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Live Timing: Lack of provision for desktops


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Poll: FREE Sector time in Live Timing (289 member(s) have cast votes)

Bring back FREE sector time in Live Timing?

  1. Yes. Without it Free Live Timing is worthless (274 votes [94.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 94.81%

  2. No. Sector times in Live Timing is a premium feature. As such, it must be paid for (15 votes [5.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.19%

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#251 Fastcake

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 16:30

Intelligent use of the internet will earn a lot more money than TV. TV's decline will accelerate rapidly in the next decade.

 

One day perhaps. But not today, TV is still king.



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#252 Lazy

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 16:46

Like I say "will", and we're not talking long term or even medium term. Look at the rise of netflix, google play, itunes, Playstation etc. This trend will accelerate exponentially in the next few years. The time to start investing is now, because TV will all but dead by the end of the decade.



#253 Arn

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 18:00

I think more and more people would like to pay for specific content instead of having to pay for TV channels where they get a bunch of crap they never watch anyway, just to be able to see the one thing they want.



#254 Fastcake

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 19:20

Like I say "will", and we're not talking long term or even medium term. Look at the rise of netflix, google play, itunes, Playstation etc. This trend will accelerate exponentially in the next few years. The time to start investing is now, because TV will all but dead by the end of the decade.

 

Mmm, and TV was meant to be dead by the end of the last decade as well. As long as TV networks keep control over the vast majority of content, people will keep paying them for access. It's very hard to break that cycle. As I said, one day perhaps, but for the foreseeable future the only market netflix will cannibalise are back catalogue DVD sales.



#255 Arn

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 20:18

Mmm, and TV was meant to be dead by the end of the last decade as well. As long as TV networks keep control over the vast majority of content, people will keep paying them for access. It's very hard to break that cycle. As I said, one day perhaps, but for the foreseeable future the only market netflix will cannibalise are back catalogue DVD sales.

TV viewership has declined in the last couple of years, at least in Denmark. Netflix alone after only 1 year would be the 6th largest TV channel and 3. largest among the under 30 year old group in viewership. TV will of course not die, but it will get increased competition from streaming. Just look at the increasing number of sports that is getting streamed.



#256 ensign14

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 21:35

Intelligent use of the internet will earn a lot more money than TV. TV's decline will accelerate rapidly in the next decade.

 

Yeah, but TV companies can pay bungs.



#257 Atreiu

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 23:57

to make less money? national TV stations pay a lot of money, I don't think online coverage would cover that. Formula One is about money, though I don't see it happened even after Bernie is gone

 

That must be exactly what Bernie thinks, but it's outdated.

Online subscriptions would eliminate a middleman and also allow for much diversified coverage, besides the creation of new products. For example, I'd easy open my wallet to be able to watch the 80s.

 

Heck, online subscriptions work for the billionary NFL.



#258 Lazy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 06:25

Indeed, and there is the huge smartphone/tablet market, how much would people pay to be able watch while on business trips, holidays, weddings, weekends at the in laws etc etc.



#259 Lotus53B

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:07

When it's on the BBC, I can - I can easily watch F1 on either my phone or either of my tablets, the BBC iplayer is a grand app

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#260 JRizzle86

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 13:16

Live timing app cut to £9.99. Personally i think it should still be a free app.

 

http://www.f1fanatic...-2014-reviewed/



#261 Clatter

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 16:44

Indeed, and there is the huge smartphone/tablet market, how much would people pay to be able watch while on business trips, holidays, weddings, weekends at the in laws etc etc.

No where near as much as some might think.



#262 Lazy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 17:27

Live timing app cut to £9.99. Personally i think it should still be a free app.

 

http://www.f1fanatic...-2014-reviewed/

Not a great review either, probably why the price was cut.



#263 Fastcake

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 17:35

It was £9.99 to start with wasn't it? :confused:



#264 Lazy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 17:49

I meant that they realised it was crap so they put the price down, it was 20 odd last year I believe.



#265 loki

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 21:37

Intelligent use of the internet will earn a lot more money than TV. TV's decline will accelerate rapidly in the next decade.

While viewer numbers have declined the revenue generated from advertising in markets where TV is ad supported it's an order of magnitude greater than online.   That's not to say the two mediums can't co exist  as NASCAR is proving.  The TV deals for NASCR in the US alone dwarfs the global revenue of F1 rights by a substantial amount.  They are adding more free and subscription features online to either enhance or provide a better mobile experience than radio alone.  I've got Fontana on the iPad right even though there is a TV in the other room.  For this sort of high profile even the future lies in pay per view or subscriptions as ad revenue isn't likely to be as great as TV any time soon.



#266 Lazy

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 21:49

It's true about TV but that situation is going to change very fast and soon IMO.



#267 chrcol

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 23:07

 

I use a desktop PC with windows Vista, with F1LT  :
 
http://i57.servimg.c...50/f1lt_v10.jpg

 

edit, got app now thanks.

Edited by chrcol, 23 March 2014 - 23:12.


#268 chrcol

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 00:01

Erm, tablet is brand new and I don't know how to make screenshots yet :blush:
I have 6 screens, pretty similar to those from last year: the one they show in media centre (the one with the pink numbers moving), one for tyres, one for standings, one specific for gaps and intervals, one specific for sector times and the one where you can pick the driver with tyre, DRS, lap time, gap, interval, the three sectors plus numbers of pit-stops, plus, clicking on the heads of the different columns: fastest lap, speed and best sector.

The screens are right like last year's except for the DRS information.

Maybe the problem is that you have a phone.

 

I can confirm the pic in this article showing the tablet is noticebly better than the phone app.  It has more columns for data, the GAP and INT are removed on the phone.

 

http://www.f1fanatic.../officialf1app/
 

also no speed/max speed on the phone app and cannot see all the map at once like in that screenshot.


Edited by chrcol, 24 March 2014 - 00:01.


#269 fast

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 00:10

I use a desktop PC with windows Vista, with F1LT  :

 

http://i57.servimg.c...50/f1lt_v10.jpg

 

 

Are those sectors times shown in this screen capture real or are they fake?

 

What do you guys think?



#270 fast

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 00:53

Erm, tablet is brand new and I don't know how to make screenshots yet :blush:
I have 6 screens, pretty similar to those from last year: the one they show in media centre (the one with the pink numbers moving), one for tyres, one for standings, one specific for gaps and intervals, one specific for sector times and the one where you can pick the driver with tyre, DRS, lap time, gap, interval, the three sectors plus numbers of pit-stops, plus, clicking on the heads of the different columns: fastest lap, speed and best sector.

The screens are right like last year's except for the DRS information.

Maybe the problem is that you have a phone.

 

Hey artista,

 

I just bought the app for Android. Downloaded the Australia GP race to play it back virtually to get to

know the app. The app seems to run better, it´s clearly been updated. 

 

Do you know where is the Best Lap and driver who did it info, as on the desktop app? I can´t find it.

The purple moving row that you mention on page 1 (fist dot on the right) gives a lap time, but it

doesn´t show the driver who did it. The sectors and speeds columns next to it do show the driver

alternately though. Besides not showing the driver, I´m not sure if that is the overall best lap...



#271 loki

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:48

It's true about TV but that situation is going to change very fast and soon IMO.

In the US there are long term lock in deals with sports and while Amazon and Netflix are starting to show original content, pay networks are streaming sports. movies and original programming but with most you also need to have the cable or sat subscription.  It's being offered in addition to traditional services.  The iTunes store was responsible for t US$1 billion in revenue last year.  The thing that is holding back the US other than lock in deals and much more money in advertising is the infrastructure.  There just isn't enough bandwidth in the so called last mile to get the content from the last NAP to the home.  That's something that's going to take billions to retrofit though in newer areas there is fiber to the home.  Provider infrastructure needs an upgrade to be able to scale as well but that's not quite as complex and costly.  There likely won't be a paradigm shift in who controls the content though there may be a few more players.  Likely most of the big content providers today will be the same when the trasmission and distribution medium changes.



#272 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:06

I can confirm the pic in this article showing the tablet is noticebly better than the phone app.  It has more columns for data, the GAP and INT are removed on the phone.

 

http://www.f1fanatic.../officialf1app/
 

also no speed/max speed on the phone app and cannot see all the map at once like in that screenshot.

 

Not removed, collapsed. The column headings can be clicked and then Gap and Int will show up. See my earlier post on previous page or so for details



#273 Cool Beans

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:32

Are those sectors times shown in this screen capture real or are they fake?

 

What do you guys think?

The sector accuracy looks like full seconds and they're not even close to the actual time when added up. Maybe they're just live estimates calculated from the sector colour codes that still pop up in the official desktop app? Anyway it's useless when the accuracy is +/- half a second.



#274 artista

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:31

Hey artista,

 

I just bought the app for Android. Downloaded the Australia GP race to play it back virtually to get to

know the app. The app seems to run better, it´s clearly been updated. 

 

Do you know where is the Best Lap and driver who did it info, as on the desktop app? I can´t find it.

The purple moving row that you mention on page 1 (fist dot on the right) gives a lap time, but it

doesn´t show the driver who did it. The sectors and speeds columns next to it do show the driver

alternately though. Besides not showing the driver, I´m not sure if that is the overall best lap...

 

Hmm,

I think the only way to see who has the fastest lap is to be in the "leaderboard" screen or the "sectors screen" (the one that appears or disappears depending on the the tablet being in portrait or landscape modus) and click on "lap time" to change it from current lap time to best lap time and see which driver had a fastest one. That was better in the PC version of the timing than in the app.



#275 vlado

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 13:12

I am using the Genymotion andro emulator on Win8 to run the app and it works fine.. its just sad that I have to go trough all of that to make it run on desktop.

The reason FOM refuses to invest in PC support is due to fear of piracy, which would prevent them from monetizing LT data.. Fear of people porting the LT data for others to use freely, which has been happening over the years.
 
But in terms of user experience, it's best on a large screen and I'd expect that to include the by far most widely used format, namely the PC.


They don't need to worry about that with Windows 8 .. they can make an "app" for the windows store which is as protected from piracy as the ones in the apple and android app stores.

That's a 200% increase! :p

But that's only the tablets or phones (which are even worse for LT), what about all the laptops and desktops?

But yes, windows tablets have been very bad because the semiconductor technology havent been good enough to be put in a tablet form. But with Intels latest generation of Bay Trail atom CPUs, its heading in the right direction. You can now get a proper Windows 8.1 tablet with competitive CPU power and battery time in a small 8" tablet. We will see in a few years how it turns out.

Personally I think having a full Windows computer in a small tablet form is much better than having Android or IOS, and I have had and still use an Iphone since my first 3GS. I also am using a Samsung S2 and Asus TF700 Android tablet (Which is sh.t despite the hefty price) but my Asus T100 windows tablet can be used for so more.


Spot on.

Win8 tablets also have a proper internet browser on board, so even if they just updated the web based client you will be able to access it.

Edited by vlado, 24 March 2014 - 13:26.


#276 fast

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 13:49

The sector accuracy looks like full seconds and they're not even close to the actual time when added up. Maybe they're just live estimates calculated from the sector colour codes that still pop up in the official desktop app? Anyway it's useless when the accuracy is +/- half a second.

 

Yeah, pretty useless in case it is an estimate, or a waste of time if it´s just an edited fake pic.

 

Someone who tries that app live this weekend for the Malaysian GP, please post if sectors

times do show up at all. Thanks.



#277 fast

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 14:09

Hmm,

I think the only way to see who has the fastest lap is to be in the "leaderboard" screen or the "sectors screen" (the one that appears or disappears depending on the the tablet being in portrait or landscape modus) and click on "lap time" to change it from current lap time to best lap time and see which driver had a fastest one. That was better in the PC version of the timing than in the app.

 

I tried that too, but you have to click on every driver to see all the lap times. It seems there is no

overall Best Lap as we have on the desktop timing, unless it is hidden somewhere... It´s a shame

if this wasn´t implemented on the mobile apps.

 

So, regarding the moving purple "LAP TIME" column on page 1, what do you think that time

refers to exactly? I re-started the race from lap 1, and when this lap time shows up, if I check

 the Gap/Interval page, there is no lap time set there yet. Weird...



#278 drJeckyll

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 16:13

Are those sectors times shown in this screen capture real or are they fake?

 

What do you guys think?

 

Not real, but not not exactly fake. You can see how they are calculated from: https://bitbucket.or...9a8003395a4ad08

 

Live stream is updated every second so this is the reason sector times are rounded to second. Also they are not accurate, because stream is not real time. It can update multiple values at once i.e. update sector 2 and 3 in same time if there is some lag or it can delay update color of some sector which was common - you see time and after second or two it become purple. And also there can be latency from Internet connection. Code shows that author is trying to figure out time from color update for dots. Nice workaround, but not even close to real sector times.



#279 fast

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 18:07

Not real, but not not exactly fake. You can see how they are calculated from: https://bitbucket.or...9a8003395a4ad08

 

Live stream is updated every second so this is the reason sector times are rounded to second. Also they are not accurate, because stream is not real time. It can update multiple values at once i.e. update sector 2 and 3 in same time if there is some lag or it can delay update color of some sector which was common - you see time and after second or two it become purple. And also there can be latency from Internet connection. Code shows that author is trying to figure out time from color update for dots. Nice workaround, but not even close to real sector times.

 

Interesting. Good effort from this guy to get sectors times for the fans. 



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#280 PIJAMAS

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:13

The TV deals for NASCR in the US alone dwarfs the global revenue of F1 rights by a substantial amount.

 

Do you have sources to back that up?

 

I find it very hard to believe something as NASCAR can have anywhere near the global revenue of F1, nevermind in US alone.

 

 

About the LT, are they showing the corner speed comparison that was promised in the launch ad?

 

They said it would have entry, apex and exit speed on selected turns. Knowing their typical half arsed job, I'm quite skeptical of that :well:

 



#281 Elissa

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 12:55

Do you have sources to back that up?

 

t :well:

 

 

I recall an interview on Radio Le Mans recently where the US sports reporter Declan was being quizzed about the recent NASCAR deal with NBC, the numbers were quite frankly staggering, ie something like $8 Billion for 10 years.

 

EDIT: Found a related news article: http://www.sportingn...bc-deal-ratings

 

It's $8.2 Billion for 10 years....

 

I'm no NASCAR fan but that's hardly small change!! 

 

So that's roughly £4.93 Billion, working out to be just shy of half a billion a season, I'd say that's more than comparable with F1!!!!!!!


Edited by Elissa, 27 March 2014 - 12:59.


#282 ElDictatore

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 03:22

Unfortunately the little advice with the F1LT 3.0 doesn't work. So people without an android or iOS device are still left out on that one.



#283 alfa1

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:49

So is the F1LT program (for desktops) giving anybody sensible sector times during FP2, or is it just not working for me?

 

All I see is mostly 0.0 sector times, but occasionally random strange numbers like -13246.0, or 13040.0.

 

And lap times are only mostly sensible. Vergne, as an example, just did a "217:20.000".   Kvyat just did a "0:0-4384.00-4..." laptime.

 

 

Edit - actually I think I know what the issue is.  If the F1LT program is started halfway through a session, it cannot properly calculate a sector time or laptime that is currently underway, so garbage values result.  As drivers continue to lap and the program knows a start time for a lap or sector time, the values displayed on screen become sensible.

 

But still no sector times other than 0.0.    :(


Edited by alfa1, 28 March 2014 - 07:07.


#284 Zava

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 06:54

So is the F1LT program (for desktops) giving anybody sensible sector times during FP2, or is it just not working for me?

 

All I see is mostly 0.0 sector times, but occasionally random strange numbers like -13246.0, or 13040.0.

 

And lap times are only mostly sensible. Vergne, as an example, just did a "217:20.000".   Kvyat just did a "0:0-4384..." laptime.

lap times are OK for me, sectors are 0.0, so basically the same functionality as the dots in the official one. the last/best lap column seems like a more useful one (for race sim stints), but I'm yet to see if it works properly, I haven't really paid attention to it. though it seems it puts 0:00.000 in the case of the last not being the best...



#285 ElDictatore

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 07:35

So is the F1LT program (for desktops) giving anybody sensible sector times during FP2, or is it just not working for me?

 

All I see is mostly 0.0 sector times, but occasionally random strange numbers like -13246.0, or 13040.0.

 

And lap times are only mostly sensible. Vergne, as an example, just did a "217:20.000".   Kvyat just did a "0:0-4384.00-4..." laptime.

 

 

Edit - actually I think I know what the issue is.  If the F1LT program is started halfway through a session, it cannot properly calculate a sector time or laptime that is currently underway, so garbage values result.  As drivers continue to lap and the program knows a start time for a lap or sector time, the values displayed on screen become sensible.

 

But still no sector times other than 0.0.    :(

 

It's the same as when you start the session with it. It doesn't even work without the addition (dot version) so it doesn't have to do with that but rather the basic program not pulling the source correctly. Let's see if it will be updated.



#286 SpaMaster

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 14:10

The worst thing is these guys don't even bother giving an explanation for their actions. This is a sport and they are supposed to be dependent on fans for their business. Yet these rude full-of-themselves crooks don't even bother responding to emails. If you are not going to reply to an email that has a genuine inquiry why even put up an email ID on the website. Posers. Why don't you just say "Contact: You can't contact us" and at least stand up for your true arrogant self. At least have the guts for that. Arrogant and cowardly at the same time!  :down:  :down:  :down:  Effing idiots, I dare them to explain themselves instead of hiding in their holes, holes!



#287 ANF

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 23:14

Looks like a gap-to-leader calculation has been developed and is on its way to F1LT, and with that, hopefully, the old gap chart. Until then: unnecessary confusion.



#288 Ickx

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 18:30

Great, the official app apparently don't have working gaps anymore. Very usefull...



#289 Sof1

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 18:38

The app is not showing gaps or Hamilton's sector times!



#290 Beamer

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 18:47

A no longer continued 2-year old (bootleg?) livetiming app is currently doing a better job than the paid official app is currently doing...

 

Positions wrong, gaps not always correct, and generally late with everyting!  :mad:



#291 mangeliiito

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 20:35

And the tyres went a whole lot longer in the app than real life. How hard can it be..?