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Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas 2014


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#51 SPBHM

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:34

yes, Massa was much better on soft tyres, on hards it looked like Bottas was a little better.

Massa lost more time on bad stops/strategy, but got the preference for the last stop.


Edited by SPBHM, 06 April 2014 - 17:35.


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#52 Ickx

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:35

Kind of like last time where Massa won time during  the stops. This time Massa was faster all the time. Bad day for williams though, i had expected a lot mor from them. 



#53 spacekid

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:39

I'd add that he was better by not so small a margin as it appeared at the end. Massa lost a lot of time to Botas during first and second pit stop (was that bad luck or team favoritism?), he was also held up by Botas at one point. All in all, he beat him fair and square. Thanks god the radio was more or less silent this time.


It was his own fault for his childish behaviour in Malaysia.

Williams should have moved Bottas out of the way, except now of course they can't. There is a difference between favouring one driver over the other for the win, and effective management of the cars strategy by the team, something Massa has made sure won't happen now.

Compare and contrast with RBs message to Seb 'Daniel is faster than you'. No fuss, no tears, just a pragmatic and professional decision.

#54 SPBHM

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:45

Compare and contrast with RBs message to Seb 'Daniel is faster than you'. No fuss, no tears, just a pragmatic and professional decision.

 

different tyre strategies, unlike Williams which has been running always the same... not comparable.


Edited by SPBHM, 06 April 2014 - 17:45.


#55 mkoscevic

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:54

Williams did a poor job with Massa's strategy today.



#56 darkkis

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:55

Williams did a poor job with Massa's strategy today.

Same with Bottas in Malaysia. It's even now.



#57 Flyhigh

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:58

Looking at this race you can;t help but conclude that Williams is not very good with strategy. You have Massa pitting 4th the first time, while his team mate was in 6th and further back. Massa pits two times and find himself the first time 4 seconds behind Bottas and the second stop 8 seconds behind Bottas, yet he he was in much better shape until pits stop got involved, what gives?

Unless they were trying a 2 stop strategy with Massa, pitting early was always going to be the best strategy, pitting as soon as tyre droped, that is what they did with Bottas, but for some reason with Felipe, he would stay 3-4 laps losing a lot of time. Result was he could have be in the fight for podium, but ended up 7.  



#58 Flyhigh

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 18:02

Same with Bottas in Malaysia. It's even now.

I agree, I wouldn't even mind if they had given a the better strategy to Bottas in Malasya because I felt he was slightly faster than Felipe there, even though track wise Felipe had the advantage from the start there. In anycase, here Felipe had the track advantage and was faster than they do the best strategy to Bottas. And Smedley was supposed to be an improvement? Come on Williams. 



#59 madrocker

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:36

Questionable strategy from Williams again.

 

Malaysia - Felipe had track position but Bottas was faster -> Felipe got pit preference.

Bahrain - Felipe had track position and was faster -> Bottas got pit preference.

 

Can't see the logic from where I am standing.



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#60 mkoscevic

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:59

Apparently, they switched Massa to a different strategy mid-race due to tyre degradation issues.

 

Massa: "We were in a good position and fighting but sadly the tyre degradation was worse than we expected."

 

Massa is usually not very gentle with the tyres so i assume it all summed up for the unplanned 3-stop strategy.

 

Smedley: "The team worked very well together from strategy to pitstops, I’m very impressed with the quality of people here."

 

Obviously he just got there and it's all nice and cheerful so i can understand those overly positive comments, but IIRC strategy is a weak point of Williams race operations for quite some time.



#61 RubalSher

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:32

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#62 Mauseri

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:18

Questionable strategy from Williams again.

 

Malaysia - Felipe had track position but Bottas was faster -> Felipe got pit preference.

Bahrain - Felipe had track position and was faster -> Bottas got pit preference.

 

Can't see the logic from where I am standing.

Yeah, and the drivers are shooting themselves in the foot too since not letting faster teammate by. But cannot blame Bottas for not doing it after Massa didn't.

 

At least Williams reacted in the last stop to let Massa pit first, but at that time it was too late and the drivers finished in consecutive and weak positions anyway.


Edited by Mauseri, 06 April 2014 - 21:20.


#63 Flyhigh

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:27

Yeah, and the drivers are shooting themselves in the foot too since not letting faster teammate by. But cannot blame Bottas for not doing it after Massa didn't.

Even though I was hoping for a better result from Massa today, I much prefer this way, quiet radio. The reason this happen was because of the mistake Williams made with strategy for Massa, trying to have him pit only twice, not the small hold up that happen on track and was insignificant results wise.    



#64 paulogman

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:34

I'm so happy to be disappointed with two points scoring positions for the williams team.

lacking rear downforce and high tyre degradation...

but that merc engine is a monster!



#65 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:41

the only mistake williams did was to allow bottas to jump massa at the 1st stop when massa was both faster and in quite in front. however, that's racing. 

i doubt massa and bottas have problems after malaysia. that was a poor team handled situation by the team



#66 coppilcus

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 22:21

It's a wonderful thing to see Williams fighting on the upper half of the grid...

#67 bub

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 23:11

Nice performance from Massa and what a launch off the grid :eek: . 


Edited by bub, 07 April 2014 - 15:35.


#68 discover23

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:04

I thought Massa was damaged goods after the accident .
Oh wait..

#69 bernardv

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:19

Qualifying 3:1, but very close as usual.


Edited by bernardv, 19 April 2014 - 08:19.


#70 darkkis

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 08:58

Bottas made his hotlap a lot earlier, Massa was last across the line so obviously it was easier for him to improve.



#71 search

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:41

Bottas made his hotlap a lot earlier, Massa was last across the line so obviously it was easier for him to improve.

 

if that replay on SkySports was from Bottas fastest ap, then he lost something like a second by running wide in the final corner



#72 Okyo

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 12:53

Race is what counts, though happy that we seem on top of our wet track problems.



#73 darkkis

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 13:05

if that replay on SkySports was from Bottas fastest ap, then he lost something like a second by running wide in the final corner

Really? I missed that :/



#74 Thomas99

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 13:08

Im not really sure who i'd pick to win this year. They're both very even.



#75 search

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 15:08

Really? I missed that :/

 

I am not sure myself, they showed him going very wide in the final corner during the post race analysis, I was doing something else besides, didn't see if it was during the final lap or not



#76 bub

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 15:28

Good job by both drivers. The car performance in these conditions seems to have improved. Well done Massa to qualify ahead again.



#77 RubalSher

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:38

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#78 darkkis

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:43

http://en.mclarenf-1...altteri Bottas

 

I don't know if it is fair to compare the gap this way, but Massa was _DEAD SLOW_ looking at the lap times. And that optimistic start charge...



#79 Wander

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:01

http://en.mclarenf-1...altteri Bottas

 

I don't know if it is fair to compare the gap this way, but Massa was _DEAD SLOW_ looking at the lap times. And that optimistic start charge...

 

It's hard to say, but Massa may have just given up and cruised to the finish as he wouldn't have made it to the points even if he had been 30 seconds up the road (the amount of time he lost to Bottas after the failed pit stop).

 

E: Massa was 36.1 seconds behind 10th placed Kvyat at the finish for those interested.

 

E2: Scrap that, Massa lost 40 seconds to Bottas (my math sucks). He might have made it to 10th place by pushing as hard as Valtteri, but then again it would have required a lot of overtakes.


Edited by Wander, 20 April 2014 - 12:06.


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#80 KavB

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:03

It's hard to say, but Massa may have just given up and cruised to the finish as he wouldn't have made it to the points even if he had been 30 seconds up the road (the amount of time he lost to Bottas after the failed pit stop).

Massa does have a tendency to drop off quite a lot when he drops down the field through no fault of his own. Singapore 2008 really highlighted that for me.

 

It's a shame for Felipe. He's performed better than Bottas so far but the points aren't reflecting this. 



#81 Seanspeed

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:06

Massa does have a tendency to drop off quite a lot when he drops down the field through no fault of his own. Singapore 2008 really highlighted that for me.
 
It's a shame for Felipe. He's performed better than Bottas so far but the points aren't reflecting this.

Yep. Stick Massa in an adverse situation and he usually always disappoints.

#82 darkkis

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 12:27

Massa does have a tendency to drop off quite a lot when he drops down the field through no fault of his own. Singapore 2008 really highlighted that for me.

 

It's a shame for Felipe. He's performed better than Bottas so far but the points aren't reflecting this. 

Still doesn't explain his terrible first stint.



#83 Okyo

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 15:13

Still doesn't explain his terrible first stint.

Maybe damage on the car or whatever, who knows. Not really a race to decide who was better. Though am happy with Massa's starts. Had a rocket one, just blocked by a RedBull at then the incident with Alonso. Makes me a lil happier that i can hope for good things in the first few laps from him. Seems it wasn't the Ferrari that let him do good starts.

Didn't really get the whole last laps bit with Bottas. Why did the team wait so long, when the car was quite quicker? Too little time, might just made it past if had a few more laps.



#84 Ickx

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 15:49

...

Didn't really get the whole last laps bit with Bottas. Why did the team wait so long, when the car was quite quicker? Too little time, might just made it past if had a few more laps.

 

I thought it was strange. Before the stop he slowly closed the gap and then let it grow to three seconds after the last stop and then just did nothing before the closing laps when it was obviously too late. Might have been to save fuel or something? Bottas, just as Rosberg, was driving with no telemetry. 



#85 Francesc

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 18:03

Still doesn't explain his terrible first stint.

 

"We need to check the car to see if something has happened because we had a lot of understeer after because I also flew a bit.



#86 darkkis

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 18:55

Maybe damage on the car or whatever, who knows. Not really a race to decide who was better. Though am happy with Massa's starts. Had a rocket one, just blocked by a RedBull at then the incident with Alonso. Makes me a lil happier that i can hope for good things in the first few laps from him. Seems it wasn't the Ferrari that let him do good starts.

Didn't really get the whole last laps bit with Bottas. Why did the team wait so long, when the car was quite quicker? Too little time, might just made it past if had a few more laps.

Yeah, Valtteri didn't have a bad start either, but first corner was properly ruined by Rosberg hitting him.



#87 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 20:19

More lost opportunities again. Spain will suit them. Lets hope for no more blunders.

#88 bub

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 21:38

Bottas seemed to have a decent if unspectacular race. It's a pity Massa's race was ruined by that shambles of a pit stop as these two seem well matched so far. Could have been an interesting battle between them.


Edited by bub, 20 April 2014 - 21:52.


#89 coppilcus

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 21:40

Tough luck for Felipe today...

#90 motorhead

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 14:07

Bottas did really well today!



#91 kaisellgren

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 16:38

Bottas said to the Finnish media that due to lost practice 1 session and little other practice time, he was not entirely confident with the car, but started to get so throughout the qualifying and after the second last lap he felt good to go and then he blew the real deal which got him 4th. Would have been interesting to see how far Massa would've got without his mistake.



#92 bub

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 17:47

Fine lap by Bottas, very impressive. Apparently Massa made a mistake. This just goes to show how costly mistakes can be in F1.



#93 Mart280

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 18:21

It was refreshing to hear Massa admit it was his mistake and not come out with some glib excuse, his starts have been really good so lets hope to see him make a few places up at the start and also hope Alonso doesn't drive into him again :lol:  



#94 yr

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 14:21

Well done Bottas, that was propably maximum result with that car. :up:



#95 bushgold

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 14:42

One more anonymous race by Massa and the Brazilian financiers will want to get the rookie into that seat asap.



#96 Exb

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 14:46

Good drive from Bottas and finished well ahead of Massa on what seems to have been the slower strategy. More dropped points by Williams though as they looked clear 3rd best team and 3 stops may have kept Bottas ahead of Vettel. Massa a little disappointing unless he had a problem I missed.

#97 Molo19

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 14:52

One more anonymous race by Massa and the Brazilian financiers will want to get the rookie into that seat asap.

Now that's just silly. Massa has been improbably unlucky this season, even if he wasn't great this weekend.

 

Besides, Valtteri is a bafflingly under rated driver. I wouldn't bet against him beating his far more famous (and popular) compatriot in the same team.



#98 bub

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 18:55

Excellent performance from Bottas and a weekend to forget for Massa



#99 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 18:59

Now that's just silly. Massa has been improbably unlucky this season, even if he wasn't great this weekend.

 

Besides, Valtteri is a bafflingly under rated driver. I wouldn't bet against him beating his far more famous (and popular) compatriot in the same team.

Exactly. Massa was superior to Bottas this weekend until Q3 where he made an unfortunate mistake. And we all know in Spain overtaking isn't easy. If not for that mistake in Q3, Massa would have started 4th or 5th himself and his race would have been completely different.



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#100 Anderis

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 19:03

It's fair to say Massa has been fairly unlucky this season, but in Spain Bottas simply outclassed him. And that's after missing FP1 and not having upgrades on the car in FP2.