50 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

I've just watched Sam stroll away with the Monaco GP.2 feature race.

 

It led me to wonder, what is he doing in 2014?

[Andrew Hope]

I've just watched Sam stroll away with the Monaco GP.2 feature race.

 

It led me to wonder, what is he doing in 2014?

 

He raced in the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona a couple weeks back. Rumors of an IndyCar ride haven't materialized yet.

[Bloggsworth]

He's British, so no money, no drive...

[Gregor Marshall]

He is racing in America this year Barry.

[HaydenFan]

Running the endurance rounds of the USCC. Other than that, seems to have no plans. 

[Barry Boor]

Oh dear. That really is a pity.

 

I thought one of the F.1 teams would take him on as reserve/test driver.

[sabjit]

Another talent shunted aside in favor of pay drivers. 

[Barry Boor]

So it seems.

[Andrew Hope]

Yeah, racing is expensive.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Exactly, and somehow Bird managed to pay for the years of Renaults, F3, and GP2 with top teams. So he's hardly the descendant of Bob Cratchit.

 

He was Merc tester/reserve/whatever but maybe he's been replaced now. 

 

Hard to feel a ton of sympathy for him. He had a good career but wasn't an outstanding omg-sign-this-man talent. 

[Barry Boor]

Ah yes, unlike Kvyat/Chilton/Ricciardo/Buemi/Petrov/Algesuari. (Delete to taste!)  

[charly0418]

Ah yes, unlike Kvyat/Chilton/Ricciardo/Buemi/Petrov/Algesuari. (Delete to taste!)  

 

4 of those are part of the Red Bull program. They made it not because they had rich sponsors from day 1, they survived the thoughest Yound Driver program in motorsport

Edited by charly0418, 08 February 2014 - 22:33.

[sopa]

Exactly, and somehow Bird managed to pay for the years of Renaults, F3, and GP2 with top teams. So he's hardly the descendant of Bob Cratchit.

 

He was Merc tester/reserve/whatever but maybe he's been replaced now. 

 

Hard to feel a ton of sympathy for him. He had a good career but wasn't an outstanding omg-sign-this-man talent. 

 

Guess I agree with it. Sam Bird seems a slightly less exciting version of Jules Bianchi. Mind you, they were together in GP2 in 2010 in both drivers' rookie seasons and also in World Series by Renault in 2012. So in my book means while Bird wouldn't be an embarrassment and would do kind of 'okayish' job, he wouldn't be a future champion. Just someone, who trundles around somewhere there before soon inevitably dropping out of F1 again. A bit like his countryman Anthony Davidson.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Ah yes, unlike Kvyat/Chilton/Ricciardo/Buemi/Petrov/Algesuari. (Delete to taste!)  

 

Guys like Kvyat and Ricciardo are pretty damn good. No idea why you threw Chilton in there.

[noikeee]

Ah yes, unlike Kvyat/Chilton/Ricciardo/Buemi/Petrov/Algesuari. (Delete to taste!)  

 

I'd take any of the Red Bull guys on that list over Bird. Except maybe Buemi.

 

Good driver who could potentially make a decent midfielder in F1 but no massive talent lost.

[Barry Boor]

Okay. I accept the majority opinion.

 

I just felt that Sam was worthy of a drive.  It seems I'm wrong.  

[ensign14]

There are better British drivers who missed out entirely.  The biggest crime was Jamie Green.  Won the F3 Euroseries in his first full season - beating Rosberg, Hamilton and Kubica (as well as Sutil and van der Garde).  And his punishment for beating Bernie's select was to be stuck in taxis ever since. 

 

For a long time there was an astonishing correlation.  Between 1988 and 2002 every British F3 champ from outside the British Isles made it to F1 or Indycar - yet not a single champ from within the British Isles did so.

[dau]

Ah yes, unlike Kvyat/Chilton/Ricciardo/Buemi/Petrov/Algesuari. (Delete to taste!)  

Well, Kvyat spent as much time in single seaters generally as Bird did in GP2 and WSbR alone. He had more podiums in his two thirds of an F3 Euro season than Bird managed in 2 years. So, yea, unlike Kvyat for example.

 

I'm not saying Bird's bad or anything, he obviously is pretty talented and could still have a good career. But without a truckload of money, F1 was always a bit of a stretch for him.

Edited by dau, 08 February 2014 - 23:19.

[Ross Stonefeld]

There are better British drivers who missed out entirely.  The biggest crime was Jamie Green.  Won the F3 Euroseries in his first full season - beating Rosberg, Hamilton and Kubica (as well as Sutil and van der Garde).  And his punishment for beating Bernie's select was to be stuck in taxis ever since. 

 

For a long time there was an astonishing correlation.  Between 1988 and 2002 every British F3 champ from outside the British Isles made it to F1 or Indycar - yet not a single champ from within the British Isles did so.

 

Apparently Green was offered an ART(or maybe Arden) GP2 drive for 2005 for a really really good price. But either didn't choose to or couldn't afford to. It's not like people he beat in F3 went straight to F1, most of them promoted on to GP2 and then up.

 

Out of the 15 Brit F3 champs in your bracket, only 5 were British. So the stats are kind of low to begin with. I know a lot of people see it as a scandal that British drivers aren't supported. I'd argue that Britain just isn't that into motorsport. 

 

There are also economic/cultural issues that play into it. The disappearance of the Marlboro Junior Team had an impact on everyone's career. The increasing costs of F1, etc. The 90s and definitely the 00s weren't a great time for any nationality to promote into F1.

[HaydenFan]

Out of the 15 Brit F3 champs in your bracket, only 5 were British. So the stats are kind of low to begin with. I know a lot of people see it as a scandal that British drivers aren't supported. I'd argue that Britain just isn't that into motorsport. 

 

 

 

Very true. The argument always goes, "Well Britain is were all the teams are located, so that means British support." Not entirely true. Why don't we see an American in F1? It isn't for a lack of trying. The money that'd support the driver just doesn't see the point. Throw a billboard on an baseball or football stadium and for a tenth the cost, but ten times the impact as F1 or an racing for that matter. 

[Doughnut King]

Exactly, and somehow Bird managed to pay for the years of Renaults, F3, and GP2 with top teams. So he's hardly the descendant of Bob Cratchit.

 

I think he was paid during his GP2 drive last year.

[Ross Stonefeld]

He got a free drive last year, don't know if he got salary. But someone was paying for the nine previous seasons in Formula cars. And that isn't cheap. 

[ClubmanGT]

It's even worse for New Zealand drivers, unless you have an impassioned backer like Colin Giltrap then you're going nowhere.

 

It's a real shame because we have produced some very good drivers locally and we'll keep doing so, but the huge price of racing means and our small size means we'll never see them put together a competitive package outside of V8 Supercars.  

[noikeee]

Every nation complains about this. If I was a racing driver I know I'd much much rather be British than most of the nationalities around. It's one of the best nations in the world in terms of availability of racing - the sheer number of circuits, facilities, series, teams in all sorts of various championships not just F1. That also means the talent pool is bigger and therefore drivers steal sponsors from each other, you'll also never be able to race funded by "Visit Britain" stickers, but at least it's a nation that at least has some sort of functional economy compared to most in Europe at the moment. I don't buy that "the Brits aren't much into motorsport" - seriously, compared to where? Where on earth is Formula 1 as popular as there? It draws huge TV viewing figures. Italy maybe, Germany, a few Latin American nations at a push, and...? Spain since Alonso? It's got to be easily one of the nations on earth where a larger share of the population watches motorsports.

 

You also have the core of specialist press willing to hype you up. Autosport awards? Racing Steps Foundation paying a share of your racing up to GP2? No need to learn a second language, English is THE racing language. No need to move out of England at a young age, you can do Brit formulas until you reach F3 level or something; and you can even remain in Britain as your home base the time you're in F1. All the most advanced simulator facilities are near you, to help you in an age testing is restricted. Don't make it to F1? There's quite a few British GT teams that can hire you. Or that national professional touring car championship (how many nations have this?). You'll have picked up a huge number of connections along the way, if you're tied on money with a Swedish or Polish driver or whatever, they'll take you as a fellow Brit.

 

You're broke? Well you'd never have made it anyway whichever the nationality. If you're not filthy rich chances to make it to F1 are minimal. Still, once in a while a very rare guy gets into F1 who started out as a middle-class kid whose dad found it funny to put him in karts. Then after an astronomically tough series of plain dumb luck events, he gets there. I'd be willing to bet as a middle class guy your astronomically low chances of getting into F1 are much higher if you're a Brit. Because if you're a Brit you're in one of the very very few nations on earth where a middle class dad can even think of realistically putting his kid in karts (for example, it'd be a laughably unrealistic thing to do here in Portugal the way the economy is right now, and the state of the non-existent facilities); and where things can get kickstarted more easily through connections.

Edited by noikeee, 09 February 2014 - 01:56.

[DanardiF1]

Apparently Green was offered an ART(or maybe Arden) GP2 drive for 2005 for a really really good price. But either didn't choose to or couldn't afford to. It's not like people he beat in F3 went straight to F1, most of them promoted on to GP2 and then up.

 

Out of the 15 Brit F3 champs in your bracket, only 5 were British. So the stats are kind of low to begin with. I know a lot of people see it as a scandal that British drivers aren't supported. I'd argue that Britain just isn't that into motorsport.

 

There are also economic/cultural issues that play into it. The disappearance of the Marlboro Junior Team had an impact on everyone's career. The increasing costs of F1, etc. The 90s and definitely the 00s weren't a great time for any nationality to promote into F1.

 

To some extent I'd agree with you, given that large swathes of the admittedly massive British GP crowd tend to be casual fans that treat it like some kind of music festival (ie. something to tick off 'the list' rather than going for the race itself) and the mainstream media's coverage of motorsport is frankly null outside the travails of Messyrs Hamilton and Button... BUT the number of times I've been to Brands Hatch over the last 18 months to find big crowds at the circuit for BTCC, British GT and DTM races has frankly surprised me. Likewise for the number of people that turned up for the 6 Hours at Silverstone last year... it was nothing on the Grand Prix crowd, but it was sizeable for such a niche event.

 

I don't think that business in the UK is that into motorsport, but honestly I don't see why most of the big companies in the UK would see F1 as a relevant marketing exercise... Vodafone got great exposure from their McLaren deal, and out of the other FTSE 100 companies I could only really spot the likes of Diageo, Shell, GSK, RBS and Sky who have had anything to do with F1 in the last 5 or so years. Justin King is presumably putting his son through his racing career from his Sainsbury's earnings, and Graham Chilton has spent millions on both Tom and Max through the success of his own business and it's buyout, but elsewhere it just doesn't happen. I think it's because in this country spending money like that is picked out by the media as something to bash big business with.

[ensign14]

Out of the 15 Brit F3 champs in your bracket, only 5 were British. So the stats are kind of low to begin with. I know a lot of people see it as a scandal that British drivers aren't supported. I'd argue that Britain just isn't that into motorsport. 

 

There are also economic/cultural issues that play into it. The disappearance of the Marlboro Junior Team had an impact on everyone's career. The increasing costs of F1, etc. The 90s and definitely the 00s weren't a great time for any nationality to promote into F1.

 

I'd think Britain is rather more into motor sport than many other countries.  But one can look surely to motor-mad Italy, which provided dozens of F1 drivers in the 1970s to the 1990s, most of whom were not particularly good - no world champs since 1953 and scarce few winners - and now they've got nobody.  Or France which has had a dearth in recent years, and Germany never had many in proportion to its size and interest (pre-Schumacher, Thierry Boutsen was as successful as Germany in WCGP terms).  But the F3 statistic is significant - there is a direct correlation.

 

I think it reflects more the nature of sponsorship in the past - in which many sponsors were, not to put too fine a point on it, bent.  So drivers from countries whose records on business integrity were somewhat short of the standards applicable elsewhere flooded into the sport.  Which of course had a knock-on effect; no point in picking Andy Wallace whose budget was measured solely in talent if someone who once scored a sixth in F3000 could come up with a quarter mil.  To some extent that dried up as budgets went stratospheric, but now it's come back with a vengeance, as shifting money around has gone ever more global...

[Jackman]

You say that as though there's never been a bent Brit in motorsport.

[LuckyStrike1]

There are better British drivers who missed out entirely.  The biggest crime was Jamie Green.  Won the F3 Euroseries in his first full season - beating Rosberg, Hamilton and Kubica (as well as Sutil and van der Garde).  And his punishment for beating Bernie's select was to be stuck in taxis ever since. 

 

For a long time there was an astonishing correlation.  Between 1988 and 2002 every British F3 champ from outside the British Isles made it to F1 or Indycar - yet not a single champ from within the British Isles did so.

 

 

Punished by a well paid long term manufacturer contract. Yeah that was just terrible, something you don't wish on your worst enemy. 

[olliek88]

Sam's a good driver but he's never been the best of his peers throughout his junior career. Le Mans/Endurance racing is a logical step for him, hell, its a much better option than playing a teams computer game during the week and sitting on a pitwall at the weekend. 

[ensign14]

You say that as though there's never been a bent Brit in motorsport.

 

Of course there have been.  And how many of them funded people in F1 in the last, say, 30 years?

[Peat]

I gather he might be heading East to do some Super Formula (formula nippon)

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd think Britain is rather more into motor sport than many other countries.  But one can look surely to motor-mad Italy, which provided dozens of F1 drivers in the 1970s to the 1990s, most of whom were not particularly good - no world champs since 1953 and scarce few winners - and now they've got nobody.  Or France which has had a dearth in recent years, and Germany never had many in proportion to its size and interest (pre-Schumacher, Thierry Boutsen was as successful as Germany in WCGP terms).  But the F3 statistic is significant - there is a direct correlation.

 

 

I don't know that there is. There's a lot of factors that go into it. You chose to focus on Brit champions that didn't make it to F1. It's not like there was heavy advancement. The guys that tended to make it had funding. Ie the year Kevlin Burt won it was low rankers like de la Rosa and Rossett. Or in a better year da Matta. Who hardly took a direct route up.

 

Yeah there were a lot of bent sponsorships but you also pick a poor period to prove your point. If you extend from 2002 until now, the promotion rate to F1 isn't much better. If you aren't Red Bull entering the series, you don't really go anywhere. So where's the sympathy for Haberfeld, Parente, or Asmer?

 

If you look at German F3 from 1998-2002, the rate of non-promotion is about the same. 

[ensign14]

I stopped in 2002 because since then British F3 hasn't been the route of choice into F1 that it was before.  FRenault and Euro F3 have basically nudged it into a near irrelevance.  And Asmer of course did the Sospiri Route - stay in a formula long enough and you will eventually win it by sheer erosion.

 

German F3 was never really a mega step towards F1.  Brazilians tended to come to Britain rather than Germany.  If you look at the 1997 German F3 season, for example, of the 30 drivers taking part, only 4 came from countries that were not Germany or a country bordering - and only 1 was not European.  The British F3 talent pool was global.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The irony is this is one of the best times to be a British driver. There is a UK only scholarship in Racing Steps(why has Bird always been overlooked by that program?) along with Red Bull Junior no longer being geared towards Germans/Austrians(and briefly Americans).

[chrisblades85]

The fact Calado doesn't seem to have a drive in anything this season is more of a shame. But it's ok as a Chilton and Ericsson fully deserve F1 drives.

[rhukkas]

The irony is this is one of the best times to be a British driver. There is a UK only scholarship in Racing Steps(why has Bird always been overlooked by that program?) along with Red Bull Junior no longer being geared towards Germans/Austrians(and briefly Americans).

 

I wouldn't say that. If you look at karting you'll see it's the Russians who will be soon dominating. The way the sport is now shaped means money is more important than ever. The fact is if RSF didn't exist then there would be no British hopefuls.

[Joe Bosworth]

It's even worse for New Zealand drivers, unless you have an impassioned backer like Colin Giltrap then you're going nowhere.

 

It's a real shame because we have produced some very good drivers locally and we'll keep doing so, but the huge price of racing means and our small size means we'll never see them put together a competitive package outside of V8 Supercars.  

 

Clubbie,

 

Open your eyes mate,Thupercars is a dead end in the road to an international career. It is more like the the place that guys retreat back to as when they can't find anything on the outside.  One international escapee is all I can think of.

 

Regards

[Brandz07]

The fact Calado doesn't seem to have a drive in anything this season is more of a shame. But it's ok as a Chilton and Ericsson fully deserve F1 drives.

 

He looked even more promising than Sam IMO.

Edited by Brandz07, 10 February 2014 - 12:04.

[Mohican]

Let's get a grip here. Bird was not picked up by "UK Motorsport plc" as he is a crybaby who never admitted to doing anything wrong, such as for instance ruining his iSport teammate Ericsson's qualifying lap in Monaco in the best Schumacher tradition. Or to pissing people off big-time about his Mercedes connections at every opportunity. Or for choking in Bahrain last year. Let's admit it, not that impressive.

 

I find it much more strange that Calado has nowhere to go, having been taken on by Force india as third driver during the autumn '13 (and who paid for that, then ?).

[HaydenFan]

The fact Calado doesn't seem to have a drive in anything this season is more of a shame. But it's ok as a Chilton and Ericsson fully deserve F1 drives.

 

I don't think anyone is saying these drivers deserve their seats. Just that their check has cleared. Maybe the issue with the British driver trying to reach F1 is that there is too many British drivers. While I agree with Ross that at least from a financial support, Britain doesn't have much interest in motorsport, maybe the issue is the money that is interested is spread too thin. How do you spark interest? Look at the Racing Steps Foundation. Where is that money coming from? Sounds like a good program, but makes me think that the program is a half a** approach. Those invested in the fund could individually more than likely invest a lot more in motorsport. 

 

I think that is where Calado hurt. Like the Red Bull backed drivers of the early-mid 2000's, once the funding went away they disappeared. And sadly, like the Red Bull drivers, many didn't spend time looking for backers, so when the only backing they had opted out, they had nothing to do but ride the pine and hope for the best. 

 

Clubbie,

 

Open your eyes mate,Thupercars is a dead end in the road to an international career. It is more like the the place that guys retreat back to as when they can't find anything on the outside.  One international escapee is all I can think of.

 

Regards

 

I think he is referring to how the only option for most young drivers in Australia/New Zealand is V8SC. Many drivers want to move up, go to Europe, but the funds just do not exist for those kids to leave the islands for Europe. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Back on topic though.

 

Sam Bird's biggest fault was being like Valescchi or Leimer. Fast, but just not that impressive. Was consistently there at the front, but being consistently at the front isn't going to wow F1 teams. 

[Wander]

Speaking of Leimer, what is he doing in 2014 as the newly crowned GP2 champion?

[purplehaireddolphin]

Calado

Bird

Palmer

 

In that order, I think they all deserve a seat in F1 even if it's just as reserve. 

[rhukkas]

Are you a son of an ex-F1 driver? No

Are you the son of a millionaire? No

 

Well then F1 isn't for you

[Ross Stonefeld]

Or even racing, most of the time.

[Wander]

The millionaire or son of a former F1 driver only brings about 5 hits out of 22 when looking at the current F1 paddock, though.

 

The truth lies somewhere in between. If the family has no money, it takes  a lot of commitment and talent. The more wealth the family has, the easier it is to generate chances. But although the families of most current F1 drivers appear to have been fairly well off, only few were millionaires.

Edited by Wander, 10 February 2014 - 16:33.

[LuckyStrike1]

Are you a son of an ex-F1 driver? No

Are you the son of a millionaire? No

 

Well then F1 isn't for you

 

Then again I think you can name quite a few current F1-drivers who are neither ;) 

[Andrew Hope]

You'd almost think this was a British forum.

[Risil]

Or even racing, most of the time.

 

What's the young driver/rich dad situation like in NASCAR these days?

Edited by Risil, 10 February 2014 - 19:48.

[Andrew Hope]

We relevant .gif now!

 

[sopa]

I agree with noikeee. Generally being a British is an advantage. Tell a random Slovak or a Greek that you have as good chances of making to F1 as Brits. No way. They have almost nothing there, if you want to do anything above karting you certainly need to get out of your homeland and need to find significant sponsorship support to do it.

 

However, the people, who have an advantage over Brits, are... the rich people. Regardless of where they come from. The people, who have multimillion-dollar businesses behind them with good connections. If you have that, you can come even from Philippines and make it into F1 as a paydriver.

 

However, when we are talking about ON AVERAGE, rather be Brit or German than others. If we don't count "average" and try to extend the scope of opportunities iover the whole world, you better pray you just get born into the right family.