58 replies to this topic

[balmybaldwin]

So what do we think?

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/112250

Not entirely sure what this is aiming to achieve, but it will certainly mess around with pitstop strategies!

[Risil]

Fun.

 

Anyone else enjoy the thousand-yard stare in Paul Hembery's comment:

 

 

"From our point of view, yes we can do it but we need time to do it - because it changes completely the compounds that you use."

 

?

[F1ultimate]

This will require significant changes to the compounds in order for them to be instantly operational at ambient temperatures, or else I can't see how a driver coming out of the pits will be able to defend against those with boiling hot tires.

[dweller23]

This will require significant changes to the compounds in order for them to be instantly operational at ambient temperatures, or else I can't see how a driver coming out of the pits will be able to defend against those with boiling hot tires.

That's the point, isn't it, though?

[stewie]

Fun.

 

Anyone else enjoy the thousand-yard stare in Paul Hembery's comment:

 

 

?

 

Perhaps he should talk to his opposite at Firestone's Indycar department...

[dau]

This will require significant changes to the compounds in order for them to be instantly operational at ambient temperatures, or else I can't see how a driver coming out of the pits will be able to defend against those with boiling hot tires.

He won't be able to and he would have to learn to accept that. 

 

Will probably be shot down again, the idea isn't really that new. They'll likely tell us how it is completely impossible to drive on cold tyres, ignoring all the series that have been running without warmers for years. And someone's going to bring up a certain driver in 3..2..1...

[Clatter]

I'm all for it, but this has been mooted several times and each time has been shot because F1 finds it "too difficult" to do.

[ZionLH]

No tyre warmers in the Pirelli era    . Seriously what are these FIA dudes doing, seems like there having a group session smoking herb . You can't be sober thinking up this crap.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Why not? How does banning tire warmers hurt F1? They're meant to be best drivers in the word, but among the few that need pre-warmed tires...

 

It should be interesting on tire strategy. You would no longer gain by pitting one lap earlier. The fresher tire will be offset by it not being up to temperature.

[ollebompa]

No tyre warmers in the Pirelli era . Seriously what are these FIA dudes doing, seems like there having a group session smoking herb . You can't be sober thinking up this crap.

To me it seems as they are doing some synthetic stuff.
What bothers me is that it seems like a whole bunch of people has pursued a carrer in motorsport wilst they don't even like/understand it.

Edited by ollebompa, 23 January 2014 - 20:45.

[dau]

No tyre warmers in the Pirelli era    . Seriously what are these FIA dudes doing, seems like there having a group session smoking herb . You can't be sober thinking up this crap.

Fine, i'll bite. What have tyre warmers to do with the 'Pirelli era'?

[ZionLH]

Maybe i was abit harsh but do you honestly think Pirelli can build a contruction of tyre to sustain ambient temps . What if teams have a fundamental problem with this ,different cars heat up there tyres at different rates. I can also see it as a potential safety reason but maybe im being abit overcritical on that. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah, you are. All Pirelli are saying is you build the tire differently if you do or don't have tire warmers. They just need to know far enough ahead and make changes.

[dau]

Maybe i was abit harsh but do you honestly think Pirelli can build a contruction of tyre to sustain ambient temps . What if teams have a fundamental problem with this ,different cars heat up there tyres at different rates. I can also see it as a potential safety reason but maybe im being abit overcritical on that. 

GP2 runs Pirelli tyres and no tyre warmers, no problems there. Drivers know they can't floor it right out of the pit lane and that they'll struggle for half a lap or so. 

[xflow7]

I detest the double-points thing, I'm meh on the fuel rule, I'm skeptical about the cost cap, but this is a rule I can support.  One of the things that has always been a fun differentiator in Indycars is the how good the drivers are on cold tires after pitting.

[ZionLH]

So whats this mean for drivers who struggle to get tyre temps high, are they basically screwed.

[Jon83]

Just ban everything. 

[SealTheDiffuser]

Ban SEX! We know how those societys work!

[Exb]

It would make strategy interesting, they will lose the undercut if they pit early as they will be slower for a lap or 2 but if they pit a few laps later than a rival although they should have a bit of a gap after the stop they will be on cold tyres and slower so they will quickly be under pressure from those that stopped earlier and now have tyres up to temperature, it could be fun!

[pdac]

So whats this mean for drivers who struggle to get tyre temps high, are they basically screwed.

 

But surely it sets another challenge for the designers. They need to ensure that they design a car that can get the tyres up to temperature quickly no matter who is driving it.

[Ali_G]

Good.

[Dispenser89]

About time.

[CSquared]

I'd like the idea of drivers going out on cold tires, but I don't see how it's enforceable and there are just too many ways to "cheat." They'll be bringing mirrors, they'll be carefully placing tires next to certain machines, teams will complain that other teams have a garage with better sun which is being used with the aforementioned mirrors and some specially coated plates to give their tires a 60 degree headstart. It would be ridiculous. F1 is farcical enough already.

[Murl]

I'd like the idea of drivers going out on cold tires, but I don't see how it's enforceable and there are just too many ways to "cheat." They'll be bringing mirrors, they'll be carefully placing tires next to certain machines, teams will complain that other teams have a garage with better sun which is being used with the aforementioned mirrors and some specially coated plates to give their tires a 60 degree headstart. It would be ridiculous. F1 is farcical enough already.

Keep them in a pitlane fridge...or at least an insulated box, would cost all of $100 a team to make.

[Kingshark]

Thank God that this banned tyre warmers for 2014-onwards. Had they banned them in 2013, I cannot even begin to phantom how much problems Ferrari would have with tyre heating issues.

Edited by Kingshark, 24 January 2014 - 05:09.

[Jackmancer]

Will this significantly lower the costs?

[Ricciardo2014]

I'd like the idea of drivers going out on cold tires, but I don't see how it's enforceable and there are just too many ways to "cheat." They'll be bringing mirrors, they'll be carefully placing tires next to certain machines, teams will complain that other teams have a garage with better sun which is being used with the aforementioned mirrors and some specially coated plates to give their tires a 60 degree headstart. It would be ridiculous. F1 is farcical enough already.

 

V8 Supercar teams have no tyre warmers, and about the best they can do is put them in the sun.

 

I'll enjoy watching the drivers get them up to temp after a stop.

[MadYarpen]

Will this significantly lower the costs?

IMO not, tyre warmers are well developed

[ollebompa]

My issue with this is not the actual banning but the FIA is opening a can of worms here. Teams will just find other ways to heat tyres and they'll have their ass full policeing it.There will be conroversey and so on.

[SenorSjon]

Fine, i'll bite. What have tyre warmers to do with the 'Pirelli era'?

 

The tires would be shot before they even got up to temperature...

 

GP2 runs Pirelli tyres and no tyre warmers, no problems there. Drivers know they can't floor it right out of the pit lane and that they'll struggle for half a lap or so. 

 

Have you watched GP2? They save tires for the whole race and go bananas in the last few laps.

 

My issue with this is not the actual banning but the FIA is opening a can of worms here. Teams will just find other ways to heat tyres and they'll have their ass full policeing it.There will be conroversey and so on.

 

You had the same with the cooling of fuel. Colder fuel was cooling the engine and you can get more in the the fuel tank. That supercooling of fuel was also banned.

[MadYarpen]

My issue with this is not the actual banning but the FIA is opening a can of worms here. Teams will just find other ways to heat tyres and they'll have their ass full policeing it.There will be conroversey and so on.

 

They can always add another rule, like the tyres have to have air temperature.

 

My issue is that there is no serious point to ban it.

[jee]

How does banning tire warmers hurt F1?

Maybe you should ask that Alex Zanardi

[PayasYouRace]

Maybe you should ask that Alex Zanardi

 

Twice champion in a competitive world class series with no tyre warmers. With his general attitute to life, he'd approve.

 

Oh were you trying to insinuate that his unfortunate accident, in CART, on an oval, is somehow an inevitable result of not having tyre warmers in F1?

[ollebompa]

They can always add another rule, like the tyres have to have air temperature.

My issue is that there is no serious point to ban it.

It will lead to teams developing heat conductive patterns and coatings for rims as we have allready seen a bit last year. Very expensive to both develop and manufacture.

[LuckyStrike1]

No tyre warmers works perfectly fine in other single seater series. Of course it would work in F1 as well as long as the tyre manufacturer would know in good enough time to make tyres suitable for it. 

 

Being fast on cold tyres and being able to quickly get the tyres up in temperature at the start of a race or after a pit stop is a driver skill it would be nice to see be put to use in F1. 

 

I remember for instance how great Montoya was on cold tyres in CART/Champ Car. 

Edited by LuckyStrike1, 24 January 2014 - 09:26.

[dau]

Will this significantly lower the costs?

The numbers i remember were in the range of about half a million, that's cost of the tyre warmers plus having to transport them and extra generators around the globe.

 

The tires would be shot before they even got up to temperature...

 

 

Have you watched GP2? They save tires for the whole race and go bananas in the last few laps. [...]

 

No, they wouldn't. Pirelli would simply adjust their compounds.

 

Regarding GP2, sure, you'll see people conserving their tyres to optimise performance over the whole stint and then some others who don't get that concept, kill their tires in the first few laps to then struggle at the end. But that has nothing to do with tyre warmers. Also, it's not even generally true and mostly depends on the compounds chosen for the race.

 

Maybe you should ask that Alex Zanardi

...0. And there he is. Now that took a long time.

[dau]

I'd like the idea of drivers going out on cold tires, but I don't see how it's enforceable and there are just too many ways to "cheat." They'll be bringing mirrors, they'll be carefully placing tires next to certain machines, teams will complain that other teams have a garage with better sun which is being used with the aforementioned mirrors and some specially coated plates to give their tires a 60 degree headstart. It would be ridiculous. F1 is farcical enough already.

Sorry, but placing them next to machines or in the sun? Seriously? We're not talking granny's electric blanket here. Tyre warmers operate at something like 80-100°C, try getting that by placing them in the sun and having a team member turn them around every few minutes to get them to heat up evenly. You're probably thinking of some sort of tyre kebab grill right now, but try to explain to FIA how that isn't supposed to primarily heat your tires. "Uh, we thought the mechanics looked a bit pale, so..."?

Edited by dau, 24 January 2014 - 10:52.

[David1976]

Good move.  I think this could work.

[Fastcake]

I can't disagree with this. Everyone else manages fine without them and the drivers can warm the tyres up without much difficultly.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

I remember for instance how great Montoya was on cold tyres in CART/Champ Car. 

 

Or Senna. From countless examples: Monaco 1992. During the first lap he was very close to Mansell's FW14B on cold tyres (even quite a big gap between Senna and Patrese). Then, when tyre temperatures rose, there couldn't be done anything anymore, of course.

[GSiebert]

Is there a rule that says that at least one thing must change each year or they just can't help it ?

[eronrules]

i'm rooting for this, this will make pit exits more ... challenging, which is always good.

 

but this will necessitate a harder compound than current Cheese range. 

[eronrules]

It will lead to teams developing heat conductive patterns and coatings for rims as we have allready seen a bit last year. Very expensive to both develop and manufacture.

they'll do it (and are doing it) regardless of warmer, it has nothing to do with initial warm-up

[CSquared]

Sorry, but placing them next to machines or in the sun? Seriously? We're not talking granny's electric blanket here. Tyre warmers operate at something like 80-100°C, try getting that by placing them in the sun and having a team member turn them around every few minutes to get them to heat up evenly. You're probably thinking of some sort of tyre kebab grill right now, but try to explain to FIA how that isn't supposed to primarily heat your tires. "Uh, we thought the mechanics looked a bit pale, so..."?

I didn't say they'd get them to the same temperature as tire blankets, but any heat they get in there gets the tire to full temp faster on the track. I looked it up; asphalt in the sun can be 60 degrees hotter than ambient temp. If one team with a sunny garage space goes out with tires at 140 degrees F and another team's are 80 degrees F since their garage gets no sun, the first car's tires will get to temp sooner and they'll gain time on the track. I think this is obvious, right? Even in Spec Miata racing racers strategize about tires being in the sun as it affects performance.

 

And the part about explaining it to the FIA is exactly my point: will this be policed and how?

[Fastcake]

You know there's scrutineers in the garages right? You can't exactly hide a tyre warmer...

[CSquared]

You know there's scrutineers in the garages right? You can't exactly hide a tyre warmer...

My question is if and how they will police other ways of heating tires. See above posts.

[ElDictatore]

Err, did you guys read the whole article?

 

 

 

Further changes for 2015 include the fact that teams will no longer need to design and manufacture their own unique suspension and brake ducts, which should help reduce costs.

 

Is that just something they proposed or is this already known? I mean what the hell...

[Tapz63]

^ I hope that is just a suggestion and not actually gonna happen.

[ollebompa]

Err, did you guys read the whole article?

 

 

Is that just something they proposed or is this already known? I mean what the hell...

 

It's not a spec part though. Teams are just allowed to use a part they did not design themselves.Now you have to make your own suspension and brakeducts,witch you sitll can do under the proposed rule but it gives the option of buying. 

Edited by ollebompa, 25 January 2014 - 09:05.

[Akcy]

And hopefully everybody will crash at the ridiculous pitexit of AbuDhabi, no finishers, that'd be poetic justice.

Seriously though, finally a rulechange that I like.

Edited by Akcy, 25 January 2014 - 09:48.