78 replies to this topic

[whitewaterMkII]

The tyre barriers on that corner are not contained by a conveyor belt.

 

 

That corner may be good enough for Indycars lower safety standards but it isn't for F1.

Ridiculous.

Throw a belt on it and it would just fine? Indycars are much heavier than an F1 car, and it seems to be fine for them.

The cars are creeping through there, but then you would know that if you had ever been there.

[johnmhinds]

Ridiculous.

Throw a belt on it and it would just fine? Indycars are much heavier than an F1 car, and it seems to be fine for them.

The cars are creeping through there, but then you would know that if you had ever been there.

 

The speed is irrelevant, a flowerbed and loose tyres lining the circuit aren't going to be acceptable on an FIA approved street circuit.

 

The track safety would have to have an overhaul for F1 to race there, and I doubt the Long Beach promoters have the kind of money or motivation needed to do that.

[whitewaterMkII]

 

The speed is irrelevant, a flowerbed and loose tyres lining the circuit aren't going to be acceptable on an FIA approved street circuit.

 

The track safety would have to have an overhaul for F1 to race there, and I doubt the Long Beach promoters have the kind of money or motivation needed to do that.

As someone explained earlier, but you missed evidently, the tires are NOT loose. They are nicely bundled and bound with shipping bands. the worst I've seen from them getting hit, and I've seen them get hit by everyone from Nelson Piquet to Ted Nugent is that after some rain they fill with water and when they get pounded the water inevitably soaks the morons standing right up against the fence. In fact the whole course is neatly strapped together and packaged so as they can store it year to year.

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 03 March 2014 - 21:41.

[PayasYouRace]

Why are you all talking as if it would be some sort of almost impossible bit of work to put a strip of barrier round that roundabout and a belt round the tyre barrier? It would be a total non-issue compared to things that would actually be a problem bringing F1 to LB.

[Atreiu]

Not holding my breath...

And they should have stuck with the shorter layout from the early 90s.

[loki]

The speed is irrelevant, a flowerbed and loose tyres lining the circuit aren't going to be acceptable on an FIA approved street circuit.

The track safety would have to have an overhaul for F1 to race there, and I doubt the Long Beach promoters have the kind of money or motivation needed to do that.

The tires aren't loose. As stated prior they are joined vertically and in some places are constrained to each other and/or a barrier. You don't appear to be familiar with how those barriers work. Regardless, those barriers are a moot point as what will be used would be compliant with whatever regs are in force. Stating there wouldn't be a race because of the way another sanction uses barriers is a poorly formed opinion.

[loki]

Not holding my breath...
And they should have stuck with the shorter layout from the early 90s.

Indeed. I like the earlier circuits better as well. However, downtown experienced great growth, in part due to the race, and development in the area is what has driven the circuit changes.

[InSearchOfThe]

I don't get it, why should those two circuits be the sole candidates?

They're the only 2 in North America that can realisticlly host a modern GP event. Plus both circuits have GP history there.

Long Beach is an INDYCAR track period.

Road America would be cool, but not quite international enough for the Euros.

[mika911]

I don't see why so many think it is THAT far fetched (it's more likely not to happen I agree).  Bernie seems to want it. 

Bernie gave Southern California F1 rights or rights to work on it to Pook.  Pook is looking for a Southern California location and Long Beach seems to be their #1 candidate.  Bernie himself wrote the letter to Long Beach last year stating F1 would participate in the bidding process if possible.

 

If Pook won the rights from the city, it would be up to whatever new organization he founded to find a way to make the modifications, promote the race, pay the fee, etc.  While there is a sizable amount to be done, it's not to the level of building a circuit like COTA.  

 

The current organization running the Indycar race in Long Beach would be out of the picture.  The current organization is committed to Indycar.  The question is if the city is automatically going to let the current organization the Long Beach GP people have another five years automatically, or if they are going to "hear" the F1 bid from Pook and see which they prefer.  They are only deciding if they are going to hear bids, or automatically renew the current deal without even hearing the F1 idea. 

Edited by mika911, 04 March 2014 - 04:18.

[garagetinkerer]

Yeah, that's another good point - can't expect F1 drivers to cope with any difficulties on track. Track needs to be smooth and have a lot of tarmac run off.

In 2009 (Delhi, India) i was privileged enough to witness F1 cars in action. It was nice! The piece of road where the Renault Road-show happened was a 2 kilometers+ stretch. There are 3-4 intersections that dissect the road. There are undulations. If you're in a road car, you could feel the tarmac... it is not very flat, so to speak, especially where there are intersections. The cars were originally supposed to do about 280 Kmph. However, by the end of the show, the drivers were feeling quite comfortable and speeds in excess of 200 Mph were hit, 339 kmph to be exact. Now i've not been to Long Beach, so only so much weight can be given to what i have to say... but modern F1 cars, are very impressive pieces of kit. There are considerations, but mostly for safety. If safety is not a problem, layout isn't a problem.

 

In Delhi they were supposed to do a street circuit which i'd have much preferred, compared to this track several miles away from civilization. Only politicians who were concerned about their own discomfort muddied things up a bit, citing traffic problems and all. I hope there are no such problems, and if they decide on a street circuit, it goes through smoothly at Long Beach.

Edited by garagetinkerer, 04 March 2014 - 05:06.

[loki]

They're the only 2 in North America that can realisticlly host a modern GP event. Plus both circuits have GP history there.

Long Beach is an INDYCAR track period.

Road America would be cool, but not quite international enough for the Euros.

RA is a great circuit but would take 10s of millions, or more likely 100s of millions of dollars to upgrade it to F1 standards just in terms of spectator amenities and hospitality and media facilities.  The circuit in its present form would cease to exist as there would need to be many changes to become a circuit compatable with FIA regs.  Plus it's in the middle of nowhere. 

[PayasYouRace]

They're the only 2 in North America that can realisticlly host a modern GP event. Plus both circuits have GP history there.

Long Beach is an INDYCAR track period.

Road America would be cool, but not quite international enough for the Euros.

 

I know you mean that in the American way (where we would say "full stop") but to me it actually sums up the situation if the grammar is butchered. Long Beach is in an Indycar period. It was once a Formula 1 track, and it could be again.

[DinocoBlue]

There is still something about F1 that can surprise from time to time.

 

After Indy was dropped from the calendar you'd probably be laughed at if you suggested that there would be a prospect of not one, but two races within the decade. We had that rumour of Monticello, NY hosting the race was met with understandable scepticisim, and then out of the blue came the announcement of a done deal in Austin. Again this was met with understandable doubt. After all, this is deep in the heart of football country, hardly the first place you'd think to put an F1 track.

 

Now I'm not saying that its proof that Long Beach will happen, but rather when it comes to F1 (and Bernie) sometimes the unexpected can happen. Sometimes ideas come and go - remember Disneyland Paris? Met with the same doubts as adding a track around the Winter Olympics venues. Both as preposterous as the other, and yet, thanks to a shed load of cash, one of them did happen.

 

Port Imperial could still happen, and surely that would put paid to any notion of giving Long Beach a contract, but as it stands the probably have an equal chance of getting a race. I guess you could probably argue that they're both at similar stages in development. The Beach wouldn't have to do a great deal (if it had the funding) and from what I understand Jersey still needs to do plenty of work to complete its circuit.

[whitewaterMkII]

Strikes me as odd that BE has apparently aligned himself with Chris Pook, who IIRC was the guy that booted out F1 in favor of CART back in the day.

Maybe BE has grudging respect for a guy who once bested him. If BE is serious, he couldn't get a nicer, or more well connected guy than Pook as a rep.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Pook was running New Jersey GP wasn't he?

[InSearchOfThe]

I know you mean that in the American way (where we would say "full stop") but to me it actually sums up the situation if the grammar is butchered. Long Beach is in an Indycar period. It was once a Formula 1 track, and it could be again.

You say it one way we say it another.

Don't be angry because I fluffed your feathers in another thread...

 

Yes LB was once a GP track. So was Las Vegas, Detroit, Phoenix, and Dallas.

You guys are clammering to fix the bumps, fix the tirewalls, take out the fountain etc.all in the name to convert the present track to a modern one. For me the fountain and hairpin are what make LB good. Again, leave it an INDYCAR venue where it belongs and find another suitable circuit or let COTA stand alone.

Edited by InSearchOfThe, 04 March 2014 - 18:53.

[Fastcake]

I don't think anyone is advocating those changes. People have simply pointed out what will have to happen to hold an F1 race, wanted or otherwise.

[whitewaterMkII]

Pook was running New Jersey GP wasn't he?

I think so, but I don't believe he was hand in hand w/ BE on that deal

[PayasYouRace]

You say it one way we say it another.

Don't be angry because I fluffed your feathers in another thread...

 

Yes LB was once a GP track. So was Las Vegas, Detroit, Phoenix, and Dallas.

You guys are clammering to fix the bumps, fix the tirewalls, take out the fountain etc.all in the name to convert the present track to a modern one. For me the fountain and hairpin is what makes LB good. Again, leave it an INDYCAR venue where it belongs and find another suitable circuit or let COTA stand alone.

 

1. I was using the difference in meaning to segue into my point.

2. I have no idea what you mean. My feathers are unfluffed.

 

3. "You guys" is not me. The only suggestion I made was that it would be the work of a moment to belt up a tyre barrier and run some armco round the inside of the fountain turn. I'm certainly not clamouring for drastic changes (though I am surprised at some people's pride in poorly constructed road surfaces).

4. It brings me back to my original point. Your argument could be reversed if it was 1983. Leave it an F1 venue where it belongs and find a another suitable circuit for Indycar. It's a poor argument. Long Beach has a rich motorsport history with Indycar and F1 among others. It was a popular F1 venue, and it wouldn't be inappropriate for the race to "return home" so to speak.

[HaydenFan]

Pook was running New Jersey GP wasn't he?

 

And the former head of the LBGP. 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah, and CART...

 

I just meant he's been working 'with' Bernie lately.

[loki]

More press on from the Long Beach Press Telegram with quotes from Pook, LBGPA and a council member...

 

http://www.presstele...could-be-costly

 

Councilman Gary DeLong, the chairman of the Budget Oversight Committee, said, though, that any proposal could not deliver a tax bill to the city.

“We want the event to generate revenue, not expenses for the city,” said DeLong, who added that “the Grand Prix Association has done a good job for the city. We need to be very careful before moving to another race organizer.”

Currently, the city does not pay any costs associated with the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, now in its 40th year.

 

[alfa1]

A tweet that cites the Long Beach Press Telegram:

 

 

Brian Bielanski ‏@BrianRacingWire 1h

Long Beach City Council makes no decision on whether it should open up bidding for the Long Beach GP to F1.

Source: @presstelegram

 

[DinocoBlue]

That's a bit ambiguous then. Its not like they've voted it down wholesale, I guess they're keeping their options open.

[loki]

It appears there may have been some blow back from the locals about hosting F1.  If they stay with the ICS it's a sure thing, it will happen and it will keep happening as long as it is sustainable.  F1 isn't guaranteed.  That's a big gamble from an event that's been happening for the last several decades. 

 

 

Local sports writer's opinion about the race

http://www.presstele...t-of-long-beach

[InSearchOfThe]

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/150419.html

 

Not a boatload of cash needed, but 8 digits none the less. Too much to be feasible imo.

[Prost1997T]

 

Local sports writer's opinion about the race

http://www.presstele...t-of-long-beach

 

Key paragraphs:

 

New Jersey has been trying to get an F1 street race for three years and, with the costs of throwing an F1 race hovering around $100 million, the backers of the Jersey race estimate a price of $435 for a three-day pass to its race — for all ages. A three-day pass to the Long Beach race is $75, and free to kids under 12.

 

Here’s what the Long Beach race has brought to its host city: It’s the No. 1 street race in America; it brings 175,000 fans to Long Beach during the weekend. We get publicity via 600 credentialed media at the race, and 10 hours of national and international TV time. Its economic impact is reckoned at about $35 million a year for the city. And, perhaps most importantly, the Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, headed by Jim Michaelian, is virtually drama free, which is far from what you can say about Formula One.

 

“We have a very positive relationship with fans, sponsors, suppliers and the city,” maintains Michaelian. “We do everything we say we’re going to do every year. We pay back every dime in expenses to the city. We don’t ask for anything from the city other than to keep doing what we’re doing.”

 

 

Add to that the polar opposite nature of the F1\Indycar support races and paddocks, it's pretty clear which is the better deal for the existing attendees.

[August]

So looking at the two articles above, seems like the profit from a race is:

 

F1: Austin: $4.9M, Texas: $17.2M

IndyCar: City of Long Beach: $35M

 

Btw, considering you need to pay tens of millions to FOM for hosting a race, how much do you need to pay for hosting an IndyCar race?

[Option1]

Two different articles = two different made up figures.

 

Neil