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Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas 2014


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#151 ZZei

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:02

Bottas was screwed so badly in the 2nd pitstop. Its like they decided, "we are stuck behind vettel, we better do something. How about a pitstop" It might have been ok'ish idea if he would have come out in clean air, but he was stuck behind all the traffic which was going even slower than the pack he was in before. Later Vettel etc join ahead of him as they've been going faster behind hulk than bottas behind three slower cars. Well played.

As when it comes to Massa, he was helped by RB reacting to Bottas pitstop and had the strategy to end up on podium. But as it is massa we're talking about, I wasnt even surprised he ended up destroying his own race.



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#152 kaisellgren

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:04

Perez have move to the left. Look at Perez car and the car in front of him, Perez was too much on the left. Massa did nothing wrong.

 

Perez was on the usual driving line and he was the one in front as well. Massa was simply a bit too naive and optimistic and took a dive and crashed into Perez. End of story.

 

The score is 40-18 in favour of Bottas after 7 races. I think its too far into the season to play the "But the other guy is just lucky"-card.

 

Yeah the "lucky card" is indeed getting worn out... besides, what do Massa's qualifying lock ups or race crashes have anything to do with luck? Massa was lucky today he did not kill Perez at those speeds...

 

I'm not absolutely sure what your point is, but he has outscored Massa much like Alonso did in 2012. The only difference of course being that Bottas doesn't get the preferential treatment like Alonso (nor the strategic sensibility of Ferrari).

 

There's another difference: Bottas is still a rookie while Alonso was an experienced two times champion.

 

Okay, Windsor works for Williams then? Never knew that.

 

Yes he has worked for Williams and Ferrari. He's a much better source than a random person in the Internet ;)



#153 Jackmancer

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:04

Massa now 11th in the championship, less than half Bottas' points.



#154 sopa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:11

So Bottas is criticized for the same thing as Heidfeld and other drivers have been - a "boring" driver. Unfortunately that's not a strong argument in evaluating a driver. If you have got speed and results, that's what matters.

 

However, I don't think Bottas is a great driver even if his points advantage over Massa is similar to what Alonso enjoyed. I think people may have a point neither driver has a strong racecraft in battles (we knew that about Massa anyway). Williams' messy strategies in tight upper midfield battles make it even harder to compare them. Generally they are close in qualifying and close in races. But I think if I had to place trust in a season-long battle in collecting points... I think I'd have a tad more trust in the consistency of Bottas. And it's showing, even if Massa has been more unlucky so far.



#155 Molo19

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:27

 

However, I don't think Bottas is a great driver even if his points advantage over Massa is similar to what Alonso enjoyed.

On one level I'm truly amazed by the expectations people seem to have for Bottas - I mean, his career in F1 started only last year and now outscoring Massa by more than a factor of two just doesn't quite cut it to some people. Despite having to lend his car to Felipe Nasr and Susie Wolff every now and again and Williams still underperforming at pit and strategy.

 

On another level I'm downright scared to think how it will be next year, let alone five years.


Edited by Molo19, 09 June 2014 - 15:35.


#156 darkkis

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:45

I agree with molo. Besides, what could've Bottas done better today? He started 4th, kept his teammate behind. Then his race was ruined by typical horrid williams tactics + brake problems which people seem to forget when judging his poor pace in the ending stages.

#157 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:51

Except Bottas nore Massa has the racecraft needed to do something nice with this good car. Someone like Alonso or Raikkonen would already have achieved podium finishes with it.



#158 darkkis

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 21:57

http://translate.goo...krA4AYxyzTQYmrA

Sheds some light.. unfortunately im on phone so google translate has to do.

#159 sopa

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:12

On one level I'm truly amazed by the expectations people seem to have for Bottas - I mean, his career in F1 started only last year and now outscoring Massa by more than a factor of two just doesn't quite cut it to some people. Despite having to borrow his car to Felipe Nasr and Susie Wolff every now and again and Williams still underperforming at pit and strategy.

 

On another level I'm downright scared to think how it will be next year, let alone five years.

 

Currently I don't see star-material in Bottas. At best he reminds a kind of a nearly-man like Coulthard, Barrichello, Fisichella, and others.

Fast, for sure, can have great days and speed, that's how he has started from 3rd and 4th on the grid in races. But the impression I get that in some phases during a race weekend he goes missing and that costs the ultimate results. Bahrain a good example. 3rd on the grid, was fast in quali. But during some phases of the race he was unconvincing and finished in 8th, even behind Massa. There have been more races like that, which create the overall impression.


Edited by sopa, 08 June 2014 - 23:14.


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#160 AlexanderF1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:35

what a race of highs and lows for both williams.

At start massa got a good exit out of t1 but bottas wouldn't budge into next corner.

 

yet again a slow pitstop for massa. i thought he did well to catch the group after that. i think they should have pitted massa earlier for the 2nd time if they knew he wouldnt be able to do 50laps on primes, but due to perez holding everyone up then this didn't lose massa as much time .

 

i think bottas should have let massa through straight away in last stint ( that in turn could have cost massa the win and also the perez incident might not have happened).  couldn't believe it when massa was doing 343kph and still couldn't get past vettel. as a massa fan i was gutted about the last lap(glad their ok, 27g!) but hopefully massa doesnt lose confidence because he looked really on it today in the 2nd half of the race. anyone else abit annoyed when we saw bottas wheel vibrating and it cut to the garage!


Edited by AlexanderF1, 08 June 2014 - 23:37.


#161 Shambolic

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 00:07

Massa was unlucky today, but the pitwall denied him a better chance of the win.

Being held up for so many laps by his team mate might be good for "no team orders" but it was idiotic for the potential result. The last stop seemed a bit of a vague indecision in light of that - Slap on the new tyres and go for it, or trundle on the old ones till the end. Instead it looked like slap on new rubber then remove any advantage from it within the team.

The Massa Perez shunt looked like a racing incident to me - Both drivers sometimes get a little too determined and this time it resulted in a trip to the barriers. Another time it might have been a classic overtake and a 2nd place for a rejuvenated Massa.

And the points difference - Let's not forget the points are now ridiculously awarded. In old terms it's closer to 16 - 7. A couple of crashes or mechanical failures whilst running in the upper midfield is all there is between them. Hardly crushing dominance from Bottas, or pathetic has been-ness from Massa.

#162 Kenstate

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 00:22

massa's first pitstop cost him 7 seconds. other than piss poor racecraft he showed at the end of the race, williams pit wall hasn't been very helpful to him either. he certainly had the pace to run with the leaders though.



#163 pingu666

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 00:26

i dont get why they pitted massa from the lead, either try to gap rosberg, or baby those tyres and hope



#164 sopa

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 07:43

i dont get why they pitted massa from the lead, either try to gap rosberg, or baby those tyres and hope

 

They pitted because otherwise it could have been like Alonso in 2012 - hopeless on the old tyres, losing positions left and right on the last few laps.

 

You can't take a gamble, because "at the moment it looks like fine and let's see what happens". Based on all the data they have to take tyre wear into account until the very last laps.


Edited by sopa, 09 June 2014 - 07:44.


#165 Francesc

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:21

BTW did anyone notice when Massa was side by side with Vettel on the long straight he was with his DRS closed?? That was a bad mistake, with his DRS he would have passed Vettel easily. :well:



#166 darkkis

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:36

I don't understand why it is Massa who gets all the sympathy when both drivers were screwed by bad tactics. In the end Massa had the better tactic and couldnt make the best of it

#167 Anderis

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:20

i think bottas should have let massa through straight away in last stint ( that in turn could have cost massa the win and also the perez incident might not have happened). 

I think he would've let him through much earlier if Massa didn't refuse to do the same in Malaysia. Now he is paying the price for the standards he has set by himself.

 

I hope people won't rate Bottas too harshly based on this race. He outqualified Massa and run comfortably ahead of him in 1st stint. Then he had the pit stop at the very wrong moment, problems with engine, problems with brakes etc.

 

What baffles me is that both Bottas and Massa were running ahead of Ricciardo early in the race and both didn't even found themselves in a serious run for a podium (well, maybe Massa had eventually, but I felt he wouldn't overtake the Red Bulls as long as they had DRS from Perez, and then in clear air Red Bull was also slightly faster IMO, based on what we've seen during the 1st stint). Williams have been consistently very poor on the pit wall and this race was another example of that. I think they're easily doing the worst job compared to their car of all teams since 2009.

 



#168 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 13:41

I don't understand why it is Massa who gets all the sympathy when both drivers were screwed by bad tactics. In the end Massa had the better tactic and couldnt make the best of it

Because Massa could have won the race, whilst Bottas was only heading for a P5 at most.



#169 kaisellgren

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:07

Except Bottas nore Massa has the racecraft needed to do something nice with this good car. Someone like Alonso or Raikkonen would already have achieved podium finishes with it.

 

I think you're right. Kimi or Fernando would've got a podium already. But of course Alonso has 10+ seasons in F1 whereas Bottas has 1 behind him. :)

 

Because Massa could have won the race, whilst Bottas was only heading for a P5 at most.

 

Could have? Gutierrez could have won the race.

 

He was unable to beat the Red Bulls and Mercedes and even Force India's (except maybe the very last laps when Perez's problems got worse). Seriously though, Massa was heading for P4 at best. Starting at grid position 5, finishing at 4, in front of his team mate due to Bottas' problems. It was an OK race from Massa, but winning would've required something special from him (not that crash-kind of special). Let's be realistic, neither of the Williams drivers had any chance for a win.


Edited by kaisellgren, 09 June 2014 - 16:09.


#170 ed24f1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:15

If Massa had had 10 more laps to overtake the pack - plus even better tyres as presumably some of their life was taken trying to overtake Bottas - he would have been able to be much more calculated and get through the pack. So in that sense, Williams' indecision cost Massa his best chance of the race.

 

As I think I said yesterday, the case for team orders was much much clearer here than in Sepang. In Sepang, their tyres were only 3/4 laps apart from memory, and by allowing the order, Bottas could only have passed one more car at best. Yesterday, the tyres were 12 laps different and by letting Massa past there was the opportunity for him to pass 5/6 cars.

 

But of course, the irony of Massa's stance coming back to bite him is particularly frustrating, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't let people past.



#171 kaisellgren

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:27

I totally agree with Otmar here

 

and more: http://www.auto-moto...ig-8397828.html

 

 

But of course, the irony of Massa's stance coming back to bite him is particularly frustrating, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't let people past.

 

Of course when in both cases it's all for Massa.  ;) -- you can't just expect to get favors for yourself and not give any to others. That's just sadly the case.


Edited by kaisellgren, 09 June 2014 - 16:28.


#172 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 16:57

I think you're right. Kimi or Fernando would've got a podium already. But of course Alonso has 10+ seasons in F1 whereas Bottas has 1 behind him. :)

 

 

Could have? Gutierrez could have won the race.

 

He was unable to beat the Red Bulls and Mercedes and even Force India's (except maybe the very last laps when Perez's problems got worse). Seriously though, Massa was heading for P4 at best. Starting at grid position 5, finishing at 4, in front of his team mate due to Bottas' problems. It was an OK race from Massa, but winning would've required something special from him (not that crash-kind of special). Let's be realistic, neither of the Williams drivers had any chance for a win.

If Bottas had let him through after his second stop straight away, he would have had more laps available to him to chase Hulkenberg and the top four.



#173 ed24f1

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 17:05

Of course when in both cases it's all for Massa.  ;) -- you can't just expect to get favors for yourself and not give any to others. That's just sadly the case.

 

Yes that is true if it was for example Hulk and Perez, but the situation in Sepang was far more psychologically loaded than a simple case or give and take considering Massa's history, which is why the irony comes in. All in all, Williams have handled both situations badly and hopefully they have learnt their lessons for the  future.



#174 Mauseri

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 19:10

All in all, Williams have handled both situations badly and hopefully they have learnt their lessons for the  future.

Williams seems to handle these situations badly always. Hard to see it change. Faster driver always wasting time behind the slower for selfish reasons. You should make the selfishness work for the best of the team.


Edited by Mauseri, 09 June 2014 - 19:11.


#175 sopa

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 19:25

Williams has long had a policy of letting drivers "race" or at least they have made such impression of themselves. So when drivers join, they sort of expect to have free hands to do whatever against their team-mates (except crash into them). So Massa and Bottas are reluctant in letting each other pass. Wasn't France 2003 a significant contributor to Montoya leaving, when he was told not to attack Ralf Schumacher for the lead? So as Williams has created an image of itself as a "free to race" team, they find it hard to act otherwise in practice.



#176 yr

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 13:06

If Bottas had let him through after his second stop straight away, he would have had more laps available to him to chase Hulkenberg and the top four.

 

Why should Bottas let Massa through? Massa was the one who demanded in Malaysia - first during the race when he was asked to move aside, then later in team meating - that there should be no team orders. He got what he asked for, so isnt he man enough to stand by his own demandings? Guess not, obviously he really is a pathetic person, how can he now ask team orders after setting the trend in post Malaysia meating that there will be "no team orders". Truly sad. I guess next time Bottas is behind him with better pace he will be yelling to radio to slow Bottas down and in the very next race if he is faster he will be on radio asking team to order Bottas giving him free pass...

 

I have totally lost every little bit of respect for Massa that I once had, he is beyond ridiculous.


Edited by yr, 10 June 2014 - 13:11.


#177 REDalert

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 17:02

Bottas fan? Massa has clearly been the faster driver so far this season, but a lot of circumstances in Bottas' favour have masked this.

Bottas clearly had worse strategy in Canada. But no way he was clearly slower.



#178 REDalert

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 17:11

 Bottas was nowhere today, he never does anything exciting, boring driver. 

 

 

Yes, he is nothing like Massa, Perez, Maldonado or Grosjean, those are way more exiting drivers. He brings his car over the finish line though.



#179 REDalert

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 17:29

A draw today as they're both useless. Neither can pass or take care of their tyres.. Even with a clear top-speed advantage they couldn't get past the high downforce, short-geared, Renault-powered Red-Bulls. Massa had traction problems out on the S/F straight but didn't once try something different, like a slower entence and an earlier exit. And at lest twice Massa tried to pass Vettel on the outside.WTF? Worst of all, both drivers seems to set themselves above the team. And the team let them get away with it.

And Bottas raised him self above the the team by doing ....?????????  He has obeyed every order what's thrown at him, his team mate is another story.



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#180 REDalert

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 17:40

Except Bottas nore Massa has the racecraft needed to do something nice with this good car. Someone like Alonso or Raikkonen would already have achieved podium finishes with it.

Both of those have 12 more years under their helmets too.. 

The fact that (semi rookie) Bottas is beating Massa almost as bad as Alonso did is more than enough to prove that Valtteri is the real thing! 



#181 KavB

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 22:57

Bottas is barely beating Massa, let alone by Alonso standards. Sure, the points table looks terrible for Felipe. But he has had awful luck this season. 



#182 pokerkid

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 03:45

I'm confused. I thought Massa was supposed to be washed up, damaged from his accident, and should have been sacked half way through 2012 for Perez, yet he seems to be matching his new highly rated team mate? I guess everyone was wrong then..



#183 Thomas99

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:04

I'm confused. I thought Massa was supposed to be washed up, damaged from his accident, and should have been sacked half way through 2012 for Perez, yet he seems to be matching his new highly rated team mate? I guess everyone was wrong then..

Its just the Alonso effect.



#184 f1RacingForever

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:19

I'm confused. I thought Massa was supposed to be washed up, damaged from his accident, and should have been sacked half way through 2012 for Perez, yet he seems to be matching his new highly rated team mate? I guess everyone was wrong then..

depends on how well you rate Bottas. He crashed in what many seem partly his fault. Hes just never really been able to get the job done when it matters most.



#185 garagetinkerer

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:21

I think you're right. Kimi or Fernando would've got a podium already. But of course Alonso has 10+ seasons in F1 whereas Bottas has 1 behind him. :)

 

 

Could have? Gutierrez could have won the race.

 

He was unable to beat the Red Bulls and Mercedes and even Force India's (except maybe the very last laps when Perez's problems got worse). Seriously though, Massa was heading for P4 at best. Starting at grid position 5, finishing at 4, in front of his team mate due to Bottas' problems. It was an OK race from Massa, but winning would've required something special from him (not that crash-kind of special). Let's be realistic, neither of the Williams drivers had any chance for a win.

Without the slow first stop, and had he not been stuck behind Bottas for as many laps, he would have easily challenged for the win, and most likely won. Assuming, both Mercedes' had crapped as they did.



#186 f1RacingForever

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 04:27

Without the slow first stop, and had he not been stuck behind Bottas for as many laps, he would have easily challenged for the win, and most likely won. Assuming, both Mercedes' had crapped as they did.

I cannot agree. It still would have required passing which is of course racecraft, massa's main weakness. As others have said, he couldn't pass Vettel despite been much quicker on the straights. What makes you think he could overtake a force India or Merc even?



#187 garagetinkerer

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 05:03

Bottas is good... but he's nothing special in my humble opinion, as he's usually bandied about. If he has a superlative car, it may hide that fact. However. for what it is worth, i feel that at best he's a solid midfielder. Occasional solid performance, but not much more to go about.

 

It is nothing but an instinct and years of watching this happen in the sport... but i feel Williams are settled on Bottas for whatever reason, and are backing him over Massa. I personally don't think that he was much better than Maldonado, nor he is showing himself to be better than Massa. Surely drivers develop, but i wonder if he will develop that much to be a potential champion. It may that i'm reading it wrong, but for what i can tell, Williams seem to be getting in their way now.

 

I cannot agree. It still would have required passing which is of course racecraft, massa's main weakness. As others have said, he couldn't pass Vettel despite been much quicker on the straights. What makes you think he could overtake a force India or Merc even?

The 7 sec pit stop was quite responsible for seeing Massa end where he did in traffic, behind Bottas and all. Had it not been for that, he would have had easily been ahead on track. What makes me think so? That time on tyres and fuel spent behind Bottas could have been spent chasing others down and that alone is worth its weight in gold.

 

Massa's reputably one of the toughest cars to overtake, and is known to be fair. Surely it is some race-craft. He has also executed some superb passes...  I personally feel that Williams had backed the wrong horse last year, and are backing the same wrong horse again to their detriment.



#188 Molo19

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 09:01

 i feel that at best he's a solid midfielder. Occasional solid performance, but not much more to go about.

 

It is nothing but an instinct and years of watching this happen in the sport...

That is a very convincing point, but let me ask you: what was your gut feeling about, say, Nico Rosberg in 2006-2007 or Daniel Ricciardo in 2012-2013? How about Alonso in 2001 when Tarso Marques beat him and he did not race the following season? Did you vision Vettel going on to win four consecutive titles in the coming seasons after retiring the first four races in 2008 and then finally finishing 17th in the fifth?



#189 Ze Bum

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 13:32

The 7 sec pit stop was quite responsible for seeing Massa end where he did in traffic, behind Bottas and all. Had it not been for that, he would have had easily been ahead on track. What makes me think so? That time on tyres and fuel spent behind Bottas could have been spent chasing others down and that alone is worth its weight in gold.

 

He lost about 4 seconds because of that pit stop and he was 7-8 seconds behind Bottas after that pit stop.

 

So no, he wouldn't have been ahead of Bottas anyway. Bottas was ahead, pitted first, and easily kept his lead in any case.

 

 

http://en.mclarenf-1...r2=Felipe Massa



#190 redreni

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 21:26

I must say Massa's comments about his pit crew are, in my view, disgraceful. The concept of time "lost" in a pitstop is, of course, by comparison with a near perfect, sub 3s stop. By that standard, you can say the stop cost him about 4s. But if Massa wants to apply that standard, he had better make sure he has a near perfect race, otherwise we can start to analyse how many seconds Massa cost himself.

 

He lost a hell of a lot of time behind Bottas and, for my money, he was lucky not to lose more. The reason Bottas wasn't willing to let him go when the team asked him is that Bottas knows team orders are a one-way street at Williams. The precedent is that they don't apply to Massa. So Bottas cannot be expected to think they should apply to him. Perhaps if Massa hadn't placed himself above the team when squabbling over seventh in Malaysia, he wouldn't have found himself impeded and obstructed on his way to a possible victory.

 

At the end of the day, members of the pit crew never approach journalists and slag off their driver when he costs the team time, even if they themselves have done a flawless job. It must be incredibly frustrating for them to be working with a driver who blames them for costing him a few seconds when, in the space of 22 laps, he can't pick off six cars, all except Bottas and Hulk virtually lined up in front of him, when he had tyres thirteen laps newer than Bottas, seven newer than Hulk, twelve newer than Vettel, fourteen newer than Bottas, eleven newer than Ricciardo and four laps newer than those on Rosberg's crippled Mercedes, on possibly the least difficult track on the calendar to pass on.

 

He only got Bottas and Hulk because they went off fighting each other, he couldn't get Vettel because he allegedly couldn't remember what button to press or when, and because he was shockingly poor on traction out of the hairpin. And then when Vettel got past Perez, he crashed while trying to do likewise (albeit that Perez was culpable in that situation). He was certainly a bit unlucky that it ended as it did, but by the time the crash happened his shot at victory had already passed him by, not because of the slow stop, but because he hadn't been able to clear the slower cars ahead of him. None of that does anything to dispel the notion that he's not a particularly good overtaker.



#191 AlexanderF1

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 21:57

well williams have had a few botched stops with massa so he should be annoyed. with team orders i dont see how malasyia and canada are linked the tyre age difference at canada was way bigger so it should have been a no brainer for williams(in malsyia they were on same ish age tyres) and the reason why massa couldnt get past vettel is because everyone was in drs and slipstream and also the redbull had awsome traction. i dont know why everyone thinks he is a bad overtaker.look at 2008,2009 and 2012 overtakes on youtube. what about bottas clearly he threw away the podium by flatspotting his tyres in final stint. Williams as a whole need to get their act together and make the most of it  



#192 Lights

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:31

I find it difficult to judge these drivers against each other, because whenever I look at the constructor standings I just can't comprehend how they are 6th. It's unbelievable how many chances this team has failed to capitalize on, and the drivers have been a part of that.



#193 redreni

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 16:36

well williams have had a few botched stops with massa so he should be annoyed. with team orders i dont see how malasyia and canada are linked the tyre age difference at canada was way bigger so it should have been a no brainer for williams(in malsyia they were on same ish age tyres) and the reason why massa couldnt get past vettel is because everyone was in drs and slipstream and also the redbull had awsome traction. i dont know why everyone thinks he is a bad overtaker.look at 2008,2009 and 2012 overtakes on youtube. what about bottas clearly he threw away the podium by flatspotting his tyres in final stint. Williams as a whole need to get their act together and make the most of it  

 

Well the link is quite simply that Bottas now knows that Massa will not move over for him even if the team tells him to, so unless he wants to be the de facto number two driver he cannot follow the team's instructions if they tell him to move aside for Massa. If it hadn't been for Malaysia, that wouldn't be the case. I don't expect the age of his tyres would influence Bottas' thinking on that point very much.

 

I agree Massa should be annoyed about pitstops not going well, but I strongly believe he should keep his opinions on that topic within the team and, even then, focus on take care to come across as constructive and forward-looking, rather than angry and out to aportion blame. And if he wants to analyse why he didn't win on Sunday, he should take a look in the mirror.

 

Vettel was getting the DRS and a tow from the cars ahead, but the Red Bull was still no quicker with the DRS open than the Force India with the DRS closed. Massa also had DRS and a strong tow and the Mercedes engine and probably the slipperiest chassis in the field, and a massive tyre advantage, which should have given him the tools to get the job done.

 

And regarding overtaking, if you look at youtube clips of decontextualised passes, you can make almost any driver in the field look like a brilliant overtaker. With the very low durability tyres we had in 2012, there were lots of overtaking moves. When you judge if somebody is good or bad at overtaking, you have to look for situations where they are losing a lot of time in traffic and have the pace to go much faster, and ask yourself how long it generally takes them to get past. How many laps do they sit in traffic, not doing their proper pace, allowing their plan for the race to unfold? In Massa's case on Sunday, it was 21 laps, and if the race had gone on for another 21 laps without any more tyre changes, frankly, the way he was driving, it's difficult to imagine he would ever have made it into P1, despite being the fastest guy out there.



#194 Exb

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 19:15

I have to admit I am disappointed when I see Williams so low in the standings. I think both Williams drivers and the team could do a better job - yes there has been some bad luck involved but I think the Williams car is one of the best in the field behind the Mercedes and they have had no results to speak of. There has been some obvious mistakes from all parties which has cost them big points and great results. Its frustrating as there has been times they have looked like they were going to deliver a good finish, only for something to go wrong, both drivers have shown they can be fast and fight at the front only for 1 small mistake to ruin the race. I was thinking after the flyaway races they might have missed their chance as others improve but they are still up there fighting, I just hope they can string a complete weekend together with no mistakes and that should get them the result I think this car deserves and which the drivers are more than capable of delivering (its not as if either are slow and they have shown great speed at varying points through a weekend and race). Maybe they just need a bit of a change of luck, which means they get a good result and it will turn the season round for them and more good races will follow.


Edited by Exb, 13 June 2014 - 19:16.


#195 scandyman

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 20:13

According finnish MTV Bottas didn't have working ERS and he also had break problem.



#196 Jimisgod

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 03:40

Massa now 11th in the championship, less than half Bottas' points.

 

But I thought this was Massa's year, and he was going to be the #1 driver finally...  :rotfl:  :rotfl:



#197 kaisellgren

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:25

But I thought this was Massa's year, and he was going to be the #1 driver finally...  :rotfl:  :rotfl:

 

Maldonado thought the same in 2013.



#198 scandyman

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:05

Very nice Qualifying for both of them and Massa edging it by a margin. :clap:



#199 darkkis

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:10

Very very close one. I trust Bottas to bring the results in tomorrow.



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#200 discover23

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 13:10

Very Happy for Massa congrats!