Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 10 votes

Renault problems are catastrophic


  • Please log in to reply
2884 replies to this topic

#1 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:05

http://thejudge13.co...ng-jerez-day-3/

This is unbelievable :o the engines can't be fixed until the British Grand Prix with Renault needing approximately 22 weeks to rectify current problems. Engines can't be pushed over 75% of their performance or failures inevutable. Gotta feel for Toro Rosso...persisting with Ferrari for years then switch to the almighty Renault...

And Red Bull...well what do you say. Poor Ricciardo.

Advertisement

#2 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,842 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:08

20 weeks? I'll take that with salt.

 

Besides qualifying, when will they ever use 100% of powertrain capacity?


Edited by Atreiu, 30 January 2014 - 22:11.


#3 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,323 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:10

http://thejudge13.co...ng-jerez-day-3/

This is unbelievable :o the engines can't be fixed until the British Grand Prix with Renault needing approximately 22 weeks to rectify current problems. Engines can't be pushed over 75% of their performance or failures inevutable. Gotta feel for Toro Rosso...persisting with Ferrari for years then switch to the almighty Renault...

And Red Bull...well what do you say. Poor Ricciardo.

 

Hoping this article is complete rubbish. Where does the blogger get their 20 weeks to fix details from anyway. I am sure if this was the case Ted would mention it. I admit it is not looking good for Renault but 20 weeks to fix.

 

They may as well not bother this season if this does turn out to be true. Will likely be the end of Caterham in F1 as well.



#4 Jackmancer

Jackmancer
  • Member

  • 2,800 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:12

Sure, believe everything you read on the internet.



#5 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 601 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:14

Hoping this article is complete rubbish. Where does the blogger get their 20 weeks to fix details from anyway. I am sure if this was the case Ted would mention it. I admit it is not looking good for Renault but 20 weeks to fix.

 

They may as well not bother this season if this does turn out to be true. Will likely be the end of Caterham in F1 as well.

As I mentioned in another thread, he is very rarely wrong and has great relationships with those in the factories of many teams. 2 weeks ago he said that Renault were in trouble and Red Bull weren't going to do many laps and no one said anything of it, yet he was correct (and he's been right about many things that no one else picks up on).

 

That blog is a great way to get information about the world of F1 and is very rarely incorrect :) For what it's worth, I won the James Allen Spa competition (2012) and he was a fellow winner; he knows his stuff.



#6 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 6,326 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:15

Seems like this article has some made up BS in it (or has a really good source), but it does seem like things are looking grim for Renault teams, at least for the time being.


Edited by wingwalker, 30 January 2014 - 22:16.


#7 alfa1

alfa1
  • Member

  • 1,776 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:15

 Will likely be the end of Caterham in F1 as well.

 

Would also be the final nail in the coffin for Lotus.

(assuming they actually make it to Melbourne anyway)



#8 F.M.

F.M.
  • Member

  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:16

:rotfl: :rotfl:

2 year engine development and they can't run more than 250km? This 'article' is utter bull****

Also funny how he knows all these facts nobody else knows, but isn't sure whether Newey and Horner have returned to the factory ( "it being reported that")

#9 Jackmancer

Jackmancer
  • Member

  • 2,800 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:18

Also funny how he knows all these facts nobody else knows, but isn't sure whether Newey and Horner have returned to the factory ( "it being reported that")

 

Well, Ricciardo said it himself.

 

I don't know, I think they can make a new layout of the electronics for the car, test it in the factory and then put it to work in Bahrain.

 

If there's limited running in Jerez, Newey is of better use at the factory at least.



#10 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,406 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:19

I find it hard to believe that Renault could get it that wrong.

 

Though I do wonder if that engine Cosworth have built will come in handy.



#11 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 601 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:19

:rotfl: :rotfl:

2 year engine development and they can't run more than 250km? This 'article' is utter bull****

Also funny how he knows all these facts nobody else knows, but isn't sure whether Newey and Horner have returned to the factory ( "it being reported that")

What about 2 weeks ago when he said Renault were in trouble and Renault teams wouldn't be doing much running during the test?
 

And what about the day before the test when he said that Red Bull won't be doing much running on Day 1?

 

The guy knows his stuff. I've followed his site for the past 6 months and can't recall a time he's been wrong. He predicted 2 weeks before Silverstone that Lotus would run passive DRS on at least 1 car and 2 days before Friday practice they announced they would.



#12 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 963 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:20

The "20 weeks" is a little too specific for me to take this seriously.

 

If he had simple said "my sources say it might take a while to sort out" I might have been inclined to believe that more.



#13 wingwalker

wingwalker
  • Member

  • 6,326 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:22

Well if he has an inner exclusive source (most likely at Renault, reading Goron3 posts) then Renault are ****ed, and we'll be hearing about it tomorrow from other sources. I'm sceptical.


Edited by wingwalker, 30 January 2014 - 22:22.


#14 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:22

Well...Renaukt has told teams 250km max for Jerez, 56 laps pver 4 days? They have massive dramas. 20 weeks seems to me like they need to alter everytging from the ground up. Some people suggesting not running with the ERS, first i dont think its legal and secondly they'd be 3 seconds a lap off the pace.

Toro Rosso is currently sitting on 45 laps so if they complete only 11 tomorrow then thay pulls into line the 250km report.

Ps ill give some people some advice, Ted isn't the messiah.

#15 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,729 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:23

These guys said Raikkonen would sign for Ferrari and when it would be announced. When they first said it, it was equally LOL funny.

 

They turned out to be exactly right.



#16 SUPRAF1

SUPRAF1
  • Member

  • 365 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:28

We won't know anything until it becomes known what the exact problem is. I highly doubt the entire Engine+Recovery unit doesn't work because Renault would have tested it rigorously on a dyno or something. So my guess is the problem lies somewhere with attaching the unit to a car (not sure what it could be).

 

Maybe they tried to do something really nifty which didn't work out and have to back track.



#17 4MEN

4MEN
  • Member

  • 1,556 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:34

Sure, believe everything you read on the internet.

The blogger cannot spell correctly the name Magnussen (Magnusson, Magnussun) so his credibility is pretty low to me.



#18 F.M.

F.M.
  • Member

  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:35

What about 2 weeks ago when he said Renault were in trouble and Renault teams wouldn't be doing much running during the test?
 
And what about the day before the test when he said that Red Bull won't be doing much running on Day 1?
 
The guy knows his stuff. I've followed his site for the past 6 months and can't recall a time he's been wrong. He predicted 2 weeks before Silverstone that Lotus would run passive DRS on at least 1 car and 2 days before Friday practice they announced they would.

The 20 weeks and especially the 250km sound unbelievable to me. 2 years development and only being able to run the engine for 10% of their lifespan at 75% of their power (that's 450bhp)? Even a highly tuned 1.6L road car engine could manage that.

Edited by F.M., 30 January 2014 - 22:41.


#19 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:36

erm, thats a pretty low reason to disregard someone who might have inside information, spelling a Danish name might not be the highest priority.



Advertisement

#20 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,759 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:37

If it's true that the engine cannot be pushed to it's maximum capacity, this isn't the first time this has happened to Renault. Pretty much the same thing occurred when they introduced their 111 degree engine in 2001. I recall the Benettons cruising around in Australia, several laps down and sounding dog sick.



#21 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,406 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:37

20 weeks seems to imply a serious fundamental flaw in the engine or ERS or whatever. I find it hard to believe that such a flaw wouldn't have revealed itself on the dyno or test bench in the last couple of months.



#22 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,323 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:39

20 weeks seems to imply a serious fundamental flaw in the engine or ERS or whatever. I find it hard to believe that such a flaw wouldn't have revealed itself on the dyno or test bench in the last couple of months.

 

You would think so. If this issue really is as big as this blogger is making out then people need to be sacked at Renault, and I am not normally one to call for such action.



#23 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,842 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:43

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/112368

 

How many weeks until Bahrain, 3? What are the odds of Renault finding a magic bullet by then? I still think 20 sounds too precise and somehow exagerated, but I won't be surprised if Bahrain 1 ends with them still having issues.

 

Anyhow, I'll never count the Red Bull + Vettel + Renault trio out.



#24 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:43

Wow, what a s**t storm. To be fair to this blogger, they pre-empted the difficulties that the Renault teams would have.

#25 F.M.

F.M.
  • Member

  • 5,577 posts
  • Joined: April 08

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:43

OTOH: White recently said they made some conservative choices to start testing and the season with, with certain parts/developments not fully race-ready yet and finishing races was the priority.
But this would mean even the conservative version of their engines is _way_ too high risk. That just can't be right.

Edited by F.M., 30 January 2014 - 22:45.


#26 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,406 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:49

There are multiple issues then. RBR's cooling issues are obviously more down to the packaging, with Adrian Newey's famous aggressive design. But I would have though that the software issues would be something that would be most easy to overcome before a car had even turned a wheel as it could be simulated easier.

 

Seems like a whole massive cluster****. A perfect storm of problems. Suggestions that RBR and Renault were going to try something clever are now not seeming so unusual.



#27 Jyllenberg

Jyllenberg
  • Member

  • 70 posts
  • Joined: December 12

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:51

Really hope this is not true. It would jinx the season too much.

 

And the fate of Lotus, Toro Rosso and Caterham is hanging on thin wire.



#28 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:53

I don't believe that '20 weeks' story, but it's pretty obvious this is snafu for the Renault teams. 



#29 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,414 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:55

The idea of seeing Vettel run around as a backmarker for a bit is hardly a concern. =)

 

Lotus and Caterham created their own problems.  Red Bull will continue.



#30 fisssssi

fisssssi
  • Member

  • 1,021 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 30 January 2014 - 22:55

Well Seb had 9 wins on the trot, it was always going to be a stretch to push that into 2014.



#31 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:00

Its 10 days til cars need to be sent to Bahrain (according to Ted) so nothing can be done in the short term, same can be said for Red Bull, id say they would aim to have a temporary fix ready for 2nd Bahrain and flyaway races with hopefully implementing a b spec or proper car in Spain

#32 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:01

To be honest I'm starting to doubt the details of that blog. In later comments the author talks about Renault planning on pootling around on the ice only which I really don't think is possible as they won't be able to make distance on the fuel without the ERS.

#33 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,105 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:01

They are clearly in difficulty, however it is really hard to imagine Renault's problems are that severe...



#34 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:04

He does also say that Ferrari are a long way behind Mercs engine too.

#35 tai.lur

tai.lur
  • New Member

  • 5 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:04

20 weeks for an engine sounds off.  Renault would have had to do durability testing on the dyno and they would not have shipped if something was off.  Between the simulator and the dyno something should have been discovered. 



#36 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,774 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:07

This is all a ruse, Renault will make "reliability" upgrades that will make their engine more driveable, economical, and powerful than Merc and Ferrari! You heard it here first!!


(I'm kidding)



#37 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,323 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:07

He does also say that Ferrari are a long way behind Mercs engine too.

 

Well going off the lap times and speed traps this week he could be right.



#38 LoudHoward

LoudHoward
  • Member

  • 1,313 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:12

This'll be an interesting thread to return to in a few months. Anyways, I'm of the opinion that the blogger is overstating the problems. If 8 cars virtually can't run until the British GP...lol, seems too outlandish to me.



#39 Tombstone

Tombstone
  • Member

  • 1,018 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:12

The "20 weeks" is a little too specific for me to take this seriously.

 

If he had simple said "my sources say it might take a while to sort out" I might have been inclined to believe that more.

 

A nice round number that equates to, near enough, half a season.

 

I don't necessarily believe the figures, but to doubt a turn of phrase on the basis of exactitude is equally nonsensical.



Advertisement

#40 ZionLH

ZionLH
  • Member

  • 768 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:14

He does also say that Ferrari are a long way behind Mercs engine too.

Who the hell is this guy, has he got inside info.



#41 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:15

It may not turn out to be as bad as it seems, but there 'is' a problem, and the latest Renault statement from Renault saying there will be a fix for Bahrain sounds like PR drivel. Reminds me of McLaren with the 26 and 28 during winter testing.



#42 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 11,366 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:16

 

 

Lotus and Caterham created their own problems.  

And Red Bull didn't?



#43 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:16

He does also say that Ferrari are a long way behind Mercs engine too.

 

Can you point that bit out, I can't find it.



#44 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,708 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:17

Can you point that bit out, I can't find it.

It's in the comments section under the main post.



#45 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:19

Quick food for thought, it strikes me as obvious now but...Eric Boullier said he knew for a fact another top team won't be testing at Jerez...maybe Lotus deliberately missed Jerez to give the factory more design time knowing that at least Red Bull would have minimal running...seems odd that they were equal first in launching their car (albeit just a render) yet were unable to make the test...starting to make sense now.

#46 SamH123

SamH123
  • Member

  • 1,189 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:21

This blog says he knew Renault had issues before the test on Monday and even knew it was Crankshaft issues.

I don't think the rest of us knew then so does seem like he has access to some decent insider info



#47 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,202 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:21

Can you point that bit out, I can't find it.


Sorry, it wasn't the author actually, was someone in the comments, made a mistake. I'd be taking all this talk with a huge pinch of salt. However, the evidence on the track is fairly damning.

#48 Buttoneer

Buttoneer
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 16,456 posts
  • Joined: May 04

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:23

This blogger has put his money where his mouth is.  This news is too big to stay quiet for long as 75% is an extreme deficit and will be very noticeable for the rest of testing and certainly during early race weekends.

 

If he's right, I'll add him to my faves and RSS feed.  If he's not, well he deserves all the scorn he will undoubtedly get.



#49 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,708 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:24

Sorry, it wasn't the author actually, was someone in the comments, made a mistake. I'd be taking all this talk with a huge pinch of salt. However, the evidence on the track is fairly damning.

The commenter is a writer for the site, however, so he is perhaps basing this claim on the same evidence.



#50 rage2

rage2
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 30 January 2014 - 23:26

This blog says he knew Renault had issues before the test on Monday and even knew it was Crankshaft issues.

I don't think the rest of us knew then so does seem like he has access to some decent insider info

He definitely has inside info, this isn't the first time that he's been right about things.

 

Here's the post he made a day before the Jerez tests regarding Renault issues with crankshaft, it's the last news item:

 

http://thejudge13.co...h-january-2014/

 

For those who are tired of seeing Red Bull Racing romping away with both Driver’s and Constructor’s championship...
 
TJ13 has learnt that Renault are having trouble with their engine, specifically the crankshaft and it was described as a flaw. For months now TJ13 have been hearing rumours of a certain team having problems with their engines and that they just could not make it last.
 
This has to do with the internal vibrations that a V6 engine creates as apposed to a V8, the latter running much more smoothly. Add in the complexity of the turbo harvesting power as well as KERS… Tomorrow we may see Renault (and perhaps other engined teams) circulating at relatively low speeds so if track times appear slow, it is because they are ;) 
 
Maybe Williams F1′s move to Mercedes was a inspired moved, then again...

Edited by rage2, 30 January 2014 - 23:28.