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Jenson Button vs Kevin Magnussen 2014


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#851 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 06:45

I'll admit, not sure where all of the 'jenson to retire' talk came from. But you're right, there seems to be a lot of articles, airtime etc dedicated to it. It must be quite tiresome, especially as the car isn't competitive,

I wonder if the media would be discussing such things if mclaren had made a good car and JB was racing at the front?

 

Now you are being a bit silly. Ofcourse not: if the McLaren was good, Jenson would be enjoying himself hence no retirement-stories. If you allow me to say so: you are being too negative about the media. If I worked in F1 as a journalist, and I would write an op-ed article about McLaren I would also ask the question: could this be Jensons last season? Not because he is not good enough, not because he is not motivated any more, but the constant disappointments are wearing him down, and he admits it himself.

 

EDIT: In the short piece on Autosport now, he is not uttering those doubts - or he tries to refute them.


Edited by Nemo1965, 13 May 2014 - 07:04.


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#852 Lights

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 07:50

Yep, that's good to hear:

 

"If you do retire, you want to retire on a high and if you have the possibility to do that, then you continue racing to get that high. The problem then is when you do that, you don't want to stop racing either, so you could be racing for many years."

 

He's going to race forever  :up:



#853 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 09:19

Well, Jenson hasn't got a contract for next year so for him to say he doesn't want to retire is quite ballsy, he's put his hopes out there and now needs to do enough over the course of the season for McLaren to re-sign him. That said I think realistically only Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel and Alonso would be possible better alternatives (over the long term, given that JB is getting no younger), if McLaren were to consider replacing JB they'd need a superstar, experience, speed and someone on a 3 year + contract to lead into the Honda era. I can't see Hamilton or Rosberg being interested whilst the Merc is so strong. Its whether or not Vettel or Alonso fancy doing a Schumacher/Hamilton and join a project on the up... My guess is that Vettel won't take the risk so it would only be Alonso and I'm not sure he would consider the McLaren-Honda grass to be any greener, or if its realistic with Ron back in the saddle. I also understand the Honda-Button relationship is strong so he's going to get a vote there. So all things considered, I'm not sure McLaren have many realistic better options than Button, so its probably his seat if he wants to stay anyway. Just hope he starts to act and drive like he wants it, his demeanour has been very negative this season. His father passing notwithstanding, but the reason I thought this might be his last season was he doesn't look like he is enjoying it at all... He needs to lead the team in the bad times as well as the good.



#854 Nemo1965

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:28

Well, Jenson hasn't got a contract for next year so for him to say he doesn't want to retire is quite ballsy, he's put his hopes out there and now needs to do enough over the course of the season for McLaren to re-sign him. That said I think realistically only Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel and Alonso would be possible better alternatives (over the long term, given that JB is getting no younger), if McLaren were to consider replacing JB they'd need a superstar, experience, speed and someone on a 3 year + contract to lead into the Honda era. I can't see Hamilton or Rosberg being interested whilst the Merc is so strong. Its whether or not Vettel or Alonso fancy doing a Schumacher/Hamilton and join a project on the up... My guess is that Vettel won't take the risk so it would only be Alonso and I'm not sure he would consider the McLaren-Honda grass to be any greener, or if its realistic with Ron back in the saddle. I also understand the Honda-Button relationship is strong so he's going to get a vote there. So all things considered, I'm not sure McLaren have many realistic better options than Button, so its probably his seat if he wants to stay anyway. Just hope he starts to act and drive like he wants it, his demeanour has been very negative this season. His father passing notwithstanding, but the reason I thought this might be his last season was he doesn't look like he is enjoying it at all... He needs to lead the team in the bad times as well as the good.

 

Well, I recently read an interview with Button that he still does enjoy the work with the engineers, the talking, the testing, the deliberating... but that he felt meh every time the times came back. And that is, ofcourse, when journalists ask him questions. After Q and after R. Not during Q or R...



#855 kraduk

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 10:39

Well, Jenson hasn't got a contract for next year so for him to say he doesn't want to retire is quite ballsy, he's put his hopes out there and now needs to do enough over the course of the season for McLaren to re-sign him. That said I think realistically only Hamilton, Rosberg, Vettel and Alonso would be possible better alternatives (over the long term, given that JB is getting no younger), if McLaren were to consider replacing JB they'd need a superstar, experience, speed and someone on a 3 year + contract to lead into the Honda era. I can't see Hamilton or Rosberg being interested whilst the Merc is so strong. Its whether or not Vettel or Alonso fancy doing a Schumacher/Hamilton and join a project on the up... My guess is that Vettel won't take the risk so it would only be Alonso and I'm not sure he would consider the McLaren-Honda grass to be any greener, or if its realistic with Ron back in the saddle. I also understand the Honda-Button relationship is strong so he's going to get a vote there. So all things considered, I'm not sure McLaren have many realistic better options than Button, so its probably his seat if he wants to stay anyway. Just hope he starts to act and drive like he wants it, his demeanour has been very negative this season. His father passing notwithstanding, but the reason I thought this might be his last season was he doesn't look like he is enjoying it at all... He needs to lead the team in the bad times as well as the good.

 

 

hulk or romain are possibilities



#856 Rinehart

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 11:51

hulk or romain are possibilities

If Button retired yes, but not as an active choice to replace an option on Button no way. Absolutely no chance that McLaren would replace a WDC with 15 wins, all that experience and of course a valued incumbent at McLaren already, with one of the drivers you mention that have not even won yet. McLaren do potentially sensational rookies and WDC's! In the case of Hulkenburg they've passed him up twice now (Perez, Mag signings) and he's not looking much better than Perez now. 



#857 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:07

Now you are being a bit silly. Ofcourse not: if the McLaren was good, Jenson would be enjoying himself hence no retirement-stories. If you allow me to say so: you are being too negative about the media. If I worked in F1 as a journalist, and I would write an op-ed article about McLaren I would also ask the question: could this be Jensons last season? Not because he is not good enough, not because he is not motivated any more, but the constant disappointments are wearing him down, and he admits it himself.

EDIT: In the short piece on Autosport now, he is not uttering those doubts - or he tries to refute them.


Fair point. But what about alonso? Similar age, only started one season later than jenson and hardly overly enamoured with life at Ferrari. Sure I might be being negative about the media. And as for being 'silly', my point was being made tongue in cheek about the mclaren being good hence no retirement talk.

#858 aguri

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:11

I think Button will go one more round next year to cement the good relationship he has had with Honda over a long period. After that he may be test driver or le mans. 

 

One things for sure, Mclaren will be chasing a win at Suzuka next year and Button has form at the circuit. 



#859 aguri

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 12:19

If K-mag doesn't produce the goods in the second half of this season I could see him making way for Hulk. Likewise if Newey leaves RedBull, Vettel or Ricciardo may be an option for 2016.

 

Mclaren suffer from not having a second team to stash young drivers in like RedBull (and at times Ferrari) do. Maybe if Honda start supplying engines to another team in the future we will see guys like Magnussen and Vandoorne cutting their teeth in the customer team for at least a season before heading to McLaren. 



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#860 Rocket73

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 13:04

I imagine if JB does opt for another contract it will be at least two years although wouldn't count out a move to Williams.

 

I also think KM will improve and Ron will keep him on for another year.

 

OT Where can you watch Rallycross?   ;)



#861 kraduk

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 13:06

If Button retired yes, but not as an active choice to replace an option on Button no way. Absolutely no chance that McLaren would replace a WDC with 15 wins, all that experience and of course a valued incumbent at McLaren already, with one of the drivers you mention that have not even won yet. McLaren do potentially sensational rookies and WDC's! In the case of Hulkenburg they've passed him up twice now (Perez, Mag signings) and he's not looking much better than Perez now. 

 not so sure about that, Ron is back to make big changes, and move away from the conservative corporate setup macca has become



#862 BillBald

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 13:22

I believe he was faster looking at the lap times in FP2, FP3 and in the race.

 

The car which pits earlier has older tyres throughout the next stint. There's a price to pay for pitting early, although it can be worth it if you gain track position.

 

FP2, FP3 - not relevant.



#863 WitnessX

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 14:44

It's worth going back to understand why they chose Kevin over other drivers:
 
http://www1.skysport...driver-decision
 

...."When you mention football players who are 26 and 27 and are proven quantities, if you actually look at the grid, we already have a World Champion in one of our cars. Then you have the choice of trying to get another World Champion, and that's not possible at the moment, so then you have the choice of going down a route which you think will create another World Champion.

"You have to remember that on all of our Young Driver Programmes, they are there to produce World Champions. They are not there to produce also-rans because, quite frankly, McLaren has the buying ability to go and buy anyone we want on the grid in that situation. So therefore if you look at our programme critically, we believe that Kevin can be a World Champion - the same way that we believe Vandoorne can be and anyone who comes in behind him. If we don't, they don't stay on our programme - it's as brutal as that."



#864 jjcale

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 14:48

hulk or romain are possibilities

 

"Reportedly" .... Macca dont like Hulk ..... just dont rate him for reasons I have never been able to understand.

 

... but then Reportedly Macca didnt rate JB as good enough to be considered in 07/08 either. 



#865 WitnessX

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 15:27

"Reportedly" .... Macca dont like Hulk ..... just dont rate him for reasons I have never been able to understand.

 

... but then Reportedly Macca didnt rate JB as good enough to be considered in 07/08 either. 

 

..and that might have made sense if he was not on a multi-year deal with Honda from 2006-2008.



#866 coppilcus

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 16:05

If K-mag doesn't produce the goods in the second half of this season I could see him making way for Hulk. Likewise if Newey leaves RedBull, Vettel or Ricciardo may be an option for 2016.

 

Mclaren suffer from not having a second team to stash young drivers in like RedBull (and at times Ferrari) do. Maybe if Honda start supplying engines to another team in the future we will see guys like Magnussen and Vandoorne cutting their teeth in the customer team for at least a season before heading to McLaren. 

 

I don't see McLaren doing to Kevin what they did to Sergio, there were far more powerful things behind that than the super acute simulator data, it's has to do more with the non title sponsor McLaren this season and onward...

 

... Kevin certainly has talent and will be driving for McLaren at least through 2016, "the season when they will be at the top again", unless Honda has something to say about that.


Edited by coppilcus, 13 May 2014 - 16:06.


#867 jjcale

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 16:28

..and that might have made sense if he was not on a multi-year deal with Honda from 2006-2008.

 

That was my thought as well .... but Ron did comment negatively in public when specifically asked about JB, I seem to recall. 



#868 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 16:40

That was my thought as well .... but Ron did comment negatively in public when specifically asked about JB, I seem to recall.


Ron did do so, but I think it was more that "we looked at the current grid and didn't think there was anything better than.." Whoever they had signed at that point (maybe Lewis or Montoya).

I also remember an issue of f1 Racing in 2005 when Ron said kimi and alonso were the future of f1, to which dave Richards said in a later interview that he'd missed one out (that being jenson)

#869 MirNyet

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 17:09

Lies, damn lies and statics eh :)

 

I accept your viewpoint, but respectfully disagree. Lets see what next year brings. 



#870 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:24

I've seen many people use the line "jenson is the oldest driver on the grid" as though this automatically means he's not the future of any f1 team or that he's up for retirement. He's still only 34..

#871 McLaren

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:33

I've seen many people use the line "jenson is the oldest driver on the grid" as though this automatically means he's not the future of any f1 team or that he's up for retirement. He's still only 34..

 

Yeah.. many media have mentioned this, but correct me if I am wrong.. but isn't Kimi actually the oldest on the grid?



#872 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:36

Yeah.. many media have mentioned this, but correct me if I am wrong.. but isn't Kimi actually the oldest on the grid?


Give that man a medal! You are correct, kimi is indeed the oldest.

#873 Peter Perfect

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:38

I've seen many people use the line "jenson is the oldest driver on the grid" as though this automatically means he's not the future of any f1 team or that he's up for retirement. He's still only 34..

 

Interestingly though he's not actually the oldest driver on the grid. He's the most experienced driver on the grid. The oldest driver is Kimi.

 

edit: d'oh! beaten to it


Edited by Peter Perfect, 13 May 2014 - 19:38.


#874 MirNyet

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 19:39

I stand corrected :)



#875 Clatter

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 21:15

If K-mag doesn't produce the goods in the second half of this season I could see him making way for Hulk. Likewise if Newey leaves RedBull, Vettel or Ricciardo may be an option for 2016.

 

Mclaren suffer from not having a second team to stash young drivers in like RedBull (and at times Ferrari) do. Maybe if Honda start supplying engines to another team in the future we will see guys like Magnussen and Vandoorne cutting their teeth in the customer team for at least a season before heading to McLaren. 

 

No they don't. There are several teams that would happily take a Mac junior driver if Mac put up the funds.



#876 study

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 23:07

Well McLaren a few years pass did have almost a junior team in Force India, unfortunately that team is now performing better then McLaren



#877 MattPete

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 23:42

Kobayashi (McLaren Honda)



#878 MP422

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:25

Kobayashi (McLaren Honda)

:clap:  love it !!



#879 Gareth

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 08:06

Button vs Magnusson, please.  Not "Button's career - a retrospective".

 

Thanks



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#880 Force Ten

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:04

Button vs Magnusson, please.  Not "Button's career - a retrospective".

 

Thanks

Didn't you mean Butten vs Magnusson?



#881 Gareth

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:17

Jenson vs Jansen?    ;)



#882 Force Ten

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:20

Jenson vs Jansen?    ;)

Jenson vs Jansson should be according to correct Scandinavian linguistics.



#883 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:37

Fair point. But what about alonso? Similar age, only started one season later than jenson and hardly overly enamoured with life at Ferrari. Sure I might be being negative about the media. And as for being 'silly', my point was being made tongue in cheek about the mclaren being good hence no retirement talk.

 

I enjoy your post, my 'silly' remark was meant in a sweet way... honest!



#884 mclarensmps

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 14:24

Give that man a medal! You are correct, kimi is indeed the oldest.

That makes me feel so old, remembering a sprightly rookie Kimi in his Sauber, and admiring how he fared against quick Nick.

 

Ugh... 



#885 coppilcus

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:21

No they don't. There are several teams that would happily take a Mac junior driver if Mac put up the funds.


Yes they do. Didn't Force India drop lightning fast Magnussen?

I'll assume it have something to do with funds, though...

#886 charly0418

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:45

Yes they do. Didn't Force India drop lightning fast Magnussen?

I'll assume it have something to do with funds, though...

 

Yep, Vijay backstabbed Whitmarsh as he had already said "yes" to Magnussen, then McLaren decided to drop Perez and his money ended up at Force India.



#887 bub

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:11

Yep, Vijay backstabbed Whitmarsh as he had already said "yes" to Magnussen, then McLaren decided to drop Perez and his money ended up at Force India.

 

So if Magnussen was supposed to go to Force India, who was supposed to drive for McLaren?



#888 jjcale

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:28

Kobayashi (McLaren Honda)

 

He's a Toyota man .... but isnt there a young Sato in GP2 or GP3 now?  :p



#889 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:49

So if Magnussen was supposed to go to Force India, who was supposed to drive for McLaren?

 

I thought it was Perez.



#890 Dunc

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 17:49

"Reportedly" .... Macca dont like Hulk ..... just dont rate him for reasons I have never been able to understand.

... but then Reportedly Macca didnt rate JB as good enough to be considered in 07/08 either.

Can't say I blame them, Hulk is very overrated IMHO.

Talk of JB's retirement is OTT, he's only 34 and I think he'll carry on until at least 2018. But, he must be looking at what he's done in F1 and what he has left to do. So far he's driven for a new team (BAR/Honda/Brawn), historic teams (Williams, Enstone, Macca), won GPs and podiums, been a WDC, runner-up and third placed driver. There are two things he hasn't done - driven for Ferrari and worked with Newey and I reckon he'll want to do both to say he did everything, so if the rumours are true I could see him going to Italy to partner Vettel. I think Grosjean will replace him, the Boullier connection.

Mag will be there til at least 2016, Ron loves him.

Edited by Dunc, 14 May 2014 - 17:50.


#891 Blanchimont2002

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:14

That makes me feel so old, remembering a sprightly rookie Kimi in his Sauber, and admiring how he fared against quick Nick.

Ugh...


Haha I'm starting to think I might never make it as an f1 driver ;) 29 isn't too late...?

#892 BRG

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:56

He's a Toyota man .... but isnt there a young Sato in GP2 or GP3 now?  :p

 

Kimiya Sato is in GP2 but no relation to Takuma (nor to Honda AFAIK)



#893 Rinehart

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:12

Can't say I blame them, Hulk is very overrated IMHO.

Talk of JB's retirement is OTT, he's only 34 and I think he'll carry on until at least 2018. But, he must be looking at what he's done in F1 and what he has left to do. So far he's driven for a new team (BAR/Honda/Brawn), historic teams (Williams, Enstone, Macca), won GPs and podiums, been a WDC, runner-up and third placed driver. There are two things he hasn't done - driven for Ferrari and worked with Newey and I reckon he'll want to do both to say he did everything, so if the rumours are true I could see him going to Italy to partner Vettel. I think Grosjean will replace him, the Boullier connection.

Mag will be there til at least 2016, Ron loves him.

I wouldn't say Hulk is overrated, he's amongst the best of the rest (and I think he's been flattered by some poor teammates), but there are only 8 top seats in the big 4 teams and 5 WDCS have those, so only Magnussen, Rosberg and Riccardo have been picked over him. I'd say that there is nothing that surprising about Red Bull or McLaren picking one of their young drivers ahead, and certainly it would be bizarre for Mercedes to drop Rosberg. So the only time I can think of when he genuinely missed out was when McLaren picked Perez over him and now they are teammates at FI its not exactly looking like a massively poor decision. 

 

As far as the idea of Button, Vettel and Newey all going to Ferrari - that's a lot of double sixes to roll, can't see all that happening. My guess is that McLaren's current line up will not change now for a few years. I think the McLaren-Honda will need to prove competitive before a WDC can be attracted to it, maybe 2-3 years away.


Edited by Rinehart, 15 May 2014 - 08:16.


#894 BillBald

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 14:13

Very interesting video here, we get to see Kevin's entire first lap in Spain, showing how he got past Jenson and was then repassed.

 

http://www.canalplus...ml?vid=1070896#

 

(from about 3:10)


Edited by BillBald, 16 May 2014 - 14:17.


#895 Lights

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 14:29

Nice driving there by the both of them, but if anyone impressed me in that video it's Kvyat.



#896 Lazy

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 15:07

vettel messy tbh



#897 Peter Perfect

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 20:10

Nice driving there by the both of them, but if anyone impressed me in that video it's Kvyat.

 

:up:  That's how I like to see teammates race.



#898 Cesc

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 18:48

Very interesting video here, we get to see Kevin's entire first lap in Spain, showing how he got past Jenson and was then repassed.

 

http://www.canalplus...ml?vid=1070896#

 

(from about 3:10)

Cool stuff!



#899 Exb

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 20:06

Thanks for posting the on-board video, great to see such close and fair racing between Kevin and Jenson.

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#900 eronrules

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 12:24

BoJjZIFCYAAwpTJjpg_large_zpseb7fcfe8.jpg

 

we should change the thread title from Jenson vs Kevin

 

to

 

Jenson button X kevin magnussen