Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 6 votes

Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo 2014


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3996 replies to this topic

#1951 Ricciardo2014

Ricciardo2014
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:21

We hear that they were never able to find the problem as the telemetry showed nothing.

Actually the fact that the telemetry wasn't showing anything was a very obvious clue that something mysterious was wrong because they could not point to anything Daniel was doing better, driving wise, than Vettel
In other words, they couldn't even point at something like "Dan is better on the brakes" or "He gets on the throttle out of corners better..." etc.

Must have been very frustrating all round.


Ok........this is doing my head in.

Does anyone on this forum actually think Red Bull would release a statement saying "Dan is better on the brakes" or ? ?

Advertisement

#1952 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 307 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:26

We hear that they were never able to find the problem as the telemetry showed nothing.

 

Actually the fact that the telemetry wasn't showing anything was a very obvious clue that something mysterious was wrong because they could not point to anything Daniel was doing better, driving wise, than Vettel.

 

In other words, they couldn't even point at something like "Dan is better on the brakes" or "He gets on the throttle out of corners better..." etc.

 

Must have been very frustrating all round.

We will see if I am wrong but it is the problem with Seb forgetting the blown diffuser technique, he got too much used to it than the chassis issues. If it was chassis he would have problems all the time, but there was a race where he had fastest lap and there was time when he was going at normal speed on softer tires.



#1953 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:32

Ok........this is doing my head in.

Does anyone on this forum actually think Red Bull would release a statement saying "Dan is better on the brakes" or ? ?

 

They wouldn't release it, but those were the reports coming from insiders in their camp.

 

We will see if I am wrong but it is the problem with Seb forgetting the blown diffuser technique, he got too much used to it than the chassis issues. If it was chassis he would have problems all the time, but there was a race where he had fastest lap and there was time when he was going at normal speed on softer tires.

 

True, but then it would have been easy for them to tell him to stop doing A,B and C. Which they didn't as far as I know. But yes, it could just very well be that he is finding his old habits very hard to break after some 4/5 years. In which case his performance in Spain was just a one off.



#1954 Ricciardo2014

Ricciardo2014
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 14 May 2014 - 10:38

They wouldn't release it, but those were the reports coming from insiders in their camp.


Again, I'm happy to believe this but unless you reveal your "insiders" then I'll take it as another unsubstantiated rumour ;)

#1955 Mercedestorque1

Mercedestorque1
  • Member

  • 194 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:04

could it be that Dan is more adaptable?  ;)



#1956 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,068 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:11

Monaco will be interesting. Traditionally not Vettel's strongest track, though he has improved there over the years, and experience certainly matters there. In junior formulas Ricciardo was very strong there (I recall him winning in 2010 and 2011 in WSR 3.5) but he has actually struggled there in his two outings in F1, with JEV outperforming him on both occasions (very rare), if memory serves.

 

Edited to add that this morning Red Bull have officially denied that Vettel's chassis was distorted:

 

“The ‘old’ chassis has not been found to be distorted,” chief engineer Paul Monaghan said in response to a query.

“The investigation is ongoing as the extent of the checks is vast in order to be thorough. No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work to that completed prior to and within the Spanish GP."

“Changes to some ancillary equipment and preparation procedures has resulted from the checks made thus far,” Monaghan added.

http://www.grandprix...o-be-distorted/


Edited by goingthedistance, 14 May 2014 - 11:17.


#1957 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:35

BnluYt-IQAAb4Tx.jpg

 

According to Ricciardo, he and Vettel have a similar sense of humor and get along well. 

That, he adds, is unusual for teammates.


Edited by bourbon, 14 May 2014 - 11:44.


#1958 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:39

Monaco will be interesting. Traditionally not Vettel's strongest track, though he has improved there over the years, and experience certainly matters there. In junior formulas Ricciardo was very strong there (I recall him winning in 2010 and 2011 in WSR 3.5) but he has actually struggled there in his two outings in F1, with JEV outperforming him on both occasions (very rare), if memory serves.

 

Edited to add that this morning Red Bull have officially denied that Vettel's chassis was distorted:

 

“The ‘old’ chassis has not been found to be distorted,” chief engineer Paul Monaghan said in response to a query.

“The investigation is ongoing as the extent of the checks is vast in order to be thorough. No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work to that completed prior to and within the Spanish GP."

“Changes to some ancillary equipment and preparation procedures has resulted from the checks made thus far,” Monaghan added.

http://www.grandprix...o-be-distorted/

 

So I was right. Placebo.



#1959 Ricciardo2014

Ricciardo2014
  • Member

  • 153 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:44

BnluYt-IQAAb4Tx.jpg


Dan's bottle seems very erect while Seb's seems to be drooping

Advertisement

#1960 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 May 2014 - 11:46

BnluYt-IQAAb4Tx.jpg

 

According to Ricciardo, he and Vettel have a similar sense of humor and get along well. 

That, he adds, is unusual for teammates.

Link to interview?



#1961 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:00

Link to interview?

 

Link to article



#1962 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 14 May 2014 - 12:39

Monaco will be interesting. Traditionally not Vettel's strongest track, though he has improved there over the years, and experience certainly matters there. In junior formulas Ricciardo was very strong there (I recall him winning in 2010 and 2011 in WSR 3.5) but he has actually struggled there in his two outings in F1, with JEV outperforming him on both occasions (very rare), if memory serves.

 

Edited to add that this morning Red Bull have officially denied that Vettel's chassis was distorted:

 

“The ‘old’ chassis has not been found to be distorted,” chief engineer Paul Monaghan said in response to a query.

“The investigation is ongoing as the extent of the checks is vast in order to be thorough. No one error can be considered an entire explanation and requires further work to that completed prior to and within the Spanish GP."

“Changes to some ancillary equipment and preparation procedures has resulted from the checks made thus far,” Monaghan added.

http://www.grandprix...o-be-distorted/

 

I always thought the damaged chassis was nonsense and just a placebo issue. Vettel needs to get ontop of his driving style if he wants to challenge Ricciardo without that 'quick fix'.



#1963 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 13:37

BnluYt-IQAAb4Tx.jpg

 

According to Ricciardo, he and Vettel have a similar sense of humor and get along well. 

That, he adds, is unusual for teammates.

 

People always want to believe that SV is angered and jealous of Dan's performance when it's probably more correct to say that he is instead intrigued by it seeing as he doesn't know what he's doing wrong. I'm not surprised that they get along at all and will be very surprised if things ever get frosty between the two.



#1964 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,068 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 16:37

It's just nice to see Red Bull team-mates not at each other's throats. Dan always seems to have good relationships with his team-mates.  :cool:



#1965 ollebompa

ollebompa
  • Member

  • 552 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:38

I wonder where AMuS got their info about the chassis from? Here's what Seb himself said today:

 

"It was not twisted, it was another issue. But I think Sunday was already a step in the right direction. Last weekend was a very short weekend on my side with few laps, but it was definitely a much better feeling in the car than previous races."

 http://en.espnf1.com...1i4Pgyxs6HoD.99

Edited by ollebompa, 14 May 2014 - 19:38.


#1966 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:41

I wonder where AMuS got their info about the chassis from? Here's what Seb himself said today:

 

Wonder why they are being so cagey about it. Why can't they just come out and say Seb is having trouble adjusting to the changes. It's perfectly understandable. Some drivers adapt to new cars much quicker than others.



#1967 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:45

People always want to believe that SV is angered and jealous of Dan's performance when it's probably more correct to say that he is instead intrigued by it seeing as he doesn't know what he's doing wrong. I'm not surprised that they get along at all and will be very surprised if things ever get frosty between the two.

 

In that article I quoted above, Daniel says that Sebastian congratulates him after every race for his performance and they get along well.

 

However, that does not mean Sebastian is content with their relative positions on track, according to FOSV FB page, Sebastian is not happy about that: 

 

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

 

https://www.facebook...8981426/?type=1


Edited by bourbon, 14 May 2014 - 19:53.


#1968 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 14 May 2014 - 19:48

According to FOSV FB page, he isn't happy about it and he does know what to do about it: 

 

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

 

https://www.facebook...8981426/?type=1

 

A facebook post with no attribution?

 

No thanks.



#1969 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 20:09

A facebook post with no attribution?

 

No thanks.

 

I revised my post because we were speaking of different things.  You were speaking of performance and I was referring to relative positions on track.

 

I'll post attribution when it is added.  It eventually posts.


Edited by bourbon, 14 May 2014 - 20:28.


#1970 tghik

tghik
  • Member

  • 307 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 23:01

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

A lot of BS, he was blaming the DRS not functionning, the loss of power, gearbox, then even sitting in Ric's car to see if there are any differences and finally change the chassis "just to not leave any stones unturned"  ....... and now he says he knew why it was .... give me a break



#1971 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,445 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 14 May 2014 - 23:23

A lot of BS, he was blaming the DRS not functionning, the loss of power, gearbox, then even sitting in Ric's car to see if there are any differences and finally change the chassis "just to not leave any stones unturned"  ....... and now he says he knew why it was .... give me a break

 

Because he had this troubles, you know, confirmed by Red Bull, but he also did not have the feel for the car, both things do not exclude each other, to call it BS. When did he sit in Dan's car, never heard of this, do you making this up? Fact is Sebastian had his fair share of troubles with his car and did not have the feeling for the brakes. If  he comes out and says he did not perform to his best, why is this BS. Both (car troubles, not performing 100%) could be/will be the truth. But we know you were you stand. 


Edited by 1Devil1, 14 May 2014 - 23:24.


#1972 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 May 2014 - 23:56

A lot of BS, he was blaming the DRS not functionning, the loss of power, gearbox, then even sitting in Ric's car to see if there are any differences and finally change the chassis "just to not leave any stones unturned"  ....... and now he says he knew why it was .... give me a break

 

He didn't say any of that - you did.  He said he knew why he was behind Daniel (because of his issues, reliability, etc.) and he knew how to end it (fix all that, whatever it takes). 

 

No idea why you are interpreting him to mean he knew exactly what the problem was and decided not to fix it - or not to share the information with his crew so it could be fixed.   I am sorry, but that interpretation makes no sense.  No driver would do that - that would be stupid.

 

The point I wished to stress was that he was not happy trailing his teammate, but that is not his first priority - challenging the Macca's is his point of focus.  I of course agree 100% because I have been repeating this for several pages now.  Seb beating Daniel to 3rd and 4th - and in fact, the teammate battle - while interesting and makes for fun discussions, is not the point of focus for the team and drivers at the moment. 


Edited by bourbon, 14 May 2014 - 23:57.


#1973 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:25

Guys, that SV quote...I still haven't seen an official source. Does anybody have one?



#1974 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 1,825 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:09

I doubt it.

Doesn't sound like something Seb would say. And it was just posted on facebook with no source.



#1975 Powerslave

Powerslave
  • New Member

  • 16 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:21

In that article I quoted above, Daniel says that Sebastian congratulates him after every race for his performance and they get along well.

 

However, that does not mean Sebastian is content with their relative positions on track, according to FOSV FB page, Sebastian is not happy about that: 

 

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

 

https://www.facebook...8981426/?type=1

 

Sounds like he's saying once they are in front of the mercs and running in clear air I will take care of Daniel by ordering him not to overtake. Bit like the last few years...hmms



#1976 repete

repete
  • Member

  • 182 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:23

Sounds like he's saying once they are in front of the mercs and running in clear air I will take care of Daniel by ordering him not to overtake. Bit like the last few years...hmms

sounds nothing like that, you has quite the imagination.



#1977 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 15 May 2014 - 12:42

Not only that. The article in question could very well be fake

#1978 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:05

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/113967

 

Good news for Daniel.

 

I wonder if he could be getting offers from other teams. I could see for instance McLaren wanting a tallented second driver to go with Button.



#1979 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 1,825 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:01

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/113967

 

Good news for Daniel.

 

I wonder if he could be getting offers from other teams. I could see for instance McLaren wanting a tallented second driver to go with Button.

 

2nd driver?

Riccy would send button to the stud farm.



Advertisement

#1980 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:03

2nd driver?

Riccy would send button to the stud farm.

 

By second I literally just mean the team has two drivers.



#1981 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 1,825 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:15

Ah, fair enough.

 

You think they are going cold on magnussen?



#1982 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,353 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:25

Magnussen and Ricciardo obviously.

 

But Button is a Honda company man, so it would seem likely Honda would want Button.



#1983 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 4,707 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 16 May 2014 - 04:36

Or equally, why would DR want McLaren?

#1984 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 16 May 2014 - 05:58

You guys are like walking miles ahead of your boots. :D

 

Besides, Daniel would likely wish to stay at Red Bull - why not?  Everyone knows Seb will prolly be off to the red car team eventually.  At that point, assuming Daniel continues to do well, he will be settled in the team when Kvyat moves up.  A scary prospect...  not for Daniel and Daniil, for me, because I am also a Kvyat fan which means I will still have to deal with you lot! :p


Edited by bourbon, 16 May 2014 - 06:00.


#1985 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:54

Daniel wouldn't move from RBR. They are still the best team on the grid. This is their worst year in 5 years and they're still second fastest. Moving from RBR would be stupid. But I have no doubt any top team would be interested in Ricciardo at the moment, so it wouldn't surprise me if he had other offers which he would reject.



#1986 BCM

BCM
  • Member

  • 249 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:58

As long as RB have Newey and once Renault get their sh1t together, RB will be back at the front again.

 

You'd be mad as a driver to leave.

 

If Newey leaves, that's a whole different kettle of fish.



#1987 skc

skc
  • Member

  • 834 posts
  • Joined: April 13

Posted 16 May 2014 - 07:45

Ricciardo is a top, top driver so this is no surprise   :up:  :up:



#1988 W154

W154
  • Member

  • 321 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 16 May 2014 - 14:21

Or equally, why would DR want McLaren?

Maybe he would like a 650S for a company car rather than a Renault Clio / Infiniti blobmobile?

#1989 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 16 May 2014 - 23:13

A facebook post with no attribution?

 

No thanks.

 

Guys, that SV quote...I still haven't seen an official source. Does anybody have one?

 

Not only that. The article in question could very well be fake

 

Fans of SV only reprints - never makes quotes up and everything is attributed.  The fault is mine for not having the time to trawl through the posts for the article till now - but as promised I have found it.  Here you go:

 

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

http://www.auto-moto...mm-8362176.html

 

 

As you can see, it is a direct quote from Seb (translated).  In context, it is clear he merely means they must focus on Mercedes now and worry about the teammate battle later.   Seb states he is pissed that Daniel is in front - but it does not mention Dan's relative performance.  We have other articles with both Seb and Dan mentioning that Seb hasn't forgotten how to drive and that there were likely reasons for the pace differential.  I wouldn't say Seb was 'intrigued' by this, rather 'investigative.'  But maybe that is what you meant.


Edited by bourbon, 16 May 2014 - 23:26.


#1990 icecream

icecream
  • Member

  • 371 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:37

 

Vettel:  "Of course it pisses me off when Ricciardo is in front of me. But I knew why it was so and I knew how I could end it." 

"The first goal for us is to catch Mercedes. After that I will take care of Daniel. It would be wrong to use up all energy on that, just to be 3rd or 4th."

 

https://www.facebook...8981426/?type=1

 

but before he can catch the Mercedes, he will first need to pass the Red Bull in front of him   ;)



#1991 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:44

Vettel will of course say that Ricciardo is not the target, but as they always say the first driver you have to beat is your team mate. There was plenty of discussion prior to this season that Vettel has never really had a super strong driver in the same machinery by which to judge him. Now Ricciardo is not that super strong driver as he's entirely unproven but Vettel certainly won't be wanting to finish behind him.

 

While I'm sure Vettel's race pace will catch up to Daniel the decisive factor could be their one lap pace as even at Spain Vettel was on track to be out qualified by a decent margin yet again.



#1992 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:56

but before he can catch the Mercedes, he will first need to pass the Red Bull in front of him   ;)

 

Eye on the goal:  WDC title.   For some, it was over after race 1.   But Sebastian never gives up.  :up:



#1993 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,014 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:04

Vettel will of course say that Ricciardo is not the target, but as they always say the first driver you have to beat is your team mate. There was plenty of discussion prior to this season that Vettel has never really had a super strong driver in the same machinery by which to judge him. Now Ricciardo is not that super strong driver as he's entirely unproven but Vettel certainly won't be wanting to finish behind him.

 

While I'm sure Vettel's race pace will catch up to Daniel the decisive factor could be their one lap pace as even at Spain Vettel was on track to be out qualified by a decent margin yet again.

I was not among the people saying that Seb never had a super strong teammate in the same machinery, so you would have to discuss that with someone else. 

 

Imo, Mark had incredible 1 lap pace.  He beat Seb to pole during their time together.  He was also very good in race trim at times - he started off seasons stronger than Seb and in fact, led him throughout an entire season until the final race.  

 

I couldn't stomach the man's behavior and attitude while he was Seb's teammate, but Mark was a very strong driver - and contrary to popular opinion, Seb did not make him look ordinary.  Mark's performance curve was as expected in the sport - he was 37 when he left remember. 

 

Will Daniel be able to match Mark over time?  We'll see.



#1994 icecream

icecream
  • Member

  • 371 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:29

Eye on the goal:  WDC title.   For some, it was over after race 1.   But Sebastian never gives up.  :up:

 

and how many points did seb win by 2010 & 2012?   :)



#1995 KTownDevil

KTownDevil
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: February 14

Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:52

While I'm sure Vettel's race pace will catch up to Daniel the decisive factor could be their one lap pace as even at Spain Vettel was on track to be out qualified by a decent margin yet again.

Yeah, after missing both sessions on friday  :rolleyes:

 

btw he was faster in Q1 and was held up in Q2/S3.



#1996 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:48

Ahahah cracked chassis?

Way to reuse the same excuse. I find it vile they constantly have to downplay the efforts of one of their own team to please Vettel.

#1997 Exb

Exb
  • Member

  • 1,072 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 17 May 2014 - 13:30

Ahahah cracked chassis?
Way to reuse the same excuse. I find it vile they constantly have to downplay the efforts of one of their own team to please Vettel.


Where have you seen reports of a cracked chassis? There was news from German press at the start of the week that the chassis was bent but Red Bull denied that. I have only seen lots of praise from Red Bull about Ricciardo, they are obviously impressed with the fantastic job he is doing, I can't understand why anybody wouldn't be - even if the other car had problems it doesn't take away from What Daniel has done or in anyway suggest Vettel would have finished ahead with trouble free weekends anyway.
 

"I cannot speak highly enough of what Daniel has done in the first five races," said Red Bull team boss Horner. "He has done a great job and is so calm in the car. He continues to impress us with his speed and his approach. "He is enjoying what he is doing and you never see him not smiling. It is a pleasure to have him in the team."

http://www.gpupdate....rned-2015-seat/

I really don't see the need for people to constantly be putting the knife in to drivers that are not their favourite, to be fair this thread is one of the better ones, the Kimi/Fernando one just scares me and I haven't ventured into the Lewis one in a long time. If the drivers were as bad as their critics would have us believe I would be able to do a better job in those F1 cars than they do :mad: - anyway angry OT rant over, I'm off out to enjoy the sunshine :cool: 



#1998 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 2,838 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 17 May 2014 - 14:40

2nd driver?

Riccy would send button to the stud farm.

Not even sure what "stud farm" even means

 

Some people said that Perez was going to overshadow Button. .Button is a lot better than some give him credit for. Average drivers do not win outscore Lewis Hamilton over a full campaign, regardless of what form Lewis is in.

 

Since the first race weekend, Button has also given K-Mag a bit of a booting. D.R has been impressive, but he has not convinced me that he could 100% beat Jenson as teammates over a full campaign.

 

Button gets a rough deal from some.



#1999 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 1,355 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 17 May 2014 - 14:57

I was not among the people saying that Seb never had a super strong teammate in the same machinery, so you would have to discuss that with someone else. 

 

Imo, Mark had incredible 1 lap pace.  He beat Seb to pole during their time together.  He was also very good in race trim at times - he started off seasons stronger than Seb and in fact, led him throughout an entire season until the final race.  

 

I couldn't stomach the man's behavior and attitude while he was Seb's teammate, but Mark was a very strong driver - and contrary to popular opinion, Seb did not make him look ordinary.  Mark's performance curve was as expected in the sport - he was 37 when he left remember. 

 

Will Daniel be able to match Mark over time?  We'll see.

 

Of course Sebastian fans would never point out he's never had strong team mates. But its true, he hasn't. He has never faced an Alonso or a Hamilton. Mark in his prime was fast but inconsistent, but by the time Red Bull / Seb machine got going in 2011 Mark was past that speed peak. How would he go even against a B driver like Rosberg? How would he go against a Di Resta or a Huleknberg?

 

Mark tried for years to beat Seb and couldn't manage it, Daniel came into the team and done it straight away.

 

One of the main themes going into this season would be how Vettel would go against a young team mate and so far it seems Daniel is quite obviously the match for him, so far anyway.


Edited by Thomas99, 17 May 2014 - 15:04.


Advertisement

#2000 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 2,838 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 17 May 2014 - 15:20

 

Mark tried for years to beat Seb and couldn't manage it, Daniel came into the team and done it straight away.

Steady on there.

 

Whilst there was a gulf in performance between Seb and Webber that started around mid-2010 (before that they were equal in 2 car finishes). Webber in early 2012 did have a similar amount of success against Seb that D,R has had so far this year. At least in accordance to raw stats

 

So far in the first 5 races of 2014, D.R has finished ahead of Seb in 2 car finishes 3 times. D.R has beaten Seb 4-1 in qualifying so far

 

In the first 6 races of 2012, Webber finished ahead of Seb in 2 car finishes 3 times. Webber also beat Seb 4-2 in qualifying during this period. Webber also held a points lead over Seb at this stage.

 

2012 ended with Seb convincingly beating Webber overall, despite Webber's strong start

 

It is premature to say that D.R is having more success than Webber ever had. In 2009, Webber matched Seb in 2 car finishes over a entire season. It remains to be seen if D.R can be as competitive over a entire campaign.

 

D.R has already had more success over Seb in 2014 than Webber managed over the entire 2011 and 2013 seasons combined. But Webber was a lot more competitive with Seb than people remember. Webber was a decent driver up until around 2010.


Edited by sennafan24, 17 May 2014 - 15:28.