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A note of optimism


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#1 Victor

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 20:47

This year we will see quite a few changes in F1. Going through the forum I find a huge amount of complains about it. The cars are ugly, the engines sound terrible, double points for the last race(s?) are stupid and unnecessary, Tilkeodromes are crap, etc. etc..

As much as I agree will all the above, I would like to leave here a note of optimism:

 

In 2014 F1 will shake a lot. This happened before in F1, quite a few times with very good results. New rules will represent an opportunity to see other cars at the front. With a bit of luck it may even mean the end of the boring Red Bull’s dominance.

 

New and more complex engines will most likely bring a bit of unpredictability to the races. I expect the cars to be less reliable, which may bring some surprises here and there.

 

The cars have funny noses? Just Google Ensign N179, March 711 or Ferrari 312 T4. Those were the days.

 

We still have quite a few proper circuits (Spa, Monza, Silverstone, Montreal, etc.) and even one good Tilkeodrome (Austin).

 

As for the drivers, we may have the opportunity to find out if Vettel is as good as his recent results seem to indicate or if his titles were simply the result of driving the best car against an average team mate.

The best Japanese driver I have seen racing will be back on the grid. Pérez has managed to survive the unfair treatment he received from McLaren. True, there are pay drivers, but there is also genuine talent being promoted to F1.

 

All things considered, I have to say I am optimistic and expect a decent year, if not a vintage. Let’s hope I am not wrong.



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#2 Beamer

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 20:56

+1


Edited by Beamer, 08 February 2014 - 20:56.


#3 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 21:19

Any proper F1 fan will be able to find points of interest.

Season could go any million numbers of ways, though. Could be an entirely boring year for all we know. I suppose many people would be happy just to have somebody other than Vettel/Red Bull win, but I'm hoping for an actual competitive season. I think anything less than that will still ultimately be a disappointment after dealing with domination for this long. Unless its a Ferrari. Then it will be an awesome year and people that complain are just being cry-babies.

#4 sabjit

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 21:45

Good post. Whilst I share some frustration at one or two of the new rules I do wish people realize how irritating it is to read about the predicted death of F1 everywhere.



#5 spacekid

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 22:48

I agree with the sentiment of the OP. The effect of the new power train will be interesting.

However, I am incredibly disappointed that this new formula won't even be given a chance without DRS to produce racing. For me DRS has created anti-racing, especially last season. I feel about as much excitement watching one car DRS past another one as a sloth must feel mid nap. And as that seems to be how most of the action plays out, it's a deal breaker for me.

Shame, as more torque and harder to drive, slower cornering cars could have produced good racing. They won't even be given a chance...

Edited by spacekid, 08 February 2014 - 22:49.


#6 Jovanotti

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 22:57

Alonso vs. Räikkönen, enough said

#7 DrF

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 22:58

Red Bull and Vettel are the most likely to benefit from the new rules.

But at least we have had a few weeks of hope before Renault get their problems sorted out..

#8 sopa

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 23:08

A note of optimism from me tells the following things:

 

- we could have a close(ish) fight for the title again. It doesn't look like Vettel/RBR are strong enough to run away with it this time. And even if Mercedes or Ferrari have the edge, their drivers are close enough to each other to keep the title open for quite a long time.

 

- the superior Mercedes engines could give an opportunity to midfield teams like Force India or Williams to punch above their weight. Now the expectations have to be realistic here and not get carried away. They are not going for the titles, but conceivably they could get some pretty good points at the very least.

 

- unreliability rates could be a bit bigger than in the past, which once again could enable a few underdog teams to score some good results. Realistically the unreliability rates are not going to be as bad as in the 80s, but it's still something to look forward to, at least in the beginning of the season! Maybe by the end of the year we again get approx the usual 20 finishers out of 22...



#9 MFMkII

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:31

A lot of people seem to be missing this - they keep saying "superior Mercedes engine" but I'm not really sure where this comes from. 

Mercedes appear, at the moment, after 1 test, to have the most reliable engine. However, and this is a strong point, the Ferrari could easily turn out to be much more powerful, or superior. 

Second to that, the Renault reliability issues (after all, that's all it is) could be a straightforward fix, and come Bahrain they could be matching Mercedes, AND be much more powerful, too. 

We just don't know, and we all need to stop speculating on this! It's just testing, no team is running away with it yet, and Bahrain should reveal more. My bet is that Red Bull will be running with the best of them there, their initial problems merely teething. You don't have that much money and develop an engine for that long, for it to be this unreliable. Likely just too marginal packaging and a small mechanical issue. We will see. 

Remember, we have no information as of yet for performance, merely opinion from commentators. Don't make yourselves a fool. 


Edited by MFMkII, 09 February 2014 - 01:32.


#10 HeadFirst

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:25

Could F1 be improved? Of course it can, but having said that there are more than enough reasons for me to watch. Even during Vettel's dominating close-out to 2013 there were worthy battles among the other competitors, and this year has added drama. There are so many questions to be answered with the new spec (and new driver pairings), that 2014 might prove to be the most interesting in recent years.



#11 Murl

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:29

and Honda is coming back.

 

Thanks OP, about time we talked it up.



#12 AlexS

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:35

The only reason i follow F1 this year is the technological side. Other than that after the DRS, the coming of the double points  i will just consider who whatever wins due to last race points a false Champion.



#13 Nonesuch

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:00

I'm sure there are a lot of reasons to enjoy F1 - after all, it's what most of this forum revolves around. :up: I don't see the points raised in this thread as being particularly positive - unreliability, even more restrictive regulations (even if they're different from before), the lacklustre American circuit, or the prospect of seeing Sergio Pérez in action again. But that's fine, we don't all have to enjoy the same things. The great thing about today is that we can see a ton of footage from pretty much every racing series in the world. We can let F1 be F1 - whatever the powers-that-be decide that is - and turn to other series to satisfy desires that F1 cannot meet, whether that is certain tracks, exciting new technology, great drivers, or daunting race lengths.

 

Seeing as how the insider reporters are working over hours to assure readers that everything is fine, I remain a little sceptical, but I'll just wait and see how things turn out. :up:


Edited by Nonesuch, 09 February 2014 - 10:04.


#14 wonk123

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:03

I am looking forward to this year more than any other in memory, I am excited by the pre-season, by the promise of unpredictability, by the new technology, and by having no idea what will be the best strategy.

 

The only negative for me is not being able to go to Melbourne this year and see the new cars live. But I can assure you I wil be glued to the tv holding my laptop with live timing and loving every minute! :clap:



#15 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:17

Any proper F1 fan will be able to find points of interest.
[...] I think anything less than that will still ultimately be a disappointment after dealing with domination for this long. Unless its a Ferrari. Then it will be an awesome year and people that complain are just being cry-babies.

 

I wonder why people don't get that. One team's domination is not necessarily bad. One team's domination can even be (very) exciting. --> 1988. 1989. With all the ongoing competition on and off track. All the inner-team drama where no team principal in the world can cope with (even Ron-The-Don had his difficulties). The one thing you can do is to sit there and hope that everything will be fine.

 

And that would be the case, if, in 2014, Ferrari was the dominating team or Mercedes, as I think that there are two very very strong drivers, as well.

 

One team's domination is bad when there are driver situations like 1992 - 1993 at Williams or 2001 - 2004 at Ferrari or 2010 - 2013 at RedBull. Imagine 1992 with Mansell/Senna or 1993 with Senna/Prost or 2001 - 2004 with MSC/MOY or MSC/HÄK or 2010 - 2013 with ALO/VET or HAM/VET. It could've been witnessed also exciting seasons although one team was dominating.



#16 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:35



I am looking forward to this year more than any other in memory, I am excited by the pre-season, by the promise of unpredictability, by the new technology, and by having no idea what will be the best strategy.

 

I know what you mean and I don't want to be the "spoilsport" (correct expression?). But there were sooo many pre-seasons where one had built his hopes so high where one thought, "yeah, this season could be REALLY IT"... but then: disillusion of the toughest kind!

 

At which race were let's say the three best teams really matching each other? E.g. Nürburgring 2011?

 

I want (at least almost) an entire season with 19 or 20 "Nürburgrings 2011" where all of the top-three teams are equally strong at each GP-weekend!



#17 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:33

Red Bull and Vettel are the most likely to benefit from the new rules.

But at least we have had a few weeks of hope before Renault get their problems sorted out..

How so? They were already miles on top in recent years, so how can they benefit from anything?



#18 HoldenRT

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:56

It's funny because I feel like complaining.. (about the whole direction F1 has taken in the last 5 years) but not about the things listed in the OP.  Double points, engine sounds,  the looks of the cars, Tilkedromes.. none of that bothers me.  It's more the purity of the racing that interests me.. and whether they are actually racing.. or driving around in formation, being given 'orders' by the team.. having every little thing micro managed, the cars corner speed in each turn, the laptimes they run, and whether they actually attack the track.. or are just driving a 2 hour race as if it's a 24 hour race.  Racing in it's purest form, whether it's cars, horses, humans or anything else.. is simple in that it has a start line and a finish line.. and it's a race to see who can get there the quickest.  F1 goes way beyond that.. and sometimes it makes F1 better or unique and sometimes it makes it sterile and contrived.  There will always be a business side, a commercial side and a political side.. but you always hope that the sporting aspect of the racing itself that comes first.  That these drivers are the best in the world and that they are tested by the equipment and test each other..

 

When this is in place, who cares about the engine sound or the double points?  If it were this way in it's purest form (like a karting race) I could live with double points on random weekends pulled out of a hat, because while that may be a farce.. the results themselves (separate from the points) would be good to watch and pure.  Banning TC was one of the rare changes in the last 10 years that went into a better direction.. but most seem to go in the opposite.. like the new energy control systems for example, that the drivers can't even control.  In a road car that's good, but in a top line racing series, what's the point of having it?

 

F1 in 2014 will be fresh and different.. it's been shaken up.  It's only when things settle down after a season or two with this new formula.. that I fear it will be the most sterile and worse than ever before.  Even worse than 2012 or 2013.  The first 3-6 months will be good, beyond that.. it'll start to settle down unless they keep finding new ways to keep the teams off balance, and keep banning or changing things. 


Edited by HoldenRT, 09 February 2014 - 11:58.


#19 Bloggsworth

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:58

If the racing is good, all the other stuff will be forgotten...



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#20 RedBaron

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:34

Nothing stops me from enjoying each season. Ugly cars is just a talking point while there are no cars on track. Once the cars hit Melbourne I couldn't care less, it's racing time!



#21 ollebompa

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:36

If it were not for double points and DRS i would be as exicted as ever.



#22 sennafan24

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 13:23

If it were not for double points and DRS i would be as exicted as ever.

Yeah, the double points rule is the only thing that really annoys me.

 

I look forward to Kimi vs Alonso, and Lewis vs Rosberg 2. Even Vettel vs D.R interests me, at least it is not Seb vs Webber or Alonso vs Massa all over again. I also have a bit of blind hope the Championship could be close this year, or at least closer than it was in 2013.

 

The element of the unknown due to the new regulations is also exciting. I am looking forward to F1 2014 :up:



#23 BillBald

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 13:32

If it were not for double points and DRS i would be as exicted as ever.

 

Double points is annoying, but I think that DRS could possibly be on the way out.

 

There's a good chance it will make overtaking too easy this year, even for purpose of TV viewing figures, and it may also allow cars which are not limited by gearing to reach speeds which some will consider unsafe.



#24 jjcale

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 14:05

I wonder why people don't get that. One team's domination is not necessarily bad. One team's domination can even be (very) exciting. --> 1988. 1989. With all the ongoing competition on and off track. All the inner-team drama where no team principal in the world can cope with (even Ron-The-Don had his difficulties). The one thing you can do is to sit there and hope that everything will be fine.

 

And that would be the case, if, in 2014, Ferrari was the dominating team or Mercedes, as I think that there are two very very strong drivers, as well.

 

One team's domination is bad when there are driver situations like 1992 - 1993 at Williams or 2001 - 2004 at Ferrari or 2010 - 2013 at RedBull. Imagine 1992 with Mansell/Senna or 1993 with Senna/Prost or 2001 - 2004 with MSC/MOY or MSC/HÄK or 2010 - 2013 with ALO/VET or HAM/VET. It could've been witnessed also exciting seasons although one team was dominating.

 

So really the only rule change needed is one that allows the FIA to force the winning team to change its second driver to someone more competitive....... :lol:



#25 sennafan24

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 14:16

So really the only rule change needed is one that allows the FIA to force the winning team to change its second driver to someone more competitive....... :lol:

I was going to suggest this actually

 

A rule in which if a driver wins a WDC with the same team 2 years running, then the driver who came second in the standings in the 2nd year (or 3rd if the WDC's teammate came 2nd in the standings) has a outright offer to partner the WDC in the following year.

 

It would be problematic though, as the legal wranglings and other things would be bedlam.

 

I am looking forward to Seb vs D.R though, so I cannot moan too much.



#26 JHSingo

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 14:30

If it were not for double points and DRS i would be as exicted as ever.

 

DRS is hardly a new thing though, is it?



#27 ollebompa

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 14:44

DRS is hardly a new thing though, is it?

I know but it still bugs me.



#28 fabr68

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 14:45

I say it was about time to shuffle things around. The last five seasons have pretty much being the same rules, giving advantage the same team who are the strongest about the paricular set of rules.

Change is good.

#29 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 18:01

So really the only rule change needed is one that allows the FIA to force the winning team to change its second driver to someone more competitive....... :lol:

Or, it is needed to encourage more TPs like Ron-The-Don. It was him who made/makes it possible to witness exciting inner-team battles... 1984, 1988, 1989, 2007... (hopefully to be continued). So isn't he the present recordholder? [Sir Williams second with 1981, 1986, 1987]...


Edited by MetallurgicalHedonist, 09 February 2014 - 18:02.


#30 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 18:05

Sorry, I forgot "1996" for Sir Williams.



#31 sabjit

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 19:38

A lot of people seem to be missing this - they keep saying "superior Mercedes engine" but I'm not really sure where this comes from. 

Mercedes appear, at the moment, after 1 test, to have the most reliable engine. However, and this is a strong point, the Ferrari could easily turn out to be much more powerful, or superior. 

Second to that, the Renault reliability issues (after all, that's all it is) could be a straightforward fix, and come Bahrain they could be matching Mercedes, AND be much more powerful, too. 

We just don't know, and we all need to stop speculating on this! It's just testing, no team is running away with it yet, and Bahrain should reveal more. My bet is that Red Bull will be running with the best of them there, their initial problems merely teething. You don't have that much money and develop an engine for that long, for it to be this unreliable. Likely just too marginal packaging and a small mechanical issue. We will see. 

Remember, we have no information as of yet for performance, merely opinion from commentators. Don't make yourselves a fool. 

 

Interesting you say that considering in the Renault thread you were banging on about how you knew that Renault had solved their problems and that they would be right as rain by Bahrain (excuse the rhyme). Whilst saying you had to keep your sources secret.


Edited by sabjit, 09 February 2014 - 19:39.


#32 rockdude101

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 19:43

Why doesn't anyone remember the first half of '13?

 

Learn the lessons of '13 - a competitive start doesn't mean that come June, the FIA won't just step in, revert to '13 regs and one team goes on to win every single race thereafter.

 

All this optimism hype isn't needed, the FIA have shown that with enough pressure and a few retirements the rules will change, again. What's needed is consistancy throughout the season of competitive racing.



#33 sabjit

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 21:07

Why doesn't anyone remember the first half of '13?

 

Learn the lessons of '13 - a competitive start doesn't mean that come June, the FIA won't just step in, revert to '13 regs and one team goes on to win every single race thereafter.

 

All this optimism hype isn't needed, the FIA have shown that with enough pressure and a few retirements the rules will change, again. What's needed is consistancy throughout the season of competitive racing.

 

What a stupid comment.

 

There is no way you can make rule changes of THAT magnitude mid-season.

 

Plus mid-season rule changes are done on safety grounds not in an attempt to reduce retirements.



#34 sennafan24

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 21:11

What a stupid comment.

 

There is no way you can make rule changes of THAT magnitude mid-season.

 

Plus mid-season rule changes are done on safety grounds not in an attempt to reduce retirements.

I would not say it was a "stupid" comment, but it is was one that overlooked other variables, such as the safety concerns you mentioned.

 

Also RB developed better than Mercedes and Ferrari over the Summer break. If I recall right (someone please correct me if I am incorrect) Ferrari's updates around Canada time did not work very well, and the gap widened between RB and Ferrari as a result.



#35 dau

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 21:11

Why doesn't anyone remember the first half of '13?

 

Learn the lessons of '13 - a competitive start doesn't mean that come June, the FIA won't just step in, revert to '13 regs and one team goes on to win every single race thereafter.

 

All this optimism hype isn't needed, the FIA have shown that with enough pressure and a few retirements the rules will change, again. What's needed is consistancy throughout the season of competitive racing.

Revert to '13 regs? Like what, bolt V8s on the car, take out a gear and duct-tape some wing extensions on the FW?



#36 AlexS

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 22:23

 Double points, engine sounds, the looks of the cars, Tilkedromes.. none of that bothers me. It's more the purity of the racing that interests me

 

Then you cannot say that you are an F1 fan. Its culture doesn't matter for you.

 

If the "purity" of racing is what matters to you any formula will do it for you.