72 replies to this topic

[spacekid]

Anything is possible in F1.

However.

I sometimes feel this board is far too reactionary. Renault have had their problems so far, we all know that, but one race into anew era and their engine isn't anywhere near as bad as people though it would be after testing. Sure the unit in the back of Sebs car let go, but Lewis' Merc also had problems.

It has only been 1 race, and Renault are a team with a lot of F1 experience, and a close relationship to Red Bull. Far too early to be talking of a split.

[Fastcake]

Red Bull Mercedes won't ever happen.

 

Maybe Red Bull Honda in 2016.

 

or a Red Bull Porsche.

 

or A Red Bull Red Bull ( RB buys Cosworth or whatever is needed for an own engine) in 2021

 

But what do they need a Merc enigne for! Double points will hand the WDC to Vettel.

 

Red Bull aren't buying a engine manufacturer. That's so far out of their business as to be unthinkable.

 

We had this discussion before Melbourne, when the Renaults were lucky to complete a dozen consecutive laps. It would be utterly foolish for Red Bull to contemplate leaving Renault, after building themselves up as their primary customer, based on the results of one year. There is very little to gain by switching after just one year, and in the process losing the very close relationship they have with their current engine supplier. That's before you start to mention Infiniti, who are there as part of the same Renault-Nissan family.

[LoudHoward]

I think RBR have proved it's been better to be the big swinging d*#^ with the #2 or #3 engine than it is to be just another customer getting the trickle down from the big team, even if you do have the best engine. All the exhaust blowing cylinder-cutting-fuel sloshing trickery they've done with Renault over the last few years has paid off massively, and it may well again once they get through this hump, especially if in 6-12 months the engine is a match for the Merc! 

 

It's been good for Renault too, the RBR drivers were always chirpy in the post race pressers, mentioning Renault at any opportunity. It's a solid partnership and it will continue in my opinion.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

No chance. The move would probably show up the works Mercedes team in all honesty.

Red Bull still probably have the best chassis, blown diffuser tricks or not. A Merc engine in the back would be kicking sand in the eyes of Toto's team.

[andrewf1]

[aifol]

What do you mean"if" McLaren go with Honda, the deal was signed last year and they'll be a full works team with Honda putting in money to try and make sure they win.

 

You are right it is what I meant, I abused of literal translation.

[Lazy]

Q: (Ralf Bach - R&B) Kevin, one question: I think Mercedes is a very good engine. Would you like to stay with it next year?
NR: Careful. He’s really dangerous so best to say no comment.
KM: No comment.
NR: When he asks a question, no comment.
KM: I’m happy just to be with McLaren. I think what Mercedes and McLaren have done together is amazing and really looking forward to what’s coming ahead.

Kudos to Nico.

[PayasYouRace]

Are there any rumours about who could pick up the McLaren Mercedes engine deal, or will Merc simply downsize to 3 teams?

[slideways]

There's another side to this that people are missing here, Infiniti. Aren't they fronting up a lot of cash to cover the Renault engine costs and then some? Bye-bye Renault means bye-bye Infiniti sponsorship and RB having to buy their engines themselves and loosing that money for car development.

Red Bull have already announced the Infiniti deal will conclude this season.

They pursued a Mercedes deal in 2010 for supply from 2011 onwards. Norbert Haug at Mercedes wanted it to happen but admitted it was vetoed by McLaren who at that time had preferential status among Mercedes customers.

[Rinehart]

I think it would be a daft move by Mercedes, unless they can get RBR to pay in Adrian Neweys and Sebastian Vettels. 

[slideways]

I think the timing is all wrong for it to happen with Merc. More likely they entice a new manufacturer into a works deal, or jump on with Honda if they have a proper go at it. Don't see Ferrari ever letting a customer beat them.

[FenderJaguar]

LOL

[FullThrottleF1]

RB has nowhere to go, they have no choice but to stick with Renault.

[RB1]

I think the timing is all wrong for it to happen with Merc. More likely they entice a new manufacturer into a works deal, or jump on with Honda if they have a proper go at it. Don't see Ferrari ever letting a customer beat them.

 

I was thinking about a similar point last weekend.

 

Mercedes have to give the same hardware to all the engine customers but I'm not sure about the software. The cynic in me thinks Mercedes works team engine software is giving them a significant advantage over their customers. We've all heard from recent Renault and Ferrari comments how important it is to get all the ERS working in harmony with the ICE. Mercedes are over 1 seconds clear of McLaren, which would mean, if engine software is the same for the customers, the Mercedes is a hell of lot better than the McLaren in terms of mechanical and aero grip. Apart from last year, McLaren have always been very good in this department, so I find it hard to believe they are that far back. Does anyone know if PU control software has to be the same for all the customers.

 

Also, the Mercedes team were the only mercedes powered team who were having trouble with reliability, so is their ERS control software pushing the limits of the hardware more than the customers software?

 

For the last two years people have been saying how important it is to be with a works team. Lewis' decision to move to Mercedes in 2013 and Kimi with his move to Ferrari.

 

So, back on topic, I don't think Red Bull would want a customer deal from Mercedes. The only other option is to try and entice a new engine manufacturer, like the VW group, which they apparently were doing a few years ago but to no avail.

[skyfolker]

Red Bull have already announced the Infiniti deal will conclude this season.

No,there were reports that Infiniti wouldn't extend that deal after 2015.

[rodlamas]

He may not have any say in the matter.

Ron is Ron.

Nobody is better than him.

Prost, Senna, Lauda, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Lewis, and now KMag.

The history speaks for itself.

[David1976]

I would think this is unlikely Merc would supply Red Bull with an engine.  Merc, with their own engine, have an opportunity to have a competitive advantage over their key rivals.

Money may talk, but I don't think fizzy drink money talks loud enough against Merc's own corporate agenda.

Edited by David1976, 21 March 2014 - 14:58.

[Merkaa]

I think it would be a daft move by Mercedes, unless they can get RBR to pay in Adrian Neweys and Sebastian Vettels. 

Just Neweys thanks, everybody knows this.

[zztopless1]

 

Please refrain from using my future wife in your memes.

Edited by zztopless1, 21 March 2014 - 15:20.

[slideways]

No,there were reports that Infiniti wouldn't extend that deal after 2015.

Maybe it's 2015. If they have to start paying like a customer again, it would make sense to go to tender.

[Clatter]

Ron is Ron.

Nobody is better than him.

Prost, Senna, Lauda, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Lewis, and now KMag.

The history speaks for itself.

What does a list of drivers have to do with a discussion about engines?

[LORDBYRON]

No,there were reports that Infiniti wouldn't extend that deal after 2015.

 

the reason why is simple Infiniti , is the luxury vehicle division of Japanese automaker Nissan Motor Company.and renault own (43.4%) off them so this is why Infiniti pay for the redbull engines so inefect after 2015 witch is when redbull can aslo get out of the deal with renault deal why would nissan/renualt/infinity want to help sponsor merc or what ever team redbull go with

Edited by iii, 23 March 2014 - 19:24.

[SpartanChas]

Didn't Red Bull want Mercedes for 2010? They got vetoed by McLaren or something.

I'd hate to see it happen though. Who wants RBR to have the best power unit and chassis? Would be bad for the sport.

Edit http://www.f1fanatic...-mercedes-deal/

Last few years might have been better if they went Cossie.

Edited by SpartanChas, 24 March 2014 - 10:25.