22 replies to this topic

[Nustang70]

I resurrected my old chart to update it with 2013 figures.  

 

 

This chart indicates the percentage of available Constructors Championship points for each of the teams displayed, demonstrating how how the fortunes of some of the most important F1 teams have waxed and waned.  Cheers. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note: Milton Keyes = (Stewart, Jaguar, Red Bull); Brackley = (BAR, Honda, Brawn, Mercedes); Enstone = (Toleman, Benetton, Renault, Lotus).

 

I reinstated Mclaren's 2007 points. I did this for 2 reasons: first, it would have skewed the data since Mclaren's finishing positions weren't wiped from the record the way Tyrrell's were in 1984, bumping lower teams up the finishing order; and second, the FIA didn't strip Mclaren's drivers of their points, which suggested the disqualification was due to politics rather than cheating in a manner than made the championships objectionably unfair. 

 

Edit: see post below for updated chart with 2014 positions.  I can't figure out how to change the thread title. 

Edited by Nustang70, 24 November 2014 - 19:19.

[Collombin]

the disqualification was due to politics rather than cheating in a manner than made the championships objectionably unfair

Exactly what I would have said about the Tyrrell 1984 DQ.......

[PayasYouRace]

If you're tracking the competitiveness of teams over the years, I think the Tyrrell results in 1984 should be included to reflect their level in the pecking order that year. The 012 raced perfectly legally in 1982 and 85 too.

[noikeee]

Cool graph. I didn't realize just how competitive BRM were in the 60s, interesting.

 

I suspect the modern bright red area is going to expand a bit if you update this graph in 1 year time. 

[DampMongoose]

Cool graph. I didn't realize just how competitive BRM were in the 60s, interesting.

 

I suspect the modern bright red area is going to expand a bit if you update this graph in 1 year time. 

 

Yes winners once and runners up the following 3 years at one point... Don't forget though that during their heyday Constructors Points were given on a very different basis.  Signifcantly many teams on the grid at the time weren't eligible for Constructors points either as they didn't build their own chassis, they were running customer Lotus and Cooper's etc.

Edited by DampMongoose, 20 March 2014 - 11:56.

[ensign14]

I'd've tied Brackley in with Tyrrell.  Took over the entry, the legal entity, some staff.  Did the BAR have a Tyrrell sticker on it as well?

[Imateria]

^Might have taken over the entry but for 99 most of the staff went to Honda for their test car. I think it's pretty safe to say that Tyrrell died in 98, BAR was effectively built from the ground up but by buying Tyrrell were able to dodge the ₤40 million entry fee.

[Jejking]

Awesome work, it really gives a good view on what has happened in F1 so far in one graph. Well done

[wepmob2000]

Great chart, and great work!

Does anyone know if any of the old Tyrrell staff are still with Mercedes as it is now? I've always looked upon the Brackley teams as the spiritual heirs to that great team, even if its probably not an accurate reflection?

Edited by wepmob2000, 20 March 2014 - 13:43.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'd've tied Brackley in with Tyrrell.  Took over the entry, the legal entity, some staff.  Did the BAR have a Tyrrell sticker on it as well?

 

It's a weird one. Didn't they buy and run Tyrrell for the 98 season? And then took their own entry and tore it up. Everyone had to reapply for their jobs basically. 

[Nustang70]

If you're tracking the competitiveness of teams over the years, I think the Tyrrell results in 1984 should be included to reflect their level in the pecking order that year. The 012 raced perfectly legally in 1982 and 85 too.

Well, I could do this as a separate graph if it pleases folks (though they only had 13 points, so it won't make much of a splash).  Honestly, I was too young to watch back then, and I'm only as familiar with that situation as the wikipedia entry provides.  Can anyone point me to a site that has the amended results with Tyrrell included?  Otherwise I'd need to rebuild the championship table for 1984.

[Nustang70]

It's a weird one. Didn't they buy and run Tyrrell for the 98 season? And then took their own entry and tore it up. Everyone had to reapply for their jobs basically. 

Yeah, they bought and ran Tyrrell in 98, but the '99 car was designed by Reynard and operated out of a new facility at Brackley.  The team also doesn't claim the heritage of Tyrrell, which distinguishes it from Enstone, for example, which still claims Toleman heritage and used Toleman facilities and staff when Benetton purchased it.   

[PayasYouRace]

Well, I could do this as a separate graph if it pleases folks (though they only had 13 points, so it won't make much of a splash).  Honestly, I was too young to watch back then, and I'm only as familiar with that situation as the wikipedia entry provides.  Can anyone point me to a site that has the amended results with Tyrrell included?  Otherwise I'd need to rebuild the championship table for 1984.

 

It's probably not worth redoing it actually.

[Lazy]

Great job. I would have thought Renault would have made a dent in there somewhere.

[Nustang70]

Great job. I would have thought Renault would have made a dent in there somewhere.

I'd considered it, but the original team lasted less than a decade, so I left it out.  They are the major cause for the sharp increase in "Other" during the early 80s.  

[Boing 2]

How is this read? if a team has a band between 60% and 80% does that mean you read the top line i.e. 80% or the width of the band i.e. 20%?

 

Very interesting to see it graphically, I think it would benefit from doubling the horizontal scale though.

[Gorma]

How is this read? if a team has a band between 60% and 80% does that mean you read the top line i.e. 80% or the width of the band i.e. 20%?

 

Width of the band.

[Nustang70]

 

Here's the updated chart with 2014 data included.  

[Nustang70]

And here's one for GP2/F3000.

 

[Risil]

That "Other" never really got to grips with GP2, huh?

[FerrariV12]

Nice effort - wondering would it be too much of a stretch to consider iSport the continuation of the Den Bla Avis/Petrobras F3000 team, it probably is as a new company with the same people in charge but yeah.

 

EDIT: I see you only count Williams from their rebirth as a new entity in 1977 in a similar situation (same boss, new company), so that probably answers my question

Edited by FerrariV12, 24 November 2014 - 20:12.

[Nustang70]

Nice effort - wondering would it be too much of a stretch to consider iSport the continuation of the Den Bla Avis/Petrobras F3000 team, it probably is as a new company with the same people in charge but yeah.

 

EDIT: I see you only count Williams from their rebirth as a new entity in 1977 in a similar situation (same boss, new company), so that probably answers my question

I thought iSport was a completely different entity that just absorbed some of the staff from the old Den Bla Avis/Petrobras Junior outfit?  But I don't really know that history very well.  

 

I did include Russian Time as a continuation of iSport in 2013, even though Motopark ran the team that year and iSport didn't run the entry until 2014.

[Nustang70]

That "Other" never really got to grips with GP2, huh?

Most of other teams in F3000 didn't join the GP2.  I could've added some in, but I was concerned it would've crowded the chart too much.