31 replies to this topic

[DanishPastry]

Can anyone see RB and indeed other teams jumping on the Honda ship? 

[slmk]

I thought McLaren had exclusivity for a few years?

 

And McLaren can definitely veto...

[Szoelloe]

No. Mc is exclusive. Why would RB leave Renault?

[rmpugh]

No. Mc is exclusive. Why would RB leave Renault?

Is that sarcasm

[Deluxx]

Unless Renault specifically does something to cause RB more than a few losses...

 

It'll take alot to leave behind countless constructors and championship titles behind.

 

For all we know, Renault could be running R&D for 2015...

[DanishPastry]

I thought McLaren had exclusivity for a few years?

 

And McLaren can definitely veto...

 

Honda are very stupid if they signed a deal like that. Its McLaren that needs Honda not the other way round. I am sure in light of whats happening to RB Honda must be kicking themselves seeing RB would have been an option too. Further more to only have 1 team as your customer is just plan dumb especially when you need data from other cars. Then again nothing surprises me with Honda and their stupidity. 

[Rinehart]

Honda are very stupid <bla bla bla > Honda and their stupidity. 

By your logic nobody else would be so stupid as to want the stupid engines from those stupid people. So its not a problem. Stupid. 

[rmpugh]

Honda are very stupid if they signed a deal like that. Its McLaren that needs Honda not the other way round. I am sure in light of whats happening to RB Honda must be kicking themselves seeing RB would have been an option too. Further more to only have 1 team as your customer is just plan dumb especially when you need data from other cars. Then again nothing surprises me with Honda and their stupidity. 

 

According to Whitmarsh when the deal was signed, they will get exclusive engine supply for 2015, but others may join "in due course"

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107571

[Szoelloe]

you guys are thinking like obsessive fans, they don't think like you. They think that if they veto now they will get vetoed down the road when they have a problem.

 

 

Is that sarcasm

You see, this is the problem. It is not sarcasm. Red Bull has won 4 Championships with Renault, and on the third week of pre season testing when things are not going to plan, you feel that RB will/should abandon ship and jump to greener fields, yes? A team that openly calls itself the Renault works team? Not to speak of the fact that RB is to some extent t to blame for Renault's prestent woes? LOL?

 

Honda are very stupid if they signed a deal like that. Its McLaren that needs Honda not the other way round. I am sure in light of whats happening to RB Honda must be kicking themselves seeing RB would have been an option too. Further more to only have 1 team as your customer is just plan dumb especially when you need data from other cars. Then again nothing surprises me with Honda and their stupidity. 

 

 

I do think that according to your logic they are stupid then. 

[l8apex]

According to Whitmarsh when the deal was signed, they will get exclusive engine supply for 2015, but others may join "in due course"

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107571

 

This.  I'm pretty sure they have a 1 year exclusive contract.

 

We will see more Honda powered teams in 2016.  I'm not so sure that we will see a Red Bull Honda if McLaren have any say in it however.

[Massa_f1]

No. Mc is exclusive. Why would RB leave Renault?

 

Why? Their engine is about to be frozen at a disadvantage. Yes past success was wonderful, but they want to challenge for a championship again a change will be needed as Renault looks like it won't be the engine to win with.

 

I can see both Red Bull teams leaving Renault, and who knows what will happen to Caterham. They may not even be on the grid in 2015 anyway. That leaves Lotus who have maybe somewhat foolishly signed a new multi year deal with them.

[Owen]

I thought McLaren had exclusivity for a few years?

 

And McLaren can definitely veto...

Exclusivity for one year (as others have pointed out). The Honda base is in Milton Keynes which would suit RBR. But McLaren are the only team with 'works' backing from Honda.

[DanishPastry]

By your logic nobody else would be so stupid as to want the stupid engines from those stupid people. So its not a problem. Stupid. 

 

No my logic is sound - giving a 5 year exclusive engine deal and the right to veto who can get the engine is stupid. If you cant see that then it's clear who the stupid one is    But has pointed out its only a 1 year exclusive deal, Now that makes sense. 

[DanishPastry]

Exclusivity for one year (as others have pointed out). The Honda base is in Milton Keynes which would suit RBR. But McLaren are the only team with 'works' backing from Honda.

 

Then It's looking more likely Honda /RBR 2016. DId they not team up in MotoGP? Honda supplying RBR and McLaren would be the ultimate PR dream for them. I'd go as far as to say if they had a choice between the two  RBR would come out on top (forget the past glories) - RB/Honda even sounds better ;)

[muramasa]

Honda are very stupid if they signed a deal like that. Its McLaren that needs Honda not the other way round. I am sure in light of whats happening to RB Honda must be kicking themselves seeing RB would have been an option too. Further more to only have 1 team as your customer is just plan dumb especially when you need data from other cars. Then again nothing surprises me with Honda and their stupidity. 

not really. Honda and Mclaren need each other. Honda arent in a position to run an F1 team by themselves for longer term, so they do need reliable, competitive and high status partner. That's essential for them. Also in current F1, "provide any teams" Renault have taken isnt working so effectively public-perception wise. Renault (engine) used to be cool and had own unique exclusivity image, but since they left Enstone and hid behind RBR and became pure engine manufacturer providing many teams, that exclusivity gone while Merc and Ferrari manage to keep it. Honda should learn from that and make it very clear what team is their team, home team. Switching teams often has worked in 80s but maybe not in modern F1. They are stupid not to think about and pursue synergy between a competitive, legendary racing team that is also a highend roadcar brand like McLaren.

[oetzi]

Are Honda allowed to only supply one team, even for a year? I thought that was against the rules.

[HoldenRT]

Pretty sure they'd want to wait a race or two, to at least access what they have................................

[onemoresolo]

Are Honda allowed to only supply one team, even for a year? I thought that was against the rules.

Cosworth only supplied Marussia last season so I guess that rule fell by the wayside, if it existed. I think there was a limit to the maximum number of teams one engine manufacturer could supply but I don't think there was a minimum.

 

I seem to a recall there was a limit to how much engines could cost a team which is why there was rarely a one-team engine as it wasn't cost-effective, but I might be confused.

[Gorma]

Why? Their engine is about to be frozen at a disadvantage. Yes past success was wonderful, but they want to challenge for a championship again a change will be needed as Renault looks like it won't be the engine to win with.

 

I can see both Red Bull teams leaving Renault, and who knows what will happen to Caterham. They may not even be on the grid in 2015 anyway. That leaves Lotus who have maybe somewhat foolishly signed a new multi year deal with them.

Well Renault will have a year to fix the problems. 

[S3baman]

This.  I'm pretty sure they have a 1 year exclusive contract.

 

We will see more Honda powered teams in 2016.  I'm not so sure that we will see a Red Bull Honda if McLaren have any say in it however.

 

It'll be interesting to see though. Haas has a Ferrari contract, that's if the FIA accepts their bid, and Cosworth is also planning to come back next year. That won't leave many teams open to an engine change.

[S3baman]

Cosworth only supplied Marussia last season so I guess that rule fell by the wayside, if it existed. I think there was a limit to the maximum number of teams one engine manufacturer could supply but I don't think there was a minimum.

 

I seem to a recall there was a limit to how much engines could cost a team which is why there was rarely a one-team engine as it wasn't cost-effective, but I might be confused.

 

An engine manufacturer can only supply 3 customer teams if they also have a factory team (the case of Merc and Ferrari) or 4 customer teams if they're only an engine provider. As for the engine cost, I think it was something around a few million per engine, but I don't recall the exact number.

[mclarennut]

Honda are very stupid if they signed a deal like that. Its McLaren that needs Honda not the other way round. I am sure in light of whats happening to RB Honda must be kicking themselves seeing RB would have been an option too. Further more to only have 1 team as your customer is just plan dumb especially when you need data from other cars. Then again nothing surprises me with Honda and their stupidity. 

 

That stupid 65.05bn company don't know nothing..... 

Edited by mclarennut, 28 February 2014 - 15:06.

[kraduk]

Exclusivity for one year (as others have pointed out). The Honda base is in Milton Keynes which would suit RBR. But McLaren are the only team with 'works' backing from Honda.

]incorrect the base is back in japan, they have just opened a facility here though, but it is mainly for build and maintenance, the brain power will still back in japan

[Fatgadget]

Ummm....It's a given that the forthcoming Honda PSU will be an  instant success for 'every' team to be clamouring for it  I take it? 

[Fastcake]

Why? Their engine is about to be frozen at a disadvantage. Yes past success was wonderful, but they want to challenge for a championship again a change will be needed as Renault looks like it won't be the engine to win with.

 

I can see both Red Bull teams leaving Renault, and who knows what will happen to Caterham. They may not even be on the grid in 2015 anyway. That leaves Lotus who have maybe somewhat foolishly signed a new multi year deal with them.

 

Or Lotus will end up regaining a full works relationship, just as Renault have improved their engine and can challenge the other manufacturers. Which would leave them looking rather clever compared to Red Bull who would of be running around looking for a new engine after just one poor year.

 

Honda most likely wants another team or two, but these will most likely be customer teams in the midfield. I very much doubt Honda will wish to have two works teams. According to many reports they are already providing substantial support to McLaren, doing the same with Red Bull will be prohibitively expensive.

Edited by Fastcake, 28 February 2014 - 18:16.

[Rinehart]

No my logic is sound - giving a 5 year exclusive engine deal and the right to veto who can get the engine is stupid. If you cant see that then it's clear who the stupid one is    But has pointed out its only a 1 year exclusive deal, Now that makes sense. 

I already knew the terms of the deal, unlike you.

[KingTiger]

Honda will probably have the same problems and more next year. There is absolutely no guarantee that their engine will be any good. 

 

On the other hand, Renault will have racked up countless miles over the course of the season and will have eventually fixed their problems - especially if Red Bull actually include some cooling capacity in their car.

[dau]

Is that sarcasm

No, really, why would they? Why would anyone change a Renault engine, which will have run a full season at that point and which can be developed further for 2015, for a completely unproven product coming from a company whose last F1 engines were rumoured to be the heaviest and least powerful units on the entire grid and who never even ran a KERS in an actual race, never mind a complex ERS like the 2014+ engine regulations demand?

Edited by dau, 28 February 2014 - 18:11.

[darkkis]

Why? Their engine is about to be frozen at a disadvantage. Yes past success was wonderful, but they want to challenge for a championship again a change will be needed as Renault looks like it won't be the engine to win with.

 

I can see both Red Bull teams leaving Renault, and who knows what will happen to Caterham. They may not even be on the grid in 2015 anyway. That leaves Lotus who have maybe somewhat foolishly signed a new multi year deal with them.

Yeah because one bad year negates all the WCC:s they've gained together? It's not like the engine development is frozen in winter season...

[Clatter]

Are Honda allowed to only supply one team, even for a year? I thought that was against the rules.

I don't think there has ever been a rule regarding how many teams a manufacturer has to supply. It was only tyres that had such a rule.

[Brother Fox]

This thread makes me sad

[skyfolker]

RB has Infiniti sponsorship deal until 2016,how can anyone imagine they could swap engine supplier for 2015 and still have Infiniti as title sponsor is beyond me(unless they prematurely terminate that deal,but then they would have to look for those 40 million per year elsewhere,not to mention that it's highly unlikely that Renault will flop with engine 2 years in a row,and other stuff that goes with changing engine,especially if it's unproven).