Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Jean-Éric Vergne vs Daniil Kvyat 2014


  • Please log in to reply
115 replies to this topic

#101 Redback

Redback
  • Member

  • 770 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:38

I agree JEV would perform similarly to Dan in RBR, but what they are looking for is Sebastian II - a teen phenom that does something extraordinary in the lower formula like outscores his teammate by 8 times or wins a GP or whatever - apparently.   I am unsure why they are taking that approach.  Alguersauri and Buemi would have also done well in a top team, imo, but I suppose that is not enough; they want a star in STRF that makes everyone sit up and take notice.  Kvyat is doing that, but not to the degree Seb did yet.  However, I think the kid is capable of kicking up a storm, so let's see.  Meanwhile, next season will be tricky for Daniil and Max in that regard, especially if a seat is opening at Red Bull. 

I didn't say JEV "would perform similarly to Dan in RBR". He wouldn't.  He might be a step up on Vettel's performance so far this year though, so in that respect he could be a Seb "Mk II", - a better, improved version of the original.  

 

IMO...



Advertisement

#102 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 2,581 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:40

I agree JEV would perform similarly to Dan in RBR, but what they are looking for is Sebastian II - a teen phenom that does something extraordinary in the lower formula like outscores his teammate by 8 times or wins a GP or whatever - apparently.   I am unsure why they are taking that approach.  Alguersauri and Buemi would have also done well in a top team, imo, but I suppose that is not enough; they want a star in STRF that makes everyone sit up and take notice.  Kvyat is doing that, but not to the degree Seb did yet.  However, I think the kid is capable of kicking up a storm, so let's see.  Meanwhile, next season will be tricky for Daniil and Max in that regard, especially if a seat is opening at Red Bull. 

Considering Ricciardo is beating Vettel, if Vergne performed as well as him I think RBR would be very interested.


Edited by Thomas99, 19 August 2014 - 09:42.


#103 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:53

I feel sorry for JEV because occasionally he looked up to Dan's pace. But the key word is occasionally. RedBull told JEV he missed out because Dan was more consistent. And I think more importantly Dan seems to relish pressure whereas the pressure really seemed to get to JEV. These are not small things that are easily corrected.

#104 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,241 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:08

Let's get back on topic.  Vergne v. Kvyat 2014.

 

On topic, all Vergne can do now is try and show that his experience and talent can overshadow Kvyat - which is not going to be easy if his car keeps breaking down.  I believe Total and Renault would judge him fairly in that regard though and help him as they have other French drivers in the past.

 

 

_____

 

c2497c046e874637b2bcf532c34b8594.jpg

 

 

According to Daniil, despite his sensational start, he is still not feeling the formula and expects a more explosive 2nd half.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/115353


Edited by bourbon, 19 August 2014 - 10:37.


#105 BCM

BCM
  • Member

  • 297 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:41

Or if Ricciardo leaves.

If Max impresses enough, he will find a seat somewhere. He isn't gonna just disappear because a Red Bull never opens up. I think there will be other teams tripping over themselves to sign him up.

 

We'll see. I'll believe the hype when I see him destroying Kyvat.



#106 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:50

Let's get back on topic.  Vergne v. Kvyat 2014.
 
On topic, all Vergne can do now is try and show that his experience and talent can overshadow Kvyat - which is not going to be easy if his car keeps breaking down.  I believe Total and Renault would judge him fairly in that regard though and help him as they have other French drivers in the past.
 
 
_____
 
c2497c046e874637b2bcf532c34b8594.jpg
 
 
According to Daniil, despite his sensational start, he is still not feeling the formula and expects a more explosive 2nd half.
 
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/115353


This is on topic. Vergne has lost his seat, ergo the battle.

#107 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 9,810 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:01

I agree with the poster who said Vergne isn't "an Alguersuari or a Buemi" - even if those were capable of becoming decent journeymen midfielders. Vergne basically was in the same ballpark as Ricciardo, and we're seeing just how good Ricciardo is this season. Sure it's damning Vergne was deemed by Red Bull as a guy with less potential than 4 other drivers they'll have next season, but that still doesn't mean he can't be better than the majority of drivers lined up for the other F1 teams. In fact I think he is.

 

I'm starting to get a bit concerned that the Red Bull programme, whilst I don't disagree necessarily with their methods and think they've been pretty successful, is starting to cling on to all the talent and then cut off from F1 anyone who's capable of becoming a race winner, but just isn't a Senna. It's insane that the likely GP3 and WSR champions this season have now suddenly struck a F1 career dead end. You look at guys like Vergne, da Costa, Sainz Jr, Lynn, Gasly, maybe none of them would be champions but you'd still think a few of them could become solid upper-end F1 drivers with a lenghty career, and I think Vergne has already proved that. Exaggerating a bit, if this trend continues in the future, Red Bull could be signing up the 20 most talented young drivers in the world, using the 4 best of them in their 4 F1 seats, and leaving everyone else in the sport with useless donkeys peddling their wheels as only the 21st best driver onwards is available.

 

I hope Vergne can be an exception to the usual rule of Toro Rosso dropouts and manage to find a seat, he deserves it.



#108 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,241 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:18

I agree with the poster who said Vergne isn't "an Alguersuari or a Buemi" - even if those were capable of becoming decent journeymen midfielders. Vergne basically was in the same ballpark as Ricciardo, and we're seeing just how good Ricciardo is this season. Sure it's damning Vergne was deemed by Red Bull as a guy with less potential than 4 other drivers they'll have next season, but that still doesn't mean he can't be better than the majority of drivers lined up for the other F1 teams. In fact I think he is.

 

I'm starting to get a bit concerned that the Red Bull programme, whilst I don't disagree necessarily with their methods and think they've been pretty successful, is starting to cling on to all the talent and then cut off from F1 anyone who's capable of becoming a race winner, but just isn't a Senna. It's insane that the likely GP3 and WSR champions this season have now suddenly struck a F1 career dead end. You look at guys like Vergne, da Costa, Sainz Jr, Lynn, Gasly, maybe none of them would be champions but you'd still think a few of them could become solid upper-end F1 drivers with a lenghty career, and I think Vergne has already proved that. Exaggerating a bit, if this trend continues in the future, Red Bull could be signing up the 20 most talented young drivers in the world, using the 4 best of them in their 4 F1 seats, and leaving everyone else in the sport with useless donkeys peddling their wheels as only the 21st best driver onwards is available.

 

I hope Vergne can be an exception to the usual rule of Toro Rosso dropouts and manage to find a seat, he deserves it.

 

Some good points.  You have to figure that the real diamonds in the rough will get seats elsewhere.  That is why JEV still has it all to play for the rest of this season, showing what he can do.  If he puts on a good showing, then it would be easier to find a home somewhere with the help of Total and/or Renault.  Even if it is as a third driver for a season.  Hulkenberg did that and made it back in, so that is another possibility. 

 

Vergne just needs to shine this season in and of himself - and independent of what his teammate does.  There are multiple measures that teams can look at and after the season, STRR will share his data with other teams I imagine.


Edited by bourbon, 19 August 2014 - 11:19.


#109 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 3,355 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:36

 Exaggerating a bit, if this trend continues in the future, Red Bull could be signing up the 20 most talented young drivers in the world, using the 4 best of them in their 4 F1 seats, and leaving everyone else in the sport with useless donkeys peddling their wheels as only the 21st best driver onwards is available.

 

 

I think this is the aim of RB. Red Bull has a huge budget and they want to win in F1. Quite a significant amount of that budget they spend on developing talent and I think they are more determined to snatch up best drivers than any other junior programme. If Red Bull signs up 10 most talented drivers in the world, and then they support 4 of them, they have succeeded. Why is in in their interest that potentially the 6th best driver never gets an F1 drive?

 

I think this is a message to other junior programmes. To wake up and perhaps use some of those talents themselves. But then again who wants to develop a driver, who has already been dismissed as "not quite good enough"? McLaren would rather develop Magnussen and Vandoorne than these dismissed kids.

 

This is the nature of ruthless competition. Is Vergne really good enough to "deserve" signed up by another team? Is Sainz Jr not getting a go in F1 a tragedy? Throughout history we have seen talented drivers getting left aside, in a way this is something new. If you are just "good" there is a chance you never make F1. It may seem a tragedy, yet it is natural part of the game.



#110 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 3,355 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:39

I think Vergne is getting slightly overrated right now due to the "drama" of him getting left without seat. He is good, but not that good. His qualifying was never special and to me he was not a match to Ricciardo. JEV's wet weather driving is very good, but then again Verstappen (Jos I mean) was also good in the wet and not rated that highly.

 

The only odd thing is that the former STR drivers are very young. Klien, Alguersuari, Buemi are still very young though they seem like veterans having had multiple seasons in F1 and now gone! But that's the modern nature of sport - aggressive junior programmes have pushed the average age down somewhat.



#111 Paul Parker

Paul Parker
  • Member

  • 1,734 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 19 August 2014 - 12:12

Allowing for a necessary level of speed and competence it is very difficult to properly assess a driver in F1 if he does not have a potentially race winning car.

 

If we consider Ricciardo's Torro Rosso career he was good at qualifying but not noticeably superior to his team mate in the races, with exception. Consider how embarrassed Vettel has been this season to find himself outraced and outqualified on too many occasions by a relative rookie, and this is the man who won 4 titles on the trot.

 

So how do you now rate SV, do you think that he just has not adapted his driving to the new formula, as has apparently affected Kimi, or is he being out performed in reality? F1 is far more dependent upon the car than the driver and has been for a long time, currently Mercedes Benz have a big advantage, but the rest of the 'front runners' are very close in peformance terms, with exception.

 

Only Alonso stands out as the driver who can make the difference between being stuck in midfield and finishing in the top half dozen despite the current Ferrari's obvious limitations.

 

I hope JEV finds a better berth for 2015, a period of less pressure and not being under threat of losing his drive would be welcome, I think he deserves it.



#112 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,241 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 August 2014 - 12:12

There is a thread created to discuss Vergne's prospects here:  http://forums.autosp...an-eric-vergne/

 

So we can focus here on Vergne v. Kvyat 2014.  :D


Edited by bourbon, 19 August 2014 - 12:15.


#113 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 2,186 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 20 August 2014 - 00:33

I think & hope he's got a drive at lotus next year.

 

I think gro is off to mclaren.



#114 Thomas99

Thomas99
  • Member

  • 2,581 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:30

I agree with the poster who said Vergne isn't "an Alguersuari or a Buemi" - even if those were capable of becoming decent journeymen midfielders. Vergne basically was in the same ballpark as Ricciardo, and we're seeing just how good Ricciardo is this season. Sure it's damning Vergne was deemed by Red Bull as a guy with less potential than 4 other drivers they'll have next season, but that still doesn't mean he can't be better than the majority of drivers lined up for the other F1 teams. In fact I think he is.

 

I'm starting to get a bit concerned that the Red Bull programme, whilst I don't disagree necessarily with their methods and think they've been pretty successful, is starting to cling on to all the talent and then cut off from F1 anyone who's capable of becoming a race winner, but just isn't a Senna. It's insane that the likely GP3 and WSR champions this season have now suddenly struck a F1 career dead end. You look at guys like Vergne, da Costa, Sainz Jr, Lynn, Gasly, maybe none of them would be champions but you'd still think a few of them could become solid upper-end F1 drivers with a lenghty career, and I think Vergne has already proved that. Exaggerating a bit, if this trend continues in the future, Red Bull could be signing up the 20 most talented young drivers in the world, using the 4 best of them in their 4 F1 seats, and leaving everyone else in the sport with useless donkeys peddling their wheels as only the 21st best driver onwards is available.

 

I hope Vergne can be an exception to the usual rule of Toro Rosso dropouts and manage to find a seat, he deserves it.

 

Did they say he was necessarily less potential than the other 4? I'm not so sure Red Bull are implying that. What they're saying is they want to give the others a chance to show what they have. There is every chance Vergne could indeed be higher quality than both Kvyat and Verstappen.



#115 boxstop

boxstop
  • New Member

  • 1 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:26

Why you don't make this no more?

2efng5j.png



#116 RubalSher

RubalSher
  • Member

  • 2,422 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:28

Why you don't make this no more?

 

Okie, will do for Russia in a couple of days.