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Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas 2014


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#1 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 15:11

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Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas

 

Very much looking forward to this battle. The experienced and revitalized Massa against the young gun Valtteri Bottas, whom they call Raikkonen's little brother. What can we expect from this battle this season?

 

Early signs are looking like it will be as much of a cracker as the Hamilton vs Rosberg battle. I for one am looking forward to this battle and expect Massa to have the edge slightly over a full season, due to his experience.


Edited by D.M.N., 14 March 2014 - 15:18.


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#2 D.M.N.

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 15:15

I'm looking forward to this one, as a big Massa fan myself. I think he has a point to prove as well after his Ferrari days, and the Williams looks relatively competitive, although it is difficult to tell if they could be knocking on the door of the big teams as FP2 did look slightly sluggish.

 

Bottas is make or break this season, a great season and the McLaren's and Ferrari's of this world, but a bad season could see him dumped. Massa is a good team mate for him though, and I hope the combo works well.  :up:



#3 Kingshark

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 16:34

Bottas will win I think. At this point in his career, he will only improve, while Massa's best years are past him.

 

With that being said, both Massa and Bottas strike me as drivers who are better over one lap than across a race distance.



#4 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 16:37

239004.jpg238999.jpg

Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas

 

Very much looking forward to this battle. The experienced and revitalized Massa against the young gun Valtteri Bottas, whom they call Raikkonen's little brother. What can we expect from this battle this season?

 

Early signs are looking like it will be as much of a cracker as the Hamilton vs Rosberg battle. I for one am looking forward to this battle and expect Massa to have the edge slightly over a full season, due to his experience.

 

Can I say, as a side-note, that the photographer that was hired for the new suits sucks big time? Not only has he made Massa look more depressed than he is in earlier posted pictures, he also has used undimmed, unreflected light from the bottom... Bottas looks genuinely bald, Massa genuinely scared!



#5 bub

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 16:44

This is an interesting battle because there are unknowns with both drivers. How good is Bottas and how good is Massa at this point in his career?

I predict Massa will be somewhat rejuvenated due to the fresh start at Williams and that Bottas will turn out to be a very solid driver. I think it will be competitive but with Bottas being just a little too much for Massa. Reliability etc could obviously have an impact.



#6 darkkis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:25

Well... Massa won quali, barely. Still very good job from Valtteri, considering he missed FP3..



#7 Anderis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:28

They were on different tyres in Q3, I wouldn't read too much perofmance-wise from this weekend so far.



#8 darkkis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:29

They were on different tyres in Q3, I wouldn't read too much perofmance-wise from this weekend so far.

They were? Well that explains it quite a lot then.. :drunk: Inter tyres were definitely a wrong call though.



#9 Francesc

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:32

They were on different tyres in Q3, I wouldn't read too much perofmance-wise from this weekend so far.

 

Both were on inters.



#10 Anderis

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 07:41

Both were on inters.

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May it be the wrong graphichs, though.



#11 Okyo

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:12

 

May it be the wrong graphichs, though.

The official timing says they were both on inters. Also as i followed it, Bottas did pit at the end to change tires for the final run, just after two laps with wets. They couldn't have been worn out, so seems logical that he did change his tires.



#12 Vesuvius

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:14

I Didnt see Bottas coming in in the end even if I followed live timing (maybe I missed it?) however he used inters until that and his best time was done on inters.

#13 Okyo

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 08:28

I Didnt see Bottas coming in in the end even if I followed live timing (maybe I missed it?) however he used inters until that and his best time was done on inters.

Rechecked it (downloaded the quali on the official timing app). He started off Q3 with inters (might be used ones), then pitted for new wets, made his 48:1 lap, at about 4 mins left till the end, he pitted for new inters as half of the top 10 was pitting. He didn't even manage to beat his wet tire lap time. Massa managed to barely beat Bottas wet tire lap time with inters, which shows that it was 'almost' time for the inters. Maybe an extra lap or two could have been spot on.

So yeah Anderis, those two times were set on different tires.


Edited by Okyo, 15 March 2014 - 08:35.


#14 bub

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 16:48

Bottas looked very impressive apart from one mistake. Massa was just unlucky. The car looked good.



#15 HeadFirst

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 00:48

I think Bottas showed today the very element that Massa has been lacking in recent years ....... fight.



#16 Jimisgod

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:59

Looking at Bottas today he just got on with it despite issues. Massa just whinges. I think Bottas will have him mentallly.

#17 meister

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:34

Massa out qualified Bottas first race and still getting bashed? How about giving him a chance. You can't fight driving a go cart, as Massa has last 4 years, I bet we will see lots of impressive drives from Massa in that Williams. 


Edited by meister, 17 March 2014 - 04:36.


#18 teejay

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 06:47

A go kart that his team mate nearly took to a wdc



#19 Okyo

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 16:02

Not entirely sure what's the deal with some bashing Massa. So far, when we had a chance to compare them at least at something, he was better than Bottas. I mean the qualifying of course. Beyond that we can't really say anything. Wait a week more, might get a lil bit clearer picture.



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#20 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 14:53

I was disappointed in Massa's driving because he had an opportunity to pass Magnussen early in the race when the McLaren driver damaged his front wing and Button towards the latter stages.  On both occasions he failed to capitalise on the opportunity.



#21 bub

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 23:15

I'll call Malaysia a draw. Massa won qualifying again and finished the race in front but Bottas looked quicker in the race.



#22 Anderis

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:14

First two race weekends of the season were not very conclusive when it comes to this battle. I'm curious to see who will come out on top in dry qualifying session.



#23 AlexanderF1

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:28

I was disappointed in Massa's driving because he had an opportunity to pass Magnussen early in the race when the McLaren driver damaged his front wing and Button towards the latter stages.  On both occasions he failed to capitalise on the opportunity.

not really the mclaren was not slow on the straights and we dont know what engine mode they were running(bottas did pass mag later but but it could have been down to engine modes. massa had once chance to pass button but button defended heavily into t1

 

First two race weekends of the season were not very conclusive when it comes to this battle. I'm curious to see who will come out on top in dry qualifying session.

and also massa didnt do the aus gp race(basicly) bahrain is going to be interesting. i think we are going to be p3 and p4 in quali



#24 Mart280

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:35

I might pop down the bookies and see what the odds are for a freak rainstorm at the start of Q3 in Bahrain, I think Frank must have run over a black cat back at the factory or something, if it wasnt for bad luck this team would have no luck at all :D Seriously though I'm another one really looking forward to this weekend from a Team Willy point of view, it would be fantastic if the last podium spot - assuming Merc run away at the front - was a straight fight between Felipe and Valtteri, this is F1 though so nothing can be taken for granted.



#25 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 17:36

I was disappointed in Massa's driving because he had an opportunity to pass Magnussen early in the race when the McLaren driver damaged his front wing and Button towards the latter stages.  On both occasions he failed to capitalise on the opportunity.

That's Massa for ya. Failing to capitalize on opportunities is what he does best.

#26 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 18:20

First two race weekends of the season were not very conclusive when it comes to this battle. I'm curious to see who will come out on top in dry qualifying session.

Massa still looks quicker over one lap, whilst Bottas looks to have an edge in race trim. Though I still expect Massa to beat Bottas on points in the championship.


Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 03 April 2014 - 18:31.


#27 RubalSher

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 19:36

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#28 darkkis

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:33

Ok so qualifying 2-1 to Massa but Bottas getting there now. It was first dry qualifying after all!



#29 spacekid

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:52

First clean quali of the season goes to Bottas. Good job from him to get 4th on merit. I'm expecting both Mercs to clear off into the distance tomorrow, i think we'll get a really good idea of Bottas race pace tomorrow. Massa has left himself with rather more to do. Let's see if he can impress me with his overtaking skills to catch up to his team mate.

#30 Timantti

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 16:52

Massa has been beaten my most of his teammates, so I expect Bottas will as well. If he doesn't, then we seriously have to reconsider his status as an upcoming star.



#31 Dzeidzei

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:40

Massa still looks quicker over one lap, whilst Bottas looks to have an edge in race trim. Though I still expect Massa to beat Bottas on points in the championship.

 

Could quote a certain Ronald Reagan: "You counted wrong."



#32 Mauseri

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:49

Massa still looks quicker over one lap, whilst Bottas looks to have an edge in race trim. Though I still expect Massa to beat Bottas on points in the championship.

I don't know, last year Bottas was better in qualifying than race in my opinion, and Massa has always been too. It is clear Bottas has to be ahead of Massa more often than not if he is to have a long F1 career. If Massa can hold him all season he is not going to be a threat to WDC drivers.


Edited by Mauseri, 05 April 2014 - 18:49.


#33 spacekid

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:08

I don't know, last year Bottas was better in qualifying than race in my opinion, and Massa has always been too. It is clear Bottas has to be ahead of Massa more often than not if he is to have a long F1 career. If Massa can hold him all season he is not going to be a threat to WDC drivers.


It's tough to tell - last years Williams was pretty poor in races. You may well be right, but I think a better race car will give a fairer account of Bottas' abilities.

Totally agree with your second point. What an ignomious ending for our nearly WDC - as a yardstick for potential or mediocrity.

#34 discover23

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:34

Massa has been beaten my most of his teammates, .

That is not quite acurate.

#35 bernardv

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:34

Massa has been beaten my most of his teammates, so I expect Bottas will as well. If he doesn't, then we seriously have to reconsider his status as an upcoming star.

Schumi, Alonso and ...?



#36 Anderis

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:53

Schumi, Alonso and ...?

Heidfeld, Fisichella. That's enough to make it 4 out of 6- more than a half.  ;)


Edited by Anderis, 05 April 2014 - 21:54.


#37 AlexanderF1

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:01

here are massa and bottas best laps sector times from quali.

 

massa (1st run)

29.819 (5)   40.998 (8)   23.580 (7)

 

bottas(2nd run)

29.898 (8) 40.711 (4) 23.580 (7) 

 

very close. i think massa said he locked up and got oversteer in run 1. and what happened in his 2nd run?

i think massa could have outqualified bottas. but bottas got p3 on grid and massa p7. tomoro will be a real fight between williams mclaren and force india. hope massa and bottas get good starts.  



#38 bub

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:23

Impressive performance from Bottas because Massa is still a good qualifier. Massa didn't have a great lap but even if he had, I don't think he would have beaten Bottas today. 

Going to be interesting to see how they both get on in the race because although they have a good car, there are also some good cars and drivers around them.



#39 darkkis

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:27

here are massa and bottas best laps sector times from quali.

 

massa (1st run)

29.819 (5)   40.998 (8)   23.580 (7)

 

bottas(2nd run)

29.898 (8) 40.711 (4) 23.580 (7) 

 

very close. i think massa said he locked up and got oversteer in run 1. and what happened in his 2nd run?

i think massa could have outqualified bottas. but bottas got p3 on grid and massa p7. tomoro will be a real fight between williams mclaren and force india. hope massa and bottas get good starts.  

Why to compare the first and second run when Bottas' first run was actually the faster one?

 

Bottas' fastest lap was blistering, I don't think that Massa stood a chance there.


Edited by darkkis, 05 April 2014 - 22:27.


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#40 AlexanderF1

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:40

ok i didnt realise that bottas didnt go quicker at the end. so both drivers bottled thier second run basicly.  



#41 Mauseri

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 22:49

Heidfeld, Fisichella. That's enough to make it 4 out of 6- more than a half.  ;)

And the two of them, Villeneuve and Kimi, both complained Massa's qualifying fuel loads and actually showed equal if not better race pace.



#42 darkkis

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 23:12

ok i didnt realise that bottas didnt go quicker at the end. so both drivers bottled thier second run basicly.  

Yes, or the track temperature fell, and times with it. I'm sure pretty much no one improved in the end.


Edited by darkkis, 06 April 2014 - 09:28.


#43 Ickx

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 09:12

here are massa and bottas best laps sector times from quali.

 

massa (1st run)

29.819 (5)   40.998 (8)   23.580 (7)

 

bottas(2nd run)

29.898 (8) 40.711 (4) 23.580 (7) 

 

very close. i think massa said he locked up and got oversteer in run 1. and what happened in his 2nd run?

i think massa could have outqualified bottas. but bottas got p3 on grid and massa p7. tomoro will be a real fight between williams mclaren and force india. hope massa and bottas get good starts.  

I wouldn’t say it is safe to say but it is certainly worth considering that if Massa had been faster than Bottas he could have outqualified him. These things are hard to judge though as there are a large amount of parameters to consider and the cars are very close, but it would have helped if he was faster. 



#44 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:10

felipe was better today



#45 darkkis

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:14

Bottas had a horrible, horrible start today, pretty much lost to Massa because of the start. Wasted tyres behind the cars while Massa had free air. Safety car didn't help either, but that's racing.



#46 Wander

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:15

Slightly. A better finish was once again on the cards for both drivers, but small things add up.



#47 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:17

Bottas had a horrible, horrible start today, pretty much lost to Massa because of the start. Wasted tyres behind the cars while Massa had free air. Safety car didn't help either, but that's racing.

there's 2 sides to that. he always got the undercut and massa had to catch him and attempt to pass in the stint..then fall back



#48 Okyo

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:17

Brilliant start, held up twice by Bottas with a free track in front of him and making the FI catch up. If it hadn't been for the last weeks 'incident' we would have seen a team order there. So Massa wins on performance category through out the race.

Though he didn't manage to make the move on Vettel stick, not really many managed to make any moves stick after the SC. Can recall only Ricciardo managing to get past Hulkenberg. Bottas was struggling to overtake even the Ferrari and RBR with dead tires. What happened there at the end of the straight when he went off?

Overall, Massa did better today. Both drivers did decent, though could have been better.

Sad about the bad SC timing. Also the car didn't really seem to make the tires last. Bottas seemed to struggle at that.
 


Edited by Okyo, 06 April 2014 - 17:19.


#49 bernardv

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:19

felipe was better today

I'd add that he was better by not so small a margin as it appeared at the end. Massa lost  a lot of time to Botas during first and second pit stop (was that bad luck or team favoritism?), he was also held up by Botas at one point. All in all, he beat him fair and square. Thanks god the radio was more or less silent this time.



#50 skinnyman

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:28

Felipe trounced Bottas today, but as usual since Ferrari days was always in the pits at the wrong time and had to make up the same gap over and over again.