221 replies to this topic

[Maustinsj]

Here he is:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/26178312

[UPRC]

People can say whatever they want about Jacques, but I agree with what he says there 100%.

[senna da silva]

Here he is:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/26178312

 

He's not wrong.

[MCH]

Yep painfully true :/

 

There's no turning back is there.

[pRy]

Eddie Irvine said something similar.

 

"I think Formula 1 has lost its way. This latest rule of double points for the last race is insanity. That actually made me realise I am not going to watch another race until that rule gets kicked out. That is just embarrassing. It really is. They should be ashamed of themselves.

"I just think the people involved in these decisions have lost the plot. They have no understanding of reality and the people who are in there have been in too long. They have blown up the history of the sport by changing the points, changing the qualifying and now double points for the final race!"

You can usually trust people who have left the circle of F1 to say what the rest of us are thinking. Those within it seem to only know how to put positive spin on things.

[Ellios]

"So they are not fast, paid to race and highly uninteresting on top of it. It is tough for F1 right now."

[ZionLH]

[sennafan24]

I know some felt I came across as a J.V hater earlier in the thread (which I feel I am not). I recently read a book about him by Timothy Collins, and greatly enjoyed it. I felt he came across really well in that interview, he even gave Kimi a bit of a compliment for once. He is very well spoken, and clearly quite bright.

 

That BBC article I also agree with most of what he says. The drivers I do feel have enough are colorful enough these days. Maybe one could argue they are a bit too careful to not ruffle feathers at times, so I know what he means. The DRS and Double Points opinions he offers, I greatly agree with.

Edited by sennafan24, 14 February 2014 - 00:00.

[F1 Mike]

I wish others with history in the sport would speak up about the issues in F1 in this way - we need big voices to help us, as I don't feel we are being listened to.

 

The opinion is very clear that double points is absolutely stupid and has no place in the sport in any way. Very few people want this rule to happen...

[Paco]

2 thumbs up to Eddie and Jacques.  At least some F1 members still have their bearings... and to think Eddie and Jacques would be the voice of reason..... OMG.. that alone speaks volumes of the idiotic F1 rules and powers at be are...

 

I would love to see 1 race run the same way it was in 1996... too bad it wont happen. 

 

12 lap qualifying

No parc ferme

Unlimited fuel stops

Unlimited number of tires

Points 10-6-4-3-2-1

use whatever compound you want of tires whenever you want

NO DRS during the race

No penalities for car reliability

 

For future races, parc ferme post qualifying introduced but that's it!  can change tires prior to the race on the grid.

Edited by Paco, 14 February 2014 - 02:16.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I understand the sentiment of JV and Eddie, but I don't think they understand the problem F1 is facing right.  The problem is that the teams are too good, much better than they were even two decades ago.  When the teams are good, the mistakes are few and far between, and the races become a well-oiled procession.  That's why F1 felt like they needed to throw the wrenches into the works.  Maybe stuff like DRS was the wrong way to go, but going back to the simpler rules will not work.

[Paco]

Has nothing to do with teams being too good (or equalized).. it has to do with toooooo tight a rule book and long life components (multi-race) and those key components also being shared between teams!  So reliability becomes too high.. teams to restrictred in developments and no testing to make grounds so what you end up with .. no competition and 100% reliability. 

 

If F1 went back to reliability not being a focus and allowed engines, transmissions etc to be pushed to the limit, you wouldn't be see'ing the equalization any longer.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Has nothing to do with teams being too good (or equalized).. it has to do with toooooo tight a rule book and long life components (multi-race) and those key components also being shared between teams!  So reliability becomes too high.. teams to restrictred in developments and no testing to make grounds so what you end up with .. no competition and 100% reliability. 

 

If F1 went back to reliability not being a focus and allowed engines, transmissions etc to be pushed to the limit, you wouldn't be see'ing the equalization any longer.

I doubt it.  Mechanical engineering went a long way in the last two decades.  Engineers can now create parts much more consistently, and they can also be far more precise in trading performance for reliability.  With more precision and consistency, the payoff for endangering your reliability for performance is just not there anymore.

[Disgrace]

Has nothing to do with teams being too good (or equalized).. it has to do with toooooo tight a rule book and long life components (multi-race) and those key components also being shared between teams!  So reliability becomes too high.. teams to restrictred in developments and no testing to make grounds so what you end up with .. no competition and 100% reliability. 

 

If F1 went back to reliability not being a focus and allowed engines, transmissions etc to be pushed to the limit, you wouldn't be see'ing the equalization any longer.

 

Though I agree with some of your other points, I don't think this "too reliable" idea has any credence whatsoever. The world has changed: consumer electronics are now hugely reliable. It would be unfathomable with their hundreds of millions for teams to produce unreliable lemons on the race track.

 

Changes such as more credible stewarding, improved tyres, the removal of gimmicks such as DRS or even arguing that a green agenda has no place in F1 is in keeping in the present and/or future. Asking for unreliability is really asking for F1 to go back in time by decades.

[PayasYouRace]

2 thumbs up to Eddie and Jacques.  At least some F1 members still have their bearings... and to think Eddie and Jacques would be the voice of reason..... OMG.. that alone speaks volumes of the idiotic F1 rules and powers at be are...

 

I would love to see 1 race run the same way it was in 1996... too bad it wont happen. 

 

12 lap qualifying

No parc ferme

Unlimited fuel stops

Unlimited number of tires

Points 10-6-4-3-2-1

use whatever compound you want of tires whenever you want

NO DRS during the race

No penalities for car reliability

 

For future races, parc ferme post qualifying introduced but that's it!  can change tires prior to the race on the grid.

 

It's a nice idea but I don't see the point (no pun intended) of running a single race to a different points system. I'd like the see the rest tried for one race, though there are pretty good reasons for a lot of the new rules.

[FerrariV12]

Never really supported him during his career, but it's impossible to disagree with anything he says here.

[EvanRainer]

2 thumbs up to Eddie and Jacques.  At least some F1 members still have their bearings... and to think Eddie and Jacques would be the voice of reason..... OMG.. that alone speaks volumes of the idiotic F1 rules and powers at be are...

 

I would love to see 1 race run the same way it was in 1996... too bad it wont happen. 

 

12 lap qualifying

No parc ferme

Unlimited fuel stops

Unlimited number of tires

Points 10-6-4-3-2-1

use whatever compound you want of tires whenever you want

NO DRS during the race

No penalities for car reliability

 

For future races, parc ferme post qualifying introduced but that's it!  can change tires prior to the race on the grid.

 

Your post makes no sense. I watch because I like racing. How do most of the items on your list improve racing in any way? How the hell does the point system make any difference? Refuelling makes things WORSE.

 

I'm sorry but it's nothing but nostalgia.

[Oho]

Never really supported him during his career, but it's impossible to disagree with anything he says here.

 

I think it is rather ironic he whines about lack of personality in F1 considering how eager he is to lambast the one driver who most seems like his own master not feeling compelled to toe the company line.

Edited by Oho, 14 February 2014 - 09:48.

[Jovanotti]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=EKd_V4FCQlk

Well I totally was with Villeneuve on the rule change insanity there - until he had to take a cheap dig and say that the new formula could suit Räikkönen because it's not physical anymore. That's when I tuned out and put the Jacques back in his box.

Edited by Jovanotti, 14 February 2014 - 09:48.

[Oho]

Well I totally was with Villeneuve on the rule change insanity there - until he had to take a cheap dig and say that the new formula could suit Räikkönen because it's not physical anymore. That's when I tuned out and put the Jacques back in his box again.

 

Must have been some seriously strong piss Räikkönen passed into Villeneuves breakfast cereal, or alternatively the heir presumptive to Mika Häkkinen at  McLaren is still hurt over being up staged by the new kid on the block.

[LuckyStrike1]

Yeah god forbid someone would say anything other than only overly positive things about Kimi. 

 

Like it's such a bad thing to suggest that for all Kimis good qualitites as an F1-driver, completely total peak fitness is not one of them 

[RoutariEnjinu]

The cost cutting stuff needs to stay. The arbitrary stuff needs to go.

DRS isn't cost cutting. Neither is an engine freeze. Neither is park feeme.

[Oho]

Yeah god forbid someone would say anything other than only overly positive things about Kimi. 

 

 

 

Yeah its almost as bad as some one daring to question Saint Jacques's motives for passing almost exclusively negative comments on Räikkönen reminiscent of Cato with respect to Carthage. Why cant he give it a rest?

[SenorSjon]

Though I agree with some of your other points, I don't think this "too reliable" idea has any credence whatsoever. The world has changed: consumer electronics are now hugely reliable. It would be unfathomable with their hundreds of millions for teams to produce unreliable lemons on the race track.

 

Changes such as more credible stewarding, improved tyres, the removal of gimmicks such as DRS or even arguing that a green agenda has no place in F1 is in keeping in the present and/or future. Asking for unreliability is really asking for F1 to go back in time by decades.

 

When cars are driven in anger to the max of their ability, parts WILL fail. When they cruise around on parking lots without chance of hitting anything off track, the cars will become more reliable. Add the longlife misery, headlights and a license plate and you are good to go.

[LuckyStrike1]

Yeah its almost as bad as some one daring to question Saint Jacques's motives for passing almost exclusively negative comments on Räikkönen reminiscent of Cato with respect to Carthage. Why cant he give it a rest?

 

 

I didn't even see it as a negative comment about Kimi from Jacques. Just stating something that a lot of people are stating. When listing the fittest F1 drivers Kimi hardly is on top of that list. All drivers have their strengths and their weaknessess. But pointing out something weak with Kimi always seems to be met with such more hostility. 

 

Jacques does have a point here. I think he makes a lot of great points about the current state of F1, and I do not think his point about less physical cars being more of a plus to Kimi than say Fernando is taken out of the blue or something to be shot down or something from an underlining motive to talk down Kimi. I doubt he needs a special motive to say that. It's like people expressing doubts about Sebastian Vettel racing through the field, or Fernando Alonso handling a quick(er) team mate or Lewis Hamilton handling when things are not going his way etc. 

 

There are "negative" or less positive things to say even about the God we know as Kimi. Live with it ;) Otherwise I feel this could be a tough season for the most enthusiastic Kimi fans. 

 

Back on the topic you can say a lot of things about Jacques Villeneuve and Eddie Irvine but they have expressed some valid opinions about the direction of F1 I think a lot of fans of the sport agree with - and a lot of writers on this forum. One of the better points in Jacques latest interview I think is that F1 going this more artificial route puts them under pressure to continue to do this constantaly to a point where the sport has changed fundamentally away from the traditional values of the sport. NASCAR is a good example of that, they are feeling forced to continue with artificial regulation changes to keep the "interest" up to a point where they are risking to get lost about what they are and stand for and F1 is now running the same risk. 

 

I'm happy former drivers such as Eddie Irvine and Villeneuve express that opinion because from the people inside the sport currently active will not say that which is a shame. 

[OvDrone]

The Jaques is spot on.

 

The only two things I like about the new formula are the engines and driver numbers.

[Jovanotti]

Of course it should be allowed to speak negatively about Räikkönen, that's not the point. However, I find it a bit hard to argue that a driver that showed his arguably most spectacular performances in the refuelling era (i.e. pushing all the time) with the fastest cars ever in the history of F1 lacks physical fitness. There might be fitter drivers than Räikkönen, but it's never been a disadvantage for him.
Moreover, if you think JV's argument through to the end, all he says is that ultimately, when you take physical fitness out of the equation, Kimi is the faster, more talented driver than Alonso, so it's all good

And on topic, as already said, I absolutely agree with his other points. We should have more active F1 drivers sticking their heads out on this matter.

Edited by Jovanotti, 14 February 2014 - 10:42.

[chunder27]

I am struggling to think of much positive to say about this.

 

Especially from a man who put money above everything in F1, he drive for a team that paid him a lot but did very little, then moaned incessantly.

 

He was always outspoken, but then wouldnt allow his name to be used in games etc, as he was not a member of the drivers association for some reason.

 

His comments are fair enough and true.

 

But just wish they had come from someone like Kubica or Heidfeld, someone who was not always moaning when they were being paid millions to drive F1 cars to a poor level at times and largely to earn money.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

It became abit Mickey Mouse  when then 25 points for a winner rule came into effect. That undermines the achieves of people such as Senna, Schumacher etc....when people like Vettel etc can accure as many points as they had within a handful of seasons. Something quite unjust about that. 

 

Then it got stupider with DRS - though I can understand why they did that.

 

KERS I can understand - modern technology and all that.

 

Double points for the last round again undermines earlier achievments.

 

Then we have these ridiculous phallic noses on the front of the gears, lumpy sounding engines and it does seem like a step backwards.

 

I know costs have to be looked at but surely there are better ways of getting things done.

[intelligentsia]

I didn't even see it as a negative comment about Kimi from Jacques. Just stating something that a lot of people are stating. When listing the fittest F1 drivers Kimi hardly is on top of that list. All drivers have their strengths and their weaknessess. But pointing out something weak with Kimi always seems to be met with such more hostility. 

 

Jacques does have a point here. I think he makes a lot of great points about the current state of F1, and I do not think his point about less physical cars being more of a plus to Kimi than say Fernando is taken out of the blue or something to be shot down or something from an underlining motive to talk down Kimi. I doubt he needs a special motive to say that. It's like people expressing doubts about Sebastian Vettel racing through the field, or Fernando Alonso handling a quick(er) team mate or Lewis Hamilton handling when things are not going his way etc. 

 

There are "negative" or less positive things to say even about the God we know as Kimi. Live with it ;) Otherwise I feel this could be a tough season for the most enthusiastic Kimi fans. 

 

Back on the topic you can say a lot of things about Jacques Villeneuve and Eddie Irvine but they have expressed some valid opinions about the direction of F1 I think a lot of fans of the sport agree with - and a lot of writers on this forum. One of the better points in Jacques latest interview I think is that F1 going this more artificial route puts them under pressure to continue to do this constantaly to a point where the sport has changed fundamentally away from the traditional values of the sport. NASCAR is a good example of that, they are feeling forced to continue with artificial regulation changes to keep the "interest" up to a point where they are risking to get lost about what they are and stand for and F1 is now running the same risk. 

 

I'm happy former drivers such as Eddie Irvine and Villeneuve express that opinion because from the people inside the sport currently active will not say that which is a shame. 

 

 

Things like "expressing doubts about Sebastian Vettel racing through the field, or Fernando Alonso handling a quick(er) team mate" are issues or things that we can actually judge for ourselves as these things happen on track in front of our eyes. But in truth no one really knows how fit every driver is, we dont follow them around every day to see how hard they train.  Kimi has gone through a lot of different eras in F1 and he has never had any issues with fitness. In fact it has just been reported that Kimi has lost 4kg for the new regulations. 

I am not saying Kimi is the fittest driver around, but just because he doesn't post his daily training regime on twitter, doesn't mean he isn't actually doing the training. 

 

Of course Villeneuve is entitled to voice his opinions about Kimi as much as he likes. In fact he has been voicing negative options about Kimi since his first day in F1.  In return we are allowed to voice are opinions on what Villeneuve has to say. 

[RallymanKujala]

. When listing the fittest F1 drivers Kimi hardly is on top of that list. 

 

Can you give a source to that list? I don't know if you and Vileneuve have but I've actually watched the races and seeing Kimi take many podiums has been revealing when the top three is being shown chilling out after the race before the podium ceremony it is very obvious that Kimi is not one inch behind in fitness compared to the other top guys.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

Sometimes, I don't understand his criticism, e.g. in 2012 where he complained about the drivers and that the old times with Schumacher or himself were better (meaning that there were more characters). Didn't he say the same things 10-15 years before by criticising Schumacher and that the generation before that consisted by much more real characters (Senna, Mansell, Prost)? In that aspect, his criticism about 2010 or 2011 or 2012 is not believable, unfortunately.

 

However, sometimes he criticised Formula 1 when no one of the other drivers dared to criticise because of cowardice. I am talking about the time when F1 was about to have the big rule changes for 1998. If I remember correctly, he was even told or criticized by some FIA people to shup. His criticism during that time was not only really brave from him but he was also right.

 

A general issue: I don't understand the people who complain e.g. about 2012. Did anyone notice that it was not completely a lottery. It cannot be a coincidence that in most cases of the championship standings after each race, all the WDCs were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th in the WDC standings. How can that be a lottery? It wasn't fact that in mid-season for example Perez, Vergne, diResta were 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Alonso, Hamilton, Räikkönen in 8th, 10th or 15th position.

 

Overall, even in 2012 it was not a lottery. OK, a Williams which was almost always useless at that time won a race but that result was an exception. It was not a lottery of that kind that suddenly Caterham or Force India or Marussia won two or three times...

[RuleyRamundo]

JV has the audacity to comment about KR even though he won F1, INDY 500, PPG Titles. JV what are you thinking young man you obviously have no right to, as your CV proves. WR 2015 CHAMP in the making.

Edited by RuleyRamundo, 14 February 2014 - 12:59.

[Paco]

As for kimi, he isn't exactly in perfect health. The less strain on him and his back, the better chance it won't interfere with his driving! Jacques knows all too well how hard it is to be quick and driving with a horrible back injury

Edited by Paco, 14 February 2014 - 14:41.

[Paco]

It's a nice idea but I don't see the point (no pun intended) of running a single race to a different points system. I'd like the see the rest tried for one race, though there are pretty good reasons for a lot of the new rules.

 

To offset the double points race at season end ;-)

[Paco]

When cars are driven in anger to the max of their ability, parts WILL fail. When they cruise around on parking lots without chance of hitting anything off track, the cars will become more reliable. Add the longlife misery, headlights and a license plate and you are good to go.

 

Totally agree.  I fail to understand why soooo many F1 fans do not understand that reliability is a function of lack of development, long life components and drivers not pushing everything to the limit.  When you're cruising around lap after lap at 50% of the cars limits because you're worried that the tires are going to go off the cliff... things do not break!  When you're cruising around not taking kerbs hard .. things do not break.  When you're easy on a engine because it has to last multiple grandprix and heavon forbid one break before it can be retired and your further penalized with grid spots.. you make things way way way more overenginered then it needs to be... you scarifice speed for reliabliity in design and then if you over did it.. you can't go back and change things cause of stupid FIA freezes in development and no track time to test as test sessions are soooo soooo limited.. you spend your precious time testing aero and tires!

 

The biggest issue why things are so reliable is cause drivers are not stressing out the cars and engineers being soooo ultra conservative due to the engine and tire rules..  which leads to bland racing.

Edited by Paco, 14 February 2014 - 14:50.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I understand the sentiment of JV and Eddie, but I don't think they understand the problem F1 is facing right.  

 

Exactly. Other than the double points gripe(which I think pretty much everyone concurs with) it's nostalgia. 

[RealRacing]

I understand the sentiment of JV and Eddie, but I don't think they understand the problem F1 is facing right.  The problem is that the teams are too good, much better than they were even two decades ago.  When the teams are good, the mistakes are few and far between, and the races become a well-oiled procession.  That's why F1 felt like they needed to throw the wrenches into the works.  Maybe stuff like DRS was the wrong way to go, but going back to the simpler rules will not work.

I disagree with JV that 4 cars finishing a race 2 minutes apart from each other was good racing. I think that increased reliability has the potential to make races better, as it gives the chance of more cars fighting for positions during a race. However, what current F1 has failed at is making races closer, mainly because of the inability to address the aero problem. All the rest of gimmicks have been a result of this epic fail: DRS, tyres, stupid rules, etc. And now, on top of it all, they are re-introducing reliability and fuel consumption issues.

 

To me it's becoming more evident every day that it's not that F1 is failing to please its fans but that "traditional" fans are, increasingly, not the target F1 is catering to. So maybe F1 is being very successful at doing what they have strategically planned: winning over the younger audience. Whether all of us fans like either their characteristics and what they demand from F1 is another subject. 

[MikeV1987]

Sounds like more bitterness to me.

[David Lightman]

He's been bitter since he realised what a catastrophic decision it was to throw his career away at BAR just to make a few quid.

[doc83]

JV is right.

People say engine war would be bad for the sport. I think otherwise.  Few years of Energy Recovery Systems war (unlimited ERS boost) in F1 could actually safe millions of tons of fuel in the future.  I’d really prefer that over millions spend on tweaking Aero design to gain 1 point of downforce.

 

 

[Lemans]

Well said, Jacques. Again.

[SCUDmissile]

I wholeheartedly agree with Jacques. 

 

I think the year Formula 1 officially ceased to be a sport, and became a 'show' or 'sports entertainment' was 2011. With the DRS and Pirelli tyres.

We swallowed this because this was meant to be a temporary solution until the ground effects and other overtaking friendly ways of creating downforce became legal this year.

 

But since that has been scrapped, in its current state you cannot disagree with Jacques imho. Double points, sprinklers, shortcuts and all sorts of other foolery.

 

You get to the kinds of tracks that are getting races now too. Empty plasticdomes nobody cares about so some rich **** can have the show in his back yard for a year then forget about it.

The emphasis is on spectacle now, and not the challenge. They are concerned with how the cars look, if there are buildings with lights on near the track so it looks cool. I get the safety concerns but some of this is over the top. 

 

I have had this crazy thought, that Bernie is doing his best to screw up the sport as much as he can so that when he leaves it all goes to pot and he gets the credit for the health F! enjoyed. He did such an amazing job until these past few years where it has just been bizarre. This is just my mind wondering though so don't attach any credibility to this ramble.

[Paco]

Sounds like more bitterness to me.

 

 

He's been bitter since he realised what a catastrophic decision it was to throw his career away at BAR just to make a few quid.

 

I did not hear or read any bitterness what so ever nor has there been any in years.  More like the 2 of you need to get over the past and move on to the present issue at hand facing F1 and how sooooo many fans are disgusted with what is the current state of affairs vs. a driver who had faith in his manager and engineer team to have a leap of faith in a new project.  Any of us would kill for that level of opportunity to leave a team on the decline, loss of works engine to join a startup full of potential albeit naive too..  Wow. them breaks are tough in life..

[Deluxx]

I agree with him about the DRS crap... when you hear the announcers go "He's got DRS open!!" you pretty much know its a done deal... and theres nothing the driver in front can do about it.

 

Should be renamed the sitting duck system.

[EthanM]

I agree with him about the DRS crap... when you hear the announcers go "He's got DRS open!!" you pretty much know its a done deal... and theres nothing the driver in front can do about it.

 

Should be renamed the sitting duck system.

 

Sure there is, use DRS himself on the next DRS zone. Trouble is that it doesn't really happen in 99% of the overtakes cause the guy behind is genuinely faster than the guy he DRSed past and usually opens a gap

[MikeV1987]

I did not hear or read any bitterness what so ever nor has there been any in years.  More like the 2 of you need to get over the past and move on to the present issue at hand facing F1 and how sooooo many fans are disgusted with what is the current state of affairs vs. a driver who had faith in his manager and engineer team to have a leap of faith in a new project.  Any of us would kill for that level of opportunity to leave a team on the decline, loss of works engine to join a startup full of potential albeit naive too..  Wow. them breaks are tough in life..

Whatever, I'm not saying F1 doesn't have its problems. But it does sound like typical JV statements, funny how he bashes F1 when it seems not too long ago he was trying to get a race seat.

[SenorSjon]

Usually the guy in front has met the cliff earlier and has no hope of holding his position. Defensive driving died in Monza 2011.

[SealTheDiffuser]

JV please! STOP! Not your business anymore. But in some points I agree with him.

[Ross Stonefeld]

He was dead-on about one thing, a lot of the 'tactical' aspects of driving are now electronic. This will come as a surprise to most of you, but 'flat out' racing was a relatively recent invention. You had to conserve tires/cars/fuel a lot of the time. But most of it was down to the driver to figure out. 

 

Then: Feel, experience

Now: Steering wheel display