145 replies to this topic

[F.M.]

So it's pretty clear that Red Bull is the top team that got it very wrong atm, with Ricciardo saying there's no quick fix for their issues and that Adrain has flown back to get back to the drawing board.
They still have time to fix it of course, but it will put them on the back foot. Instead of putting their resources in the Melbourne and Barcelona spec upgrades, they have to put a lot of resources again into the basic development and design of their car.

The other question to be answered now is which midfield team has got it all very right this year. Williams does look pretty decent and the Marussia looks like a nicely designed and packaged car

Edit: source http://uk.eurosport....442344--f1.html

Edited by F.M., 30 January 2014 - 18:55.

[Maustinsj]

Was Ricciardo smiling when he said this?

[Coops3]

This is excellent news. Apologies to any Red Bull fans, I'm just bored of Vettel winning all the time!

 

By no means am I writing them off however.

[Kingshark]

Was Ricciardo smiling when he said this?

 

Difficult to imagine anything else.

[Nigol]

I bet they will topping the time sheets in Bahrain.

[Cyanide]

I agree. Best thing that could happen to F1 right now. 

 

No offence, but enough of Red Bull already. Time for another team to step up, and if it's reliability that's going to decide the title, so be it. Merc and Ferrari look reliable enough so far. 

 

RBR could still be competitive, so it would be a mistake to write them off. But at least now they're on the backfoot. 

[Buttoneer]

I'm not discounting Red Bull.

 

I think the lack of testing will put them on the back foot, but I expect the car to be incredibly quick with regular front-row starts, but to not make it to the chequered flag as regularly as the others.  Their 2009 performance might be worth looking at.  Question is, which team takes the place of the Brawn?

[senna da silva]

Don't worry, the last three races will be worth double points. 

[4MEN]

So it's pretty clear that Red Bull is the top team that got it very wrong atm, with Ricciardo saying there's no quick fix for their issues and that Adrain has flown back to get back to the drawing board.
They still have time to fix it of course, but it will put them on the back foot. Instead of putting their resources in the Melbourne and Barcelona spec upgrades, they have to put a lot of resources again into the basic development and design of their car.

The other question to be answered now is which midfield team has got it all very right this year. Williams does look pretty decent and the Marussia looks like a nicely designed and packaged car

Edit: source http://uk.eurosport....442344--f1.html

You joined the forum in '08. You should know already that looks has nothing to do with performance.

[Burtros]

Don't worry, the last three races will be worth double points. 

 

Nicely put. It not all over until November remember everyone.

 

I'd be delighted to see the dominance broke, it was reasonable to expect that to happen this year but for them to be right in the mix. Its very hard to believe they wont be at all despite how bad it looks right now. We have yet to see the car's pace.... and they will find a way to deliver that at some point in testing I am sure. Its a question of how long it lasts at that pace, I think.

[Sukhoi]

This is excellent news. Apologies to any Red Bull fans, I'm just bored of Vettel winning all the time!

 

By no means am I writing them off however.

 

This ! though I feel quite sad for Riccardo.. Hopefully Renault will fix the problem till Bahrain , quite a relief that RB10 has it's own problems with overheating but stil i wouldn't like to see CTR/TR/LT on the bottom 

Edited by Sukhoi, 30 January 2014 - 19:07.

[hollowstar]

As much as I'd like to see another team winning, I don't think we should count on these early glitches for that. If anyone is able to fix an issue in record time, it's Adrian Newey.   If any team is able to do that lately, it's Red Bull. And they happen to be working together.  

[Option1]

I'm no Red Bull fan, but I do have to laugh at those who get upset that the team has produced the best car for the past few seasons.  As has been said repeatedly by others, it's not Red Bull's fault, the others need(ed) to lift their own game.  It's racing and the best designed car has the advantage, as it should.

 

Neil

[FullThrottleF1]

Red Bull is coming to win the title, why bother debating it?

[skc]

Wait, so does this mean Newey is not the genius everybody thought he was?

 

If the success of the RedBull thus far has all been down to Newey, can we thus conclude that he will therefore be responsible for their terrible showing this coming season?

 

Hmm.

[Gilles4Ever]

"@andrewbensonf1: Ricciardo clearly meant Newey was going back to the actual drawing board (the one in his office) rather than a metaphorical one incidentally"

[Richard T]

Red Bull RB10 = "Red Bull are bea-ten"
Numbers "1"3" on the side of their motorhome.

I think this says it all 

Edited by Richard T, 30 January 2014 - 19:21.

[FullThrottleF1]

Why you have an almost unlimited budget, the best designer in the history of F1 and one of the fastest developing teams on the grid, how can you possibly be beaten?

[F.M.]

"@andrewbensonf1: Ricciardo clearly meant Newey was going back to the actual drawing board (the one in his office) rather than a metaphorical one incidentally"

I got that, but the literal and metaphorical drawing board are the same in this case

[Coops3]

"@andrewbensonf1: Ricciardo clearly meant Newey was going back to the actual drawing board (the one in his office) rather than a metaphorical one incidentally"

Don't mean to nitpick Benson, but isn't the meaning the same either way, given that's where the metaphor comes from??

[senna da silva]

Wait, so does this mean Newey is not the genius everybody thought he was?

 

If the success of the RedBull thus far has all been down to Newey, can we thus conclude that he will therefore be responsible for their terrible showing this coming season?

 

Hmm.

 

Newey's record speaks for itself and his successes far outweigh his failures, but he has had failures in the past, most notably the MP4-18.

[pdac]

Wait, so does this mean Newey is not the genius everybody thought he was?

 

If the success of the RedBull thus far has all been down to Newey, can we thus conclude that he will therefore be responsible for their terrible showing this coming season?

 

Hmm.

 

No, just that he's made the mistake of believing the people who proclaim him to be better than he is. He's pushed things to the limit in the past and got away with it. This time he has not. A bit of a reality check. I'm sure he'll do a little redesign and come up with an elegant solution (just not as elegant as the first one - if it had worked).

[BullHead]

A design fix, no problem. Last round of testing they'll be at the top again. Ok, missing the running by wasting this time might mean that not all issues are ironed out come Melbourne. But hey RB have missed test rounds before, remember 2010? I don't think there will be one team that doesn't have an issue or two sort out as the season starts.

[Maustinsj]

"@andrewbensonf1: Ricciardo clearly meant Newey was going back to the actual drawing board (the one in his office) rather than a metaphorical one incidentally"

 

[demet06]

Everyone seems convinced that Red Bull will be dominant again. It may take longer than you think. The problems are with Renaults powertrain. Just look at the time sheets for today. Vergne managed 30 laps but the other 3 Renault powered cars have no times and not many laps. Having heard them on Sky's report, they sounded like broken down lawn mowers. It seems that Renault have some work to do before Red Bull can become dominant again. Its the old addage, to finish first, first you must finish.

On the other hand, Mercedes powered cars look and sound pretty good despite the misgivings about how the V6 turbos would sound. All the Merc teams had some decent runs, McLaren in particular did 92 laps. Ferrari had decent runs again too. I know there's a long way to go before Melbourne but Renault are a long way behind and a lot of catching up.

Just as an afterthought, it looks like Williams pulled a masterstroke switching to Mercedes.

[Gilles4Ever]

Don't mean to nitpick Benson, but isn't the meaning the same either way, given that's where the metaphor comes from??

Not quite the metaphor usually means  you got the plan completely wrong and you have to start/plan/design again from scratch.. 

 

I somehow don't see a redesign, manufacture and build in two weeks. Newey has gone back to move/enlarge/shield components and/or body parts to sort out the cooling. Time consuming and an unnecessary extra for them but not the end of the world or something they will have to devote days to. 

[bourbon]

I think it is a Molehill meet Mountain situation at this time.  If RBR are still having problems in the final Bahrain test, then it will be remarkable.  Until then, well, this is what tests are for. Same for Lotus actually. 

 

In reality, all of the teams seem to have had some issues.  Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are clicking along fairly well for the most part, but there is still some dusting off to be done. 

Edited by bourbon, 30 January 2014 - 19:45.

[midgrid]

I'm not discounting Red Bull.

 

I think the lack of testing will put them on the back foot, but I expect the car to be incredibly quick with regular front-row starts, but to not make it to the chequered flag as regularly as the others.  Their 2009 performance might be worth looking at.  Question is, which team takes the place of the Brawn?

 

Having missed the first test, it must be Lotus!

[st99]

Having missed the first test, it must be Lotus!

 

Seeing that RBR's problem is mainly about the powertrain and they share the same one, I doubt it.

[Zoetrope]

 

I think the lack of testing will put them on the back foot, but I expect the car to be incredibly quick with regular front-row starts, but to not make it to the chequered flag as regularly as the others.  Their 2009 performance might be worth looking at.  Question is, which team takes the place of the Brawn?

Brawn.

[DutchQuicksilver]

As much as I'd like to see another team winning, I don't think we should count on these early glitches for that. If anyone is able to fix an issue in record time, it's Adrian Newey.   If any team is able to do that lately, it's Red Bull. And they happen to be working together.  

McLaren MP4-18 and MP4-19.

[Andrew Hope]

Having missed the first test, it must be Lotus!

 

MALDONADO/GROSJEAN 2014 WCC

[0Fritz]

Everyone seems convinced that Red Bull will be dominant again. It may take longer than you think. The problems are with Renaults powertrain. Just look at the time sheets for today. Vergne managed 30 laps but the other 3 Renault powered cars have no times and not many laps. Having heard them on Sky's report, they sounded like broken down lawn mowers. It seems that Renault have some work to do before Red Bull can become dominant again. Its the old addage, to finish first, first you must finish.

On the other hand, Mercedes powered cars look and sound pretty good despite the misgivings about how the V6 turbos would sound. All the Merc teams had some decent runs, McLaren in particular did 92 laps. Ferrari had decent runs again too. I know there's a long way to go before Melbourne but Renault are a long way behind and a lot of catching up.

Just as an afterthought, it looks like Williams pulled a masterstroke switching to Mercedes.

 

Reliability aside, we havent had a decent lap in anger from the RB10 yet so I dont have a clue whether the car will be dominant or not. Regarding the testing headlines: iirc Red Bull didnt top even one testing day last year and everyone raved about the Mercedes, but come Melbourne qualifying, Vettel put 6 tenths on the next best non Red Bull car. And as we saw in 2012, even if Red Bull starts slow the first 6 races, they have an amazing in season development capability. I do agree that the one weak link might be the Renault engine, but sofar its hardly been in a position to show its performance. Lets wait a bit more before writing off Red Bull or Renault.

 

(I hope Williams will be great this season!)

[seahawk]

I do not see how the Caterham and the RBR are connected apart from the engine. All Renault powered cars sound unhealthy when they try to drive one lap. 

[MP422]

Reliability aside, we havent had a decent lap in anger from the RB10 yet so I dont have a clue whether the car will be dominant or not. Regarding the testing headlines: iirc Red Bull didnt top even one testing day last year and everyone raved about the Mercedes, but come Melbourne qualifying, Vettel put 6 tenths on the next best non Red Bull car. And as we saw in 2012, even if Red Bull starts slow the first 6 races, they have an amazing in season development capability. I do agree that the one weak link might be the Renault engine, but sofar its hardly been in a position to show its performance. Lets wait a bit more before writing off Red Bull or Renault.

 

(I hope Williams will be great this season!)

 

 

This isn't 2012 or 2013. You cannot compare evolution to a complete redesign. These engines are not frozen like they were in the previous regs.

[LoudHoward]

Renault sounded confident that their issue was a reasonably quick fix, and it sounded like RBR were trying to jury rig something to get themselves going, so they must've thought that while it was a problem, it was something that was almost doable (fixable) at the track. Doesn't sound like the most awful of problems, but I guess we'll see.

[Newbrray]

I'm not discounting Red Bull.

 

I think the lack of testing will put them on the back foot, but I expect the car to be incredibly quick with regular front-row starts, but to not make it to the chequered flag as regularly as the others.  Their 2009 performance might be worth looking at.  Question is, which team takes the place of the Brawn?

 

The team that bought it

[LuckyStrike1]

Well I think it's safe to say that Red Bull won't dominate this season. Win? Maybe, maybe not. But dominate just flew out the window. 

[Newbrray]

Why you have an almost unlimited budget, the best designer in the history of F1 and one of the fastest developing teams on the grid, how can you possibly be beaten?

 

By not having your own engine department and having to listen to some French guys why they couldn't understand your simple instruction on what you require for packaging

[Longtimefan]

Don't worry, the last three races will be worth double points. 

So what if RBR have a terrible start to the season and Seb wins the WDC but only due to the double points races..

[MP422]

By not having your own engine department and having to listen to some French guys why they couldn't understand your simple instruction on what you require for packaging

 

Well, this is the whole bit about RBR... they are the works team, shouldn't the package have been designed around them so to speak. Get what i'm saying ? This was "The Advantage for 2014" we heard it time and time again.... If they were to aggressive with their ambitions this could be the big problem. Hybrid systems too aggressive + Chassis design too aggressive = two problems.

Edited by MP422, 30 January 2014 - 21:41.

[JHSingo]

Feel a bit sorry for Ricciardo. Is he going to have the same problem Perez had at McLaren last year? Steps up to a top team just as they produce a turkey.

[dau]

Gearbox:  Red Bull Technologies

 

http://www.caterhamf1.com/cars/the-car

 

pretty sure the same holds for STR, as well

 

They have the same internals, but a custom casing as far as i am aware.

[slmk]

Feel a bit sorry for Ricciardo. Is he going to have the same problem Perez had at McLaren last year? Steps up to a top team just as they produce a turkey.

 

Why would feel sorry? Nothing in life is guaranteed...

[scheivlak]

Why you have an almost unlimited budget, the best designer in the history of F1 and one of the fastest developing teams on the grid, how can you possibly be beaten?

By overconfidence?

[Tenmantaylor]

Don't understand why RB are getting so much flack when it's clearly Renault who've made a boo-boo. If the other Renault teams were cruising around then maybe credible.

[JHSingo]

Why would feel sorry? Nothing in life is guaranteed...

 

Because I'd quite like to see what the guy can do in a top car. I like seeing fresh faces at the front of the grid, and it's a pity Ricciardo won't be able to show his full potential should Red Bull's problems continue.

[Brother Fox]

This is excellent news. Apologies to any Red Bull fans, I'm just bored of Vettel winning all the time!

 

What a pathetic attitude.

 

You should be criticising Ferrari/Merc/McLaren/Lotus for not being as good not waiting for the best to fail.

The 'boring' last few years are Ferrari & Merc's fault, not Red Bulls.

[Claudius]

By not having your own engine department and having to listen to some French guys why they couldn't understand your simple instruction on what you require for packaging

Yeah that must be it.

Never mind that Renault as an engine supplier have won more than any other manufacturer in the last 25 years.

WDC and/or WCC in 92,93,94,95,96,97,05,06,10,11,12,13.

 

Now suddenly they are some French guys who don't understand simple instructions.

Pffft....

[MP422]

Don't understand why RB are getting so much flack when it's clearly Renault who've made a boo-boo. If the other Renault teams were cruising around then maybe credible.

 

 

If Mercedes or Ferrari were having the same issues who's made a Boo boo ? RBR are a works team just the same. Get it ??