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The history of UK Touring Car racing


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#51 kayemod

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 23:01

Probably to do with the money I pay Sir Richard Branson every month :)

 

No, Virgin Media has no connection with Sir Richard any more, he sold out to a US media conglomerate a while ago, coincidentally the same media conglomerate that had been rumoured to be thinking of making a bid for the present day farce that has become "Effwun".



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#52 Stephen W

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:20

No problem with the Freeview reception. I have to say that the second part did as Charlieman said have better footage but there again as he said there was more to choose from. As for concentrating on the incidents, I thought that was what BTCC Banger Racing was all about these days?

 

Interviews were excellent especial enjoyed seeing John Clelland.

 

BTCC did enter a new era once TV got involved with more money being poured in but that was the only difference with respect to the entries. Back in the 1960s and 1970s there was still 100% commitment from the teams and drivers they just didn't have the huge amounts to cash to flash.

 

One thing that did rankle was the mention of Grand prix drivers in the BTCC. There were a lot of saloon car drivers who made the occasional foray into F1 GPs - John Rhodes being one such. Then there were the F1 GP drivers who made more appearances in BTCC than Nigel Mansell - Jacky Ickx for example. Then there were drivers like Stirling Moss and Guy Edwards who spent full seasons in BTCC. Then lets not forget drivers like Roy Salvadori, Frank Gardner, David Hobbs and Jack Oliver who all notched up dozen upon dozen BTCC races.



#53 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:50

I have to agree with most of the comments on here that there was not enough early footage gathered for the first episode. Got fed up with the second when they laboured endlessly over the Cleland/Soper barging match at Silverstone with each party stoutly defending the indefensible, and turned off.



#54 David Wright

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:52

Richard Branson still appears on the adverts for Virgin Media so he has that connection at least.

 

Back on topic, I did watch the whole program so hopefully qualified to comment.  The first episode covered 20 years and this covered just 10 so each year is covered in more depth.  The same mixture of racing footage and interviews with the top drivers.  If you liked the BSCC/BTCC in the period 1985-95 its well worth watching.  If you don't then obviously not.



#55 kayemod

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 11:36

Richard Branson still appears on the adverts for Virgin Media so he has that connection at least.

 

 

I expect he needs the money to maintain the Caribbean island hideaway that he's retired to, "Every little helps".



#56 Bloggsworth

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:30

The thing I found most interesting was the ability of Murray Walker to commentate on a race without being there and making it appear as if he was commentating on live action - Very hard to do.



#57 alansart

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:47

 

 

Back on topic, I did watch the whole program so hopefully qualified to comment.  The first episode covered 20 years and this covered just 10 so each year is covered in more depth.  The same mixture of racing footage and interviews with the top drivers.  If you liked the BSCC/BTCC in the period 1985-95 its well worth watching.  If you don't then obviously not.

 

I watched both episodes back to back. Enjoyed the first but the second was a bit disappointing as there was too much emphasise on the start of Super Touring. I would much rather have seen more of the 70's and early 80's for which I'm sure there's some film around for. Some of those races were pretty spectacular with out have to go down the "Destruction Derby" route. 

On the plus side it's good to hear Win Percy's comments and Murray Walker's reputation just gets better  :)



#58 D-Type

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 15:19

~

One thing that did rankle was the mention of Grand prix drivers in the BTCC. There were a lot of saloon car drivers who made the occasional foray into F1 GPs - John Rhodes being one such. Then there were the F1 GP drivers who made more appearances in BTCC than Nigel Mansell - Jacky Ickx for example. Then there were drivers like Stirling Moss and Guy Edwards who spent full seasons in BTCC. Then lets not forget drivers like Roy Salvadori, Frank Gardner, David Hobbs and Jack Oliver who all notched up dozen upon dozen BTCC races.

And of course Jim Clark who won the 1964 BTCC driving a Lotus Cortina in the season between his two World Drivers' Championships.



#59 bradbury west

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 18:40

Not forgetting Peter  Arundell  and Michael Parkes

Roger Lund  


Edited by bradbury west, 15 February 2014 - 18:42.


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#60 Peter Darley

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 21:21

Not forgetting Peter  Arundell  and Michael Parkes

Roger Lund  

.....and Dan Gurney ,Chevrolet Impala 1961



#61 Stephen W

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:09

The thing I found most interesting was the ability of Murray Walker to commentate on a race without being there and making it appear as if he was commentating on live action - Very hard to do.


I thought Murray said that he went to the majority of the events even though he was putting the commentary on later.
 
 

And of course Jim Clark who won the 1964 BTCC driving a Lotus Cortina in the season between his two World Drivers' Championships.


Clark was mentioned in the first episode and I thought that they said that he was the last GP driver to run in BTCC before Bailey etc.

#62 Paul Parker

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 13:00

I have to agree with most of the comments on here that there was not enough early footage gathered for the first episode. Got fed up with the second when they laboured endlessly over the Cleland/Soper barging match at Silverstone with each party stoutly defending the indefensible, and turned off.

 

Me too and the aforementioned Cleland/Soper clash sums up for me most of what I find unacceptable about the last 20 plus years in professional touring car racing, together with the capacity limt, the anything but production saloon car fakes and the proliferation of FWD.



#63 Bloggsworth

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 13:29

I thought Murray said that he went to the majority of the events even though he was putting the commentary on later.
 

 

Rather the point don't you think? He attended merely as a spectator, not as a commentator, yet he managed to generate a level of excitement for the viewers several weeks later, sheer professionalism and not easy to do. Watch some races on the Motorsport Channel and you will hear commentaries which were so clearly laid down in a studio somewhere else that they are positively soporific.



#64 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 13:46

Clark was mentioned in the first episode and I thought that they said that he was the last GP driver to run in BTCC before Bailey etc.

I can think of several - Gardner, Hobbs, Elford, Oliver - and I'm sure there must be more.



#65 2F-001

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 18:43

After Clark, but before Bailey?
Moss.

#66 AAGR

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 22:14

And Graham Hill in Lotus-Cortinas ?



#67 elansprint72

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 00:06

As usual, I am obliged to the wise heads on this forum for their views on this TV "series". I watched the first episode with interest; I'll not bother with what came after.



#68 Stephen W

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:43

One thing that did rankle was the mention of Grand prix drivers in the BTCC. There were a lot of saloon car drivers who made the occasional foray into F1 GPs - John Rhodes being one such. Then there were the F1 GP drivers who made more appearances in BTCC than Nigel Mansell - Jacky Ickx for example. Then there were drivers like Stirling Moss and Guy Edwards who spent full seasons in BTCC. Then lets not forget drivers like Roy Salvadori, Frank Gardner, David Hobbs and Jack Oliver who all notched up dozen upon dozen BTCC races.

 

I can think of several - Gardner, Hobbs, Elford, Oliver - and I'm sure there must be more.


I'd forgotten Quick Vic!

#69 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:25

... and I forgot that you had already mentioned Gardner, Hobbs and Oliver. Sorry Steve. :blush:

#70 pete53

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:40

And Graham Hill in Lotus-Cortinas ?

Graham Hill was, I think, the last current GP driver to combine racing in the BTCC and doing F1, that being in 1967, the last season of works Lotus Cortinas. Ickx drove on several occasions that year in the Cortinas but he didn't have a proper F1 contract until the following season. Likewise, Vic Elford did 1967 and the beginning of 1968 in the Porsche 911 but I don't think his F1 career started until after his last race in the Porsche 911.

 

I have a very vivid memory of seeing Ickx and Hill throwing their Cortinas around Brands at the Guards meeting of 1967. In fact there is a short film on Youtube of the 1967 Oulton Gold Cup Saloon race where you see Hill and Ickx with wheels off the ground and Graham ending up in the lake. The last race the works cars did before being sold off. But I digress .....



#71 Alan Cox

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:58

...and Paul Hawkins, Lucien Bianchi, John Miles...



#72 Tim Murray

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:59

Likewise, Vic Elford did 1967 and the beginning of 1968 in the Porsche 911 but I don't think his F1 career started until after his last race in the Porsche 911.

Good point, Pete.



#73 nicanary

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 13:14

Jack Brabham in the Mustang......And I've just found...Peter Gethin in a Camaro at Silverstone in '67, together with "Geki", Giacomo Russo, in an Alfa GTA.


Edited by nicanary, 17 February 2014 - 13:20.


#74 Morris S

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 18:01

Denny Hulme in a Cooper S , ditto Bruce McLaren and Trevor Taylor.



#75 David Wright

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 21:27

I don't think they did say Clark was the last F1 driver.  What they said was Winkelhock was the first grand prix driver to win the championship since Jim Clark.


Edited by David Wright, 17 February 2014 - 23:26.


#76 sterling49

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 13:29

[

Denny Hulme in a Cooper S , ditto Bruce McLaren and Trevor Taylor.


Still remember Trevor Taylor finishing 2nd overall in the Broadspeed 1300 G.T. Escort at the ETC round at Brands with Fitz.....they nearly won overall ! Only beaten by the might of Bayerische Motor Werkss with a 2002Ti Turbo driven by Hahne and Quester, they were seconds behind.

#77 bradbury west

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 13:36

Talking of Bruce McLaren reminds me of his drive in the Isuzu Bellett at Goodwood in 1965... IIRC of course, and Denny Hulme piloted a Jaguar 3.8 in the 1963 Motor 6hr race. Does it count to mention JYS in a Lotus Cortina at Sebring?

Roger Lund

 

BTW in terms of a sublime  performance in a saloon car, remember Jackie Oliver's meteoric drive and supreme display of car control in the little BMW 700 at the Revival a couple of years ago.


Edited by bradbury west, 18 February 2014 - 13:48.


#78 sterling49

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 14:17

I do Roger, but more fond of his drives in the D.R. Fabrications Mustang, which I believe Black Jack drove previously, one of the ex Alan Mann cars.

#79 Alan Cox

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 18:13

I do Roger, but more fond of his drives in the D.R. Fabrications Mustang, which I believe Black Jack drove previously, one of the ex Alan Mann cars.

Hear, hear!

Speaking of which, here is "Black" Jack in the Mustang

brabhammustangsep65.jpg



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#80 sterling49

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 18:50

Fabulous photo as usual Alan ( thanks Eddie), interesting to note that this is before the age of the Alloy wheel too.....next time you are travelling, count how many cars you can spot on steels !

How times change.......

77so.jpg

Edited by sterling49, 18 February 2014 - 19:06.


#81 racer69

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:26

I don't think they did say Clark was the last F1 driver.  What they said was Winkelhock was the first grand prix driver to win the championship since Jim Clark.

 

Which was incorrect too, given that Frank Gardner had won the title after Clark.



#82 Alan Baker

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:55

Fabulous photo as usual Alan ( thanks Eddie), interesting to note that this is before the age of the Alloy wheel too.....next time you are travelling, count how many cars you can spot on steels !

How times change.......

77so.jpg

 As I was nearly hit last week by a flying wheel trim from a car in front which hit a large pot hole, I think it is safe to say that there are a lot of steel wheels out there (virtually all of the bottom end of the market), it's just that they all have quite convincing "fake alloy" plastic wheel trims.

 

I seem to remember that when Black Jack was racing the Alan Brown Mustang in 1966, he once watched the first race of a televised meeting at home before flying himself to the circuit for the saloon car race!



#83 chr1s

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 22:28

I can think of several - Gardner, Hobbs, Elford, Oliver - and I'm sure there must be more.

Gabriele Tarquini



#84 TimRTC

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 22:39

Rob Austin?

 

10019352886_014167a0c6_z.jpg
Racing driver/movie star Rob Austin by Tim R-T-C, on Flickr