68 replies to this topic

[emmanuelrubi]

According to F1today.

 

F1Today.net has received information from a highly creditable source stating that the legendary Engine manufacturer Cosworth are in the process of developing an engine for Formula 1 in 2015.

 

 

 

We contacted Cosworth regarding the information we had received, but their spokesperson declined to comment on the matter. It is expected that an announcement for their participation as an engine supplier next year will take place later in 2014.

 

Edited by SophieB, 26 February 2014 - 17:56.

[Spillage]

Will be good to have them back. The engine market's a bit stale at the moment with only three (four next year) suppliers. Does this mean they have received interest from a team or teams?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I thought they'd designed one already? 

[maverick69]

Hello Ford EcoBoost F1........

All so very timely

[dau]

Hello Ford EcoBoost F1........

All so very timely

Yea, that fits perfectly into what Racecar Engineering wrote.

 

http://www.racecar-e...return-in-2015/

 

Would be great. Hope we'll see some more manufacturers in the next few years.

[Francesc]

But with who?? All the current teams have long term contracts if I¡m not mistaken. So only Haas, if they get the nod, seems to be a real posibility to run their engines.

[Francesc]

BTW Joe Saward is on it too

 

http://joesaward.wor...cosworth-to-f1/

[Jackmancer]

Honda is back as engine supplier as well, I do wonder if Cosworth will find a team to supply, especially with the credentials of their last F1 campaign. 

[ollebompa]

But with who?? All the current teams have long term contracts if I¡m not mistaken. So only Haas, if they get the nod, seems to be a real posibility to run their engines.

Jaguar!

 

Edit:Ford sold both Jag and Cosworth, i remember now!

 

Possibly a factory team under the Ford name if they still are working together in some way,

Edited by ollebompa, 26 February 2014 - 17:42.

[Francesc]

This will only work out if a manufacturer supports them. I would love to see Ford back to F1.

Edited by Francesc, 26 February 2014 - 17:35.

[BackmarkerUK]

If Cosworth's 2014 engine was put on ice thanks to not having a partner, then does this mean that they do have a partner for 2015?  And if so, who?  It's obviously not McLaren, Mercedes or Ferrari.  Enstone have just announced an extension with Renault, and I would expect Red Bull to stay with Renault (though I think the partnership is a little fragile: Red Bull at the moment aren't happy with the 2014 powertrain; Renault would prefer that they got more publicity out of the relationship, feeling that Infiniti is benefiting more than the rest of Renault).  IIRC correctly some of Caterham's commercially-sold cars are available with Ford Ecoboost engines, so they're a possibility I suppose, though I had thought the Alpine would keep the Caterham-Renault relationship alive, at least as long as Tony Fernandes wanted to be in F1, and that assumes that Cosworth will be back with Ford engines.  Williams surely wouldn't give up on the best engines they've had since BMW easily.  Force India's link with Mercedes looks safe enough for now, but I suppose it shouldn't be ruled out.  But that leaves Toro Rosso (and there are surely advantages to them having the same engines as Red Bull); Sauber (historically a good little Ferrari customer, but I suppose could be encouraged to take on Cosworth/Ford engines if they thought they were competitive and cheap); Marussia (makes sense to keep Ferrari engines as long as they're running Bianchi); and any new teams (Haas were rumoured to be potential Ferrari customers; if the Dacia involvement in Colin Kolles' effort are true then Renault would be the obvious choice).

So...Force India Ford?  Caterham Cosworth?  Red Bull Ecoboost?  

[senna da silva]

If Cosworth's 2014 engine was put on ice thanks to not having a partner, then does this mean that they do have a partner for 2015?  And if so, who?  It's obviously not McLaren, Mercedes or Ferrari.  Enstone have just announced an extension with Renault, and I would expect Red Bull to stay with Renault (though I think the partnership is a little fragile: Red Bull at the moment aren't happy with the 2014 powertrain; Renault would prefer that they got more publicity out of the relationship, feeling that Infiniti is benefiting more than the rest of Renault).  IIRC correctly some of Caterham's commercially-sold cars are available with Ford Ecoboost engines, so they're a possibility I suppose, though I had thought the Alpine would keep the Caterham-Renault relationship alive, at least as long as Tony Fernandes wanted to be in F1, and that assumes that Cosworth will be back with Ford engines.  Williams surely wouldn't give up on the best engines they've had since BMW easily.  Force India's link with Mercedes looks safe enough for now, but I suppose it shouldn't be ruled out.  But that leaves Toro Rosso (and there are surely advantages to them having the same engines as Red Bull); Sauber (historically a good little Ferrari customer, but I suppose could be encouraged to take on Cosworth/Ford engines if they thought they were competitive and cheap); Marussia (makes sense to keep Ferrari engines as long as they're running Bianchi); and any new teams (Haas were rumoured to be potential Ferrari customers; if the Dacia involvement in Colin Kolles' effort are true then Renault would be the obvious choice).

So...Force India Ford?  Caterham Cosworth?  Red Bull Ecoboost?  

 

There are rumours of Infiniti leaving red bull at the end of this year which would coincide with the cossie return. RBR and Toro Rosso to run the cossies in 2015?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I can't see why Infiniti would leave? I thought they were getting a trillion dollars in advertising from it?

[senna da silva]

I can't see why Infiniti would leave? I thought they were getting a trillion dollars in advertising from it?

 

It's a rumour, I think it was Autoweek. 

There seems to have been a lot of fingerpointing over the last few weeks between RBR and Renault, trouble in paradise?

[Risil]

Lotus and Cosworth, underwritten by Ford. Think of the nostalgia potential.

Edited by Risil, 26 February 2014 - 18:08.

[senna da silva]

Lotus and Cosworth, underwritten by Ford. Think of the nostalgia potential.

 

That was my first thought as well, but they just signed a new agreement with Renault for 2014 and beyond.

[Fastcake]

Yea, that fits perfectly into what Racecar Engineering wrote.

 

http://www.racecar-e...return-in-2015/

 

Would be great. Hope we'll see some more manufacturers in the next few years.

 

That was exactly what entered my mind. If Ford does want to get involved again, then it's obvious they would partner with Cosworth. There had to be a reason they constructed a turbo unit after all, and there are certainly teams out there who would welcome a customer engine deal.

[FullThrottleF1]

Haas-Cosworth? I can see it working. No one else would change and they are the only new entrants? that seem viable.

[senna da silva]

Haas-Cosworth? I can see it working. No one else would change and they are the only new entrants? that seem viable.

 

It wouldn't be funded by Ford, too much conflict with the NASCAR program.

[427MkIV]

It wouldn't be funded by Ford, too much conflict with the NASCAR program.

Ganassi has Chevrolets in NASCAR and IndyCar and Ford EcoBoosts in TUSCC. Penske races Chevrolet engines in IndyCar and Fords in NASCAR. So there's precedent.

[HaydenFan]

It wouldn't be funded by Ford, too much conflict with the NASCAR program.

 

Also, why would Ford get back in with Cosworth? They sold them. It was during the mass sell-off of everything they bought in the 90's, but they weren't really struggling for money. 

 

Like said, who'd want to get on board after their last hurrah? Even with the issue Renault is presenting during testing, I'd bet a team would rather stick with a proven program than something new. And they are giving themselves a year to develop the engine? That'd put them at least 2 years behind Honda. 

 

So we have what?

Ferrari

Renault

Mercedes

Honda (is a customer program available for other teams?)

& potentially Cosworth

 

5 engines for 11-12(?) teams. Like the diversity. A manufacturer battle per se, and doesn't require manufacturer teams. Better for the sport. 

[SR388]

When's the last time a cossie has been worth a darn? I remember hearing the v10s back in 2005. Those cossies sounded drastically worse than their rivals.

Good to have them back though.

[Nonesuch]

Sounds good, provided they have the funds and facilities to make a proper competitor and not just a power unit for the Eternal Backmarkers.

[senna da silva]

When's the last time a cossie has been worth a darn? I remember hearing the v10s back in 2005. Those cossies sounded drastically worse than their rivals.

Good to have them back though.

 

1994 Benetton Ford. Stewart Ford was ok as well.

Edited by senna da silva, 26 February 2014 - 18:42.

[study]

Also, why would Ford get back in with Cosworth? They sold them.

 

Maybe because Ford has the most wins of any engine manufacturer in F1 ever and Every Ford engine has being built by Cosworth.

[study]

When's the last time a cossie has been worth a darn? I remember hearing the v10s back in 2005. Those cossies sounded drastically worse than their rivals.

Good to have them back though.

 

funding issues, with Ford backing theyd have more potential to develop.

[maverick69]

funding issues, with Ford backing theyd have more potential to develop.

Yep. An easy way in to an exciting new era with an old friend.

Downsizing has never been so easy.........

[SR388]

1994 Benetton Ford. Stewart Ford was ok as well.

Not sure how impressive that will look in the sales presentation.

Are they still British owned?

[Risil]

That was my first thought as well, but they just signed a new agreement with Renault for 2014 and beyond.

 

Wonder if there are performance clauses in there? 

[Risil]

Not sure how impressive that will look in the sales presentation.

Are they still British owned?

 

Owned by Kalkhoven and Forsythe of Champ Car World Series fame. Very much a British company though, which at least in motor sports has to be a plus point.

[maverick69]

Not sure how impressive that will look in the sales presentation.
Are they still British owned?

It's more about promoting their EcoBoost downsizing program.

"From the most advanced racing series in the world to your regular drive" etc...... Even if the tech or company doing the dirty work is not directly applicable.

Hell. They're even trying to get the "good old boys" to run v6 turbos....... Although good luck with that...... They've only just (reluctantly) embraced fuel injection.

Edited by maverick69, 26 February 2014 - 20:57.

[Petroltorque]

There seems to be some light to all the heat generated. The FIA are probably going to give the green light to Haas. That would project will make more progress having a dedicated engine with arms length manufacturer support rather than paying through the nose for Maranello motive power.

[garagetinkerer]

Maybe because Ford has the most wins of any engine manufacturer in F1 ever and Every Ford engine has being built by Cosworth.

http://en.wikipedia....ula_One_engines

That was true before Schumacher and Ferrari came together and quite magnificently so. Right now it is Ferrari, and what's more is that Renault is about to challenge it. I think it is still the single engine (DFV?) with the most wins, but i may be wrong. To think Ferrari's not won much since end of 2008, it makes it quite impressive.

 

Cossie has gone private again(correct me if i'm wrong), so it wouldn't add to Ford's tally i'm afraid.

Edited by garagetinkerer, 26 February 2014 - 19:59.

[Fastcake]

http://en.wikipedia....ula_One_engines

That was true before Schumacher and Ferrari came together and quite magnificently so. Right now it is Ferrari, and what's more is that Renault is about to challenge it. I think it is still the single engine (DFV?) with the most wins, but i may be wrong. To think Ferrari's not won much since end of 2008, it makes it quite impressive.

 

Cossie has gone private again(correct me if i'm wrong), so it wouldn't add to Ford's tally i'm afraid.

 

It would if Ford had their name on Cosworth's engines. Ford only actually owned Cosworth from 1998 to 2004, which ironically enough happened to be the least successful "Ford" engine period.

[KingTiger]

I don't see why anyone would sign with them, other than the useless teams at the back that care more about saving money than moving up the field. No way they'll ever be able to hang with the Mercedes or Renault. 

[study]

I don't see why anyone would sign with them, other than the useless teams at the back that care more about saving money than moving up the field. No way they'll ever be able to hang with the Mercedes or Renault. 

 

Why, they used to with Ford money.

 

I laugh at how people can be so dismissive.

[rosscamero]

Honda want to provide two teams next season. I presumed that 2nd team would be Caterham.

The only was Ford are coming back is if Force India are being sold to them or Haas takes them on but it would be a huge risk to put a new engine in a new team.

[garagetinkerer]

Why, they used to with Ford money.

 

I laugh at how people can be so dismissive.

I agree wholeheartedly. They have actually done a lot of clever stuff in past, and this is their ballpark engine specifications. People forget that Cosworth at one time made the highest revving engine V10 (at the time...) in F1 and i think it was reputedly also one of the most powerful, although the Jaguar that it was in wasn't much of a car.

Edited by garagetinkerer, 26 February 2014 - 20:55.

[onewingedangel]

If it's not Ford who else could it be?

 

Cosworth were developing the Inline-4 for VW initially, perhaps the long rumoured Red Bull-VW tie-up after the Renault issues.

 

Cosworth worked with Jaguar on the road-car side, and TATA have sponsored Narain Karthikeyen in F1. Perhaps they want to promote Jaguar's ability to produce their own engines as their road cars move away from the Ford engines they currently use.

[Maikel0230]

Could be interesting voor the Haas and Romanian bid I guess.

[BackmarkerUK]

When's the last time a cossie has been worth a darn? I remember hearing the v10s back in 2005. Those cossies sounded drastically worse than their rivals.

Good to have them back though.

While their recent partnerships with Virgin/Marussia, Lotus/Caterham, Williams and HRT didn't deliver much (aside from Nico Hulkenberg's pole at Brazil perhaps), Caterham's 2013 season after dropping Cosworth suggests it wasn't just the engine holding them back.

Last win with a Cosworth was Giancarlo Fisichella in the Jordan-Ford at the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix.

[EvilPhil II]

Williams... 

[DanardiF1]

Williams... 

 

won with a Renault engine...

[EvilPhil II]

I was referring to the team Ford are likely to partner 

[DanardiF1]

I was referring to the team Ford are likely to partner 

 

Ah... nah don't think so, they've only recently committed to the Mercedes deal... Haas seems like the one if they get an entry.

[SR388]

I was referring to the team Ford are likely to partner

That Merc they just got is a stud.

[muramasa]

Honda want to provide two teams next season. I presumed that 2nd team would be Caterham.
 

At PC of comeback announcement last spring, they said next year will be McLaren exclusive, and supplying to 2nd team is merely a possibility from 2016 and beyond but complete blank sheet. As far as I know they havent changed that initial stance since then.

[DanardiF1]

http://racer.com/ind...w-engine-design

 

There must something going on at Cosworth, because they're also putting forward their IndyCar engine intentions too... If they are trying to convince Ford those are two markets the Blue Oval could find some real value in, given their big push on the Ecoboost brand and technology.

[alfa1]

No way they'll ever be able to hang with the Mercedes or Renault. 

Part (but not all) of the "Mercedes or Renault" engines have to homologated and locked in place tomorrow.

Cosworth (and Honda) are not in F1 right now, so can continue to learn and develop all year.

Because these new engines are a steep learning curve for all involved, that extra year will be very very helpful.

[loki]

Ganassi has Chevrolets in NASCAR and IndyCar and Ford EcoBoosts in TUSCC. Penske races Chevrolet engines in IndyCar and Fords in NASCAR. So there's precedent.

Tony Stewart has huge connections to GM.  As I said in another thread the only way it works is if Haas sells his share to Smoke.

 

Ford in F1?  Don't see that happening. Too expensive and they could better spend their money on other marketing platforms.  F1 is a pretty poor return on investment and I don't see the shareholders being pleased with what it would take to fund a factory F1 effort.