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Felipe Massa vs Valtteri Bottas 2014


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#401 boldhakka

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:53

Bottas.  :up:

 

MAXIMUM ATTACK. 



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#402 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 14:07

This one goes to Massa then, mainly because Bottas lost out at the first pitstop. Though he didn't have much pace after that either, weird.



#403 darkkis

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 15:05

Well.. Williams put him on the hard tyre to but that plan was very bad. Same for Massa but he lucked into better pit strategy.

#404 Wander

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 21:35

Bottas was plain unlucky to finish behind Massa today. But it happens.



#405 xflow7

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 21:49

Surprised Bottas didn't end up getting past Vettel in the last lap or two.  He'd caught him up at 1.2-1.5s per lap and was within 1s with 2 laps to go, IIRC.



#406 William Hunt

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 22:29

I think Williams should have put the other Felipe, Felipe Nasr, in the car. Massa is being dominated by Bottas this season although he did have a lot of bad luck and he did at least score a pole position but Bottas clearly has the edge.



#407 kaisellgren

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:51

Surprised Bottas didn't end up getting past Vettel in the last lap or two.  He'd caught him up at 1.2-1.5s per lap and was within 1s with 2 laps to go, IIRC.

 

It's the same as with Ham and Alo, it's just too hard to pass on this track. Ricciardo was one of the few!



#408 madrocker

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 14:57

I like Nasr, but I find funny the notion that he would be any faster than Massa is this Williams car. What is wrong with Williams supporters?



#409 maximilian

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 15:06

I like Nasr, but I find funny the notion that he would be any faster than Massa is this Williams car. What is wrong with Williams supporters?

 

He might only be equally as fast at first, but cost a LOT less, and a LOT less annoying whining.  So... bring him on!  ;)



#410 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 15:29

I think Williams should have put the other Felipe, Felipe Nasr, in the car. Massa is being dominated by Bottas this season although he did have a lot of bad luck and he did at least score a pole position but Bottas clearly has the edge.

Bottas has had the edge the past few races, but not before that. Its far from domination.

#411 Jyrjo

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 15:55

Bottas has had the edge the past few races, but not before that. Its far from domination.


I begin to feel that even if Bottas wins 6wdcs in a row whilst blindfolded and one hand tied behind his back.... he still is "not impressive" for some people   ;) ...   but the guy has no personality so maybe there´s that.    

Point difference = domination
Race performance = better performance consistently but not by large margin.. I give you that. 


I wonder what is required to "having an edge".   :stoned:



#412 Lone

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 16:50

I begin to feel that even if Bottas wins 6wdcs in a row whilst blindfolded and one hand tied behind his back.... he still is "not impressive" for some people  ;) ... but the guy has no personality so maybe there´s that.
Point difference = domination
Race performance = better performance consistently but not by large margin.. I give you that.
I wonder what is required to "having an edge". :stoned:

Well, you should know that in the eyes of some fans the only one who's better than Massa is Alonso. If Bottas were to be better than Massa... Well, let's just say that the myth wouldn't be as strong :).

And Bottas personality isn't that exciting, atleast for us who only knows his public persona.

Edited by Lone, 29 July 2014 - 17:00.


#413 bernardv

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 16:55

I begin to feel that even if Bottas wins 6wdcs in a row whilst blindfolded and one hand tied behind his back.... he still is "not impressive" for some people   ;) ...   but the guy has no personality so maybe there´s that.    

Point difference = domination
Race performance = better performance consistently but not by large margin.. I give you that. 


I wonder what is required to "having an edge".   :stoned:

 

Being plain faster? Massa showed some bad judgement but it was all borderline to plain bad luck. In a race without any such incidents, Massa seemed on average at least as fast if not faster than Bottas. Given their ages (Massa surely lost some speed at his present age) I see Bottas as a solid performer, having a nice career, but not really top of the top.



#414 Anderis

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 17:22

Massa seemed on average at least as fast if not faster than Bottas.

That's very untrue. Bottas is beating Massa 7-4 in qualifying this season, but 6-1 in last 7 qualifying sessions and also 6-1 in dry qualifying sessions. The biggest gap in favour of Massa in any Q session was merely 3 tenths, while the biggest gap in favour of Bottas (discounting Monaco) was almost 8 tenths. Also the last time when Massa seemed to have an edge in race trim in a straight fight was Bahrain, 8 races ago. Since then, Bottas was never slower than him as long as they were on comparable strategy and with no issues outside their control. Also the biggest edge Massa ever had was just few seconds (I discount Hungary, where Bottas was screwed massively by SC) on a race distance, while Bottas beat him fair and square in Spain by 45 seconds.

 

I can agree than on average, Massa is not far away from Bottas, not as much as the points gap suggests, but for sure he isn't "on average at least as fast if not faster". Average is definetely in favour of Bottas, even, if not by very much.


Edited by Anderis, 29 July 2014 - 17:23.


#415 A.Fant

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Posted Today, 08:50

I ran some numbers on dry qualifying and compared how Massa is performing relative to Bottas versus how he performed relative to Alonso. I looked at the sessions where the drivers set a representative time, so if one driver failed to set a time in Q3 I compared the Q2 times of the drivers. Non-representative times were also excluded, like Q3 in Italy 2012 where Alonso had a car failure and set a time 1.4s slower than the times he set in Q1 and Q2 - in that case their Q2 times were used.

 

Massa vs Alonso

 

Ahead: 13-49 (20.97%, 2010: 3-12, 2011: 3-14, 2012: 1-16, 2013: 6-7)

 

Gap: 0.30% (0.270s on a 90s lap)

 

Massa vs Bottas

 

Ahead: 2-5 (28.57%, Monaco goes to Massa as he was faster in Q1)

 

Gap: 0.35% (0.315s on a 90s lap)

 

So Bottas is currently beating Massa at roughly the same extent as Alonso was. It's a small sample, but the tendency is similar.


Edited by A.Fant, Today, 08:55.


#416 HeadFirst

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Posted Today, 12:37

Williams aren't paying Massa, are they??????? :eek:


Edited by HeadFirst, Today, 12:37.


#417 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted Today, 13:58

Williams aren't paying Massa, are they??????? :eek:

 

Why wouldn't they be?

 

He has stuffed some races,....been stuffed himself by others but has had pole position and obviously brings some value to the team. He hasn't mentally imploded either like he did vs Alonso.

 

He can still make a strong case for himself.



#418 Jon83

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Posted Today, 14:19

I think Williams should have put the other Felipe, Felipe Nasr, in the car. Massa is being dominated by Bottas this season although he did have a lot of bad luck and he did at least score a pole position but Bottas clearly has the edge.

 

Not sure what Nasr would do that Massa hasn't?

 

 



#419 Anderis

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Posted Today, 14:28

Not sure what Nasr would do that Massa hasn't?

We never know for sure.



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#420 Jon83

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Posted Today, 14:57

We never know for sure.

 

Considering he has never raced in F1 and has hardly been rip-roaring in GP2, I see little to think he'd be doing a better job than Massa.



#421 sopa

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Posted Today, 15:39

As of now, I don't see a true top star in Bottas as of yet, more like a Button type of driver. Which is still very good - very consistent and clean racer, dependable points collector. Rated as a top 6 driver on the grid most of the time.


Edited by sopa, Today, 15:40.