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Hamilton: "Maybe Felipe Massa will take the Williams to the front!"


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#1 luispaulob

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 13:22

No one in the paddock doubts that Mercedes is significantly ahead of the game as the 2014 season opener looms.

But when told he is an absolute favourite, works driver Lewis Hamilton clearly does not want the label to stick, furrowing his brow as he answered: "Why do you believe that?"

At the very least, the Briton admits the German squad has produced the very best new V6 engine, compared to rival suppliers Ferrari and troubled Renault.

"You have Williams, who look like they could be a competitive team, and you have Force India who could be much further ahead. Maybe Felipe Massa will take the Williams to the front!" Hamilton is quoted by F1's official website.
 

 

http://www.auto123.c...te?artid=165168



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#2 Bartonz20let

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 13:36

Thanks for that but is there anything you'd like to discuss about the article? 



#3 P123

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 13:40

Big article covering the predicted order...... what are we meant to be discussing from it?  A one line Hamilton quote?



#4 luispaulob

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 13:49

Big article covering the predicted order...... what are we meant to be discussing from it?  A one line Hamilton quote?

Well, sorry about that..   :well:

 

What I meant was that the top drivers seem to believe in Massa's potential yet, even though these last few years were terrible for him.. 

 

Not only Hamilton but Alonso and Vettel think that Massa will be a strong contender this year.

 

I'm not so certain, last few years really damaged his image and I'm not sure he can repeat his 2007/2008 performances 



#5 Okyo

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:03

Well, sorry about that..   :well:

 

What I meant was that the top drivers seem to believe in Massa's potential yet, even though these last few years were terrible for him.. 

 

Not only Hamilton but Alonso and Vettel think that Massa will be a strong contender this year.

 

I'm not so certain, last few years really damaged his image and I'm not sure he can repeat his 2007/2008 performances 

He has shown that he can be brilliant when he has the car and the team behind him, even outperforming those that we didn't expect *cough* Kimi *cough*. Would put him in the same category as Vettel and Button [flame much?], though Felipe seems to lose motivation when he sees him being outperformed (would explain why he's rather noticably better at the second part of the season when he's racing for a new contract, which is a cause for motivation). It's what he lacks compared to the two WDC's i've just mentioned and that' probably the reason why Massa isn't usually considered to be in that group.


Edited by Okyo, 08 March 2014 - 09:45.


#6 Nemo1965

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:08

He has shown that he can be brilliant when he has the car and the team behind him. Would put him in the same category as Vettel and Button [flame much?], though Felipe seems to lose motivation when he sees him being outperformed (would explain why he's rather noticably better at the second part of the season when he's racing for a new contract, which is a cause for motivation). It's what he lacks compared to the two WDC's i've just mentioned and that' probably the reason why Massa isn't usually considered to be in that group. Would hope Vettel to prove me wrong if he gets a good, but not brilliant car, since he seemed to struggle those very few moments when the RedBull wasn't up to speed (2012 first half). Never really understood why Seb was ever comparable to let's say Fernando or Lewis, who have shown that they can go around car problems, which is the very difference between a good driver and the best of them. So far, he's written in history as the champ who drove Adrian Newey's dominant rocket ship. 

 

On top of the idea that Massa is just a notch behind Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and the likes, I think he has not been the same since he had his accident AND his loss in that infamous last corner-loss in Brazil in 2008. I thought the pictures with the new Martini-suit were telling. Those eyes have lost the light...



#7 discover23

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:14

Well, sorry about that..   :well:

 

What I meant was that the top drivers seem to believe in Massa's potential yet, even though these last few years were terrible for him.. 

Because people in the paddock know very well that a top car is what gets your wins/podiums on average.  All F1 drivers are good.. some are only a fraction of a second slower than the top guns and less consistent, but that small difference in lap time is no detriment to any driver if they happen to drive the fastest car and the competition is not at their same level of performance. 


Edited by discover23, 07 March 2014 - 14:15.


#8 Okyo

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:18

On top of the idea that Massa is just a notch behind Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and the likes, I think he has not been the same since he had his accident AND his loss in that infamous last corner-loss in Brazil in 2008. I thought the pictures with the new Martini-suit were telling. Those eyes have lost the light...

Or just bad posing and bad play by the photographer. After all, these are racers, not models  :)  If anything, he seem's a lot more happier now. He had so so many hard moments in Ferrari, though a lot of good ones too. So much pressure, constantly against the best team mates of his generation, that come in  as champions and seen as the No 1 even before the first race. Of all the drivers on the grid, i'd say he needed a change the most. And am happy he went to my beloved team. Forget the 2008, 2009, the 2011 Germany, it's time for a restart.
 

Quick catch up with @MassaFelipe19. The man can’t hide his smile. He knows this could be the start of something unexpectedly amazing.

 


Edited by Okyo, 07 March 2014 - 14:21.


#9 Jovanotti

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:21

One thing's for sure: if Williams should indeed return to former glory, it will have little to do with Massa's presence.

Edited by Jovanotti, 07 March 2014 - 14:22.


#10 Nemo1965

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 14:39

Or just bad posing and bad play by the photographer. After all, these are racers, not models  :)  If anything, he seem's a lot more happier now. He had so so many hard moments in Ferrari, though a lot of good ones too. So much pressure, constantly against the best team mates of his generation, that come in  as champions and seen as the No 1 even before the first race. Of all the drivers on the grid, i'd say he needed a change the most. And am happy he went to my beloved team. Forget the 2008, 2009, the 2011 Germany, it's time for a restart.
 

Quick catch up with @MassaFelipe19. The man can’t hide his smile. He knows this could be the start of something unexpectedly amazing.

 

 

Ofcourse I should not judge anything about Massa based on pictures, or on te aforementoned picture. I just have the feeling that the accident & Ferrari (and & Hamilton 2008 without intention) have... well... undermined him? Take the oomph out of him? I would be thrilled to be proven wrong...


Edited by Nemo1965, 07 March 2014 - 14:40.


#11 P123

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:03

 

I'm not so certain, last few years really damaged his image and I'm not sure he can repeat his 2007/2008 performances 

 

True, remains to be seen if he can regain some of his lost form.  His performances against Bottas may tell us as much, especially if he is regularly beaten by him (I'd expecta 'prime' Massa to be right there with Bottas).  Mass himself seems quite optomistic about the season ahead.



#12 darkkis

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:34

Nice downplaying from Hamilton.



#13 Maustinsj

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:38

...i dear say only...

 

I dare say that you have spelt that incorrectly  :p



#14 Okyo

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 15:55

I dare say that you have spelt that incorrectly  :p

I dare say you are correct  :lol:



#15 Jon83

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 16:22

I'm sure many people would be happy to see Williams back fighting at the front. Somebody needs to take the fight to this amazing Mercedes car which has had the 2014 championship won for about two years now in the minds of many!

 

Good luck to them.



#16 Andrew Hope

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 18:19

Given the choice I'd rather see a new team get their first glory than a formerly-great team get one more trophy, but either way I've got more faith in Bottas than Massa.



#17 Fonzey

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 18:43

I really don't think Hamilton likes about people talking about his success before he achieves it... Hamilton is the kind of guy who can go out, not quite achieve what the PRESS said he would achieve - then gets bad press for his "over confidence".

 

Because of that, his number one response to any scenario is to downplay his chances - hoping the media will catch on.

 

Quote had nothing really to do with Massa, he's just trying to deflect some of the hype that is getting piled onto his shoulders.



#18 noikeee

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 18:59

Lewis being nice to a guy he fought a title against, and who's just lucked into a good car by chance. Total non-story IMO apart from the fact we have here yet another voice saying Williams are for real.



#19 FrAnC1s96

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 19:08

TBH I think this is probably make or break for Massas career, as I think if he is beaten by his relatively inexperienced teammate then Williams would prefer to have Nasr as he is well backed as well, and can well prepare him for the future, as Massa is getting quite old now, as long as Nasr can finally win a race in GP2 of course.

Edited by FrAnC1s96, 07 March 2014 - 19:10.


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#20 aditya-now

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 19:57

Or just bad posing and bad play by the photographer. After all, these are racers, not models  :)  If anything, he seem's a lot more happier now. He had so so many hard moments in Ferrari, though a lot of good ones too. So much pressure, constantly against the best team mates of his generation, that come in  as champions and seen as the No 1 even before the first race.....

 

 

 

Massa drove against teammates Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso. Not a bad collection, I must say. It was Alonso (and possibly circumstances) that have cracked Felipe.

 

Concerning Lewis: he seems to deflect his role of being a favorite this season very nicely. First he says, that Red Bull will be still champions this year, then he talks about Massa bringing back Williams to the top.

 

Let's better not talk about him and Mercedes.

 

Plus: he will have a hard year against Rosberg. Contrary to Johnny Herbert I think that Nico will beat Lewis.


Edited by aditya-now, 07 March 2014 - 19:58.


#21 sennafan24

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:20

Lets bring this show back on-topic then!

 

We will find out this year if Massa was made to look bad by Alonso. or if he is totally shopworn. I think it is more of a case of can Williams bring Massa back to the top, rather than the other way round.

 

Okyo - No problem, man welcome to the forum :up:. It was not my research by the way, it was done by someone else on here. I forget who.


Edited by sennafan24, 07 March 2014 - 21:22.


#22 Okyo

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:24

Felipe does seem to be motivated.

Q: Obviously losing a drive with Ferrari is never usually a good thing, but now looking at where you are - in a team with which you’re happy - does it feel like a positive rather than a negative?
FM:
 Yeah, I feel good. It was the right time to change. Everything is new for everybody. Everybody starts from zero so I think it’s the right time to change. I think I needed this change. I think it gives me a new challenge, to start again with new people. It gives you some extra motivation.



#23 P123

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 21:26

Lets bring this show back on-topic then!
 
We will find out this year if Massa was made to look bad by Alonso. or if he is totally shopworn. I think it is more of a case of can Williams bring Massa back to the top, rather than the other way round.


...... although the context has been a bit lost due to the topic title. The insinuation from the Hamilton quote was that maybe Massa would be victorious due to the Williams being competitive, not that Massa would single handed drag Williams from the depths to the front of the grid!

#24 Otaku

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 00:42

Massa has always been and will always be a mediocre F1 driver.



#25 sennafan24

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 00:54

Massa has always been and will always be a mediocre F1 driver.

You might be right.

 

But there is reasonable doubt. Before he was paired with Alonso, Massa out-scored Kimi over 2 and a half seasons.

 

If Bottas blows him away, you might have a point, but until then I am going to wait and see.



#26 HeadFirst

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 01:56

You might be right.

 

But there is reasonable doubt. Before he was paired with Alonso, Massa out-scored Kimi over 2 and a half seasons.

 

If Bottas blows him away, you might have a point, but until then I am going to wait and see.

And Button outscored Hamilton over three ... so what?



#27 sennafan24

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:00

And Button outscored Hamilton over three ... so what?

Would you say Button is a mediocre driver, like the poster above said Massa was? Just suggesting that maybe it would take more than a mediocre driver to outscore a driver the caliber of Kimi over 2 seasons.



#28 HeadFirst

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:24

Would you say Button is a mediocre driver, like the poster above said Massa was? Just suggesting that maybe it would take more than a mediocre driver to outscore a driver the caliber of Kimi over 2 seasons.

What I am saying is that there can be extenuating circumstances. For example Hamilton had a sub-par year in 2011 due to his off-track problems (my opinion), and as a result was significantly outscored by Button that season. In other stats Lewis clearly dominated Button over the 3 years and I doubt if anyone would make the claim that he was not the better driver. Despite the fact that Massa outscored Kimi over their time at Ferrari, there were significant politics involved. I don't think Felipe is anywhere near the level of the Finn. Does that make he and Button mediocre? I see both in the middle group today, so I suppose I do. 



#29 sennafan24

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:40

Despite the fact that Massa outscored Kimi over their time at Ferrari, there were significant politics involved. I don't think Felipe is anywhere near the level of the Finn. Does that make he and Button mediocre? I see both in the middle group today, so I suppose I do. 

Fair play, I disagree about Button and maybe Massa. But, I do respect that you are not sitting on the fence and giving clear and concise opinions  :up:

 

I am not a expert on the Kimi/Ferrari situation if I am totally honest, I do know there is one significant difference between Massa vs Kimi, and Lewis vs Jenson. On the road one partnership was seemingly closer in pace than the other. Lewis beat Jenson 23-13 in races ahead when both finished, whereas Massa beat Kimi 16-14 when both finished.

 

Now if you think that the "significant politics" were the reason Massa had slightly better overall pace, then there is nothing else to be said on the matter for now. I might end up looking back and agreeing if things work out a certain way. If Bottas shows up Massa this year, I might end up agreeing in general. Kimi was bossing Massa until 2008 when the "politics" were speculated to begin, and has bossed other teammates like JPM, Romain and D.C.

 

Another thing to look for is how close Kimi is to Alonso, that could tell us a lot as well.

 

For now though I am not sure if Massa is indeed mediocre, I need to see a bit more of him against someone not named Alonso to form a opinion I would be comfortable in committing to. 


Edited by sennafan24, 08 March 2014 - 02:42.


#30 slideways

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:48

Cynicism: Hamilton stands to gain from an improved perception of Massa.



#31 AlexS

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:53

I don't think Massa is mediocre by what he already shown, but he doesn't have the urge to win and be the best. So he can be indeed mediocre but also can be great it just depends on the day and time of the day even.



#32 stanga

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:57

Massa drove against teammates Jacques Villeneuve, Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso. Not a bad collection, I must say. It was Alonso (and possibly circumstances) that have cracked Felipe.
 
Concerning Lewis: he seems to deflect his role of being a favorite this season very nicely. First he says, that Red Bull will be still champions this year, then he talks about Massa bringing back Williams to the top.
 
Let's better not talk about him and Mercedes.
 
Plus: he will have a hard year against Rosberg. Contrary to Johnny Herbert I think that Nico will beat Lewis.


You probably said the same last year. Nico had a better opportunity last year to beat Lewis, if you ask me.

I'd like a repeat of Lewis vs Felipe. Would be a nice surprise and one not people could have predicted.

#33 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:35

I used to think Felipe was more than mediocre, but his crash has definitely changed something. His opening 2009 was very good after his 2008 disappointment. Regardless, after he blatantly drove into Hamilton at Fuji all those years ago, I get an uneasy feeling whenever I think about him.

#34 Jimisgod

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 05:41

Well I had a dream where Ferrari were 1-2 at Barcelona followed by Bottas.

Maybe my subconscious doesn't like Massa?

#35 baddog

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:41

Maybe he can get his head back together there, but barrichello was a disaster so who knows.



#36 RC127

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:48

I personally think the championship will be a three-way fight between Hamilton, Rosberg and Button, but it would be awesome and a little bit hilarious if Massa were to leave Ferrari and be involved in a championship fight all the way to Abu Dhabi and - dare I say it - win a WDC at WILLIAMS, of all places!



#37 Tommay

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:49

In my opinion the Pirellis have had more to do with Massa downfall then his accident. You only need to see him in the wet to see how appalling he is in changeable conditions, something the Pirellis do every lap....

#38 garoidb

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:55

Pat Symonds is the guy who will take Williams to the front (IMO).



#39 Vesuvius

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:00

Pat Symonds is the guy who will take Williams to the front (IMO).

and the rest of the team...new technicians that were hired from other teams,drivers and everyone who work in the team.



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#40 Vesuvius

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:01

In my opinion the Pirellis have had more to do with Massa downfall then his accident. You only need to see him in the wet to see how appalling he is in changeable conditions, something the Pirellis do every lap....

Pirellis has indeed been a weak point for Felipe but he wasnt that great 2010 with bridgestones either (those tyres were already too hard for his liking)



#41 kosmos

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:02

In my opinion the Pirellis have had more to do with Massa downfall then his accident. You only need to see him in the wet to see how appalling he is in changeable conditions, something the Pirellis do every lap....

 

The accident was never an issue, only an excuse that Alonso haters used.



#42 motorhead

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:09

You might be right.

 

But there is reasonable doubt. Before he was paired with Alonso, Massa out-scored Kimi over 2 and a half seasons.

 

If Bottas blows him away, you might have a point, but until then I am going to wait and see.

 

Excuse me but how did Massa outscore Kimi 2 and a half seasons out of 3? Just remembering 2007...



#43 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:15

Hamilton might be right. Williams are looking good indeed and I expect Massa to have the better of Bottas. And Bahrain, Spain and Monaco are tracks where Massa usually excels, these tracks are early in the season so there's chances for a win there.



#44 Lazy

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:24

The accident was never an issue, only an excuse that Alonso haters used.

How could you possibly know that? A bit a metal in the brain can affect you in a number of ways.



#45 spacekid

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:48

Far too much gets read into a single line quote from the drivers. Did the OP really read this as Lewis tipping Massa to take Williams to the front of the grid? Really?

It reads to me petty much like a throw away comment, probably to deflect from the hype of Mercy being the title favourites this year.

I'm a team Willy fan and would love to see them return to the fray after so many awful years. I think their driver line up will be interesting, with Massa providing a pretty good benchmark for young Bottas. But I also think this is a silly thread.

#46 garoidb

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:09

Excuse me but how did Massa outscore Kimi 2 and a half seasons out of 3? Just remembering 2007...

 

They only drove together for 2 and a half seasons. 



#47 FullThrottleF1

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:10

Can Williams REALLY challenge Mercedes?

#48 garoidb

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:17

and the rest of the team...new technicians that were hired from other teams,drivers and everyone who work in the team.

 

Yes, of course. But who can have the most impact?



#49 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:49

How could you possibly know that? A bit a metal in the brain can affect you in a number of ways.

He didn't have a piece of metal in his brain. If the spring had penetrated his brain, he wouldn't have had an eye left.

Edited by Tsarwash, 08 March 2014 - 12:49.


#50 kosmos

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 12:54

How could you possibly know that? A bit a metal in the brain can affect you in a number of ways.

 

 

I don't know, ask Felipe, he is the one saying that he is fine, he feels fine, doctors say he is fine, His performance in the first races of 2010 tells you the true story, he was fine and he is fine, you are free to believe what you want. If Felipe had any problem was with the car, the tyres and with Alonso beating him.