50 replies to this topic

[camberley]

He took out Massa - that was some bad driving there.

 

Magnussen's start was bad too - he could have taken out Alonso - he's a rookie so we can forgive him.

 

 

[spacekid]

According to Sky, Kobi's KERS failed, effectively removing his rear braking. So - that being the case no blunder, just a racing incident.

[Clatter]

Wonder if Massa will come out and apologise for his comments?

[Tommay]

This is a huge safety risk if a KERS failure causes the rear brakes not to work.

[Clatter]

This is a huge safety risk if a KERS failure causes the rear brakes not to work.

The system is supposed to fail safe, so something clearly is right, but this is always the risk when the systems get ever more complicated.

[Aeomer]

Yes, Japanese from an early age are taught to always say sorry and apologise for everything even when it is not their fault. It's cultural.

I think BBW in the Cat is tuned to a car with everything in mid race conditions - cold tyres make that assumption wrong.

 

I do think BBW is inherently unsafe without ALB - I started a thread on this subject.

 

As for Massa's outburst - he is absolutely entitled to be upset, but his outburst was ungentlemanly and brings the sport into disrepute. If he talked like that on these forums he would be banned. I was really hoping to see him take the race to Alonso, but he needs to keep his head!

Edited by Aeomer, 16 March 2014 - 09:05.

[bernardv]

Kobi tweet:

"Sorry for messed up it's just my mistake sorry to Felipe and @CaterhamF1 all member!"

 

Why Massa needs to apologize?

[275 GTB-4]

The Human Race...what a clever lot we are

[ElDictatore]

Rear breakes didn't work, he only had front brakes, he was basically passenger. Blunder was more on the side of Caterham in that case.

[camberley]

Haven't heard it was a KERS issue - in fact Kobayashi himself apologized, took full responsibility and gave the excuse that he misjudged the fact that his brakes were not up to temperature.

[williams96]

Kudos to Kobayashi for accepting the blame upfront even though it seems it wasn't driver error. Massa likened it to Grosjean's accident which I think was harsh. He was obviously frustrated knowing the potential of the Williams but it was rather over the top.

[Clatter]

Kobi tweet:

"Sorry for messed up it's just my mistake sorry to Felipe and @CaterhamF1 all member!"

 

Why Massa needs to apologize?

Because as it turns out it might not be his fault after all, but calling for a race ban like that was a bit out of order. Was especially poor coming from Massa who has not exactly been Mr Perfect over the years.

[Gilles4Ever]

Caterham F1 Team @CaterhamF1

.@fia Stewards' report on @kamui_kobayashi's incident in turn one is in and no further action will be taken against Kamui... (cont...)

 

.."the Stewards determine that the incident was caused by a serious technical failure completely outside the control of the driver..."

 

..."The team is directed to work with the FIA Technical Delegate in determining the cause of the systems failure." @kamui_kobayashi

[Lee Nicolle]

What are they thinking,, really two different brake mediums on a racing car. He was the most obvious but several drivers had all sorts of dramas over the weekend. Kimi was an accident waiting too happen, Vettel looked damned untidy. Less aero is good, though the cars are still butt ugly. The first three drivers looked quite smooth, And Bottas was quite quick but still not that tidy. The rest were just driving around horrid cars.

[DracoN]

Sad day for koba haters 

[RuleyRamundo]

Even Vettel use to do it too, Mr Button knows.

 

Koba was just driving a death trap that is all. Nice new rules working well I see FIA.

 

More danger this year it is then. Maybe they think 20 years is too long.

[RedBaron]

Wonder if Massa will come out and apologise for his comments?

 

He didn't say anything insulting or cutting, so no. All he did was call for a hard penalty based on someone rocketing through the field into other cars at turn 1.

 

It isn't like he threatened to kick three colours of **** out of the little bastard.

Edited by RedBaron, 16 March 2014 - 11:22.

[Lee Nicolle]

Massa was hit by an out of control car. He does have a right to be dirty. Though Koba was just a passenger with a failed car.

[fisssssi]

I'm glad it appeared to be a brake failure and not an "inexcusable blunder". It's refreshing to hear drivers apologising upfront for their mistakes, none of the old "I didn't spin! something must have broke on the car!!@#" which is pretty much what most of Massa's career has sounded like. Maybe it is a cultural thing indeed.

 

Though the BBW is really started to sound like a disaster waiting to happen... 

[SPBHM]

good thing it was not a driver's mistake, because it looked really bad at the moment, but at the same time, a bad thing for Caterham, it was quite dangerous.

 

 

Massa was only asking for punishment, based on what he knew at the time, and he didn't say anything absurd anyway, a shame it ended his race so soon, it would have been interesting, 

[Wander]

I think what Kobayashi initially said was that he braked at the same time as everyone else, but the car just wouldn't slow down like everyone else around him, but he was careful to suggest that there was something wrong with the car immediately and thus speculated on cold tyres and longer braking required distance compared to the cars ahead due to less downforce. I'm glad for him that it was a car failure in the end and better luck next race!

[Magoo]

The Human Race...what a clever lot we are

 

 

+1 

[majkel]

Massa looks like a complete **** now.

I remember some of his wet races when he looked like complete amateur, and now this toolish words.

[Longtimefan]

Happy to see it wasn't Kamui's fault. He's a great guy

[FenderJaguar]

Massa looks OK to me. Kobayashi's crash looked like a driver error. He saw a gap and he came to fast into the corner, but it is very nice of you to so gladly accept Caterham's explanation. It might even be true. But personally I doubt it.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 16 March 2014 - 13:49.

[majkel]

Massa looks OK to me. Kobayashi's crash looked like a driver error. He saw a gap and he came to fast into the corner, but it is very nice of you to so gladly accept Caterham's explanation. It might even be true. But personally I doubt it.

Riight, beacuse the team looks so much better now, when they said it was car failure, not driver error.

Stewards are confirming Caterhams version anyway by not applying penalty points.

[Rurouni]

Massa looks OK to me. Kobayashi's crash looked like a driver error. He saw a gap and he came to fast into the corner, but it is very nice of you to so gladly accept Caterham's explanation. It might even be true. But personally I doubt it.

The official already examined all the data and it's not driver error. I believe it's should be easy to spot if we have access to the data, like whether when he press the brake the brake engaged or not. So no need to doubt the decision unless you think the official and Caterham colluded in reaching this decision, which in this case, nothing that I say could change your opinion.

Edit: or Caterham lied massively by supplying fake data thus make the team look bad instead of the driver.

Edited by Rurouni, 16 March 2014 - 14:00.

[FenderJaguar]

no I don't think there is a conspiracy. I think it was a smart move from Caterham to protect their driver. I don't know how "the official" has examined the data and I haven't seen it anywhere, but glad to know that all of you know that. Makes me feel safe.

[billm99uk]

Think Ant needs to work on his KK impression!

[Rurouni]

no I don't think there is a conspiracy. I think it was a smart move from Caterham to protect their driver. I don't know how "the official" has examined the data and I haven't seen it anywhere, but glad to know that all of you know that. Makes me feel safe.

This is from the FIA stewards taken from f1fanatic.co.uk

“Having heard from the driver and the technical representatives of the team, and especially reviewing the technical data, the stewards determine that the incident was caused by a serious technical failure completely outside the control of the driver.

“The team is directed to work with the FIA technical delegate in determining the cause of the systems failure.”

[dau]

no I don't think there is a conspiracy. I think it was a smart move from Caterham to protect their driver. I don't know how "the official" has examined the data and I haven't seen it anywhere, but glad to know that all of you know that. Makes me feel safe.

So what's your reasoning for questioning the Stewards' Report?

 

http://184.106.145.7...cument - 52.pdf

Edited by dau, 16 March 2014 - 15:25.

[PayasYouRace]

Given the brake failure, he did well to only take out one other car.

[911]

Massa looks OK to me. Kobayashi's crash looked like a driver error. He saw a gap and he came to fast into the corner, but it is very nice of you to so gladly accept Caterham's explanation. It might even be true. But personally I doubt it.

 

Based on your other comments about this incident, you seemed to be pretty convinced that it was Kobayashi's fault regardless of the official findings of the crash (i.e. FIA determining it was a rear brake failure).  So, I'm not sure what else you know about this incident that the FIA and Caterham don't.

[billm99uk]

Given the brake failure, he did well to only take out one other car.

Looking at the start, there was no real gap to aim for, and I think he got a slight deflection from Raikkonen(?)

[Clatter]

Looking at the start, there was no real gap to aim for, and I think he got a slight deflection from Raikkonen(?)

Think he took a wheel off with that knock before getting to Massa.

[muramasa]

I think what Kobayashi initially said was that he braked at the same time as everyone else, but the car just wouldn't slow down like everyone else around him, but he was careful to suggest that there was something wrong with the car immediately and thus speculated on cold tyres and longer braking required distance compared to the cars ahead due to less downforce. I'm glad for him that it was a car failure in the end and better luck next race!

That's basically what he implied.

http://www.f1-stinge.../16/050958.html

 

- at first right after the mess of the crash he wasnt sure exactly what happened, and suspected his sense was funny and wrong as they havent done proper race simulation in testing and tried proper evaluation run under cold tyre circumstance yet, so that apologized. So he initially thought like, "did cold tyres not grip this much? Thought I braked early and careful enough (as he made sure he would do so in post-quali interview yesterday), but only me faster and locking? has F1's 1st lap been like this? " But later found out he had zero brake in the rear.

 

- he also reflected that, during formation lap he was actually told that energy recovery isnt being made, so if he had understood it deeper and foreseen the issue and possible causes better, it might have been different consequence, but at the time of the start he believed in the car 100%, so it happened as a result of doing it just normally. He wants to go to next races by reviewing and further improving communication b/w the team one by one as wel as sorting out the cause.

 

I'd think if actually felt such thing as recovery failure and lack of braking, a driver would easily notice even under formation lap. Also team should surely be able to see it in telemetry too and give him warning/instruction. So despite the recovery deficiency that was going on and being understood at pitwall, brake feel itself as well as data shouldve been ok at least during formation lap, i guess. Software/bbw issue is quite plausible it seems.

[Jimisgod]

Massa looks like a complete **** now.
I remember some of his wet races when he looked like complete amateur, and now this toolish words.

And now the Williams is looking like one of the two top dry cars... but Massa is still moaning like he did through his Ferrari years.

I think Bottas will break him mentally.

[bernardv]

And now the Williams is looking like one of the two top dry cars... but Massa is still moaning like he did through his Ferrari years.

I think Bottas will break him mentally.

So many Massa haters out there, not sure what he did to deserve it. Get a life guys.

[billm99uk]

Hold onto a prime seat with few tangible results since his crash that many people had reserved for their 'favourite' driver, I imagine? Hulkenburg fans having the most to moan about, of course.

On the braking issue, wonder if this is a team issue or a Renault one? ECU?

Hope the factory is on 24hr a day new nose production too ;)

Edited by billm99uk, 16 March 2014 - 17:39.

[superden]

Kobayashi - Inexecusable (sic) blunder?

 

No, it would seem not. Score one for knee jerk threads created without the benefit of the full facts.

[bub]

Didn't think it was Kamui's fault. He's experienced and it would be uncharacteristic for him to make such an error. Massa was a bit harsh but I can understand his feelings. He was obviously upset at his race being ruined and the incident was dangerous but you should always make sure it was actually somebody's fault before blaming them. Kobayashi's race was also ruined and he could have got hurt too. 

Edited by bub, 16 March 2014 - 17:52.

[chipmcdonald]

Obviously rear brake failure.

 

 

[XOR]

typical_felipe_baby_emotions.jpg

BTW, how about to resurrect Kobi's thread?

[billm99uk]

typical_felipe_baby_emotions.jpg

BTW, how about to resurrect Kobi's thread?

 

Driver threads were banned I think?

[darkkis]

Not that this crash was his fault but still.. I can't understand the amount of Kobayashi lovers around here.. Is it just because he's japanese? I mean he hasn't done anything particularly amazing during his years in F1.

Edited by darkkis, 16 March 2014 - 18:25.

[bub]

Not that this crash was his fault but still.. I can't understand the amount of Kobayashi lovers around here.. Is it just because he's japanese? I mean he hasn't done anything particularly amazing during his years in F1.

 

Exciting style and nice personality. Not everyone is a glory supporter.

[911]

Not that this crash was his fault but still.. I can't understand the amount of Kobayashi lovers around here.. Is it just because he's japanese? I mean he hasn't done anything particularly amazing during his years in F1.

 

Since you are asking, I like Kamui because he shows a fighting spirit on the track that's a breath of fresh air.  Yes, he does make mistakes on occasions, and I would like to see him more consistent in the races, but he is exciting to watch.

[Tenmantaylor]

It looked like it was Kobas fault but its easily done when you're in the middle like that as you lose your static trackside reference points. Shame for Massa, he was on for a great race if Bottas' pace was anything to go by.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 16 March 2014 - 19:38.

[Wander]

It looked like it was Kobas fault but its easily done when you're in the middle like that as you lose your static trackside reference points. Shame for Massa, he was on for a great race if Bottas' pace was anything to go by.

 

In case you didn't know, it has been confirmed to not be his fault. His rear brakes didn't work.

Edited by Wander, 16 March 2014 - 20:12.

[Tenmantaylor]

Ah ok didn't see the posts confirming that. Shame for the race, hope not a recurring failure, one of the worst failures that can happen to a racing driver along with a stuck throttle.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 16 March 2014 - 20:20.