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2014 adjustable boost, KERS?


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#1 chunder27

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 21:59

OK back in the day a driver could adjust the boost on turbo cars.

 

Is this possible now?  Can you run low early on to save fuel then turn it up?  I realise there is a sort of push to pass deal with the ERS, but could you combine this with more turbo boost?

 

Can you run max in qually like the old days? I am guessing you could, and then turn down for races for fuel consumption, then mayeb spots in the race where you might need more boost, strategy, lapping etc?

 

Ted mentioned something in the notebook about no Kers button, so how on earth are they able to apply it?  How is it measured for the requisite seconds?  I gather it is linked to the throttle pedal, well that doesnt sound like something you select?

 

 



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#2 MatsNorway

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 22:40

Can`t comment on the boost aspect but i doubt it. ;)

 

But there will be fuel maps for Qualy. Unless some big rule chance has been made from last year.

 

Why is that you say?

 

Well you can still run that little bit of off throttle blowing they had left, this would aid in keeping the turbo spooled up.

 

Depending on the KERS stuff.. Say actuated by brake pedal one could run engine with the throttle and then brake it with KERS to keep the boost up and the charge for the straight ready.



#3 alexbiker

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 10:18

They won't need to brake it with the ERS-K to keep the boost up - they can just keep the turbo spinning with the ERS-H MGU and not waste fuel doing it. Fuel is the limit on total energy this year.

I doubt they'll adjust the boost directly - essentially that was a variable wastegate to dump excess pressure from the turbo. You don't want to do that this year - what you'd do is increase the energy harvest from ERS-H, dragging the turbo slower and lowering the boost that way.

#4 MatsNorway

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:02

they can just keep the turbo spinning with the ERS-H MGU and not waste fuel doing it. Fuel is the limit on total energy this year.

And then you would be wasting battery energy ideally used for the straight? Where talking Qualifier here. Fuel tank limits is irrelevant.


Edited by MatsNorway, 02 February 2014 - 12:03.


#5 Ali_G

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:18

On a slightly different angle, someone on the forum mentioned the possibility of a push to pass system.

Obviously, there is a fuel flow limiter between the engine and tank. Can't remember who posted it, but someone came up with the idea of having a small reservoir just past the fuel flow limiter. This reservoir would slowly fill and could be emptied via a button on the steering wheel to give a momentary boost in power.

I'm not sure if this would actually be allowed in the regulations or if it would merely be against the spirit of the regulations.

#6 alexbiker

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 16:56

And then you would be wasting battery energy ideally used for the straight? Where talking Qualifier here. Fuel tank limits is irrelevant.


Still a fuel flow limit that limits max power. The interview with Renault's chief designer on sky stated the wastegate is only present as a safety feature to prevent an overboost destroying the engine.

#7 MatsNorway

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 20:15

I am talking about off throttle blowing. Seen the previous years and seen likely this year in qualifier. Fuel flow is not relevant as it happens under braking. Fuel limit total is not relevant either as its only about 2-3laps.



#8 alexbiker

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 22:43

I can see a role for off throttle blowing to keep the turbo spinning - not for lag, but to charge the energy store via ERS-H.  Input from ERS-K is limited to 2 MJ per lap but from the ERS-H it's unlimited, as is direct energy from ERS-H to ERS-K - although I don't see how you would do that under braking.

 

Fuel flow is not relevant: hmm - I'm wondering how they're measuring flow - at what interval.  



#9 Wuzak

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 23:07

On a slightly different angle, someone on the forum mentioned the possibility of a push to pass system.

Obviously, there is a fuel flow limiter between the engine and tank. Can't remember who posted it, but someone came up with the idea of having a small reservoir just past the fuel flow limiter. This reservoir would slowly fill and could be emptied via a button on the steering wheel to give a momentary boost in power.

I'm not sure if this would actually be allowed in the regulations or if it would merely be against the spirit of the regulations.


Any measure to circumvent the fuel flow regulation is expressly forbidden.

#10 Wuzak

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 23:11

I can see a role for off throttle blowing to keep the turbo spinning - not for lag, but to charge the energy store via ERS-H.  Input from ERS-K is limited to 2 MJ per lap but from the ERS-H it's unlimited, as is direct energy from ERS-H to ERS-K - although I don't see how you would do that under braking.
 
Fuel flow is not relevant: hmm - I'm wondering how they're measuring flow - at what interval.


You would need to use fuel to power the MGU-H. There won't be enough energy from off-throttle blowing.

FWIW, Renault suggested that under braking the MGU-H would recover energy from the turbo's momentum.

#11 Wuzak

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 23:20

And then you would be wasting battery energy ideally used for the straight? Where talking Qualifier here. Fuel tank limits is irrelevant.


Energy transfer from the ES to the MGU-H is unlimited.

#12 gruntguru

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:28

FWIW, Renault suggested that under braking the MGU-H would recover energy from the turbo's momentum.

That's interesting. Better to harvest the KE from the turbo (spooling it down in the process) then spool it back up again after the corner, than to leave it spinning for immediate throttle response and lose energy via internal drag?



#13 Wuzak

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:25

That's interesting. Better to harvest the KE from the turbo (spooling it down in the process) then spool it back up again after the corner, than to leave it spinning for immediate throttle response and lose energy via internal drag?

 

If you don't I guess a blow off valve would be required?

 

The other part of teh equation was that slowing the turbo builds up back pressure in the exhaust and helps to brake the engine.



#14 Wuzak

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:31

This Cosworth graph, taken from http://forums.autosp...23#entry6572589, is interesting.

pMHl9vv.jpg

 

 I think that suggests that the engine should be kept above 8000rpm wherever possible, since above 8000rpm there is usefule exhaust energy being recovered.

 

At peak power for the combined ICE + MGU-H the MGU-H is contributing around 110hp. Higher in the rpm range it seems to be slightly more.



#15 gruntguru

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 00:20

A small reduction in peak power from 2013 but a massive increase in power band width. Of course best fuel efficiency may restrict the usable rpm somewhat.



#16 desmo

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:34

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