Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 17 votes

Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3908 replies to this topic

#3901 mardmarium

mardmarium
  • Member

  • 489 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:25

No, it did not exist. Alonso simply did what is required as a part of the job of a top F1 driver. Find a way how to drive anything you have to drive the fastest possible way.

 

New Mercedes may be easy to drive for Hamilton in terms that he did not have to adjust but that does not mean that he wouldn't drive just as quickly as possible any other car with different characteristics. So it was easier for him but that's all.

 

If Kimi changed from Sauber days (and I know that he did), it simply means that he is not able to change enough. That's all. Everything else are just silly excuses.

Kimi himself is much more realistic than his fans. He knows it's up to him to solve his problems.

 

I agree.

 

I remember I talked about it in the F138 thread last year, before knowing anything about Raikkonen performance this year. I think people were saying that Alonso should leave the team; that the car was a disaster and Ferrari results were basically due to Alonso adaptability and his ability to extract the maximum from the car…I remember I said something like “is Alonso adaptable? that´s what Ferrari expects him be, the reason why he is so highly paid and considered one of the best drivers, even in history”
 
Alonso is doing his job, nothing more, nothing less, many people say he is the most complete driver, he should never be considered the most complete driver if he weren´t adaptable. This is what I thought last year and what I think now, nothing has changed in between. I said few days ago that Raikkonen needs to find the way in order to adapt, the man himself seems to think so. It cannot always be, as some Raikkonen fans seem to think, someone else´s /something else’s fault (the driving style, the wheather, the tyres, the lack of mileage, the engineers, the car built around Alonso, Alonso using the pull rod suspension at Minardi 13 years ago, bad luck…).Top drivers adapt. It is what it is. 


Advertisement

#3902 Astro

Astro
  • Member

  • 406 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:25

Again, you provided no explanations on how you determined the "driving style" parameters for Alonso or Kimi. But never mind as your basic argument is flawed.

 

The fastest way around the track would be to brake on the straight to the velocity that produces the lateral friction force that is equal to the centripetal force for the initial radius of curvature, with the radius of curvature being most often the largest possible radius (entry/exit on the outside, touching inner border on the apex) but it's not always so, because the exit trajectory depends also on the next curve and the required trajectory for it, if the next curve is close so a compromise might be needed. But it's out of scope of this explanation as it changes nothing.

 

Then, when the car slows down to just this marginal speed, the fastest way from the physics point of view would be for the car to instantenously change the direction to a curved one with the above described radius because that way the least time is lost to slowing down to the required velocity - if you don't do it instantenously, you need to slow down earlier to the max. speed supported by your "transitional" curve.

 

Then, if the trajectory through the curve is circular, the same speed is maintained until the exit. If the curve tightens, the speed must be proportionally reduced. If the curve opens, the speed must be increased to keep the car on the balance between the lateral friction and centripetal forces.

 

Then, at the exit of the curve, again the fastest way would be to instantenously direct the car into a straight trajectory because that way the power can be applied as early as possible, while with the gentle "transition" curve the car still depends on the lateral friction that is not the limiting factor on the straight.

 

Let me put it this way: if you don't change the directions instantenously, then you spend more time cornering and less driving straight, meaning that you have less speed because cornering is slower than full throttle on the straight.

 

That makes tonnes of sense. I've never thought of that... I need to try it!! :lol:

 

(I'll wait a bit for Alexandros to reply [if he does]. I admit to be clueless enough to wonder if there is more to it than the above..., but it sounds awesome!)


Edited by Astro, 22 April 2014 - 14:45.


#3903 AngelaTifosi

AngelaTifosi
  • Member

  • 484 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:27

 

I agree.

 

I remember I talked about it in the F138 thread last year, before knowing anything about Raikkonen performance this year. I think people were saying that Alonso should leave the team; that the car was a disaster and Ferrari results were basically due to Alonso adaptability and his ability to extract the maximum from the car…I remember I said something like “is Alonso adaptable? that´s what Ferrari expects him be, the reason why he is so highly paid and considered one of the best drivers, even in history”
 
Alonso is doing his job, nothing more, nothing less, many people say he is the most complete driver, he should never be considered the most complete driver if he weren´t adaptable. This is what I thought last year and what I think now, nothing has changed in between. I said few days ago that Raikkonen needs to find the way in order to adapt, the man himself seems to think so. It cannot always be, as some Raikkonen fans seem to think, someone else´s /something else’s fault (the driving style, the wheather, the tyres, the lack of mileage, the engineers, the car built around Alonso, Alonso using the pull rod suspension at Minardi 13 years ago, bad luck…).Top drivers adapt. It is what it is. 

 

 

 

Dont worry, work is under progress.

 

Kimi Räikkönen (@KimiTheIceman17):

Kimi will return to Maranello to drive at simulator and test some new parts to improve his feeling.

 



#3904 sniper80

sniper80
  • Member

  • 1,948 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:29

As a Kimi fan, I'm disappointed in his results so far for Ferrari. It was to be exptected that he would be slower than Alonso in the first races, as the car is built for Alonso & the team is built around the Spaniard.

But I did not expect such a huge gap like in China. Not good at all. Kimi needs to get his act together. The stuff about the tyres, not getting heat into them, the front suspension not being OK.... well that can all be true, but the real exceptional drivers drive around this and wrestle the car around the track in the quickest way possible. Kimi's lap times were not even consistent in China.

 

Let's wait & see how the season develops, but it did not start well at all for the Fin. Next races are crucial.



#3905 bub

bub
  • Member

  • 2,722 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:31

Random forum members know better than Fernando Alonso how an F1 car should be driven now.  :lol:



#3906 mzvztag

mzvztag
  • Member

  • 816 posts
  • Joined: August 13

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:32

Random forum members know better than Fernando Alonso how an F1 car should be driven now.  :lol:

:up:  :up:  :up:

 

Apparently, poor Alonso is unaware that his apparently unchangeable style is sub-optimal   ;)


Edited by mzvztag, 22 April 2014 - 14:36.


#3907 sheepgobba

sheepgobba
  • Member

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:47

I honestly don't get why some people are replying to the obvious lunatics and trolls in this thread. I know this is a discussion board and allows for argument but even then comes a point where headless cocks will shout anything that seems to fit their agenda and it's pretty clear by now. It's better off to ignore those unable to argue in a professional manner or repeat things a million times until it somehow becomes a reality.

 

:stoned:  


Edited by sheepgobba, 22 April 2014 - 14:48.


#3908 crespo

crespo
  • Member

  • 1,038 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 22 April 2014 - 14:50

As a Kimi fan, I'm disappointed in his results so far for Ferrari. It was to be exptected that he would be slower than Alonso in the first races, as the car is built for Alonso & the team is built around the Spaniard.

But I did not expect such a huge gap like in China. Not good at all. Kimi needs to get his act together. The stuff about the tyres, not getting heat into them, the front suspension not being OK.... well that can all be true, but the real exceptional drivers drive around this and wrestle the car around the track in the quickest way possible. Kimi's lap times were not even consistent in China.

 

Let's wait & see how the season develops, but it did not start well at all for the Fin. Next races are crucial.

How is this still being taken as a fact?



#3909 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,465 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 April 2014 - 15:03

A little early for part one to be closed but that's because I told kosmos he could open part two and then found I needed to give this one a bit of prune again. See you in part two!