205 replies to this topic

[F.M.]

Horner If they were to finish two laps ahead of the opposition in Melbourne, that wouldn't be a surprise, based on what we've seen in pre-season testing. It's massive.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/148401.html

Chances are small they will, 'cause even if they have such an advantage, they'll take it a bit easier to make sure the cars make it home. And as Horner also says, the other Merc teams seem in decent shape as well.

But how'd you feel about this season if Mercedes (and it's customers) have such an advantage over the Renault and Ferrari teams that they can just leave them way behind every race (at least during the first part of the season)?

[Jamiednm]

It's just mind games, putting pressure on Mercedes to perform to cover their own shortcomings. They won't win by 2 laps, even if they could - as Horner admitted.

[meister]

But how'd you feel about this season if Mercedes (and it's customers) have such an advantage over the Renault and Ferrari teams that they can just leave them way behind every race (at least during the first part of the season)?

 

Sort of how everyone but Redbull fans felt for the majority of the last 4 years? Tough luck.

[Cyanide]

They might lap the Renault cars, but I doubt they'll be that much faster than Ferrari, 

 

And even if they are, I'm sure others will catch up.

[David Lightman]

Oh shut up Horner you tart.

[GlenP]

I think Horner might be speaking a little self-centredly there. Merc may well lap RBR twice, but they won't be lapping Williams, for example. It that sense he could have said that Williams would be beating RBR by two laps - but he has gotten a bit too used to being top team. A wake up call like this is overdue.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't think testing has shown that Mercedes could win by two laps. I'm sure McLaren, Williams and Force India will be closer than that. Then there's the Ferrari powered teams.

 

It'll hardly be the end of the world if Red Bull get lapped twice though.

[apoka]

Sort of how everyone but Redbull fans felt for the majority of the last 4 years? Tough luck.

 

 They sure had their dominating races, but most were about making the most out of small advantages.

 

As for the quote: I think it is a combination of keeping expectations down, mind games and Merc actually having a decent advantage.

[Lights]

After reading what Horner said, I want Red Bull to fail more. 

[Slackbladder]

Such mind games from Horner....

 

I expect the only focus on nearly all the cars and drivers will be to get them over the finish line. If you happen to be in the lead, then you're going to just manage that lead, if you can.

 

At most they'll do a Red Bull, get 8-12 seconds in front, and then manage that lead..

[Ferrari2183]

Think about this... If an average lap is 90 seconds and an average Grand Prix is 60 laps you would have to be 3 seconds a lap quicker than anybody else to lap the field twice.

There is no way in hell the Mercedes power unit is that much more efficient than the rest.

[Rinehart]

Oh shut up Horner you tart.

Yup, for Mercedes to win by 2 laps they'd need a 3 second per lap advantage over the next best car, which will possibly also have a Merc PU. This is notwithstanding the fact that a car with any advantage whatsoever is going to be reticent to use much of it, due to the impending challenges of fuel limit, tyre wear and reliability.

 

Horner can be as mischievous as Bernie when it comes to throwing a cat amongst the pigeons.

[dau]

Oh shut up Horner you tart.

Who forces you to read his comments? He was asked something and answered, it's not like he went on Speaker's Corner and proclaimed utter Mercedes dominance screaming in a high pitch while flailing his arms.

[bonjon1979a]

Think about this... If an average lap is 90 seconds and an average Grand Prix is 60 laps you would have to be 3 seconds a lap quicker than anybody else to lap the field twice.

There is no way in hell the Mercedes power unit is that much more efficient than the rest.

Exactly - any sensible person could see that it's utter nonsense. There is no way in hell that it's that much quicker. I'm not sure that it's ever happened where a car has lapped the entire field, let alone lapped twice.

[Slackbladder]

 They sure had their dominating races, but most were about making the most out of small advantages.

 

As for the quote: I think it is a combination of keeping expectations down, mind games and Merc actually having a decent advantage.

 

I'm not convinced we ever saw the true pace of cars like the RB7 and RB9...they were able to pull away from the field nearly at will.

[dau]

Exactly - any sensible person could see that it's utter nonsense. There is no way in hell that it's that much quicker. I'm not sure that it's ever happened where a car has lapped the entire field, let alone lapped twice.

https://en.wikipedia...nish_Grand_Prix

https://en.wikipedia...lian_Grand_Prix

[AnR]

Mindgames, but it's probably a fact that Mercedes have been focusing on 2014 while Red Bull have been winning 4 in a row, so I don't think they feel sorry for them selves.

Just a calculated scenario, win today or spend for winning tomorrow.

 

Perhaps next year it's Lauda talking about Honda in the same manner? 

Edited by AnR, 11 March 2014 - 09:32.

[meister]

 They sure had their dominating races, but most were about making the most out of small advantages.

 

 

 

No, most of the time the advantage was enormous and it was a sunday cruise. Now we will see how Redbull and their fans accept the shoe on the other foot. I doubt they will.

[DrivenF1]

Exactly - any sensible person could see that it's utter nonsense. There is no way in hell that it's that much quicker. I'm not sure that it's ever happened where a car has lapped the entire field, let alone lapped twice.

 

It's happened plenty of times in the past. There have been cars much faster e.g. Lotus in the 60s, McLaren 1988, Williams 1992. Hill also lapped the whole finishing field twice in Australia 1995.

 

But I do agree that anyone sensible could see that the Mercedes cars aren't winning by 2 laps.

 

EDIT: Beaten to it. Nice, Dau. Quoting the same race too

Edited by Cult, 11 March 2014 - 09:33.

[alg7_munif]

Horner If they were to finish two laps ahead of the opposition in Melbourne, that wouldn't be a surprise, based on what we've seen in pre-season testing. It's massive.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/148401.html

Chances are small they will, 'cause even if they have such an advantage, they'll take it a bit easier to make sure the cars make it home. And as Horner also says, the other Merc teams seem in decent shape as well.

But how'd you feel about this season if Mercedes (and it's customers) have such an advantage over the Renault and Ferrari teams that they can just leave them way behind every race (at least during the first part of the season)?

Another way of him saying RB could be lapped by 2 laps by Mercedes powered teams. Mercedes team won't slow down if other teams powered by their engine are as competitive as they are.

[P123]

Only two?

[PayasYouRace]

https://en.wikipedia...nish_Grand_Prix

https://en.wikipedia...lian_Grand_Prix

 

Actually a result like the latter in particular could well happen given the level of attrition expected. I'm up for that. It's been far too long since we've had a high attrition race.

[rodlamas]

Think about this... If an average lap is 90 seconds and an average Grand Prix is 60 laps you would have to be 3 seconds a lap quicker than anybody else to lap the field twice.

There is no way in hell the Mercedes power unit is that much more efficient than the rest.

Well, I am pretty sure Mercedes can be 3 seconds a lap faster on average than any of the Renault based teams during the race. If Ferrari suffer reliability problems or has the so called fuel consumption problems, that might happen, though Mercedes would back off.

 

But then you have to take it with a pinch of salt as in 2006 Haug said STR would be on the podium on the 1st race as they had V10 engines.

[undersquare]

I could see the Williams chasing the Mercs into lapping the Red Bulls twice.  Tee Hee Christian  .

 

Things like this I wish Brawn were still there, but it's a great problem to have.

[Jon83]

I doubt they are that much quicker than their nearest rival (whichever team that may be)

[UPRC]

Christian is that worried about Mercedes?

 

GOOD. Bring on the struggling Red Bulls, we've had to put up with their Newey rockets for too long now!

Edited by UPRC, 11 March 2014 - 09:58.

[CHIUNDA]

Who forces you to read his comments? He was asked something and answered, it's not like he went on Speaker's Corner and proclaimed utter Mercedes dominance screaming in a high pitch while flailing his arms.

 

I believe Horner has given realistic answers on many occasions where the press  asked him a question. Don't see why he wouldn't do the same in this case.

[DampMongoose]

C'mon Christian this is silly!

[Jackmancer]

I don't worry about this. Bernie will order a safety car just for the final ten laps.

[slideways]

Horner If they were to finish two laps ahead of the opposition in Melbourne, that wouldn't be a surprise, based on what we've seen in pre-season testing. It's massive.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/148401.html

Chances are small they will, 'cause even if they have such an advantage, they'll take it a bit easier to make sure the cars make it home. And as Horner also says, the other Merc teams seem in decent shape as well.

But how'd you feel about this season if Mercedes (and it's customers) have such an advantage over the Renault and Ferrari teams that they can just leave them way behind every race (at least during the first part of the season)?

 

All power to them if they have done the business in fair competition. 

[Seanspeed]

But how'd you feel about this season if Mercedes (and it's customers) have such an advantage over the Renault and Ferrari teams that they can just leave them way behind every race (at least during the first part of the season)?

I think it'll suck majorly and create a boring year of F1. I'm really struggling to see how anybody would actually enjoy that.

And while Christian was exaggerating obviously, I think the main point to take away is - Mercedes ARE far ahead of everyone.

[Lights]

Who forces you to read his comments? He was asked something and answered, it's not like he went on Speaker's Corner and proclaimed utter Mercedes dominance screaming in a high pitch while flailing his arms.

 

Actually, just turning up on this forum will already make you read the core of his comment, as it's in the thread title. Don't have to do much for that. And of course he was asked something, but this is not the case of an innocent interviewee. He was not asked 'Do you think Mercedes will lap the field twice?' to which he replied 'Maybe' or something. No, it were his words, he didn't have to say this at all, so why wouldn't someone think 'shut up Horner' when he proclaims something as exaggerated as this?

[Seanspeed]

After reading what Horner said, I want Red Bull to fail more.

Why on earth would him saying this bother you so much? :/

[CHIUNDA]

No, most of the time the advantage was enormous and it was a sunday cruise. Now we will see how Redbull and their fans accept the shoe on the other foot. I doubt they will.

 

This is presumptive. I don't believe Red Bull are that far behind IF AT ALL 

[Slackbladder]

I think it'll suck majorly and create a boring year of F1. I'm really struggling to see how anybody would actually enjoy that.

And while Christian was exaggerating obviously, I think the main point to take away is - Mercedes ARE far ahead of everyone.

 

Really? A potential Merc Vs Williams Vs McLaren Vs Ferrari championship ding-dong..

 

Who wouldn't want that, just because Lotus and Red Bull are struggling at the moment...

 

The simple rule of F1, and life in general.. everything changes.

[Seanspeed]

Really? A potential Merc Vs Williams Vs McLaren Vs Ferrari championship ding-dong..
 
Who wouldn't want that, just because Lotus and Red Bull are struggling at the moment...
 
The simple rule of F1, and life in general.. everything changes.

Well for one, we're talking about the team, not the engine.

And I don't get why you think Williams, McLaren and Ferrari are all going to be fighting with Mercedes as equals? Ferrari obviously aren't. McLaren most likely aren't. And I think Williams wont be as close as people think.

Edited by Seanspeed, 11 March 2014 - 10:40.

[Lights]

Why on earth would him saying this bother you so much? :/

 

He's soaked up in recent success, now times are tougher he should show his strong face instead of giving these type of remarks.

[Gorma]

Seriously... All Horner tried to say is that Mercedes has a big advantage. You read too much into these single lines that are taken out of context. Like Hamilton saying that Massa might put the Williams in front. 

[Mercedestorque1]

There were no complaints from Horner when vettel's Car almost lapped the enitre field in Singapore last season. this just proves that they are in trouble this year. instead of concentrating on finding a solution for their current issues they are busy crying about Merc. im so glad were having a new WDC and WCC in 2014!

[Seanspeed]

Seriously... All Horner tried to say is that Mercedes has a big advantage.

For real.

Its amazing how people will use any little thing to reinforce their dislike of somebody.
 

He's soaked up in recent success, now times are tougher he should show his strong face instead of giving these type of remarks.

What type of remark is this, exactly? I don't get it.
 

this just proves that they are in trouble this year. instead of concentrating on finding a solution for their current issues they are busy crying about Merc.

You really think his comment here has some effect on their preparation or competitiveness? You think everybody at the factory is just standing around 'crying about Merc' and not working extremely hard to resolve what issues they can?

Edited by Seanspeed, 11 March 2014 - 10:54.

[stanga]

Who forces you to read his comments? He was asked something and answered, it's not like he went on Speaker's Corner and proclaimed utter Mercedes dominance screaming in a high pitch while flailing his arms.

 

Figuratively, he actually has. I can imagine him whining about how dominant another team is while the rest of us remember Singapore 2013.

[kenkip]

No, most of the time the advantage was enormous and it was a sunday cruise. Now we will see how Redbull and their fans accept the shoe on the other foot. I doubt they will.

Why would you doubt it?Nobody jumped ship in 2012  or early 2013 when Redbull weren't dominating.I am actually looking forward to seeing RBR and Seb finally shut you guys up once and for all by dragging the RB10 back to contention.

 

RE Horner,he is taking a leaf out of Jose Mourinho's book,talking up his rivals expectations while downplaying his.It has worked a treat for Chelsea though.

[Andy35]

 

 

RE Horner,he is taking a leaf out of Jose Mourinho's book,talking up his rivals expectations while downplaying his.It has worked a treat for Chelsea though.

 

Ferrari =  black stallion

RB =  little horse 

 

 

Andy

[dau]

He's soaked up in recent success, now times are tougher he should show his strong face instead of giving these type of remarks.

What type of remarks? Saying that Merc did a better job than Red Bull? He's not 'crying', he's not 'complaining', all he does is stating the obvious, which is that the Merc looks pretty good, especially in comparison with their own car. Saying that he wouldn't be surprised by them lapping the field twice is more likely a figure of speech than an exact quantitative assessment of Merc's advantage.

[dau]

Figuratively, he actually has. I can imagine him whining about how dominant another team is while the rest of us remember Singapore 2013.

Then i'd say your imagination is also the only place where "figuratively, he actually has". He was asked. He answered. He didn't force his opinion on you, you people actually clicked on this thread to read it. 

[Lights]

What type of remarks? Saying that Merc did a better job than Red Bull? He's not 'crying', he's not 'complaining', all he does is stating the obvious, which is that the Merc looks pretty good, especially in comparison with their own car. Saying that he wouldn't be surprised by them lapping the field twice is more likely a figure of speech than an exact quantitative assessment of Merc's advantage.

Well then that's how you read it, and I read it differently.

[SinStorm]

Somewhere a certain Aussie Porsche racer is smiling gleefully methinks! After the comments last year about other constructors' "balls in the pool" etc I have no sympathy for RBR if i'm honest.

[bonjon1979a]

https://en.wikipedia...nish_Grand_Prix

https://en.wikipedia...lian_Grand_Prix

Okay, twice in the history of F1 and one of those only occurred due to a lot of retirements. It could happen again but with the sport being as competitive as it has been I really struggle to believe it.

[Owen]

I suspect the fundamental point is probably valid though; I do expect AMG to dominate. But let's see.

Sure makes a nice change from Red Bull.

[jrg19]

Maybe he should have been conservative and just said 30+ seconds, which it will probably be.