, China and they go there for several years. While working and living at there they get child. Do you think that kid is Chinese? OK, couple keeps career on and they get two more childs at there. Does China's one child policy punish them hard due they have 3 Chinese kids in family? Couple's career at China is coming to end and they are having plans to move back into UK. Do they have to go through immigration procedure since bringing 3 chinese kids with in with them?

 

Yeah...think about it.

 

For 2014 F1 line up: There's four nordic drivers: 2 Finns (Räikkönen, Bottas), 1 Swedish (Ericsson), 1 Dane (Magnussen). Nico Rosberg is driving under German license so he is in this case German.

[noikeee]

Nico's case just shows how nationalities are increasingly less and less relevant these days. I'm sure he "feels" himself to be a little bit Finnish, little bit German and a little bit Monegasque. You have to pick a side to race under that flag yes, but that doesn't mean you don't have any connections to the other sides. It's just a flag that vaguely represents an association of people from an arbitrarily defined piece of land with common cultural traits.

 

Doesn't mean he's "less" Finnish or "less" German than others, neither. It's just that these things aren't as clear cut and rigid as they used to be. Does he count as a "Nordic" driver... subjective and totally dependent on the criteria of whoever's counting them, but it's worth bringing up his name.

[The Kanisteri]

 

Doesn't mean he's "less" Finnish or "less" German than others, neither. It's just that these things aren't as clear cut and rigid as they used to be. Does he count as a "Nordic" driver... subjective and totally dependent on the criteria of whoever's counting them, but it's worth bringing up his name.

 

Wikipedias definition for Nordic Countries are: "The Nordic countries make up a region in Northern Europe and the North Atlantic, consisting of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden as well as their associated territories, the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, Greenland, and Svalbard and Jan Mayen."

 

Nico did drive some of his career under finnish license so he was "nordic" driver. Now he drives under German license he is German driver.

[Collombin]

Keke got finnish passport, not Swedish passport.

If that's the important criterion then Germany's first world champion was Jochen Rindt. And he was born in Germany too.

[noikeee]

Wikipedias definition for Nordic Countries are: "The Nordic countries make up a region in Northern Europe and the North Atlantic, consisting of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden as well as their associated territories, the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, Greenland, and Svalbard and Jan Mayen."

 

Nico did drive some of his career under finnish license so he was "nordic" driver. Now he drives under German license he is German driver.

Which sounds completely absurd and demonstrates precisely why I think filing people under these rigid denominations is old-fashioned and doesn't tell the whole story.

 

You can't stop being Nordic. I wouldn't stop being Latin if I moved to the UK, stayed there for a couple years, got a British passport then started using it for everything.

[ensign14]

 

Nico's case just shows how nationalities are increasingly less and less relevant these days. I'm sure he "feels" himself to be a little bit Finnish, little bit German and a little bit Monegasque. You have to pick a side to race under that flag yes, but that doesn't mean you don't have any connections to the other sides. It's just a flag that vaguely represents an association of people from an arbitrarily defined piece of land with common cultural traits.

 

I think that's a deeper question and one that could ultimately be harmful.  The vast majority of the world's population are "national", in that they are born in the same country in which their parents were born.  Not a hint of internationalism.  Because they have no opportunity to travel and no safety net to go off and work abroad.

 

There is however an elite which is able to do so and is more able to meet partners from other countries.

 

The harm is that with less commitment to "a" country they end up not owing allegiance to anywhere.  And can take themselves off to tax havens which ultimately feed off those countries with armies and security forces.  But without anything going back in return.  It's reminiscent in a way of the French state pre-Revolution - an overly taxed third of the population subsidizing the richest two-thirds.

 

Many of the moves to abolish borders are for the sake of multinational companies who also owe no allegiance.

 

Given that the nation state has been the only real solution to the problems of how societies evolve (everything else tried - theocracy, nomadic tribalism and so on - has not got very far), then this is either a whole new paradigm to kick humankind up a register, or it will end up with a two-tier system a la Eloi/Morlocks.

 

Bit OT, but there you go.

[noikeee]

I think that's a deeper question and one that could ultimately be harmful.  The vast majority of the world's population are "national", in that they are born in the same country in which their parents were born.  Not a hint of internationalism.  Because they have no opportunity to travel and no safety net to go off and work abroad.

 

There is however an elite which is able to do so and is more able to meet partners from other countries.

 

I think it's precisely the other way around. In F1 yes you get guys that can show off a Monaco passport within their vast collection of nationalities, because their families were filthy rich, but everyone in F1 is filthy rich anyway. I think these days the increasing odd nationality combos are mostly the propriety of the less priviledged who needed to emmigrate, however. Most people go work abroad because it's their only or best chance, not because they had a safety net that allowed them to do so. Hell from the top of my mind my own Portuguese family as of now has familiar ties to South Africa, Venezuela, the USA and Macedonia and we are not particularly wealthy.

 

 

The harm is that with less commitment to "a" country they end up not owing allegiance to anywhere.  And can take themselves off to tax havens which ultimately feed off those countries with armies and security forces.  But without anything going back in return.  It's reminiscent in a way of the French state pre-Revolution - an overly taxed third of the population subsidizing the richest two-thirds.

 

Many of the moves to abolish borders are for the sake of multinational companies who also owe no allegiance.

 

Given that the nation state has been the only real solution to the problems of how societies evolve (everything else tried - theocracy, nomadic tribalism and so on - has not got very far), then this is either a whole new paradigm to kick humankind up a register, or it will end up with a two-tier system a la Eloi/Morlocks.

 

Bit OT, but there you go.

 

This is straying into philosophical/political theories that I know little of so can't give an informed reply, but I'm pretty sure international families are more common than ever thanks to the ease of travel, not restricted by classes or level of wealth, and whether you pin them down to nations or not you cannot stop the evolution in that direction. Although it's hardly a completely new phenomenon, it's increasing.

 

I think the tax havens "problem" is a completely false question apart for the very elite such as F1 drivers, at least as of now. The masses of migrants all over the globe aren't registering their bank accounts and taxable income on the Cayman Islands yet. I'm not really saying we should abolish borders neither, just that it makes increasingly less sense to label people as mutually exclusive nation A or nation B.

 

We're very off topic now but now it's getting interesting...

[FredrikB]

Are we on a ice hockey forum? Edit: speaking of ice hockey, the U20 WC was nice...

Sorry couldn´t resist. But this thread was lost in space very early on when Switzerland was included in Scandinavia 

[Oho]

Sorry couldn´t resist. But this thread was lost in space very early on when Switzerland was included in Scandinavia 

 

If Finland is considered part of Scandinavia Switzerland fits in pretty nice as well.

[darkkis]

I don't think that most of the people are "Monegasque" anyway. To me monaco is just an artificial country with no real history bonding its people together only made to serve the purpose of rich elite..

 

/OT

 

If Finland is considered part of Scandinavia Switzerland fits in pretty nice as well.

Well yeah Finland isn't a part of Scandinavia, but a part of fennoscandia, and of course a "member" of nordic countries. But who has claimed Finland to be a part of scandinavia?

Edited by darkkis, 22 January 2014 - 12:43.

[FredrikB]

 But who has claimed Finland to be a part of scandinavia?

Me, and a few others.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Scandinavia

https://www.google.s...iw=1348&bih=854

[Fabien Pousset]

For what it's worth, I once heard the Finland isn't technically part of Scandinavia (Wiki says "parts of northern Finland belong to the Scandinavian peninsula"), but of a sorter of "Greater Scandinavia Area" called "Fennoscandinavia" or something. Anyways...

[BRG]

 

I don't think that most of the people are "Monegasque" anyway. To me monaco is just an artificial country with no real history bonding its people together only made to serve the purpose of rich elite..

 

You are right about most people living in Monaco not being Monegasque, but it is unfair to say that it is an artificial country.  In fact it is an extremely ancient Italian principality (the ruling family name is Grimaldi) from the days when Italy was a disunited conglomeration of kingdoms, republics, duchies, principalities and Papal states which included this part of the world that we now consider to be French..  It should have been incorporated into the united Italy in the 1870s but Cavour and Garibaldi gave over the County of Nice to the French as a reward for French help in uniting the rest of Italy.  Monaco went with Nice as it was not practical to make a tiny enclave part of ITaly.  No-one cared back then anyway as it was a totally valueless backwater.  

 

Somehow, the Republic of San Marino also missed out incorporation into Italy.  Both are of course famous motor-racing nations!

[FredrikB]

This thread has turned into a geography lesson 

[The Kanisteri]

You can't stop being Nordic. I wouldn't stop being Latin if I moved to the UK, stayed there for a couple years, got a British passport then started using it for everything.

 

I didn't mean he is not classified nordic due driving under geman license. Rosberg family had reasons to fondle with license nationalities. In junior career Nico had good platform in Finland due tough competition on track, not by welath of parents and such. But when moving to bigger series gaining sponsors get very tricky - especially for Finns. So German bath was commercially succesfull since big supply of potential sponsors and big moneys and better connections than in Finland.

 

I meant in motorsport Nico Rosberg is German, at customs office and as civilian he is dualcitizenship having Finnish-German.

[The Kanisteri]

This thread has turned into a geography lesson 

Education is for good.

[Romulus]

Scandinavia:

Sweden

Norway

Denmark

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Scandinavia

 

Easy reminder: Scandinavian Airline Systems (SAS) is the flag carrier for the above countries

 

Nordics:

Sweden

Denmark

Norway

Finland

Iceland

 

Since Finland is no longer part of Sweden it is no longer a scandinavian country but a Nordic one.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ordic_countries

Edited by Romulus, 22 January 2014 - 13:52.

[FredrikB]

From that Wikipedia page
"The clearest example of the use of the term "Scandinavia" as a political and societal construct is the unique position of Finland, based largely on its southwestern part having been part of Sweden for more than seven centuries, thus to much of the world associating Finland with all of Scandinavia."

 

Whatever...

[Makarias]

I don't know how many decades ago the entire universe should have become bored with these nitpicking discussions about definitions. Can't someone start a greatest ever driver thread instead?

[lustigson]

If that's the important criterion then Germany's first world champion was Jochen Rindt. And he was born in Germany too.

 

From German parents, even...