Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 6 votes

Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo 2014


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3996 replies to this topic

#1 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 11:58

Ladies and Gents, without further ado I would like to present you with the thread absolutely no one was waiting for, the 2014 Pan-Germanic-Australian hunger games. 

 

A long running tradition here at Autosport, providing a rich and textured history of cultural discourse in the form of hundreds of pages of poo flinging, grown men breaking and moderators setting new heights in most number of editor buttons utilised in a single post, all delightfully veiled behind several on topic posts.

 

With the shock exit of Muck Wibbah, Red Bull have searched the land far and wide to find a serious young gentleman to uphold it's core brand principals of being cool and stuff.

 

Retained is Sebastian 'Finger Boy' Vettel. A truly dominant and intimidating force against the established champions of the sport:

 

vett_fbmw-7-470x702.jpg

 

 

Over his F1 career he has successfully faced off against a French cry baby and Australian drama queen, in the process alienating hundreds of millions of people from both Taurine and the primary finger on their right hand.

 

Could we see a similar tale spun by Daniel "Smiley" Ricciardo, the young Italian-Australian-Englishman-Soon-to-be-Monegasque-but-will-then-no-longer-be-Englishman?

 

Will he single-handedly cultivate the smiles of the world and transpose them into frowns of pure pleasure? Only time will tell.

 

article-2579161-1C367A8D00000578-82_634x

 

 

Previous threads (enter at your own peril):

 

Vettel Vs Webber - 2013

Vettel vs Webber 2012

Vettel v Webber 2011

Vettel and Webber scorecard 2010

Webber v. Vettel scoreboard. Well someone has to start it! 2009


Edited by slideways, 26 May 2014 - 08:50.


Advertisement

#2 krapmeister

krapmeister
  • Member

  • 5,576 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:02

I'm confused - I thought you didn't like these sort of opening posts?

And I thought driver v. driver threads were banned? :drunk:



#3 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:05

On the advice of the moderators, Risil and Hulk Hogan I have decided to change my position. And apparently not! So we can spend the next year trolling each other despite sharing the exact same viewpoint on everything.  :up:



#4 Zava

Zava
  • Member

  • 5,018 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:07

now that is an opening post! :lol:

 

I hope the slightly hostile environment of the Vettel vs Webber threads won't be present here, wouldn't fit the driver pairing, unlike the Mark & Seb combo, Dan & Seb seem to get along nicely.

though I admit, I'd love some special entries from karne. :p



#5 plumtree

plumtree
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:09

I'm confused - I thought you didn't like these sort of opening posts?

And I thought driver v. driver threads were banned? :drunk:

Driver threads and VS. of no current teammates threads are banned, AFAIK.

 

 

I'd put this before things get nasty. :smoking: (which I absolutely do not hope to see!)
 


Edited by plumtree, 14 March 2014 - 12:16.


#6 Grundle

Grundle
  • Member

  • 692 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:18

Of all the team mate battles, this is the most intriguing one for me. I believe they will be closely matched. Vettel by less than 20 points in the end

#7 GlenP

GlenP
  • Member

  • 3,403 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:20

Personally I think we're going to see more evidence of the excellence of Vettel. Of course, some will never accept it.



#8 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:32

The good news is we can reinstate the scorecard this year after giving up some time ago. In the past we have used a simple 1 point tally for both quali and the race.

 
For my opinion - I find it very difficult to comment on Ricciardo's skill based on his HRT and STR stints. He has obviously performed very well in junior categories, is a good qualifier and will have matured well by now.
 
He has struggled to shake off a reputation that while quick, he is perhaps not aggressive enough and cruises at 8/10ths, as he very rarely makes mistakes or crashes. We will find out very quickly against Vettel whether that is the case.
 
He seemed quite bemused in a press conference today (yesterday?) when being quizzed on his 'first race' by the Aussie journos. But it is easy to forget that he has 50 starts under his belt.


#9 kenkip

kenkip
  • Member

  • 465 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:50

It will be closer than most think in Qualifying,especially next year when Danny boy is dialled in.Though I do not think he can match Seb's intensity during races.As Webber said,Alonso and Vettel are like machines on Sunday,consistently turning up each weekend will be a huge effort.

I hope they wont have personal issues,or in other words I hope Redbull handle them better than Mark.The biggest issues with Vettel and webber was made by the RBR management.



#10 sanjiro

sanjiro
  • Member

  • 1,895 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:06

 

The good news is we can reinstate the scorecard this year after giving up some time ago. In the past we have used a simple 1 point tally for both quali and the race.

 
For my opinion - I find it very difficult to comment on Ricciardo's skill based on his HRT and STR stints. He has obviously performed very well in junior categories, is a good qualifier and will have matured well by now.
 
He has struggled to shake off a reputation that while quick, he is perhaps not aggressive enough and cruises at 8/10ths, as he very rarely makes mistakes or crashes. We will find out very quickly against Vettel whether that is the case.
 
He seemed quite bemused in a press conference today (yesterday?) when being quizzed on his 'first race' by the Aussie journos. But it is easy to forget that he has 50 starts under his belt.

 

 

 

Aussie journos, not the sharpest tools in the shed.

 

Dan is like his father.

Who was always fast, always fair, rarely over drove the car, but often came away with the win.



#11 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 8,179 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:10

Vettel in a landslide.

 

:cool:



#12 Yenool

Yenool
  • New Member

  • 18 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:17

I think Vettel is better than people give him credit for.   Having said that Ricciardo seems fast in  qualifying.  I expect Vettel to edge most qualifying sessions by a couple of tenths but the real difference will be on race day - when IMO Vettel will be in a class above Ricciardo. 



#13 DS27

DS27
  • Member

  • 1,053 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:22

I don't think he will reguarly beat Vettel, but I think Daniel will surprise people by being fairly close, and more than that, very consistent. He very rarely seems to make mistakes.



#14 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,476 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:23

I remember when Ricciardo debuted mid-season, he was mostly overlooked, being in an HRT and all. Understandable. But if you actually looked into what was going on with the teammate battle, he was actually *spanking* Fisi on Sundays after just a couple races.

That's at HRT and Vettel is a whole nother kettle of corn chips, but I dont think he's necessarily this one trick pony a lot of people think he is.

#15 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:23

When previously discussing this head to head, I stated I believed that D.R would only trouble Seb in qualifying, and that Seb would be too well rounded in race trim for D.R to trouble him. I still stick to that opinion, D.R did not show he could consistently finish ahead of JEV when they were teammates, the total was 13-12 to D.R over the 2 seasons. He did not show much improvement from in 2013, as the score was 7-7 in 2012, and 6-5 in 2013,

 

Seb at this stage is just too seasoned for D.R to trouble him. He mastered the RB last year in race trim, and displayed he could keep his ego in check and conserve pace (with a bit of assistance from Rocky). Seb also showed he can overtake well, fight through the field when behind and make decent starts to GP's. There are not many weaknesses to Seb's game.

 

If the R.B is unreliable and lacking pace it does give more scope for D.R to be competitive. The more chances of DNF's and Seb getting caught up in dirty, the more hope D.R has of the points score swinging in his favor.

 

D.R is an unpolished diamond in my opinion, he has the pace but he needs seasoning. I will be impressed if Seb can out-qualify him consistently.



#16 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:27

I expect Dan to be close to SV in qualy, not so sure in the races, he isn't still as consistent but he could get there.

 

One thing I don't get is why a lot of people are treating Dan like he's a rookie. This is his third full season and he's not that much younger than SV, not even 2 years! I think people sometimes forget that SV is only 26 because he's been around for so long  :drunk:



#17 sanjiro

sanjiro
  • Member

  • 1,895 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:27

 

I would be stunned if Seb didnt out qualify him in 90% of the races.



#18 meister

meister
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:27

Daniel will run him close. 1st race of season and already within a few tenths.



#19 ollebompa

ollebompa
  • Member

  • 628 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:28

I've got my main-man Seb on this one. I'm not saying it's going to be a walkover, but if it is i hope Dan can handle it.

Advertisement

#20 JohnDoe

JohnDoe
  • New Member

  • 25 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:29

Hands down Ricciardo - look at that teeth and compare with Sebs. Easy



#21 BCM

BCM
  • Member

  • 292 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:30

I think it will be very close. I expect Dan to run Vettel much closer than Webber did.



#22 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 935 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:32

Daniel will run him close. 1st race of season and already within a few tenths.

 

Mark Webber always was close.... we saw how that ended. :lol:



#23 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:33

Mark Webber always was close.... we saw how that ended. :lol:

 

Mark was always past his peak... Daniel is yet to reach his.   ;)

 

What a lot of people have failed to consider as well that whilst Marko does have his soft spot for Seb, Ricciardo is another Red Bull junior... Vettel hasn't had to contend with someone who has taken the same route as him since Liuzzi back in 2007.


Edited by DanardiF1, 14 March 2014 - 13:34.


#24 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:34

I would be stunned if Seb didnt out qualify him in 90% of the races.

If that happens I will be impressed with Seb. I do rate D.R's one lap pace, and whilst I think Seb will win the qualifying battle, I think D.R can have some success.

 

I would be more stunned if D.R finishes ahead of Seb on Sundays more than a handful of times



#25 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:37

It will be closer than most think in Qualifying,especially next year when Danny boy is dialled in.Though I do not think he can match Seb's intensity during races.As Webber said,Alonso and Vettel are like machines on Sunday,consistently turning up each weekend will be a huge effort.

I hope they wont have personal issues,or in other words I hope Redbull handle them better than Mark.The biggest issues with Vettel and webber was made by the RBR management.

Indeed, it was agreed today in a very important person live stream chat room that had F1 team bosses taken lead roles in WWII, di Montezemolo would have led a fascist Italy to victory through the sending of many angry letters and the RAF would have in fact lost the Battle of Britain after Chapman's leadership led to the UK preceding the Japanese Kamikaze and quickly running out of Commonwealth pilots. To continue the theme, Horner would have mismanaged the superpowers in the Cuban Missile Crisis, leading to WWIII, the desolation of mankind and a turn based post apocalyptic society set in the mojave desert.



#26 GhostR

GhostR
  • Member

  • 2,631 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:39

I expect Dan to show well in Qually right from the start. Vettel will shade him in the races initially, but don't be surprised if Ricciardo starts shaking things up as the year goes on.

 

The impression I have of Dan is that he'll learn and adapt. It's what he did at HRT, and also at STR he clearly continued to improve. The stats don't reflect it for various reasons, but Dan pulled away from JEV in both qually and race trim through 2013.

 

2014 will be Dan's first year lining up alongside a proven winner, multi-WDC, heavily experienced team mate. I expect him to be able to learn and evolve from this match up, developing into a stronger and stronger driver as the year goes on. By year's end, I suspect Vettel will know he's going to have a tough fight for 2015.



#27 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:43

Vettel's biggest challenge this year will not be working to win a 5th title... it'll be how he copes with Ricciardo being all over him from day 1.



#28 plumtree

plumtree
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:46

One thing to think about this year is that as the field seems to be spread more than it was in the last few years whoever it will be being a couple of tenths slower/faster probably wouldn't make much difference in terms of where they end up on position charts. So given that both have comparable luck reliability-wise, I don't think there will be a big points difference and I can see a close competition on Saturdays.



#29 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:48

One thing I do expect is much less tension in the garage. IMO one of the main problems in the WEB-VET relationship was Helmut Marko. That won't be a problem anymore as Dan is also one of his drivers.



#30 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,279 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:48

Solid start by Dan today. Those who've followed him over the years know Dan tends to have a lot in hand on Fridays. But then so does Seb.  :cool:



#31 meister

meister
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:49

Need to see how Daniel goes in races or will be struggle with tyres like Webber too often did. Vettel looked very ragged today, sliding a lot, still remains to be seen if he can adapt his style to the new regs. You can just smash the car around the track like its on rails, you need smooth controlled driving.



#32 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 5,386 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:54

Seb's quite the drama queen himself but only when things aren't going his way, and since RBR would usually be on his side.. that wouldn't happen very often.  When it did, he usually threw the toys out of the pram as much as anyone.

 

Dan has high morale at the moment, but it's easy to be that way in the beginning.  He has to forge his own way.. and define his own path.  It wouldn't surprise me if over time things erode for him.. but he's still young and has that upside or the growth.. or potential or whatever you want to call it.  The same thing that Grosjean has gone through.  I don't know if anyone noticed.. but once Kimi announced going to Ferrari, suddenly the team started to support Grosjean more and suddenly he seemed like a different driver and Kimi seemed average.  The chemistry within the team can be a powerful thing.

 

Similar to Grosjean with Kimi, Dan has to build his own relationship and strength within the team.. and/or hope that Seb leaves for Ferrari.

 

In the meantime he will probably be in a similar position to Webber, but who knows.  He's young, dumb and full of..

 

He has the speed and the potential.. seems like a solid driver but it's all unproven.  In the first season he'll probably be hoping to learn from Seb, and just to stay close to him.. or to take advantage if Seb has any bad weekends.  Seb is a very solid and complete driver these days, so to beat him at all.. will be something.  To beat him regularly will be something else.

 

He could have a similar thing as to what Nico and Lewis have.. in a best case scenario.  But he'll always be seen as the younger driver, as the one who is to support Vettel, and he just has to try and learn as much as he can in the process.

 

Seb's the favourite and he should be.. and Dan just needs to try and stay close.  He seems much more easy going and less chances for dramas and in that respect, he was an easy choice for RBR as the new driver.



#33 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,279 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:55

Need to see how Daniel goes in races or will be struggle with tyres like Webber too often did. Vettel looked very ragged today, sliding a lot, still remains to be seen if he can adapt his style to the new regs. You can just smash the car around the track like its on rails, you need smooth controlled driving.

 

Daniel used to be much better than JEV when it came to tyre management, but I'm not sure that JEV isn't actually one of the worst on the grid when it comes to tyres. So it will be interesting. Historically Seb has been the tyre whisperer on the Pirellis.



#34 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 13:59

Daniel used to be much better than JEV when it came to tyre management, but I'm not sure that JEV isn't actually one of the worst on the grid when it comes to tyres. So it will be interesting. Historically Seb has been the tyre whisperer on the Pirellis.

 

Which was connected to his mastery of the EBD (perhaps a bit of a safety net?)... The way he was driving today can't have been good for his tyres, which is why I thought Ricciardo's relative pace with his much smoother style was impressive.


Edited by DanardiF1, 14 March 2014 - 13:59.


#35 bub

bub
  • Member

  • 2,279 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:00

I really don't think Ricciardo can beat Vettel in their first year together. I rate Ricciardo highly so I think on occasion he will be able to come close to or even beat Vettel but for the most part I expect Vettel to comfortably beat Daniel and clearly be the better driver over the course of the season. Ricciardo is less experienced and new to the team, Vettel is a top driver in his prime. I hope Ricciardo can give Vettel more of a challenge than Webber but I doubt it will happen in year one.



#36 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,489 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:03

I really like Vettel, but I think Ricciardo will surprise us all.



#37 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:05

Here are their times in FP2 compared http://en.mclarenf-1...4&s=7314&graf=3

 

On the long run, if they were both on softs, SV looks better, as I expected.



#38 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:05

I really like Vettel, but I think Ricciardo will surprise us all.

 

This.

 

I'm not a Vettel fan, but would love to see him really challenged by Dan.



#39 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 6,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:06

Here are their times in FP2 compared http://en.mclarenf-1...4&s=7314&graf=3

 

On the long run, if they were both on softs, SV looks better, as I expected.

 

Hard to judge from today, because teams like Williams obviously split their cars on strategy... RBR were probably running different fuel loads on each car.



Advertisement

#40 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:22

Hard to judge from today, because teams like Williams obviously split their cars on strategy... RBR were probably running different fuel loads on each car.

 

It could be, I don't know, as far as i remember they've never done that, they usually split their strategies by running one car on options and the other on primes, but maybe this year they're trying different things.

To be honest, the only other pair of drivers I payed attention to were Rosberg and Hamilton and they were doing more or less the same times, so I assumed RBR would be doing the same.



#41 TheUltimateWorrier

TheUltimateWorrier
  • Member

  • 838 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:29

I'd put this before things get nasty. :smoking: (which I absolutely do not hope to see!)

 

 

Well, at least it's an improvement on the Vettel/Webber "Diz iz moy butt".  What ******* drongo green-lit that campaign?



#42 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:32

This.

 

I'm not a Vettel fan, but would love to see him really challenged by Dan.

I think we all would.

 

Do you guys think there are a lot of people ready to get on board with a Vettel teammate?



#43 BCM

BCM
  • Member

  • 292 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:35

It could be, I don't know, as far as i remember they've never done that, they usually split their strategies by running one car on options and the other on primes, but maybe this year they're trying different things.

 

They may have been trying different front wings. The local commentators mentioned that Ricciardo had come in for a stop during one of the sessions and they'd swapped over a front wing.



#44 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,279 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:41

It's fundamentally too early to look too closely at the gap between them. The team is still trying to get on its feet, there will be new parts, lots of testing, different directions taken until they settle on a defined package. From the sounds of it they will be bringing an entirely B spec car for Spain so that might be the time to start taking the intra-team battle seriously. 



#45 st99

st99
  • Member

  • 379 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 14:52

Let's hope they both have a couple of races without too many problems, then we'll be able to compare them :)



#46 Jerem

Jerem
  • Member

  • 183 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 14 March 2014 - 15:25

I think on Saturdays, Vettel is the best with Hamilton. Ricciardo blew Vergne away in qualifying but I'm really interested to see if he can challenge Vettel. As for Sundays, Vettel will undoubtedly have the edge early on, he's been at home at Red Bull for many years now.



#47 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,645 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 17:19

Well it is nice to have a place to discuss the drivers in light of racing.  I've never put much credit in teammate battles and I still don't.  What I am more interested in seeing is whether these two can work together to put the Red Bull back on top.  Here's hoping!


Edited by bourbon, 14 March 2014 - 17:19.


#48 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,279 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 March 2014 - 17:58

Well it is nice to have a place to discuss the drivers in light of racing.  I've never put much credit in teammate battles and I still don't.  What I am more interested in seeing is whether these two can work together to put the Red Bull back on top.  Here's hoping!

 

I think at the moment that's what fans of both drivers want. Work together to get the team to the front, then worry about intra-team dominance (which will likely be Vettel's given everything, but anyway...)



#49 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 1,790 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 14 March 2014 - 21:54

I think that these first few races it will be nip and tuck in qualifying and in some parts of the races but Vettel's experience and quality will come to the fore.

 

This year Dan will have to try his utmost to stay as close as possible to Seb so he can gain confidence for next season and the seasons after where he might be at the stage to challenge Seb.



#50 chipmcdonald

chipmcdonald
  • Member

  • 763 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 15 March 2014 - 01:26

I think Redbull will create a furious uproar as the team orders Ricciardo to pull over after the first lap, to await handing his car over to Vettel midway through the race so at least the WDC can be salvaged.  Ricciardo will then attempt to get Vettel's car to go a complete race distance. 

 

/ :stoned: