60 replies to this topic

[BillBald]

 

and

 

 

Yeah OK sorry, but come on: Maldonado was not really less impressive from the get-go in 2011 against Barrichello compared to Hülkenberg. I mean... Maldonado. Having in mind that he is probably not the most highly considered in that Perez-Grosjean-Bottas-Hülkenberg group...

 

And please don't say that it was Barrichello's last season when Maldonado had to face him. Was Barrichello really that much better in 2010 where Hülkenberg had the "stronger version of Barrichello" than Maldonado in 2011? I mean it wasn't so that Hülkenberg competed against a muuch fresher and better Barrichello than Maldonado.

 

And I think Hülkenberg is also not really better than the likes of Grosjean (it was, for example, very even in GP2 in 2009 between them before Grosjean was appointed to higher spheres during that season (--> F1)).

 

I think he was. Rubens went into 2010 full of optimism and determination, convinced that his experience and feedback could revive Williams as a top team. I remember him saying as much. The 2011 car shattered his illusions.

Edited by BillBald, 04 February 2014 - 13:06.

[noikeee]

 

and

 

 

Yeah OK sorry, but come on: Maldonado was not really less impressive from the get-go in 2011 against Barrichello compared to Hülkenberg. I mean... Maldonado. Having in mind that he is probably not the most highly considered in that Perez-Grosjean-Bottas-Hülkenberg group...

 

And please don't say that it was Barrichello's last season when Maldonado had to face him. Was Barrichello really that much better in 2010 where Hülkenberg had the "stronger version of Barrichello" than Maldonado in 2011? I mean it wasn't so that Hülkenberg competed against a muuch fresher and better Barrichello than Maldonado.

 

And I think Hülkenberg is also not really better than the likes of Grosjean (it was, for example, very even in GP2 in 2009 between them before Grosjean was appointed to higher spheres during that season (--> F1)).

Drivers develop at different rates. I agree Hulk's rookie season wasn't much different from Pastor's rookie season, vs the same driver in the same team, but I've since seen Hulk develop whilst Pastor stayed much the same, lots of mistakes, good pace but inconsistent, etc. Notice both were head-to-head in the past (in GP2) and then Hulk won pretty convincingly. I know who I rate higher of those 2.

 

I also think the Grosjean/GP2 comparison you made there is misleading - Romain was on his 2nd year of GP2 then whereas Hulk was a rookie. Hulk also had a much better 2nd half of the year then once Romain was gone, as he grew in confidence in the car as a rookie. Hulk has a history of taking a bit to warmup before performing great.

 

Notice Romain himself is the same - he's grown a lot last year. I'd probably still pick Hulk above him if I'd want to hire a driver, but it's not as easy a decision now as it'd be a while ago.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

@ BillBald

@ noikeee

 

Considering how much di Resta is slammed here, Hülkenberg wasn't really that much better than him. And he was in his second season as well when they became teammates in 2012 (so no experience advantage for di Resta) And Gutierrez? Not a real competition to be honest...

 

Anyway, I guess we'll have a good picture of the situation how the competition between Hülkenberg and Perez develops. We'll see, if Hülkenberg is really that much better than him... OK, Hülkenberg was good in India (or was it in South Korea?) where he left Alonso and Hamilton behind him, but no one can say, if he could've shown the performance of Perez in Malaysia 2012 and Monza 2012... At least top teams (Ferrari, McLaren) became interested in him due to 2012. Strange that the same cannot be said of Hülkenberg during 2013.

 

Btw: I would've wished that Grosjean and Hülkenberg became teammates in 2014 in F1... Maybe sometime in the future...

[Mohican]

Forgetting Grosjean and Hulkenberg, who are no longer rookies in any sense of the word, and getting back on topic: everybody appears to expect Magnussen junior to outpace Button and fight for wins more or less immediately. It very seldom works out like that. Even drivers who are much hyped can do nothing much if the car does not allow it . Bottas last year, for example, hardly set the world alight. Hamilton 2007 is simply not relevant, due to the change in testing regulations since then.

 

Looking at Magnussen, Kvyat and Ericsson (like anybody else) you have to factor in the car. Maybe the new McLaren really is good; it is bound to be better than last year at least. Whether the same can be said about STR and Caterham is less clear. Certainly vdGarde at the start of 2013 looked no better than Ericsson does now.

[sopa]

I am not sure, how to rate Magnussen. But maybe it doesn't matter now, let's see what the season brings as it's close anyway.

 

McLaren seems pretty convinced in him and some may even think he might be the most impressive rookie since many years. However, based on junior series evidence I am not convinced he is quite on Hamilton level even if he is made out to be. On the other hand I don't know, what exactly McLaren is thinking. Maybe they don't really consider him a match to Hamilton, but they an upgrade over Perez, in long-term. So he could fit in inbetween. Another option is McLaren got calculations wrong and Kevin is like Jan.

 

Kvyat is only 19 years of age and seems good based on what he has done. New Vettel or perhaps new Alguersuari, who joined F1 at 19 and had won British F3 beforehand? It looks like Kvyat (like Magnussen) has some talent, but the question is "how much talent?", because many drivers have talent, yet only few of them make it to the top, most of them remain "promising".

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

Forgetting Grosjean and Hulkenberg, who are no longer rookies in any sense of the word, and getting back on topic: everybody appears to expect Magnussen junior to outpace Button and fight for wins more or less immediately. It very seldom works out like that. Even drivers who are much hyped can do nothing much if the car does not allow it . Bottas last year, for example, hardly set the world alight.

 

It so depends on the car, if you are invisible or not (even if you have a real mighty teammate). If the MP4-29 is a standout of a car, he can emulate Button (I don't see any barriers just because he's a rookie...) and maybe beat him (remember DHill in 1993 in all the races where he didn't have DNFs... he followed Prost like a shadow in most cases and a few times too much for my taste was even infront of him... in a much worse car the difference between Prost and Hill in the race would've been much bigger for Prost).

 

If it's a difficult car it's much more difficult (look at Bottas... in a much better car (RedBull), he would've done very well (at least as much as good as Webber), he wouldn't have been invisible and everyone would've taken notice of him despite of Vettel) and if he can beat Button in a difficult car, then he will be one of the best rookies.

 

If it's a car of one of the two best teams in a season (apart from let's say Mercedes or Ferrari or RedBull) and he is better than fourth or third in the WDC table (which can happen, if he's really a very good rookie despite little testing time), he is outstanding and if he achieves even more than that he'll overtake Hamilton in becoming the absolute best rookie ever and could be even considered after the end of season 2014 one of the very best drivers right now in F1.

[Mc_Silver]

Kevin Magnussen is the one for me cuz he will drive for my favourite team and I believe he has huge potential. I don't expect him to beat Jenson in his rookie year but I'm sure he will give him some hard times during the season. Especially, from the second half of the season. 

 

Magnussen and Kvyat could be the next Hamilton and Vettel for the near future. 

[Brandz07]

Kvyat & Magnussen 

 

Voted for Kvyat but wanted to vote both..

[Jimisgod]

My guess is:

 

MAG: ~100 points

 

KVY: ~10 points

 

ERI: 0 points

[Kingshark]

If the McLaren is 2007 fast, Magnussen will score >200 points and several wins, easily. On the other hand, if the new MP4-29 turns out to be 2013-slow, he probably won't do much better than Perez did.

 

Kvyat I have never seen race, so I can't make a judgement. Nevertheless, I expect him to beat JEV in qualifying over the season, who is one of the worst drivers over one lap in F1 currently.

 

As for Ericsson, I can't wait for the rivalry between him and Chilton.

Edited by Kingshark, 12 February 2014 - 05:31.

[Mohican]

Obviously Magnussen simply has to do well, otherwise McLaren will look like proper idiots for ditching Perez for him.

 

The one I think actually WILL do very well is Kvyat, as the RB management has even more riding on him; Vergne risks being overshadowed early n.

 

As for Ericsson, I want him to do well simply because you are all so extremely negative about him. And he is Swedish - like Ronnie.