79 replies to this topic

[Romulan]

Not sure if this is the appropriate section, but...

 

I've just graduated from a prestigious university in Italy, completing a Finance, Economics and Management program, focusing mainly on Marketing/PR. Of course like any F1 nut or motorsport enthusiast without an engineering degree, I have dreamt about working in motorsport, and especially in Formula 1. But there are not so many opportunities out there for non-engineers. 

 

Sure, there are occasional internship programs where 2 out of 20,000 get the job. But let's be realistic - it's Mission Impossible 5 with this kind of thing. I've been starting with lower categories: GP3. Most teams are either not hiring, or hiring engineers [insert furious middle finger here]. I've moved on to Moto GP, where most jobs (even entry-level) require 1 to 2 years of experience in the motorsport industry. Needing experience to get experience to get a job where you need experience - the vicious circle of death in job hunting and most graduates know what I'm talking about. Sent a couple of e-mails to NASCAR teams, no replies, gave a few phone calls to some circuits, most of them hung up or told me to crawl back inside my creator (not explicitly but I understood it that way). 

 

So besides bickering (and we have enough of that here on 2014 sounds and whatnot) what's my point, you ask? How does one get a job in Formula 1 with a management/finance/economics related degree and what's the general route you need to take? Where's the best place to get experience in motorsport and what are some user suggestions, perhaps from members who work or have worked in motorsport previously? 

 

 

I can tell you what to do, but only your work ethic will make a difference in your life.  I volunteered to scrape mud off of the above car for two seasons.  I considered myself lucky because the owner paid for my mechanic's license and one uniform.  Every machine-head in the crew went from scraper to tires to sheet-metal/chassis and then on to other parts of the car.  And while some of the best mechanics were always at risk of being hired away, the driver/owner was constantly testing for other NASCAR divisions too.

 

Do you have any lower division, local racer's that live or work in your neighborhood?  I would seek out the locals first because this would reduce your need to travel excessively. A lot people volunteer to work but never show up, so don't be surprised if you need to hang around in order to be taken seriously.  Get a job as a crew member doing anything -- but also remind people that you are quite capable of keeping the books.

 

The cream always rises to the top:

1. Show up early and stay late. 

2. Always perform your duty as if the championship depended on your good work.

3. You need to be hyper-aware of your surroundings.  Like any job, you'll see patterns emerge in the work.  You've got to learn when to help and when to stay out of the way.

 

Leadership roles:

1. Never exaggerate your importance.  Never tell anyone you just graduated from a "prestigious university."

2. No matter how low or shitty, never complain about your work.

3. If your boss or crew chief is responsible for your hours, never volunteer to quit. 

4. Never take someone's work unless instructed to do so.

5. Stay off of your phone.

Edited by Romulan, 21 March 2014 - 06:30.

[BullHead]

I think that's the other thing that can't be overlooked. Working in motorsport can very much become like a normal job. Boredom, office politics, everything. And you run the risk of not only getting 'used' to racing, but actually not being as fascinated by it anymore. You see how the sausage is made.

 

Oh yes. I do beleive this absolutely. Best stay a fan. Work for great money in another industry - spend it as a fan. The love will then not be lost. Or, better still, get working in a business that sponsors the sport, and work up to being on the VIP guest list. Nice

[BullHead]

Romulan - that's good advice to get and keep a good job for any business / industry if it's where someone wants to be.

[JRizzle86]

Governed by engineers but it lives off money. Go for it.

You don't have good engineers, you don't have good car, you don't make money. 

 

On the other hand if you have someone who can pull in sponsors, to bring in money, to pay good Engineers, to make an even better car. Then you can make even more money.

Edited by JRizzle86, 21 March 2014 - 08:29.

[Jovanotti]

Bocconi ?

Have you checked the Red Bull Graduate Programme? http://www.redbullgr...teprogramme.eu/

Apart from being a regular trainee programme for students of your qualification, I guess Red Bull has one of the most permeable corporate structures where you, if you put a lot of effort in it, could well end up in the department you want. Red Bull is by far the most marketing-driven F1 team, which means they probably hire many more non-engineers than other teams.

 

Plus, if it doesn't work out and you don't make it to an F1-related position, Red Bull certainly is a very interesting employer, whatever section you're working in. Considering applying there myself btw   

[sopa]

Good and interesting posts here, food for thought.

 

Considering the status of F1, basically it requires absolute top-level professionals in any kind of job they might offer, which means that only few will ever get there, even if many people like to dream.

 

Another thing depends on which kind of personality/character someone is. It may be a nice dream, but would it really work out for me if I was there? Because people in F1 teams, who travel across the globe for almost 20 race weekends, may rarely see their families. And needless to say, it is very energy-consuming as well. It is a heavy compromise to make. We all need to think, which compromise are we prepared to take in lives. And whether it really suits us as well.

 

Best advice I can give. Keeping an open mind, avoid getting too fixated about things or goals, because life situations can change a lot even in one year based on how you advance with your career. Do whatever you can possibly do in your current situation. And then see, what happens, where does it lead to, which opportunities may arise.

 

But most importantly, how do we personally feel with each activity/job we get. How does it suit us, which kind of thoughts or career plans does it lead to. So we can never forget self-analysing, we are learning about ourselves with each activity. That's how we can go forward.

Edited by sopa, 21 March 2014 - 09:57.

[LuckyStrike1]

No, one doesn't. 

[HeidfeldsBeard]

I feel your pain but it's like a lot of jobs with top-line companies - It's as much about who you know as what you know. An acquaintance of mine landed an internship with Red Bull as a junior aerodynamicist a couple of years ago - it turned out that his father knew some important people and while it makes you feel a bit bitter when someone gets a job through contacts, I can't blame them and envy them slightly, wishing I had the same good fortune.

 

I look every week for opportunities in Motorsport and it's rare that I find anything that my skills are ideal for. I have a Maths degree and work as an Insight Analyst and would absolutely love to get a job as a performance analyst or a data engineer (or something along those lines) but I know this is only really a pipe-dream. Having said that I did get as far as the interview stage for a role with Williams last year and I was lucky enough to visit Grove. Despite not getting the job (I believe they hired internally) it was a great experience and has given me a ray of hope!

[proviz]

Sopa said above: "Considering the status of F1, basically it requires absolute top-level professionals in any kind of job they might offer, which means that only few will ever get there, even if many people like to dream."

 

This is very likely true of people working on the technical and operational side of things, but most certainly not throughout the personnel allowed in the paddock. I've known quite a few people who went on to work in F1 in PR, hospitality or media and some of them definitely did it without ever impressing in their chosen line of work. Social skills seem to have been the decisive factor.

Things may have changed lately with the reduction of staff numbers, but 10-20 years ago all manner of wannabes managed to find their way to the F1 paddock.

[superden]

Not so long ago, a degree (whether it be from a 'prestigious' university or a reformed Polytechnic) did suggest that you were academically gifted, sadly this is no longer the case. Indeed, so many people have a degree now, that they are borderline worthless in the workplace. However, despite the massive increase in graduates, and relative decrease in jobs available at graduate level, the level of expectation of the graduates has not adjusted to suit. It seems, like many graduates these days, that some people think they are owed something merely as a result of having a degree.

[ginek]

If it's not money or luck, then I'm afraid chances are quite flat.

 

Despite a degree in management, asking such question means you don't have enough experience understand basic aspects of how profitable business organizations work. Even if you're bright as a supernova, you will need to build your own people network and get opportunity to show this intelligence.

 

Therefore, the one who ask such question on forum will never come in F1 unless by pure luck (which is like winning a lottery).

 

At this very moment there are many other people, that may be close to F1 even and who have better idea than you (they don't need to ask the question) and working hard to make their chance more probable compared to pure luck.

 

Try to compare the demand (all F1 teams staff  multiplied by yearly attrition rate) and market offer on the other side.

 

On the bright side, you are from Italy, which is country with strong automotive industry as well as all kind of racing herritage.

I'm quite sure you can find something close to racing.

 

[404KF2]

Get a real job instead and make some money, and be prepared to start - as others have said - at or near the bottom.  There is no such thing as a "prestigious" university to any employer.

[king_crud]

Get a real job instead and make some money, and be prepared to start - as others have said - at or near the bottom.  There is no such thing as a "prestigious" university to any employer.

 

I beg to differ, plenty of industries where you need to be an Oxbridge graduate, irrelevant of what your degree was. Philiosophy from Cambridge? Of course you're suitable for middle management straight away

Edited by king_crud, 21 March 2014 - 16:56.

[DampMongoose]

I'm not arguing about Oxbridge graduates being shoehorned into better roles upon leaving, but every one I've met has reminded me of this...

 

[f1fan1998]

You want a job? Loser. Don't bother. Start a business and employ people. 

 

Joking aside (sort of) If you are hell bent on working in Motorsport on the finance / marketing / commercial side, then the below are about the most true truisms posted here so far. 

 

Enjoy being an outside commentator (fan/media) or go work for a private equity company with a history of motorsports ownership.

 

 

Funny thing is, it really is more about character and approach than qualifications. Ask Bernie!

 

These are the questions I would ask you. 

 

1. You have a degree in some intangible commercial field. But... What do you want to do? Is it partner management at a team? Logistics planning? Travel and hospitality? Do you want to work in the marketing department of the team, strategising and planning the key messaging and events opportunities for the current partners? No..? What do you want to do then?

 

2. Where are you based? If in Italy, then your chances are only Torro Rosso and Ferrari, aside from the OEM manufacturers / suppliers. Don't bother with Monza, they have a new management team in place as of this time last year who seem hell bent on ruining it all.

 

3. Will you re-locate? come to England.

 

4. Can you sell?

 

5. Can you sell?

 

6. Did I ask already... can you sell?

 

If you aren't an engineer, then whatever title you have, I will need you to be able to sell the dream of F1 as a marketing tool to each and every corporate in the World. It's a point much missed. For example people assume that a partner manager in a team is there to hold the hand of the sponsor and ensure that their contractual obligations are met. Of course they are. But what no one sees is that the best partner managers, also manage to sell a couple of million pounds worth of additional un-contracted hospitality and travel each year to the partner.

 

Hence... can you sell?

 

I had a goal to work in motorsport, and then one day set up my business in motorsport / F1. I have achieved that. My companies (and hence my) money and my staffs comes exclusively from the World of F1. It puts bread and water on the table each month. 

 

My advice. Keep pushing, be tenacious and network in all the right places, with all the right people. 

[Cyanide]

Some great advice from everyone around here, so thanks for that.

 

I am under no illusion that reaching the top tier from the get go is smooth sailing. Which is why I said that starting from lower categories is likely the way to go. However, I don't necessarily agree that universities don't matter - for example, Bocconi is highly prestigious in Italy and Ferrari or even Pirelli plan events in this university on a yearly basis and they are always in contact. Ferrari actually establish the graduate placements based on the type of university and the grades you received along the years. I believe UK-based teams also prioritize graduates from British universities. 

 

I'll try my luck with suppliers/companies associated with the Formula One Group, FIA or even the teams themselves. They have much lower requirements, at least based on their careers sections. It's a dog eat dog world in there though, so muscling your way through and building contacts + experience is extremely important. 

[Amphicar]

A degree from a good university may be necessary for a job but it is never sufficient on its own. There are plenty of people with good degrees - what employers also want is evidence of the right attitude, enthusiasm, commitment and yes, some experience. You don't only get experience by doing paid work - you can get it by volunteering for example. How about becoming a volunteer marshal at your nearest circuit? Not only will you get useful experience and an opportunity to meet people in the industry and network but it will also show a prospective employer that you have a real passion and commitment to the sport.

 

On the other hand, if you're only interested in doing work if you get paid for it, forget a career in motor sport and become an accountant.

Edited by Amphicar, 21 March 2014 - 22:37.

[wepmob2000]

I beg to differ, plenty of industries where you need to be an Oxbridge graduate, irrelevant of what your degree was. Philiosophy from Cambridge? Of course you're suitable for middle management straight away

Oxbridge degrees do open doors, maybe a couple of the top London universities also, otherwise there's not much point in having a degree unless its a very specific vocational subject.

Edited by wepmob2000, 22 March 2014 - 00:38.

[Nustang70]

I can tell you first hand that it's not easy, and, as others have suggested, you'll probably need a very indirect route to get in.  

 

Here's my own circuitous path to F1 (this is by no means a hard-and-fast blue print--there are lots of ways to skin this cat, and more often than not they still don't work):

 

After graduating high school, I put in a few weeks at a hot dog shop.  It was there that I finally learned the value of money and subsequently quit after realizing that nothing was worth spending money on that I had to earn at the hot dog shop (even a movie ticket didn't seem worth an hour of work there). Still, the coordination and immediacy of fast food preparation left an indelible mark on me and that lesson lends itself well in the world of F1 where the balance between urgency and precision is imperative.  I got a job in big retailer after that, and quickly moved up the ranks in management, becoming the youngest store manager in my district (and, possibly, the company).  I picked up really valuable skills there that have benefited me throughout my life.  After a few years, I realized that my upward mobility in that career would be hamstrung by my lack of a degree, so I stepped down to part time and enrolled in college: two years of general ed, two years of physics, and another two years of history (one way of standing out from the crowd when applying for very selective jobs like those in F1 is to have a unique and diversified skill set).  After that, I enrolled in graduate school studying economic and environmental history, and the confluence of these two subjects proved to be quite fortuitous as the motorsport world was just beginning to embrace "greener" racing.  I should graduate next year and I've already "liked" Mclaren's Facebook page, so I'm just waiting on them to "like" mine back and I'll have my foot in the door.  After that it should be easy to wheedle my way some-crazy-how.  Ron Dennis likes hot dogs, right?

Edited by Nustang70, 22 March 2014 - 00:13.

[garagetinkerer]

Some great advice from everyone around here, so thanks for that.

 

I am under no illusion that reaching the top tier from the get go is smooth sailing. Which is why I said that starting from lower categories is likely the way to go. However, I don't necessarily agree that universities don't matter - for example, Bocconi is highly prestigious in Italy and Ferrari or even Pirelli plan events in this university on a yearly basis and they are always in contact. Ferrari actually establish the graduate placements based on the type of university and the grades you received along the years. I believe UK-based teams also prioritize graduates from British universities. 

 

I'll try my luck with suppliers/companies associated with the Formula One Group, FIA or even the teams themselves. They have much lower requirements, at least based on their careers sections. It's a dog eat dog world in there though, so muscling your way through and building contacts + experience is extremely important. 

I had read previously that Ferrari do hire from local universities. Infact, I had thought about doing a course in Italy for that particular reason alone. I would have had worked for them for free (whatever they'd want me to), as long as food/ shelter and clothing was tended to, no wages were required (would have been considered a bonus really), as i was bachelor then I gave up on that idea, mostly cause i didn't have a pile of money to burn, what with the economy in the dump and prospects looking quite dim for a paying job post a Masters in Business Administration. So yes, if you're lucky, and Ferrari comes to campus, best of luck! One more thing, don't wear a McLaren fan shirt to the interview

[Nemo1965]

I had read previously that Ferrari do hire from local universities. Infact, I had thought about doing a course in Italy for that particular reason alone. I would have had worked for them for free (whatever they'd want me to), as long as food/ shelter and clothing was tended to, no wages were required (would have been considered a bonus really), as i was bachelor then I gave up on that idea, mostly cause i didn't have a pile of money to burn, what with the economy in the dump and prospects looking quite dim for a paying job post a Masters in Business Administration. So yes, if you're lucky, and Ferrari comes to campus, best of luck! One more thing, don't wear a McLaren fan shirt to the interview

 

Except, ofcourse, if you wear AND a McLaren shirt and happen to haul a ten-pound heavy bundle of photo-copies with you...

[CoolBreeze]

There are a couple of ways. A while ago, i worked in Porsche in the Marketing and PR Department. It's stressful and long hard work, as many say, you have to start at the bottom. 

 

For example, I was given the task to handle car launches, car test drivers, various promotions and events, and finally, to handle track days and racing days. Here, it's unique. You are given a lump sum of a budget to work on various stuff, such as catering food, bring in professional drivers, in my case, Porsche Carrera Cup Asia drivers, handling the logistics of the drivers and teams, etc. 

 

From there on, you graduate, work yourself towards a marketing and PR manager, then either it's a jump to the racing section, or a jump to regional posts. In my case, the racing section was Porsche China, whereby the whole Asian racing section was based, run by a French manager, i can't recall his name. From here, again, it requires lots of travelling and deadlines, and hopefully you branch out towards the european side, and then the big cake would be Le Mans. 

 

It's not easy task, and honestly it would be better off if you are single. During track and racing days, i remember working in Sepang right till about 4 am, then heading back home to freshen up, and back to the circuit at 7 am. 

[Dipster]

An interesting thread.

 

My opinion is that the very best way to "work" in F1 is to decide to do so and accept that nobody hires anybody for any responsible job in any industry (and I think any role in F1 will carry responsibility to a team who want to win) if they have no relevant experience.  

 

So get into racing in whatever capacity you are attracted to. Any racing. At any level. That way you will see if you are as good as you imagine. If you are, persevere. If, whilst gaining experience, you are very good you may get noticed and new opportunities may open for you. If not you will probably have a great time and make lots of new mates anyway.

 

But do not do what most modern youngsters seem to do-that is expect to immediately de-throne those doing the job you covet. 

 

Alternatively get out in the world and make a load of money and buy your way in. F1 needs engineers and loads of money..............

[danmills]

Hate to say I told you so...

 

http://www.hellou.co...obseekers-3313/

[oetzi]

Red Bull were advertising for a social media/hospitality person in Marketing Week recently. Included some race travel and stuff. No idea if it's still open.

[alfsboy]

Try becoming a gopher weekends.

[ardbeg]

Best way is to know people. Call up Alonso, or Newey, and hang out a bit, have some beers, go to a nudie bar. Next thing you know you're hired!

[Cyanide]

Hate to say I told you so...

 

http://www.hellou.co...obseekers-3313/

 

Oh, you enlightened me now. Thank you for the encouragement, the world needs more people like you to tell graduates their degrees are worthless and that jobs are scarce or difficult to get. Like we don't hear enough of that 24/7.  

 

 

Red Bull were advertising for a social media/hospitality person in Marketing Week recently. Included some race travel and stuff. No idea if it's still open.

 

I applied to that since I worked in hospitality before. Red Bull are generally more accessible but competition is intense, especially since they usually advertise for one spot only. 

[oetzi]

I applied to that since I worked in hospitality before. Red Bull are generally more accessible but competition is intense, especially since they usually advertise for one spot only. 

Have you thought about maybe getting into the Red Bull marketing machine from another angle then trying to shift across? They have many tentacles, you should be able to find a way in if you want to.

 

An example from a different angle: the daughter of a friend got into 'working in (well, with really) F1' by starting as a runner at the BBC, wriggling over to the Sport department, getting a job at Sky on the football side, then volunteering for al the hassle and travel most people don't want when they got the rights to F1. That kind of route should be easily possible within Red Bull.

[grandmastashi]

Give up your spare time and get experience by offering to help a small team for free. Build up connections and you'll build up your CV. It's probably not what you want to hear but small teams don't have budgets for promotion so if you can be their go to person. You'll get motorsport experience behind you and this will make you more attractive to teams higher up.

 

Also think outside the box, look at organisations with links into motorsport and see if they have any vacancies and get in that way. 

 

About seven/eight years ago I was writing a press release that later appeared in Autosport about the launch of GP2 Asia, with a quote I wrote from Bernie supporting it... all from my bedroom at my mum's house! This was because I put myself out there and did work for free. Later ended up working at a couple of BTCC, WTCC and LMS teams (paid!) as PR which was fab. I'm out of it now, but it was great whilst it lasted. 

 

Also, whatever you do, avoid a certain PR agency in Bedfordshire like the plague,... DM me if you want their name.