75 replies to this topic

[caccamolle]

so why on earth is F1 so stubborn to not only insist on having a GP there but also 2 weeks of testing ???

 

This is f*****ing Bahrain dudes !  I mean we might as well go to Afghanistan.

 

I could imagine some unreasonable reasons to have a GP there, but I fail at all levels when it comes to testing.

 

Illiminate me please.

 

 

[Andrew Hope]

If most of your calendar is racing in the boringest, sandiest, Tilkedromiest ribbons of asphalt you can, it makes sense to do most of your testing there too. It doesn't make sense to test at Monza when there's only one Monza on the calendar. There's 10 Bahrains.

[Lights]

Weather.

[dau]

It's warm, it's dry, it's relevant and it's probably cheap. Not sure if that's enough to illiminate you.

[Red17]

so why on earth is F1 so stubborn to not only insist on having a GP there but also 2 weeks of testing ???

 

This is f*****ing Bahrain dudes !  I mean we might as well go to Afghanistan.

 

I could imagine some unreasonable reasons to have a GP there, but I fail at all levels when it comes to testing.

 

Illiminate me please.

 

You would probably hate the truth, so I will just say it's for the good of Bahrain Motorsport development.

[OvDrone]

Sakhir who?

[apoka]

Weather and money, although the sand storms make it unlikely that the former is the main criterion.

[demet06]

We shouldn't be racing there never mind testing.

[Tommay]

Where do you think testing should be done? Remember it has to be warm, dry and cheap....

[SealTheDiffuser]

Money, Weather, Stupidity.

 

I think they will have a duststorm and rain!

[George Costanza]

Where do you think testing should be done? Remember it has to be warm, dry and cheap....

How about Estoril?

[george1981]

When it comes to cost. I presume the teams don't have to pay to hire the circuit, marshalls etc. This bill being picked up by the circuit itself.

I don't know about transport and accomodation costs. I assume the teams get a good deal or it is free if they have the right sponsor. Maybe Bernie now lays on the logistics as part of the package?

I can't see it being much cheaper than testing in Spain though. Plus being in Spain as has been shown the teams can fly new parts out overnight.

[demet06]

Barcelona was always the preferred testing venue for many of the teams. There was a time when teams had to nominate their "Home" track to do their testing. Most of the British teams opted for Silverstone whereas Williams nominated Barcelona as they could get better testing due to the nature of the corners and the weather at Barcelona.

[ollebompa]

I've been hoping F1 would gain a coscience but i guess i won't happen. There many places on the calender F1 should not be associated with and Bahrain is one of them

Edited by ollebompa, 15 February 2014 - 20:55.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think there's less issue with testing in Bahrain. It's not a point of soreness in the political issue. The race is.

[dau]

How about Estoril?

Temperatures around 13°C and rain every day?

 

Edited by dau, 15 February 2014 - 21:16.

[Zava]

abu-dhabi?
or it fails in the "cheap" department? maybe doesn't put enough stress on the tyres?

[Nonesuch]

so why on earth is F1 so stubborn to not only insist on having a GP there but also 2 weeks of testing ???

 

Andrew Hope summed it up: it's a good comparison to most of the races that take place 1) during the warmer months of the year and 2) on similarly designed circuits.

 

Illiminate me please.

 

The light show is in Abu Dhabi, not Bahrain. It's amazing though. All those colours at the Imperial Palace - or whatever it is supposed to be - look fantastic.

 

It's kind of a combination of the thrills of Eau Rouge and the colours of the grandstands at Silverstone, but in the sky.

 

[Maustinsj]

Illiminate me please.

One of the risks in Bahrain, I've heard!

Edited by Maustinsj, 15 February 2014 - 21:35.

[chunder27]

Reason?

 

Money, pure and simple and to think the damn aplce shouldnt even be on the calender int he first place.

 

Nice touch little short man, nice. 

[Amphicar]

If the F1 circus can stomach going to Bahrain for a Grand Prix, with all the adverse publicity that provokes, its a bit naive to think that they are going to have any qualms about going there for testing. If you've sold your soul to the Devil it's a bit late to start worrying about the smell of sulphur. 

[DutchQuicksilver]

Only one reason: Dry weather, which is essential with these new regulations.

[rhukkas]

Reason?

 

Money, pure and simple and to think the damn aplce shouldnt even be on the calender int he first place.

 

Nice touch little short man, nice. 

 

The FIA sent the junior kart championships to Bahrain and that has nothing to do with Bernie.

[ElDictatore]

As already said, weather foremost. Good facilities and the Bahrainis won't have a big problem keeping that intact (Remember the talks about the Jerez tarmac last year?) so I guess money plays a role too.

Don't know why this is a problem to anybody, if they get testing that might get them satisfied and they won't push for Bahrain as opening race. Hopefully

[EthanM]

so why on earth is F1 so stubborn to not only insist on having a GP there but also 2 weeks of testing ???

 

This is f*****ing Bahrain dudes !  I mean we might as well go to Afghanistan.

 

I could imagine some unreasonable reasons to have a GP there, but I fail at all levels when it comes to testing.

 

Illiminate me please.

 

cause the weather is consistent

cause it's pointless to test at 8 degrees ambient when the bulk of the races are run at 25+ degrees ambient

cause threat of rain is minimal

cause it's relatively close

cause it's cheap

[Red17]

Temperatures around 13°C and rain every day?

 

 

It's raining pretty much everwhere in western europe. Actually, it was worse the past weekend.

[charly0418]

Amazing paddock, great weather and the track offers enough different types of corners to make all nessecary tests.

[Atreiu]

It is probably a very good test track as well. It has enough variation in its layout and the run offs are vast enough that it is very rare to actually crash and do significant damage.

[Lord Snooty]

They should test in Melbourne.

They are going to be there for real in a short spell anyway. Set up a base, test the car, get results back to the factory, send updated parts to Melbers ready for the first race...

Besides, the teams love Australia and would be more than happy to be camped out there for the last month before the season kicks off.

Not sure how the Melbournians would feel tho'..

[Deluxx]

Pretty sure it has to do with PR as well.

 

I guess Burnie and Co. figure the more positive exposure F1 gets around the area, the more money they are going to make from selling tickets/merch.

[Fastcake]

They should test in Melbourne.

They are going to be there for real in a short spell anyway. Set up a base, test the car, get results back to the factory, send updated parts to Melbers ready for the first race...

Besides, the teams love Australia and would be more than happy to be camped out there for the last month before the season kicks off.

Not sure how the Melbournians would feel tho'..

 

Testing for a month at a street circuit the other side of the world? I have a feeling the teams may share the Melbournian sentiment...

[fabr68]

I imagine that if engines are going to fail due to overhearing, you want to test in hot weather before the engine freeze.

[HeadFirst]

If we eliminated all the places F1 should NOT visit (due to political or safety concerns), that would be quite a chunk out of the F1 schedule. Oz sounds like a good bet, but are there limits to the number of days that venue can be used? Btw the inappropriateness of host countries/cities is not limited to F1.

[Lord Snooty]

Testing for a month at a street circuit the other side of the world? I have a feeling the teams may share the Melbournian sentiment...

They are going to.be there in 4 weeks anyway so why would they object? Set up a base, shed jet lag, test on the circuit that hosts the first race. Get the ops team down south for Melbourne and the following race. Sounds ok to me...

[mtknot]

They should test in Melbourne.

They are going to be there for real in a short spell anyway. Set up a base, test the car, get results back to the factory, send updated parts to Melbers ready for the first race...

Besides, the teams love Australia and would be more than happy to be camped out there for the last month before the season kicks off.

Not sure how the Melbournians would feel tho'..

Albert Park is in the city and doesn't really have nice facilities. Nice for a street circuit, but nothing like Bahrain. Also the noise pollution would be a huge issue considering that tests run for much longer than races do. Accommodation in Australia/Cost of Living is also through the roof so it likely winds up a lot cheaper to do the test in Bahrain despite the fact they're using a whole circuit. 

From an Engineering standpoint, Bahrain is Ideal. The warmer temperatures reflect what is experienced in-season, and the elevation changes on the course help bring out issues such as pitch sensitivity/yaw sensitivity of aero as well as the balance of a car. If you were to test on a track like Melbourne, there would be little correlation between the performance in Melbourne and a track like Spa, whereas testing in Bahrain - a track which has a mix of elements would bring out more of the car's characteristics. I'm pretty sure it's not just the FIA that want to test in Bahrain, but the Engineers as well.

Now, let's ask why they haven't tested elsewhere like Spa, or Turkey? Weather. + Accomodation/Costs 

 

So yeah,There are many reasonable explanations as to why they test there instead of elsewhere.

Also the OP might want to watch their tone because that passes off as fairly xenophobic. 

Edited by mtknot, 16 February 2014 - 00:51.

[charly0418]

They are going to.be there in 4 weeks anyway so why would they object? Set up a base, shed jet lag, test on the circuit that hosts the first race. Get the ops team down south for Melbourne and the following race. Sounds ok to me...

 

Testing in a street circuit isnt the best idea. Walls are too close to the track and there's a serious lack of fast speed corners, where the cars are truly tested. That's what made Spain great for it, but Bahrain is a pretty decent track as well.

[rhukkas]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bahrain were covering shipping costs as well. Makes sense.

 

btw anyone who gets on their high horse about 'greed' in f1 by certain individuals.. simply put... you're watching the wrong sport.

[Lord Snooty]

Albert Park is in the city and doesn't really have nice facilities. Nice for a street circuit, but nothing like Bahrain. Also the noise pollution would be a huge issue considering that tests run for much longer than races do. Accommodation in Australia/Cost of Living is also through the roof so it likely winds up a lot cheaper to do the test in Bahrain despite the fact they're using a whole circuit.

From an Engineering standpoint, Bahrain is Ideal. The warmer temperatures reflect what is experienced in-season, and the elevation changes on the course help bring out issues such as pitch sensitivity/yaw sensitivity of aero as well as the balance of a car. If you were to test on a track like Melbourne, there would be little correlation between the performance in Melbourne and a track like Spa, whereas testing in Bahrain - a track which has a mix of elements would bring out more of the car's characteristics. I'm pretty sure it's not just the FIA that want to test in Bahrain, but the Engineers as well.

Now, let's ask why they haven't tested elsewhere like Spa, or Turkey? Weather. + Accomodation/Costs

So yeah,There are many reasonable explanations as to why they test there instead of elsewhere.

Also the OP might want to watch their tone because that passes off as fairly xenophobic.

You are, of course, correct and I was being more than a little disingenuous. Money, sponsors and TV rights dictate the modern F1 circus.

But it would be great to see testing coincide with a revived Tasman Series; run pre season testing as a non points scoring series of meetings down south through Jan / Feb and early March. They do it in soccer (pre season 'friendlies') so why not in F1?

[rhukkas]

Not sure how the Melbournians would feel tho'..

 

I know how they'd feel - pissed off. 3 days is already too high for many of them

[PNSD]

The issue with winter testing in the past was that track temperatures rarely went above 20 degrees. However, come the first race track temperatures are often above that, and remain so for the rest of the season! We all know how track temperature effect's tyres and performance. Simply put... the effect is HUGE! 

 

If you want an extreme example of the differences between winter testing and understanding and in-season then look at the Honda RA106. Set a lap record in testing I believe, was extremely quick, consistent then from the first practice of the first race Honda quickly realised all was not well with their car. At least how the car was treating it's tyres in the hotter track temps. Look at Australia the perfect example. Button pole by 7 tenths I believe? Yet in the race was... not fantastic. Honda's early season car development was halted completely until they understood the tyre situation, and that put their whole season back by a fair degree. Their recovery in the second half was amazing but should have been needed in the first place. I attribute the early season failure down to one thing. Cold track temperatures in winter testing.

Fast forward to Silverstone 2013. Numerous blow outs... why hadn't this happened before? 

 

Well SIlverstone was the first track to put the tyres through intense lateral loading for an extended time. Not only that but it was the change in direction. Copse to Stowe for example! It was a situation that current generation of tyres had not yet experienced. I called it when it happened, F1 needs to test at tracks with temperatures they will find during the season! 

[rmpugh]

They should test in Melbourne.

They are going to be there for real in a short spell anyway. Set up a base, test the car, get results back to the factory, send updated parts to Melbers ready for the first race...

Besides, the teams love Australia and would be more than happy to be camped out there for the last month before the season kicks off.

Not sure how the Melbournians would feel tho'..

 

Given that they are pissed off at just having the race weekend, I wouldn't suggest Australia as a good place at all. Too many greeny nutjobs. 

 

Bahrain is ideal. Hot enough to simulate most races, and with a government that doesn't give a **** about green issues.

[aray]

benefit of Bahrain is test can be made in warm weather(Europe is cold at this time of the year)...also most likely teams get paid by the Royal family and co. for going there...so win win situation..

[CoolBreeze]

Weather. And i think the teams also needs to be fair and test in the heat, to see how reliable the engines are. Remember Sepang is not a cold race. 

[ste3900]

As many have said before its the weather and its consistency.  I live here in Bahrain and its due to be a nice steady 22-3 for the majority of the week warming up on Friday & Saturday to 26-27 which will allow the teams to test over a range of temps.  

 

There is minimal chance of rain (0% chance for each day atm)  and we dont get sand/dust storms at this time of year, thats more June time.

 

Plus parts can be shipped out here overnight.  It takes a little longer than to spain (maybe an additional 6 hours or so) but the benefits of the consistent & more realistic weather outweigh the additional time.

 

Overall im looking forward to head down to the track on Friday to see how the new cars behave/sound in real life!

[ste3900]

Plus its not like 'Afghanistan' here as you put it.   Have you ever been and visited to see for yourself or are you just trusting hearsay & sensationalist media etc?

 

Like in every city/country in the world you will find trouble if you go looking for it.  The very small sporadic issues are isolated in certain areas.  

[yasushi888]

Plus its not like 'Afghanistan' here as you put it.   Have you ever been and visited to see for yourself or are you just trusting hearsay & sensationalist media etc?

 

Like in every city/country in the world you will find trouble if you go looking for it.  The very small sporadic issues are isolated in certain areas.  

 

Well said, Glad some one finally pointed this out. 

[chunder27]

Point is that right noa a lot of Arab states are faling over themselves to host anything, be it a World Cup in the hottest place on earth!  GP's where the population and attendance at the races is largely visitors not the countries own public, or buying football teams as if that shows that theya re at the forefront of winning in sport.

 

Money buys you ownership, it does little else.

 

The fact a kart arce went there was probably becasue they paid for the travel, and maybe some arab kid is racing in one of the classes, they ahve no other reason to go there.

 

Unless Todt is trying to be like Blatter and take motorsport to the places it has never been before!  Sorry, why did we go to Hungary year after year?  Nothing to do with Marlboro and the fact most Hungarians smoke like chimneys?

 

Love it FIA, keep at it boys

[LuckyStrike1]

Because dictatorships hangs out with dictatorships. 

[Nonesuch]

Money buys you ownership, it does little else.

 

There was this great article about the regimes of Abu Dhabi and other similar states and their desperate attempt to attract all these international events, and how organisers and participants were basically mocking the hosts for wasting millions of dollars on single-purpose facilities that have little daily relevance for normal citizens. I must have linked to it earlier, but I can't find it now.

[Fontainebleau]

In 2009 Ferrari, BMW and Toyota decided to test in Bahrain to avoid the miserable weather coditions in Europe; the rest of the teams went to Jerez.

 

For two days the teams in Bahrain couldn't hit the track because a sandstorm made it impossible for the emergency helicopter to fly. In the meanwhile, McLaren, Renault, Toro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams had four full days of test in Jerez. The other three teams waited and took the two days they had missed on the following week.

 

While I understand that wet weather is far from ideal for testing, and in this particular year Spain is subject to plenty of rain and strong winds, given the experience in 2009 I don't think that it can be considered a good reason for moving the test to Bahrain. Plus, with the difficulties that the new engines could bring (and that some teams have indeed had), I would have expected that staying close to the factories would have a key criteria for this season.

 

Anyway, the key thing is to have the cars back on track!