51 replies to this topic

[Risil]

It's to do with fuel checks apparently.

 

Sir sir I have some questions.

 

1.1) If you win and run out of fuel on the cool-down lap, will that mean disqualification from the race?

 

1.2) Isn't that the most bullshit reason for losing a race ever?

 

1.3) On races we know are marginal on fuel, are the commentators going to be in a state of frenzied excitement about whether Vettel/Kimi/Lewis can make it back to the pits for post-race fuel inspection???

2) If you run out of fuel on the last lap but there are drivers in the points who are a lap behind you, will you be disqualified for that too? It seems unfair that you should be able to run illegal fuel and disadvantage the people who were one lap slower than you.

 

3) Do they have to run two cool-down laps at Abu Dhabi?

Edited by Risil, 23 January 2014 - 19:28.

[InSearchOfThe]

Just what F1 needs, more BS rules. It's going to be hard enough to complete the race let alone have enough fuel for post race inspection.

Is this Vettel's fault because of donut celebrations? Jesus, F1 really is becoming a joke.The pinnacle of motorsports uses such ass-backwards logic sometimes.

The only saving grace is it still has to be approved by the teams, but they're the same people who voted for the double points finale so I'm not give this much of a chance of a rules modification.

[smitten]

It much more likely it's so they can get to the press conference/bullpen on time.

[DrProzac]

Stupid and unecessary.

[SealTheDiffuser]

somehow stupid, even if you cross the line on the last drop you get disqualified... there must be better solution to check the fuel...

 

first double point in Abu Dhabi now this stupidity, RIDICULOUS !!!

 

 

edit: stop, they just have to carry like one extra KG as they also have to carry extra for the warm-up lap, race will be not effected. so it is nothing becuase they are allowed to put more than 100KG into thr tank before the race. It only is problematic for cars with tech. issues.

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 23 January 2014 - 19:27.

[sock22]

I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, Risil raises some good points about how this can become farcical. But if fuel really is critical this year we could have the similarly farcical situation of a dozen cars pulling off at the pit exit after each race. I can imagine this would be a pain for the FIA. Maybe a grid penalty for the next race would be a more suitable punishment, but then again we're going to have enough of those as it is.

[PayasYouRace]

Seeing as refuelling is banned during the race, why not take the sample when the fuel is put in before the start?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

I can't be alone in not wanting to see donuts in the pinnacle of motorsport. Dounts are for amateurs racing series in my opinion...

[Clatter]

Seeing as refuelling is banned during the race, why not take the sample when the fuel is put in before the start?

That would leave the opportunity for a slow release performance additive to be put in the tank.  

[Clatter]

I can't be alone in not wanting to see donuts in the pinnacle of motorsport. Dounts are for amateurs racing series in my opinion...

You may not be alone, but I'd hazard a guess that your in the minority.

[dau]

It's to do with fuel checks apparently.

 

Sir sir I have some questions.

 

1.1) If you win and run out of fuel on the cool-down lap, will that mean disqualification from the race?

 

1.2) Isn't that the most bullshit reason for losing a race ever?

 

1.3) On races we know are marginal on fuel, are the commentators going to be in a state of frenzied excitement about whether Vettel/Kimi/Lewis can make it back to the pits for post-race fuel inspection???

2) If you run out of fuel on the last lap but there are drivers in the points who are a lap behind you, will you be disqualified for that too? It seems unfair that you should be able to run illegal fuel and disadvantage the people who were one lap slower than you.

 

3) Do they have to run two cool-down laps at Abu Dhabi?

 

1.1) It could be any penalty, probably not DSQ. Maybe a time penalty like having 20s added to your time. Carrying less fuel means the car has enjoyed a lap time advantage, so that would be reasonable.

 

1.2) Yes, it would certainly be very embarassing for the team members who first decided they'd better run with less than sufficient fuel, secondly ignored all the calculations during the race and failed to adjust consumption and thirdly were unaware all teams have to follow the same rules.

 

1.3) Probably. Commentators are getting excited about pretty much everything which shouldn't be surprising considering it's their job to keep viewers interested.

 

2) No.

 

3) No.

 

Seeing as refuelling is banned during the race, why not take the sample when the fuel is put in before the start?

 

Because that would probably require too much time and or FIA personnel and it's easier to just take the sample after the race, like it has always been done.

Edited by dau, 23 January 2014 - 19:48.

[PayasYouRace]

That would leave the opportunity for a slow release performance additive to be put in the tank.  

 

That seems fair.

 

 

Because that would probably require too much time and or FIA personnel and it's easier to just take the sample after the race, like it has always been done.

 

That's silly because it would take the same amount of time and people either side of the race.

[RockyRaccoon68]

Ridiculous rule, the flag signals the end of the race!  There is no good reason for the cars having to complete another lap.

[SpeedRacer`]

It effectively means the race is no longer over at the chequered flag...

[Andrew Hope]

 

The only way this rule will provide any extra entertainment (aside from the hilarity of someone losing a championship because they didn't have enough fuel left over, which would be just deserts for whoever okays rules like this) is if rather than the first car over the line winning the race, it's the first car to make it back to the FIA inspection area. Imagine 22 shitty old Fords fighting for one space in the parking lot at Walmart, except better because it would happen 20 times a year.

[midgrid]

Imagine the scenario whereby Vettel wins the championship in Abu Dhabi due to the double-points rule, but then loses it again for not completing the slow-down lap.

[dau]

That's silly because it would take the same amount of time and people either side of the race.

They have all the time in the world after the race, but only about 15min before the race, as that's the time when all the cars must have left the pit lane. Before that, they can do recon laps and refuel as often as they like. Actually, i think they can still top up on the grid up to the 1min signal, but i'm not sure about that.

[Clatter]

Ridiculous rule, the flag signals the end of the race!  There is no good reason for the cars having to complete another lap.

The clock stops when they cross the line on their Q lap, but they still have to return to the pits with sufficient fuel or suffer a penalty. Don't see the difference really.

[Andrew Hope]

Imagine the scenario whereby Vettel wins the championship in Abu Dhabi due to the double-points rule, but then loses it again for not completing the slow-down lap.

 

This would be good, but it would be even way more fun if Lewis or Alonso narrowly beat Vettel to the title, and only because double points were awarded, and then the car runs out of fuel entering the pits on the cool down lap and WE FIVE TIME CHAMP NOW!

[Slackbladder]

You may not be alone, but I'd hazard a guess that your in the minority.

I don't mind donuts, but Vettel was making it a bit Silly last season.

Donuts are ok for the following reasons I reckon.
1) first win by a driver or team
2) win at a home gp.
3) winning the championship...,

That keeps it special.

[Risil]

I think some things you just have to leave up to the drivers' judgement.

[dau]

I don't mind donuts, but Vettel was making it a bit Silly last season.

Donuts are ok for the following reasons I reckon.
1) first win by a driver or team
2) win at a home gp.
3) winning the championship...,

That keeps it special.

Fans having personal rules for when donuts are 'ok'. No, it's fine, i always make that confused face.

[rooksby]

Ridiculous rule, the flag signals the end of the race!  There is no good reason for the cars having to complete another lap.

 

The lights going-out signal the start of the race, that doesn't mean teams are free to ignore the pre-race regulations (pit-closing, mechanics away from car, formation lap) ... so I fail to see why the chequered flag should indicate that post-race regulations are to be ignored.

 

Right now teams that properly manage their fuel to return a car safely and promptly to the stewards are at a material competitive disadvantage to teams that aim to just cross the finish line and abandon their car with only a fuel sample in the tank. That's unfair. Having cars and drivers scattered about the finishing line and pit-exit is for a number of reasons very far from satisfactory. I am happy to see the regulations modified to require all teams to return their car and driver to the pits for the necessary post-race scrutineering in a controlled and equitable manner.

[Rob]

This is a really stupid situation.

[Jon83]

Actually getting to the point where I'm past caring. 

[TomNokoe]

It's always bothered me a little that people could defend like crazy and then pull over straight after the flag while the pursuer was able to complete the cool down lap, it just felt a little contentious, especially with the rule in force in quali. But at the same time if you can't complete the slow down lap then you aren't able to collect marbles for weight etc.

[garagetinkerer]

I can't be alone in not wanting to see donuts in the pinnacle of motorsport. Dounts are for amateurs racing series in my opinion...

From one grumpy (not so) young man to another i guess..  I'd be willing to wager a fiver than none of us armchair experts have ever been a world champion at anything. Why not let people express their joy unless it is really offensive to someone. It is annoying to you, but i guess i'm not alone in this, most will be willing to risk seeing a few get annoyed, rather than have a very sterile proceedings.

[Fudce]

The rule is already there for Qualifying, so why not the race.

 

And yes - if a car can not legally submit a litre sample, and needs to stop in order to save fuel, they are basicly unable to submit a legal car to scrutineering, and should be thrown out of the race. It's the same as if a car had an illegal third pedal, or hidden traction control, or flexible body parts... If a car is not able to complete the race within the regulations, then their race is invalid.

 

 

That, and I'm sick of the "Pit Exit Car Park" at 2:40pm race day.

[garagetinkerer]

This would be good, but it would be even way more fun if Lewis or Alonso narrowly beat Vettel to the title, and only because double points were awarded, and then the car runs out of fuel entering the pits on the cool down lap and WE FIVE TIME CHAMP NOW!

Forums (English ones especially) across the interweb will meltdown... do not even joke about Lewis losing a title like that. I've never been to a Spanish forum so i can't speak about it. Personally, i'd like to see if Vettel will win his fifth. It was special when i was watching Michael really wipe the floor with the competition, and it is pretty special now.

 

On Topic. FIA should really dig their head out of their rear end, and stop mucking with the rules. This is getting sillier by the minute.

[R Soul]

Does anyone know if the ERS could store enough energy to get a car back to the pits if it's marginal on fuel?

[Exb]

I'm not entirely sure what the problem is with this rule, there is no reason the teams can't put in a bit of extra fuel to ensure they can complete the cool down lap, and it will stop an issue where half the field might pull over on track just after the chequered flag which would be a high possibility if it was not penalised as they would want to save carrying the extra lap of fuel all race if they thought they could get away with it.

[Buttoneer]

It's always bothered me a little that people could defend like crazy and then pull over straight after the flag while the pursuer was able to complete the cool down lap, it just felt a little contentious, especially with the rule in force in quali. But at the same time if you can't complete the slow down lap then you aren't able to collect marbles for weight etc.

Yeah agree that it always seemed very odd for one driver to (apparently) get awya with more than the other but really the chequered flag signifies the end of the event so pretty much anything should go.

 

Still, as long as the rule which is imposed is the same for everyone then it should be OK.  This rule isn't because some people get lapped.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't care about them?  Bernie doesn't.

[pdac]

Once again, a good idea but bad (suggested) implementation. The rule is that you much have enough fuel to provide a sample for testing. All they need to do is declare for each circuit and additional amount that will be need to be present if you stop on the circuit rather than returning. It would be just a modification to the existing rule.

[Ricciardo2014]

Does anyone know if the ERS could store enough energy to get a car back to the pits if it's marginal on fuel?

 

Very good question !

One I don't know the answer to, but I'm sure it would contribute quite a lot.

No doubt the teams have already looked into it ;)

[Jackmancer]

Why not have a separate 1liter fueltank, which isn't connected to anything, and serves no other purpose than for the FiA inspection alone?

I know it's bullshit, but so is this rule.

[Ricciardo2014]

Why not have a separate 1liter fueltank, which isn't connected to anything, and serves no other purpose than for the FiA inspection alone?

I know it's bullshit, but so is this rule.

 

Didn't Jenson get in the **** for that a while back ?

[Jackmancer]

Didn't Jenson get in the **** for that a while back ?

 

Well, their car (BAR at Imola, 2005) was underweight, and they used an illegal system that only added fuel to their secret tank during the final pitstop.

 

A separate tank which is filled for the entirety of the race wouldn't cause any legal issues according to the rulebook, I think, cause the car would be upto minimum weigh for the complete duration of the race.

[Brother Fox]

This is good news. Theres been a alarming amount of personality creeping into the sport of late.

[jee]

Why not have a separate 1liter fueltank, which isn't connected to anything, and serves no other purpose than for the FiA inspection alone?

I know it's bullshit, but so is this rule.

From what I know teams are allowed to have fuel cells larger than 100kg, but they are only allowed to use 100kg for the race. So any fuel consumed before or after the race is excluded from this 100kg.

Edited by jee, 24 January 2014 - 07:30.

[loki]

I can't be alone in not wanting to see donuts in the pinnacle of motorsport. Dounts are for amateurs racing series in my opinion...

Naw, a lot of people like to watch the donuts in NASCAR....

[darkkis]

From what I know teams are allowed to have fuel cells larger than 100kg, but they are only allowed to use 100kg for the race. So any fuel consumed before or after the race is excluded from this 100kg.

But teams ofc don't want more extra weight.

[apoka]

The rule just wants to make sure that the show is not ruined by plenty of cars stopping right after the checkered flag. While this happened before for a few cars such a scenario is apparently more likely with the 2014 regulations.

 

[apoka]

3) Do they have to run two cool-down laps at Abu Dhabi?

 

You don't have to, but if you only complete one cool-down lap, you'll only be awarded single points for that race.

[Buttoneer]

The rule just wants to make sure that the show is not ruined by plenty of cars stopping right after the checkered flag. While this happened before for a few cars such a scenario is apparently more likely with the 2014 regulations.

It's a race, not a show, and the race cannot be ruined by someone stopping after they have crossed the line.  If you see what I mean.  Uness you consider that one of them stoppings means that they had an unfair advantage of additional energy consumption.

 

I think it's a tough one because you're right, of course, but at the same time 'getting back to the paddock' shouldn't really be part of the event.

[Tenmantaylor]

I can't be alone in not wanting to see donuts in the pinnacle of motorsport. Dounts are for amateurs racing series in my opinion...

 

 Did you find Webber's backflip into the pool at Monaco dangerous and unnecessary too? Only because you are grumpy doesn't mean others can't enjoy it when someone expresses their happiness.

 

Just  a new challenge for Seb to overcome - win the race with enough fuel for the inlap AND donuts 

[Shambolic]

I miss the days when the winner was the first one over the line, and the car was over engineered if it made it to the first corner of the cool down lap without 90% of it falling off.

[Fastcake]

The winner of the race is the first to cross the line in a car that has passed post-race scrutineering. There has never been a day that just crossing the line gave you the win.

[SealTheDiffuser]

It's only to ban donuts. Stalling risk is too big so they  (he) will let it be.

 

BUt will it also be valid in Spa, as they go right into the pits wrong after finish line!!!!!

[SpaMaster]

What a joke! FIA has absolutely lost their mind. Total amateurs!

Edited by SpaMaster, 24 January 2014 - 19:46.

[eronrules]

i'd support it, rule is a rule, u break it, u get penalized.

 

that said, i don't think disqualification is right for such an offense, 20 second add-up seems more likely.