154 replies to this topic

[fezzer]

http://www.manilatim...oo-quiet/83207/

[7MGTEsup]

I didn't think there was a minimum noise level in a circuits contract.

[Paul Prost]

Ron Walker is such an idiot

 

"And in other breaking news, old white man is frightened of change"

[krapmeister]

It's just Ron going into bat for his mate Bernie...

[A.Fant]

So one group has been complaining for years that the Melbourne GP is too loud, and now another is complaining it is too quiet? Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess...

[krapmeister]

I am sure the 'Save Albert Park' group were happy with the quieter F1 cars, however I dare say the F-18 flyovers still pi$$ed them off somewhat along with everything else...

[FredrikB]

Off course, the only reason Bernie was concerned about the sound of the new cars was that it could cost him money. 

[Massa_f1]

The Grand Prix needs to sell tickets. I did hear a lot of fans who were at the track were not impressed with the how quiet the new cars are. I don't think I would pay current F1 prices which have been high enough as it is for several years now to go and see this new formula. It has lost some of it's wow factor. I am not saying things have to be as loud as the V8's but I think they need to be louder than they currently are. That or drop the ticket prices (which I know will never happen)

Edited by Massa_f1, 17 March 2014 - 12:01.

[Seanspeed]

Must say, my motivation to go see a race this year isn't very high. The lack of sound is a big part of that.

[stuartbrs]

The Porsche 991 support cars, Mercedes V8 Supercar, Mercedes Pace car, Circuit PA system, crowd, Maserati 250F in the demo, and the Hoodoo Guru`s were all louder than the F1 cars... the FA18 was epic...

 

There was an audible groan from our stand when Coulthard screamed past in the RB7 for the speed comparison.. the new engines don't sound bad, but they just aren't F1 as we have become accustomed... they certainly sound better than they did in 1985.

 

The best thing about being at the track, was not having to endure Channel 10`s excruciating "lifestyle and celebrity" Australian GP coverage... something that is WAY more offensive in noise than the new engines. Channel 9 hurt GP racing in Australia when they had the rights, but their Australian coverage was excellent compared to the crap channel 10 puke through my screen each year.

[pdac]

The Grand Prix needs to sell tickets. I did hear a lot of fans who were at the track were not impressed with the how quiet the new cars are. I don't think I would pay current F1 prices which have been high enough as it for several years now to go and see this new formula. It has lost some of it's wow factor. I am not saying things have to as loud as the V8's but I think they need to be louder than they currently are. That or drop the ticket prices (which I know will never happen)

 

It's something new, though. It won't stop them from continuing to attend and, I would suggest, no one will be mentioning it much in a year or two, except when reminiscing on 'the old days'.

[Jamiednm]

I don't know if this issue is going to go away with time...I think we'll have a lot more complaints like this from circuits.

 

It's obvious that the lack of noise drastically takes away from the sense of GPs being massive events somewhat - and that will affect ticket sales.

[Lotus53B]

Noise is energy being lost.

As engines become more efficient, they will get quieter.  It's called progress, and I'm, even at my ripe old age, a fan.

The first race I attended mixed F1 and F5000, and it was absolutely deafening.  Over the years things have become progressively quieter, and as time passes they will get quieter still.

 

The last race I attended, okay, it was Spa '98, so it's a while back, I'd say over half the folk in the stand wore hearing defenders, so you know, not everyone wants it loud.

[Lazy]

I really can't understand why sound would be a major factor for a motorsport enthusiast. It's part of the fun sure but not a deciding factor, seems a very superficial perspective to me.

[Jacobss]

What would I give to bring V12 and V10 back into F1...

[Jon83]

Must say, my motivation to go see a race this year isn't very high. The lack of sound is a big part of that.

 

Mine too Sean. I went to Monza in 2010 and 2011 and would have loved to go back there or elsewhere but without the sound, I just can't see it.

[Jamiednm]

I really can't understand why sound would be a major factor for a motorsport enthusiast. It's part of the fun sure but not a deciding factor, seems a very superficial perspective to me.

 

I'm not impressed with the sound, but it doesn't affect my desire to watch every GP - that's the same as ever.

 

I would say it is similar to watching a football match on a Tuesday night where only 20,000 people turn up - you still want to see the match and want your team to win, but the atmosphere is flat and doesn't compare to a Saturday afternoon when 40,000 fanatics are raising the roof. You're watching the same thing, but your perception of it is different. I think the lack of 'wow factor' will prevent a lot of new, young fans becoming interested in F1, simply because the spectacle doesn't capture their attention.

[age]

Maybe attaching a few wind chimes on the end of the wings wold help?      

[Massa_f1]

I really can't understand why sound would be a major factor for a motorsport enthusiast. It's part of the fun sure but not a deciding factor, seems a very superficial perspective to me.

 

Its just one of them things for me. As I suspected the support races are going to be louder then the F1 cars this year. I think for me while the racing may be the same on track it takes away a lot of the atmosphere. Support races being louder than the main event just seems a little backwards to me.

[Jon83]

I really can't understand why sound would be a major factor for a motorsport enthusiast. It's part of the fun sure but not a deciding factor, seems a very superficial perspective to me.

 

Not really - its all part of each individuals experience.

[wepmob2000]

Can't say I'm surprised at all, and I expect this to happen again and again this year. The universal sentiment I've heard from people seeing F1 cars in the flesh for the for the first time is the 'wow' factor at the noise, it certainly had that effect on me, the noise blew me away. Its certainly the major factor in my wanting to attend live events, or was.....

Maybe not this year, but I would suggest it will have a major impact on next years attendances unless something is done, because without that 'wow' factor' - the 'shock and awe' of the noise, what are the advantages of attending a race over watching on the TV? I certainly won't bother shelling out to attend a GP this year, and the lack of noise is the major factor in this. On the other hand I will attend as many historic events as possible, where the noise is like music to my ears :-D

Like it or not, the simple fact is people like noisy and impressive spectacles, you only have to attend an airshow to see that. The incredibly noisy Typhoon is the one people are glued to, but people switch off and buy hotdogs when its something like the very quiet Tucano. That's why the airshow organizers headline their posters with 'Typhoon' or 'F-16' or 'Tornado' and not 'formation glider team'.

It might be the future, but that doesn't mean its better, or that people will prefer it. A lot of things of things from a few years ago were better than the rubbish we get now. Frankly its laughable when the spectacle from supporting races is greater than the F1 race, and this could kill the sport. The noise itself is nice, and the technology is fascinating. I love the fact that technology in F1 is back with something cutting edge and important, rather than the pathetic arcane aero tweaks to circumvent pathetic arcane aero rules we've had for the last few years. But that doesn't mean we should lose a major part of the spectacle....

Edited by wepmob2000, 17 March 2014 - 12:25.

[ReeVe]

One of the most iconic things in f1 is standing anywhere in Monaco and hearing the engines echo around the buildings. This season, after the Aus GP, a couple of people I spoke feel the 2014 Monaco experience will be more akin to hearing a roomba vacuuming. 

 

Yes I know the vast majority of F1 fans consume F1 via the TV so they don't really care, but usually the same fans complain when historic tracks get swapped out for desert tracks. Well like it or not the sound is a major component of watching F1 at the track, so if people are less willing to go pay the ticket prices the more "historic" tracks that are generally not subsidized by random dictatorships will fall by the wayside.

 

But I will reserve judgement till I experience 2014 f1 up close

[V8 Fireworks]

It's something new, though. It won't stop them from continuing to attend and, I would suggest, no one will be mentioning it much in a year or two, except when reminiscing on 'the old days'.

 

F1 will continue to be noticeably quieter than the support classes, not the other way round as previous.

 

This will be very noticeable for fans.

[undersquare]

I am more likely to go now it won't physically hurt.

 

Yes you could stop it hurting by wearing earplugs.  Then what?  What were you listening to exactly?  Muffled loud noise  .

[wepmob2000]

F1 will continue to be noticeably quieter than the support classes, not the other way round as previous.
 
This will be very noticeable for fans.

F1 has a long and distinguished history of absolutely taking its it fans for granted, and assuming that no matter what the fans will continue to support and attend. I kind of hope this is the straw that changes everything....

[Fastcake]

It's just Ron going into bat for his mate Bernie...

I was about to say, I thought Ron Walker was best mates with Bernie. I'm sure there's an ulterior motive at play.

I also have no doubt that for every fan who stops buying tickets because of the noise, there'll be five more taking their place if the prices were dropped.

[V8 Fireworks]

I really can't understand why sound would be a major factor for a motorsport enthusiast. It's part of the fun sure but not a deciding factor, seems a very superficial perspective to me.

 

Yay   

 

 

Blurgh    

 

That's why.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 17 March 2014 - 12:38.

[Lazy]

Formula 1 should have the optimal PU, not the one with the best noise. If the optimal PU is quiet then that is the sound of F1, anything else is just window dressing and I think it would be very hard to argue that these are not the optimal PU's, except maybe the l4's.

 

Tbh it will great if loads of people lose interest, prices will go down, easier to get to circuits, maybe even back on free TV And if the sound stops them coming, they weren't really that interested in the first place.

[peroa]

If you want to attend a race for the noise there will always be a lot of it.

GP3, GP2, Porsche SuperCup

Especialy the Porsches are very loud and IMHO even more unpleasant than last year's V8, at least that was my impression from last year at Monza.

[Lazy]

Yay   

 

 

Blurgh    

 

That's why.

Well exactly my point, those aren't racing cars, they're penis substitutes, exactly the opposite of what F1's about. I suspect most of the noise whingers would agree with you though.

[wepmob2000]

Formula 1 should have the optimal PU, not the one with the best noise. If the optimal PU is quiet then that is the sound of F1, anything else is just window dressing and I think it would be very hard to argue that these are not the optimal PU's, except maybe the l4's.
 
Tbh it will great if loads of people lose interest, prices will go down, easier to get to circuits, maybe even back on free TV And if the sound stops them coming, they weren't really that interested in the first place.

Well, I'm very interested, but the lack of sound means I won't bother attending a GP this year, I'm better off watching at home. Being able to feel these cars was the major reason for my being ripped off with ticket prices, having very little access to anything, seeing a fraction of the on-track action, etc.

[Jazza]

Well they already lost my money. I saw no point in going to Melbourne this year with out the noise. You can get a much better experience of the race on TV these days. The only thing the TV could never capture was the sheer power as the cars screamed by. Well that's gone now, so why sit in the 4 seasons of Melbourne weather to just see cars drive past about 50 meters away from the stand through a steel fence? It would be like going to the footy and watching it from inside a sound proof box. The only point of watching any sport in person instead of sitting at home watching it from every possible camera angle on a massive HD digital TV is for the atmosphere. The sound of the cars is a huge part of the F1 atmosphere.

[wepmob2000]

Well they already lost my money. I saw no point in going to Melbourne this year with out the noise. You can get a much better experience of the race on TV these days. The only thing the TV could never capture was the sheer power as the cars screamed by. Well that's gone now, so why sit in the 4 seasons of Melbourne weather to just see cars drive past about 50 meters away from the stand through a steel fence? It would be like going to the footy and watching it from inside a sound proof box. The only point of watching any sport in person instead of sitting at home watching it from every possible camera angle on a massive HD digital TV is for the atmosphere. The sound of the cars is a huge part of the F1 atmosphere.

From my point of view, I couldn't have put it better, there's just no point suffering the inconveniences, high prices, and all the other drawbacks of attending in person.

[Jon83]

Formula 1 should have the optimal PU, not the one with the best noise. If the optimal PU is quiet then that is the sound of F1, anything else is just window dressing and I think it would be very hard to argue that these are not the optimal PU's, except maybe the l4's.

 

Tbh it will great if loads of people lose interest, prices will go down, easier to get to circuits, maybe even back on free TV And if the sound stops them coming, they weren't really that interested in the first place.

 

I guess you and others can't wait for it to take over from Formula E then.

[monaco2]

My introduction to a live Formula One experience was walking down from the train station to our stands in Monaco and hearing the amazing sound of the engines reverberating against the tall buildings of the principality! Shrieking but beautiful sounds amidst the colour of the weekend racing experience.

[Alexis*27]

I am more likely to go now it won't physically hurt.

 

Yes you could stop it hurting by wearing earplugs.  Then what?  What were you listening to exactly?  Muffled loud noise  .

 

The only time my ears ever hurt was when I was 2metres away from a 2008 BMW V8 doing doughnuts. I still wanted it louder!

 

I've never seen the need to earplugs in a grandstand 50 metres away. It's never been TOO loud.

[V8 Fireworks]

Well exactly my point, those aren't racing cars, they're penis substitutes, exactly the opposite of what F1's about

 

Well this is hardly a *ahem* substitue 

 

Naturally aspirated + H pattern manual + flames come out the side = fun. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 17 March 2014 - 13:02.

[wepmob2000]

My introduction to a live Formula One experience was walking down from the train station to our stands in Monaco and hearing the amazing sound of the engines reverberating against the tall buildings of the principality! Shrieking but beautiful sounds amidst the colour of the weekend racing experience.

Mine was seeing, hearing, and feeling the 1994 Williams Renault at very close proximity, on an installation lap, followed by the Ferrari from that year. I already loved F1, but my love for F1 grew exponentially in those few seconds. Can't quite imagine a 2014 spec car having the same effect....

[wepmob2000]

Well exactly my point, those aren't racing cars, they're penis substitutes, exactly the opposite of what F1's about. I suspect most of the noise whingers would agree with you though.

Have you seen the noses of the 2014 cars? :-p Germaine Greer would have a field day....

[PayasYouRace]

Well exactly my point, those aren't racing cars, they're penis substitutes, exactly the opposite of what F1's about. I suspect most of the noise whingers would agree with you though.

 

Well some of this year's cars appear to be both, but well put

[Arn]

As a TV viewer I don't find the missing loud sound so important, but as a spectator at a race venue I would miss it a lot, partly because you actually hear the cars more than you see them.

[SonnyViceR]

The complaint is justified, although technically speaking the crowds of Melbourne did have the chance to hear V8 Formula 1 engine circulating Albert Park four separate times last weekend (Ultimate Speed Comparison).

 

Anyway as comparison, even though the turbodiesel LMP1s engines sound like vaccuum cleaners when compared to (non-Porsche) petrol P1s and P2s, they're still more interesting to listen than those... things mandated for F1. Also the hybrid activation sounds on Audis are actually rather neat. And of course they pass V8s and V10 GTs etc all the time so the sound world is obviously on another level

 

Plus you can tell them apart, F1 Merc / Renault / Ferrari all sound exactly the same to my ear.

 

It should be funny when Porsche Supercup (/other guest Carrera Cup or Ferrari Challenge) support races will be the loudest and roughest sounding pieces all F1 wekend.

[Fastcake]

The only time my ears ever hurt was when I was 2metres away from a 2008 BMW V8 doing doughnuts. I still wanted it louder!

I've never seen the need to earplugs in a grandstand 50 metres away. It's never been TOO loud.

This is something that varies from person to person. If you'd check some of the threads on the topic, you'll discover there are a lot of people who have suffered listening to the high-pitched V8s.

[wepmob2000]

This is something that varies from person to person. If you'd check some of the threads on the topic, you'll discover there are a lot of people who have suffered listening to the high-pitched V8s.

Never really liked the wasp-ish shriek of the late V8's personally. My personal favourites are the lower revving engines from the 1970's, they're loud but not painfully so, and make a real impact without the need for ear protection. I really like the sound of the new power-trains, its just the volume is too quiet.

[yasushi888]

I would say it is similar to watching a football match on a Tuesday night where only 20,000 people turn up - you still want to see the match and want your team to win, but the atmosphere is flat and doesn't compare to a Saturday afternoon when 40,000 fanatics are raising the roof. You're watching the same thing, but your perception of it is different. I think the lack of 'wow factor' will prevent a lot of new, young fans becoming interested in F1, simply because the spectacle doesn't capture their attention.

 

Thats very true, but at least in football you still have the big games where you have the atmosphere. F1 at the moment is more like the World Cup Final with only 20,000 people turning up, (Football is waiting to let that happen though - Qatar 2022, it will probably be double goals by then aswell)

[SenorSjon]

Compare it to the Europa League which plays for half or quarter filled stadiums.

[HoldenRT]

The Grand Prix needs to sell tickets. I did hear a lot of fans who were at the track were not impressed with the how quiet the new cars are. I don't think I would pay current F1 prices which have been high enough as it is for several years now to go and see this new formula. It has lost some of it's wow factor. I am not saying things have to be as loud as the V8's but I think they need to be louder than they currently are. That or drop the ticket prices (which I know will never happen)

 

They seem more like a hybrid of road cars/open wheelers.. not just the sound, but all of it, and while that's good and all.. it's not really what you expect from F1.  The pinnacle..

[pdac]

I thought there was already a thread about the sound of the new engines. I though this thread was specifically about the possible breach of contract at the Australian GP.

 

Does anyone have any more details about what might be in the contract pertaining to engine sounds? Someone eluded to the support races. Perhaps the disagreement is about whether any mention of the levels relates to the event as a whole or specifically to the F1 part.

[Buttoneer]

I thought there was already a thread about the sound of the new engines. I though this thread was specifically about the possible breach of contract at the Australian GP.

 

It is and I agree - can we all get back on topic please? Screaming, whining, moaning, or any other configuration of cylinders not allowed.

[EthanM]

I thought there was already a thread about the sound of the new engines. I though this thread was specifically about the possible breach of contract at the Australian GP.

 

Does anyone have any more details about what might be in the contract pertaining to engine sounds? Someone eluded to the support races. Perhaps the disagreement is about whether any mention of the levels relates to the event as a whole or specifically to the F1 part.

 

I doubt there is a contract specific to sounds

 

I guess the general principle of the thing is if say random stadium paid the NFL (or UEFA) money to host the superbowl (or the Champions League final) and then the NFL (UEFA) said ok but fans may only golf clap during the game, no loud noises, chanting etc then the stadium might argue the product it paid for had significantly changed