58 replies to this topic

[Otaku]

06:59 He says he always expected reliability issues and noise concerns, describing the situation as "a total farce" 06:58 Ecclestone has some stern words about the sport's latest turbocharged era

 

 

Lol, and the double points fiasco is not a farce.... right?   

[Otaku]

http://www.gpupdate....-a-total-farce/

 

     

[Slackbladder]

06:59 He says he always expected reliability issues and noise concerns, describing the situation as "a total farce" 06:58 Ecclestone has some stern words about the sport's latest turbocharged era

 

 

Lol, and the double points fiasco is not a farce.... right?   

 

 

Bernie is yesterday's F1.

 

I like this new formula already, it's shaking things up, and it's very interesting tech.

[wingwalker]

Bernie ""They talk about saving fuel. They don't need these new engines to achieve that. They should get smaller motorhomes. Then they wouldn't need so many trucks going all round Europe. Mercedes are taking 23 trucks with them everywhere. If they really wanted to save fuel they should stop that."

 

he does have a point there.

[Jackmancer]

he does have a point there.

 

No he doesn't. Fuel saving in F1 isn't actually about how much fuels the cars use in the races, it's about the development in the technology. F1 needs to stay relevant, and low-consumption engines are relevant, hence Honda is back.

[bonjon1979a]

he does have a point there.

yes he does, but there's also an argument that the advances the manufacturers make in terms of efficiency trickles down to road cars (maybe...) and he also seems to be forgetting that manufacturers were ready to pull out because there was no road relevance to the V8 engines. We wouldn't have a grid if things hadn't've changed. Now we have Honda coming back in, talk of cosworth too...

[Lazy]

http://www.gpupdate....-a-total-farce/

 

     

He really is an idiot.

[Tourgott]

No he doesn't. Fuel saving in F1 isn't actually about how much fuels the cars use in the races, it's about the development in the technology. F1 needs to stay relevant, and low-consumption engines are relevant, hence Honda is back.

 

That was the attempt - to bring back Honda, Toyota, BMW and even VW. But obviously they failed. Yes, Honda is back but was that really worth the millions? Not to mention the fact that the V6's suck.

[bonjon1979a]

That was the attempt - to bring back Honda, Toyota, BMW and even VW. But obviously they failed. Yes, Honda is back but was that really worth the millions? Not to mention the fact that the V6's suck.

 

I think this new formula has the potential to be quite interesting and let's wait and see with regards to the manufacturers. It's early days yet and I really don't see how they could keep using engines that were technologically decades behind.

[wingwalker]

No he doesn't. Fuel saving in F1 isn't actually about how much fuels the cars use in the races, it's about the development in the technology. F1 needs to stay relevant, and low-consumption engines are relevant, hence Honda is back.

I'd say saving fuel and being "relevant" is nothing but PR as F1 cars as about as road relevant as F-16's, but let's not go off topic.


Is there a site with a lap number count? How are Renault teams doing?



edit: From As Live

1 Rosberg (Mercedes) 1m37.580s, 49 laps
2 Magnussen (McLaren) 1m38.391s, 19 laps
3 Massa (Williams) 1m39.256s, 13 laps
4 Alonso (Ferrari) 1m39.999s, 16 laps
5 Juncadella (Force India) 1m41.925s, 8 laps
6 Kvyat (Toro Rosso) 1m44.016s, 8 laps
7 Sutil (Sauber) 1m44.224s, 21 laps
8 Kobayashi (Catherham) 1m44.859s, 15 laps
9 Ricciardo (Red Bull) 1m45.374s, 7 laps
10 Bianchi (Marussia) 1m48.192s, 5 lap

Edited by wingwalker, 31 January 2014 - 10:21.

[SanDiegoGo]

http://www.gpupdate....-a-total-farce/

 

     

 

 Aww, Bernie's pet team isn't doing well and now F1 is a joke.

[bonjon1979a]

Aww, Bernie's pet team isn't doing well and now F1 is a joke.

Yeh, are we surprised he wants double points for three races at the end of the season now?

[Slackbladder]

 Aww, Bernie's pet team isn't doing well and now F1 is a joke.

 

Bernie does seem to have been awfully 'close' to Red Bull in the past..

[Bartonz20let]

I'd say saving fuel and being "relevant" is nothing but PR as F1 cars as about as road relevant as F-16's, but let's not go off topic.

 

 

Not really, loads of manufacturers are making small 1.6 turbo engines (with decent bhp) and hybrid vehicles, this tech (or adaptations of it) is going to be useful in the real world

[jcbc3]

Bernie is yesterday's F1.

...

 

This.

 

And the sooner he and his pay masters realise, the better.

[Boing 2]

I'd like to see someone impartial back up that '23 trucks' statement because 23 articulated lorries is actually quite a lot for a single team, I'd wager you could fit most of the factory into that.

[Donkey]

Nico did a 72 lap run today and Mercedes said fuel saving was no issue.

 

Not as bad as feared? Although it damp conditions so not running as fast as in the dry.

 

And yes this tech is more relevant to the modern automotive industry, certainly moreso than spending millions on silly things like exhaust blown diffusers or F-ducts.

[Clatter]

Not really, loads of manufacturers are making small 1.6 turbo engines (with decent bhp) and hybrid vehicles, this tech (or adaptations of it) is going to be useful in the real world

Manufacturers were doing these things long before the rules changed. F1 is mirroring what is happening in the real world, but that doesn't mean their racing solutions will have any road relevance. It hasn't in the past and there's no reason to think it will now.

[dau]

 Aww, Bernie's pet team isn't doing well and now F1 is a joke.

Huh? Agree with him or not - i don't - but that is exactly what he was saying ever since the new engines were decided on. He didn't change his tune and this hasn't anything to do with a 'pet team'. 

[Massa_f1]

I hardly ever agree with Bernie on anything, and his double points idea is stupid. However I strongly agree about the engine sound. It is really quieter then I was expecting. When a driver takes his foot of the gas going into a corner its sometimes almost silent.

 

Funny thing is a lot of fans wanted these rule changes for closer racing. In my opinion the gap between the cars performance is going to be the biggest we have seen in nearly 20 years. Yup that's closer racing.

 

They should never of got rid of the V8, but that's just my opinion and going off these forums I suspect I may be alone in that opinion.

Edited by Massa_f1, 31 January 2014 - 12:03.

[Jon83]

I agree with Bernie.

 

I also agree with Massa_f1's post.

[peroa]

No he doesn't. Fuel saving in F1 isn't actually about how much fuels the cars use in the races, it's about the development in the technology. F1 needs to stay relevant, and low-consumption engines are relevant, hence Honda is back.

Nothing in the current Power unit is really new stuff, road cars have been running this tech for years.

[peroa]

I hardly ever agree with Bernie on anything, and his double points idea is stupid. However I strongly agree about the engine sound. It is really quieter then I was expecting. When a driver takes his foot of the gas going into a corner its sometimes almost silent.

 

Funny thing is a lot of fans wanted these rule changes for closer racing. In my opinion the gap between the cars performance is going to be the biggest we have seen in nearly 20 years. Yup that's closer racing.

 

They should never of got rid of the V8, but that's just my opinion and going off these forums I suspect I may be alone in that opinion.

Not just that, they will have to tiptoe around because of the tyres AND becasue of the fuel limit.

[dau]

Nothing in the current Power unit is really new stuff, road cars have been running this tech for years.

What, with electric turbo compounding? No, they haven't.

[Seanspeed]

No he doesn't. Fuel saving in F1 isn't actually about how much fuels the cars use in the races, it's about the development in the technology. F1 needs to stay relevant, and low-consumption engines are relevant, hence Honda is back.

But there wont be any engine development. F1 becomes relevant to road cars when it allows development. This is why during the last era, with the engine freeze and the main area of development was aerodynamics, there was little to no relevance. What F1 has done now is installed a nifty hybrid powertrain that cant be developed and will again not be relevant beyond the initial research that went into it.

This just seems like one of those times where 'compromise' just results in a lose-lose situation for everybody. They want F1 to be relevant, but they also want to control costs by stopping teams from getting into a development race. This compromise achieves nothing. Its only exciting for me because of the 'new rules' changing things up.

[CHIUNDA]

sounds like Christian Horner's mouth piece at full throttle :-)

[peroa]

What, with electric turbo compounding? No, they haven't.

Direct injection - check

Turbo - check

hybrid - check

brake harvesting - check

 

Harvesting energy from the turbo isn't really anything sci-fi to write home about.

F1 is at least 10 years late with this stuff, they are not the innovators here, they are just implementing it so there is a link to what's going on in the real world.

[dau]

Direct injection - check

Turbo - check

hybrid - check

brake harvesting - check

 

Harvesting energy from the turbo isn't really anything sci-fi to write home about.

F1 is at least 10 years late with this stuff, they are not the innovators here, they are just implementing it so there is a link to what's going on in the real world.

I didn't mention DI, turbos, hybrid or brake harvesting, i mentioned electric turbo compounding, which is pretty sci-fi considering road cars have not been running this for years.

[Henri Greuter]

Read that bernie suggested that if they wanted to use less fuel and a more green image they could have taken along less trucks to the tracks.
Also about his concerns that because of less loud engines people will stay away.


if it comes to fuel efficienty in transportation: then why not combine the Canadian and US Grand Prix? (and the Brazilian?)
And much less impressive hospitality suites etc in the paddock, won't thar reflect too bad on F1 suffering from the crisis too by now?

And as for his concern about people staying away...
Wasn't it the intention to raise entry fees to such levels that people wouldn't go to tracks anymore since they can't afford it anymore thus stayed home to watch TV?
Pay TV by the way, all behind decoders.
All of that organized and of which the revenues go to, among others: Bernie?

Let him moan and bitch on, the more he has to moan, the better it likely will be for the general race fan.

Henri

[Wiggy]

I'd like to see someone impartial back up that '23 trucks' statement because 23 articulated lorries is actually quite a lot for a single team, I'd wager you could fit most of the factory into that.

I was at Spa and he's correct this time. I was shocked how many trucks were parked up down at Pouhon... lotus and Mercedes trucks were there, all gleaming and lined up in perfect lines. Really shocked to see them all like that, the rest of the teams must have been elsewhere. I think the big teams bring so many for all the garage kit and spare parts, and then the huge motor homes use loads of trucks to setup and furnish.

[Nemo1965]

I won't take any opinion Bernie expresses seriously untill he has put forward a substantial step to solve the financial inequality that plagues F1. Everything else is of second rate importance.

 

Nemo out.

Edited by Nemo1965, 31 January 2014 - 13:07.

[rhukkas]

I won't take any opinion Bernie expresses seriously untill he has put forward a substantial step to solve the financial inequality that plagues F1. Everything else is of second rate importance.

 

Nemo out.

 

F1 has just undergone a regulation that change that more than EVER puts the advantage firmly into the hands of the major manufacturers. 

 

and Bernie is only reflecting a viewpoint that many many many fans have expressed.

Edited by rhukkas, 31 January 2014 - 13:09.

[toofast]

What, with electric turbo compounding? No, they haven't.

 

The only innovation.

[superden]

Red Bull leave the party early and BE's anxiety about the new regulations suddenly heads for the stratosphere.

[Jon83]

I won't take any opinion Bernie expresses seriously untill he has put forward a substantial step to solve the financial inequality that plagues F1. Everything else is of second rate importance.

 

Nemo out.

 

I presume you'll treat all the other opinions the same then? Because generally, he is saying them same as many others.

[03011969]

Yeh, are we surprised he wants double points for three races at the end of the season now?

What he should do is half the number of points currently given for each position, then give double points for every race.

[aditya-now]

 Aww, Bernie's pet team isn't doing well and now F1 is a joke.

 

That's exactly the point with Bernie - and RBR have started complaining of costs being too high.... farcical in the extreme.

 

They didn't have any compassion for the less affluent teams before.

[Atreiu]

Bernie can go screw himself.

[juicy sushi]

he does have a point there.

 

Yes, but that's more related to overall resouce use by teams.  Which could be better, and would be if FOM, under Bernie's direction, planned a better schedule that was more travel friendly, and also if they stopped buying up all the hotels and logistics stuff to force the teams to pay significantly above market rate.  Many of the economic problems facing the series are Bernie-induced.  But let's not let blistering hypocrisy get in the way of his opinions...

[ExFlagMan]

So Bernie is upset about the no of trucks the teams take around Europe.
I guess that goes some way to explaining why he has done his best to reduce that by swapping more and more European races for races all round the world - after all getting the equipment back and forth to those places take no fuel at all!

[Nemo1965]

I presume you'll treat all the other opinions the same then? Because generally, he is saying them same as many others.

 

No, you presume wrongly. It is not about you or other posters, it is about Bernie who has no right in my eyes to express any opinion on F1 if he does not sort out (or tries to sort out) the problem he created: the fact that there is a financial monopoly in F1, that protects the excisting winning teams against new competition (new teams that could win).

 

Any sport has problems, F1 has several but I don't think anyone on this board or in F1 will disgree that any sport has to start with even the smallest hint of 'competition'.

 

I think that a good F1 journalist should do a Paxman with Bernie, but then with the question: 'Mr. Ecclestone, that was about fuel/points/engine sound/whatever, but how should F1 - and especially you - solve the financial monopoly in F1 of the big teams?'

[spacekid]

I don't understand how Bernie is showing such favouritism to Red Bull, when his double points idea seemed explicitly aimed at preventing Seb from wrapping up the title early (and presumably giving someone else the chance to scoop a lucky final race points overhaul?)

I thought Ferrari were the team he was biased towards?

Don't mind me, I don't know anything.

FWIW as usual with Bernie I partly agree with him, partly think he's tongue in cheek oblivious to his own nonsense (ex Flag Mans comment about the fuel cost of lugging F1 to various deserted deserts is a good one) but mostly amused at the outrage his every utterance causes on the forum. It's Bernie, he says a lot of rubbish, usually because he's got something else brewing in the background. I'd have thought we'd all be used to it by now.

Edited by spacekid, 31 January 2014 - 16:22.

[CHIUNDA]

I don't understand how Bernie is showing such favouritism to Red Bull

I am guessing this some form of denial?

Don't mind me, I don't know anything.

Can we agree with you?

[Bartonz20let]

Manufacturers were doing these things long before the rules changed. F1 is mirroring what is happening in the real world, but that doesn't mean their racing solutions will have any road relevance. It hasn't in the past and there's no reason to think it will now.

 

I guess we'll find out in about 5-10 years, if Merc, Ferrari & Renault start building small block turbo's that recycle the turbo's energy, you can buy me a drink ;)

 

EDIT: however you look at it, 750bhp from a 1.6 is incredibly efficient, I'm certain some of the knowledge gained from these engines will be use din the future in the real world

Edited by Bartonz20let, 31 January 2014 - 18:18.

[study]

Well didn't Honda place all its junior Engine people in the F1 engine development, and once they'd gained experience graduated them up to the main company.

 

Thats another way of using F1 technoloy.

[CHIUNDA]

So Bernie is upset about the no of trucks the teams take around Europe.I guess that goes some way to explaining why he has done his best to reduce that by swapping more and more European races for races all round the world - after all getting the equipment back and forth to those places take no fuel at all!

It cannot be an truly global sport if its only run in Europe. But yeah that doesn't stop Bernie from being a hypocrite :-)

Edited by CHIUNDA, 31 January 2014 - 18:34.

[spacekid]

I am guessing this some form of denial?


Can we agree with you?

Tell you what, instead of being snarky why not address the points I made?

[Shambolic]

I hardly ever agree with Bernie on anything, and his double points idea is stupid. However I strongly agree about the engine sound. It is really quieter then I was expecting. When a driver takes his foot of the gas going into a corner its sometimes almost silent.

 

Funny thing is a lot of fans wanted these rule changes for closer racing. In my opinion the gap between the cars performance is going to be the biggest we have seen in nearly 20 years. Yup that's closer racing.

 

They should never of got rid of the V8, but that's just my opinion and going off these forums I suspect I may be alone in that opinion.

 

Sadly not alone, but thankfully possibly in the minority.

 

What is so great about an engine that was brought about as a means of cheaply reducing power (by "chopping" two cylinders off) from already aging V10s? It's the Amish approach - You've chosen an arbitrary cut off point at which you like things, and have no desire to see actual improvement, development or change.

 

I want to see F1 be what it has always been supposed to be - A challenge set to the teams to build as good a package as they can withinthe rules given, and the best drivers trying to extract the most from them. I loathe performance balancing of engines, specification designs, and other anti competition rules, and if it means one year an engine manufacturer, or chassis builder, gets it supremely right, then so be it.

 

Engine noise is wasted energy, and volume is not always related to performance. So you want engines that run deliberately inefficiently so they sound "nice", as the pinnacle of racing machinery?

 

Bernie is pandering to a certain mindset, when perhaps the sport and its promotional chief should be explaining why an actual contest between manufacturers of components and cars, is a good thing.
 

[peroa]

I don't understand how Bernie is showing such favouritism to Red Bull, when his double points idea seemed explicitly aimed at preventing Seb from wrapping up the title early (and presumably giving someone else the chance to scoop a lucky final race points overhaul?)

I thought Ferrari were the team he was biased towards?

Don't mind me, I don't know anything.

FWIW as usual with Bernie I partly agree with him, partly think he's tongue in cheek oblivious to his own nonsense (ex Flag Mans comment about the fuel cost of lugging F1 to various deserted deserts is a good one) but mostly amused at the outrage his every utterance causes on the forum. It's Bernie, he says a lot of rubbish, usually because he's got something else brewing in the background. I'd have thought we'd all be used to it by now.

No success (let alone embarrasment as it currently seems) means no Didi in F1, and success to Didi means WDC+WCC, not to mention that Didi can pull 2 teams out with the blink of an eye.

Ferrari, mac etc. won't quit because of this, so he has to keep Didi happy.

[study]

Well two teams shouldn't be allowed anyway and with redbull out maybe they could get on with the cost cutting and introduce more teams again.