42 replies to this topic

[ollebompa]

Reading some of his statements recently got me wondering.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/112399

 

 

http://www.reuters.c...N0L53LQ20140131

 

 

http://www.cityam.co...ays-eccelstone?

utm_source=website&utm_medium=TD_sport_right_col&utm_campaign=TD_sport_right_col

 

To me these seem like the words of someone who belong in an insane asylum. 

Edited by ollebompa, 04 February 2014 - 20:20.

[loki]

Yes...

 

 

 

To both.

[pizzalover]

Why insane? Candid perhaps. He is just stating what a lot of fans choose not to believe. It is and always has been imperative to give Ferrari as much of "a hand" as possible.

 

F1 is NOT a sport. A level playing field is not part of the business model. 

[Timstr11]

Somenone here on the forum ut it nicely the other day

 

Why insane? Candid perhaps. He is just stating what a lot of fans choose not to believe. It is and always has been imperative to give Ferrari as much of "a hand" as possible.

 

F1 is NOT a sport. A level playing field is not part of the business model. 

 

He's not trying to give Ferrari anything. He just likes to be provocative with silly statements like these.

The points thing is simply to maximize TV viewership and ultimately his and CVC's income. Nothing more.

 

Edit:

With Ferrari being the iconic and most popular team on the grid, I'm sure he would like to see them winning again, as that would also help him to maximize his and CVC's income. 

Edited by Timstr11, 04 February 2014 - 20:35.

[ollebompa]

Somenone here on the forum ut it nicely the other day

 

 

He's not trying to give Ferrari anything. He just likes to be provocative with silly statements like these.

The points thing is simply to maximize TV viewership and ultimately his and CVC's income. Nothing more.

 

It's not just the Ferrari thing. The level of contradiction between all his statements is astounding.

[pacificquay]

Much as I don't like the double points thing - take a look at the new NASCAR system - absolutely insane!

[Timstr11]

It's not just the Ferrari thing. The level of contradiction between all his statements is astounding.

Fully agree. As someone said it on this forum the other day, ''Bernie likes to appeal to the uneducated''. Can't explain it.

 

F1 is a strong brand today, but it's mostly because of what individual teams have been doing to maintain the high profile of the sport.

It's just sad that Bernie and CVC have been able to and are still able to drain the sport from a lot of its income.

Edited by Timstr11, 04 February 2014 - 20:47.

[turssi]

He is right about helping Ferrari with the double points.

He wants to keep the championship open until the end and Red Bull's main challenger since the last four years has been none other than Ferrari!

[icecream_man]

Yes...

 

 

 

To both.

Exactly what I was going to put !

Edited by icecream_man, 04 February 2014 - 22:52.

[Juan Kerr]

Fully agree. As someone said it on this forum the other day, ''Bernie likes to appeal to the uneducated''. Can't explain it.

 

F1 is a strong brand today, but it's mostly because of what individual teams have been doing to maintain the high profile of the sport.

It's just sad that Bernie and CVC have been able to and are still able to drain the sport from a lot of its income.

...uneducated or plain stupid? Educated people can very often be stupid and vice versa, just wanted to remind us all of that in this instance.

[Petroltorque]

He's probably preparing a "Guinness" defence for his upcoming trial. But seriously he's not put much thought into his dictats. The championship will remain open as long the teams are evenly matched. As long as a team gains a performance advantage the championship won't get to a championship finale.

[boldhakka]

He knows exactly what he's doing. 

[slideways]

 

Ecclestone said of Ferrari chief Luca di Montezemolo: “He was talking about it and I said: ‘It is very simple why we got that [double points rule]. It is because you aren’t performing. If you were doing what you should be doing there wouldn’t be any need for it.’ He said: ‘I know, I know.’”

 

 

I still like him. I can't imagine the pleasure he must have felt at deflating Luca's ego for even a nanosecond. 

[LuckyStrike1]

Yes to both. But making Montezemolo look ridiculous is at least a plus. 

[Lazy]

He knows exactly what he's doing. 

He used to.

[tifosiMac]

Nothing Bernie says these days is worth the paper its written on. The sooner he is sent down and out of the public eye, the better as far as I am concerned.

[Miggeex]

Hah provocative Bernie strikes again. This is exactly what he wants and should be done just before the season. It's like free PR whenever he says something. He's not stupid.

[prty]

He is right about helping Ferrari with the double points.

He wants to keep the championship open until the end and Red Bull's main challenger since the last four years has been none other than Ferrari!

 

No he's not. Red Bull has been the strongest team at the end of the past few seasons, so if someone benefits, it's them. And specially this season, where it looks they will not start on the right foot.
 

Edited by prty, 05 February 2014 - 09:31.

[Jon83]

He is stating the obvious.

[kosmos]

If he does this for Ferrari, I wonder what will he do for his favourite team and driver?.

[Wingnut]

Love the way the Reuters article was filed under 'Cyclical Consumer Goods'!

[Clatter]

Fully agree. As someone said it on this forum the other day, ''Bernie likes to appeal to the uneducated''. Can't explain it.

 

F1 is a strong brand today, but it's mostly because of what individual teams have been doing to maintain the high profile of the sport.

It's just sad that Bernie and CVC have been able to and are still able to drain the sport from a lot of its income.

I think you are severely underestimating BE's role in making the brand what it is today.  

[Nonesuch]

It is and always has been imperative to give Ferrari as much of "a hand" as possible.

 

If the powers-that-be wanted to help Ferrari, they could have banned Red Bull over the flexing wings, the exhaust blown diffuser, the illegal holes in their car, etc. etc.

 

There were plenty of inoffensive opportunities to help Ferrari if that is what they wanted to do. They didn't.

 

Given Red Bull's usual late-season form, this would have to be one of the worst schemes ever devised in F1 if it truly was intended to help Ferrari.

[Timstr11]

I think you are severely underestimating BE's role in making the brand what it is today.  

I disagree obviously, but please elaborate so i can see where you're coming from.

[e34]

Bernie (and Max)'s plan was easy to see (at least if you have a conspiracy-prone mind). Back in 2009, they wanted a cheaper F1 that they could pay out of the amount they were giving to the teams. They were paying out $500 million a year, so they wanted a $50 million a year budget cap for each of the 10 teams. That is how they enticed HRT, Virgin and Team Lotus: telling them that teams with bigger budgets would be handicapped, so they would have a fair chance to get decent results. 

 

Of course, the $50 million given as a reference had no bearing with reality; with that budget you just can't compete in F1. Anyway, that amount was not taken out of the blue; it was what Bernie needed to have a F1 he could pay (and he could control as he wanted) with the amount he was already spending as prizes and profit share for the teams. 

 

In any case, Bernie is not that naive. He knew that with those budget caps new teams would not have a chance to compete against established teams, and he needed to equalize the "value" of new teams against incumbent teams. Let us not forget that in 2008-9 Ferrari and McLaren were seriously thinking in leaving F1 for another (new) championship, and Renault was thinking in leaving F1 for good. That would have left Bernie with the brand F1 and with none of the teams with valuable public image. Bernie could not afford that, and he did not. 

 

Since 2009 we have had an underdog who won the championship after the DDD decision and a new big team (with a totally different business plan that does not see the F1 team as an income generating activity, but as an advertising and marketing tool) that has wiped the competition out. All this, with developments that were questionable, to say the least (as questionable as mass dampers and flexi-floors, at least), which were accepted without batting an eyelid. 

 

Now Bernie is (IMO) in a better bargaining position than he was in 2008. The fans have grown accustomed to an almost spec formula; the 4 years in a row incumbent champion is way more interested in F1 as a brand and in F1 as a marketing tool than in F1 as a motorsport and income generating activity; older incumbent teams have seen their prestige diminished... An independent spun-off formula would be way more difficult to create now than five years ago. Bernie has not managed (yet) to get his cheap F1, but if the big teams were to leave F1 and create another championship, a F1 with Red Bull (plus Toro Rosso), Williams and the Renault powered teams would (IMO) eventually prevail against a new championship with Ferrari, McLaren and maybe Mercedes powered teams. 

 

And every now and then, Bernie is (now and not ten or twelve years ago) on record saying how privileged Ferrari is. Of course, he does that because he is either out of his mind or candidly letting it be know how much he loves the red team. The fact that the less power Ferrari as a brand has, the bigger F1 bargaining power is has never crossed Bernie's mind. 

 

Yeah, sure. 

[SCUDmissile]

If the powers-that-be wanted to help Ferrari, they could have banned Red Bull over the flexing wings, the exhaust blown diffuser, the illegal holes in their car, etc. etc.

 

There were plenty of inoffensive opportunities to help Ferrari if that is what they wanted to do. They didn't.

 

Given Red Bull's usual late-season form, this would have to be one of the worst schemes ever devised in F1 if it truly was intended to help Ferrari.

 

How dare you come in here with your logic and your rational thoughts.

Out with you, FIA(T) lolololololololololololololololololol

 

Seriously, I think Bernie isn't fit to run the sport anymore. He should just take his money that he has made milking F1 especially these past few years and go enjoy the rest of his life. What with his crazy ideas about sprinkers and whatnot then his court case. FIA should fine him $100 mil for bringing the sport into disrepute tbh.

[boldhakka]

He used to.

 

And he used to say exactly stuff like this. Ergo ...

[BRG]

I think you are severely underestimating BE's role in making the brand what it is today.  

Yes, Bernie is very much to blame for what F1 is today.  A failing brand.  Vastly too expensive to manufacture, with a falling number of customers and with its suppliers going out of business.

[Clatter]

I disagree obviously, but please elaborate so i can see where you're coming from.

Bernie has being doing his job for almost 40 years. He got into that position and given the power he has because the teams didn't want to do it themselves. IMHO it has been him that has been instrumental in building the brand to what it is today. He is still the one who negotiates with the circuits, governments, heads of power etc. The teams don't even want to spend the money doing large scale launches anymore.

 

Unfortunately, like Mosely who also did a great deal of good in his early days, he has become all too powerful and appears to be doing whats best for his pocket rather than whats best for the sport. 

[Clatter]

Yes, Bernie is very much to blame for what F1 is today.  A failing brand.  Vastly too expensive to manufacture, with a falling number of customers and with its suppliers going out of business.

I agree. He built the brand, but now he is demolishing it.

[e34]

Nowadays big crowds are a headache for Bernie. With the probable exception of the States, where big crowds may mean big money, and where the F1 franchise is underdeveloped, Bernie is way more interested in places like Singapur or Abu Dhabi where the audience is reduced, but extremely wealthy and powerful. 

 

F1 (as we know it) is no longer Bernie's business. His interests are elsewhere, and he uses F1 as an instrument to pursue those interests. In a way, Bernie is a sort of Flavio's mini-me. Or, even better, Flavio is a sort of grotesque maxi-me of Bernie. 

[Atreiu]

You can be both.

[SpaMaster]

Both. Sorry didn't read the OP, just went with the title.

Edited by SpaMaster, 05 February 2014 - 16:07.

[dau]

Yes, Bernie is very much to blame for what F1 is today.  A failing brand.  Vastly too expensive to manufacture, with a falling number of customers and with its suppliers going out of business.

A failing brand? F1 is still growing massively, there was a UBS report a while ago expecting revenues of more than $2bn for 2016. Venues are still ready to pay millions just to get on the F1 calendar and the sport still has a pretty impressive global range. Suppliers going out of business? Well, looks like they are going to be replaced instantly, aren't they? There's no mass exodus from F1 (yet?) and losing some viewers for one or two seasons isn't a trend yet.

Edited by dau, 05 February 2014 - 16:12.

[BRG]

A failing brand? F1 is still growing massively, there was a UBS report a while ago expecting revenues of more than $2bn for 2016. Venues are still ready to pay millions just to get on the F1 calendar and the sport still has a pretty impressive global range. Suppliers going out of business? Well, looks like they are going to be replaced instantly, aren't they? There's no mass exodus from F1 (yet?) and losing some viewers for one or two seasons isn't a trend yet.

BS.  It isn't growing massively, it's shrinking.  Korea & Valencia have gone, India is going, New Jersey never arrived and I still have my doubts about Sochi.  There are no more in the queue.  Existing venues are looking to renegotiate.  Several teams are on the edge of collapse.  The only new bidders to join are complete jokes with about as much credibility as Quantum.  Many races aren't sell-outs the way that they all were once.  Viewers are evaporating and the ones that are left are booing the winner.  The ringmaster is on trial in the UK and Germany and is likely to be banged up.  The rights owner is looking to offload it.

 

Things couldn't be rosier, could they?

[uffen]

With all the fiddling F1 is doing to attract, or keep, all these casual fans I wonder what ever attracted these types of fans in the first place.

[BullHead]

He did a fine job, but he definately went senile a year or two ago. I used to admire him big time. I thought deep down he was still a fan and a garagiste. Now I wish he would sod off to jail and let someone run F1 with a bit of integrity.

[dau]

BS.  It isn't growing massively, it's shrinking.  Korea & Valencia have gone, India is going, New Jersey never arrived and I still have my doubts about Sochi.  There are no more in the queue.  Existing venues are looking to renegotiate.  Several teams are on the edge of collapse.  The only new bidders to join are complete jokes with about as much credibility as Quantum.  Many races aren't sell-outs the way that they all were once.  Viewers are evaporating and the ones that are left are booing the winner.  The ringmaster is on trial in the UK and Germany and is likely to be banged up.  The rights owner is looking to offload it.

 

Things couldn't be rosier, could they?

Korea and Valencia have gone and Russia and Austria have joined. Even if Sochi is canceled, we are still at 18 races, more than the 00s had on average.  Venues looking to renegotiate isn't anything new either - i can't wait for Ron Walker's traditional AusGP tango before the start of the season. Honda joins and is reportedly throwing truckloads of money at McLaren, but you rather talk about Quantum. 

 

Ah well, i think i'll wait for the revenue figures of 2013 and 2014. 

[Watkins74]

Bernie does this every year. He says something crazy and then adds "BTW - remember our season starts soon in Australia".

[demet06]

Bernie should have "retired" 10 years ago. I believe F1 has been going downhill for at least that amount of time, with silly rule changes and visiting some dodgy places. I think the new engine regs had to come sooner or later as F1 has to be perceived to be going greener.

The last race double points is just the latest of the silly rule changes. The funny thing is that Seb called it "Absurd" but it might just benefit him as Adrian will have completed his re-design and Renault might have the engine running.

[AlexS]

 

He is right about helping Ferrari with the double points.

Really?

 

 

Last year Ferrari was fast and in contention in first half of championship.

 

Tell me how double points at championship end help Ferrari?

 

Now in a year where no ones knows the power units relative performance.

 

 

He is just attacking them because Ferrari didn't blocked the new Power Units that Bernie doesn't want at all.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...sual.html?_r=1

Edited by AlexS, 05 February 2014 - 19:30.

[stanga]

Korea and Valencia have gone and Russia and Austria have joined. Even if Sochi is canceled, we are still at 18 races, more than the 00s had on average.  Venues looking to renegotiate isn't anything new either - i can't wait for Ron Walker's traditional AusGP tango before the start of the season. Honda joins and is reportedly throwing truckloads of money at McLaren, but you rather talk about Quantum. 

 

Ah well, i think i'll wait for the revenue figures of 2013 and 2014. 

 

Revenue is not exactly a great measure of success in any sphere of business. Financially F1 is in a mess, and it seems to me from the venues to the teams there isn't much profit to be had by those at the coal face. And if you do cling to revenue as an indicator of global sports success:

 

NFL $25 billion

English Premier League $5 billion

 

Neither competition has to perform in heavily weighted shows in the Middle East either. 

[johnmhinds]

Bernie does this every year. He says something crazy and then adds "BTW - remember our season starts soon in Australia".

 

And people fall for it every year.

 

FOM/CVC the teams and the FIA have a lot to answer for with their mishandling of the sport and their inability to write solid rules to curtail spending, but I wouldn't put much blame for any of the teams or tracks financial trouble directly on Bernie's shoulders. His main job is to get the best deals he can for FOM, yet he gets labelled as evil for being good at what he is paid to do. If the teams, tv companies and circuits are super shitty at negotiating contracts with him then that's their problem not his.