182 replies to this topic

[AlexS]

http://www.omnicorse...colpa-della-fia

 

- FIA let the engine setup in condition "launch" for the first laps in Ferrari engines. This affected all Ferrari engines in one way or another at least is what says the text

 

- FIA will introduce a fix to DRS system for Sepang that made Kimi unable to use it.

 

 

Scaletrix formula?

 

Edit: note that the article is written with a question mark. 

Edited by AlexS, 23 March 2014 - 23:53.

[warp]

This could be serious... But then, why aren't all the Ferrari powered teams complaining or making a big fuss?

 

The FIA should go back to just monitoring the sport, not actually controlling things on the cars.

[SCHUEYFAN]

The translation was poor but if true then the first race was truly a debacle.  Unfortunately there's little Ferrari could have done because protesting the race wouldn't have changed the results.  I really hope the FIA comes clean and issues a press release and if this is true then there is hope our woes are not as large as many believe!

[Burtros]

If its true it begs all sorts of questions - the silence from Ferrari on the matter being one, the second being the rights and wrongs of the FIA controlling things like they are.

 

My thoughts, if true are;

 

Ferrari are impossible to judge in their reactions. Equally, the generosity of the governing body towards them has always been high, so Im sure it would be 'overcome'.

 

The FIA controlling aspects of the cars isnt something I like at the best of times. However, one race in and we already have problems and challenges connected to it, now potentially this too. To me its a step to far, and Im not one of those against the new PU or the noise.

[Seanspeed]

Can somebody with good English translate this for us? I have no idea what the OP is trying to say. No offense or anything, honestly.

[warp]

Can somebody with good English translate this for us? I have no idea what the OP is trying to say. No offense or anything, honestly.

 

Sorry, I'm too lazy to translate all, but in a nutshell, it has came to light that the FIA actually controls the MGUK on cars to activate only after the cars have reached 100kmh during the start of the race. It;s in the regulations (or so the article says).

 

It turns out that this "launch" setting was not deactivated by the FIA on all Ferrari powered cars until after a few laps, making Ferrari teams unable to use the MUGK.

 

After it was reactivated, the hybrid system was running in a protective mode that requires the driver to follow a procedure to bring up the electric motors. Alonso could not do it until the first pit stop, so he was short of 120hp for 33s a lap until then, according to the article.

 

Kimi had issues with the DRS on top of that. 

[Seanspeed]

Sorry, I'm too lazy to translate all, but in a nutshell, it has came to light that the FIA actually controls the MGUK on cars to activate only after the cars have reached 100kmh during the start of the race. It;s in the regulations (or so the article says).
 
It turns out that this "launch" setting was not deactivated by the FIA on all Ferrari powered cars until after a few laps, making Ferrari teams unable to use the MUGK.
 
After it was reactivated, the hybrid system was running in a protective mode that requires the driver to follow a procedure to bring up the electric motors. Alonso could not do it until the first pit stop, so he was short of 120hp for 33s a lap until then, according to the article.
 
Kimi had issues with the DRS on top of that.

Wow. Ok.

Thanks for giving us the gist there. Not sure what to make of it, other than to hope its just a bad rumor, cuz I cant see Ferrari being so quiet about something like that.

[Massa]

I don't think it's true because if it was, Ferrari would have contest the result of the GP.

Edited by Massa, 24 March 2014 - 00:01.

[discover23]

What is MgUk?
Is this a reliable source?

[turssi]

Yeah, I don't speak Italian, but reading it anyway based on Portuguese and Spanish this Omnicorse speculates on a software bug or other incompability with the FIA control signals that kept the Ferrari Power Units unable to run MGU-K as intended and also made Kimi's DRS unavailable.

Edited by turssi, 24 March 2014 - 00:15.

[OO7]

What is MgUk?
Is this a reliable source?

MGU-K stands for Motor Generator Unit - Kinetic.  It is the electric motor that is used to harness energy from the wheels while braking (energy recovery mode) and can add up to 161hp to the rear wheels while accelerating (generator mode).

[warp]

What is MgUk?
Is this a reliable source?

 

Motor Generator Unit - Kinetic

Part of the Energy Recovery systems.

[Farhannn15]

Sorry, I'm too lazy to translate all, but in a nutshell, it has came to light that the FIA actually controls the MGUK on cars to activate only after the cars have reached 100kmh during the start of the race. It;s in the regulations (or so the article says).

 

It turns out that this "launch" setting was not deactivated by the FIA on all Ferrari powered cars until after a few laps, making Ferrari teams unable to use the MUGK.

 

After it was reactivated, the hybrid system was running in a protective mode that requires the driver to follow a procedure to bring up the electric motors. Alonso could not do it until the first pit stop, so he was short of 120hp for 33s a lap until then, according to the article.

 

Kimi had issues with the DRS on top of that. 

Being short of 120bhp for 33s a lap, Alonso would've tumbled down the field no matter how slow the other cars were

[Brother Fox]

Thanks for the translation/summary warp

Next question is, what is the reputation of Omni corse like? (Might be a stupid question to some but I have no idea)

[discover23]

Thank you both. More fancy acronyms that I have to familiarize myself with.

Edited by discover23, 24 March 2014 - 00:20.

[teejay]

Alonso down 120hp for 33s a lap... he would of been nowhere near where he was

[Tapz63]

Yh im not buying this. Surely Ferrari would have mentioned it.

[Atreiu]

Ferrari involving scandals are never this quiet.

[warp]

Yeah, sounds fishy to me too. As the original poster says, the article is written with a question mark. They say things, happened, but also wonder why Ferrari powered teams are not making an issue  out of it.

[AlexS]

Omnicorse is reputable. 

[AlexS]

 

They say things, happened, but also wonder why Ferrari powered teams are not making an issue out of it.

If true, and the DRS issue is stated clearly , one possible reason is because it not fixable. What FIA could have done to fix it?

So it will be political capital.

[Disgrace]

Interesting nonetheless. It's all been kept remarkably quiet if true, probably too quiet.

[Risil]

cuz I cant see Ferrari being so quiet about something like that.

 

Don't you mean Red Bull? 

[shonguiz]

Why on earth is FIA allowed to touch the cars ? They only have to monitor things, not to take part in the actual process of managing the car.

[Andrew Hope]

It used to be Ferrari International Assistance.

 

Now it's ****ery In Australia.

[halifaxf1fan]

Now I see why Ricciardo was dq'd, to give Ferrari a points boost for their troubles.

[lbennie]

First the faulty fuel flow censors, now this.

 

Comedy hour from the FIA.

[sneaker91]

Get rid of fuel flow limit is the easy solution.

 

Why have a fuel flow limit when you are already limited on fuel is pointless imo.

Edited by sneaker91, 24 March 2014 - 02:22.

[john_smith]

Being short of 120bhp for 33s a lap, Alonso would've tumbled down the field no matter how slow the other cars were

 

MGU-K is just one part of the ERS - the batteries would still have been charged by MGU-H (turbos).

 

so even if this story is true then Alonso wouldn't have lost all of the effects of ERS.

[turssi]

@sneakers91: the flow limit prevents them from doing completely different monster qualifying setup for the power units, that's why it's there.

[Brother Fox]

But wouldn't that be less likely with the limited number of engines for the year.

[Richard T]

@sneakers91: the flow limit prevents them from doing completely different monster qualifying setup for the power units, that's why it's there.

Yes but wouldn't it be totally awesome? To have 1000hp in qualy?

[baddog]

I dont believe it because ferrari would be spewing.

[shonguiz]

@sneakers91: the flow limit prevents them from doing completely different monster qualifying setup for the power units, that's why it's there.

What's wrong with that ? Safety reasons ?

[beute]

must be a mistake on ferraris side if true.
otherwise thes would have told us right away.

[Lazy]

Like people have said, they would have been overtaken by everyone if the mguk wasn't working. They also would have said something.

[lbennie]

@sneakers91: the flow limit prevents them from doing completely different monster qualifying setup for the power units, that's why it's there.

 

Jeez that would be terrible. Won't somebody think of the children. 

 

If the teams want to risk them going boom more power to them imo.

[FirstWatt]

MGU-K is just one part of the ERS - the batteries would still have been charged by MGU-H (turbos).

 

so even if this story is true then Alonso wouldn't have lost all of the effects of ERS.

With the exeption of being able to spool the turbo, it's a toal loss.

MGU means Motor-Generator Unit.

There is no use of a full Energy store if you can't deploy this energy through MGU-K - Internal Combustion Engine - drivetrain - wheels.

 

The story might be true, as we could easily spot that the DRS system, which is also controlled by FIA, didn't work properly on Kimi's car.

 

But contrary to what is written in the OmniCorse article, MGU-K does not deliver 120hp but 160hp (120kW), which are not allowed to be used during race start until the car has reached 100 km/h.

 

If the story is true, 20% of the possible PU power wasn't availabe because of the FIA system.

Edited by FirstWatt, 24 March 2014 - 07:06.

[Markn93]

If I recall correctly Alonso had trouble getting past Lewis and his 5 cylinders before he retired. Remember finding this odd and perhaps this explains why?

[Tomecek]

Sounds strange. Formula One car without MGU-K cannot use the energy stored, so Alonso and Raikkonen would be able to compete against GP2 cars in those two laps, not Formula One fellows.

[Galko877]

People should not believe everything they find on the Internet.

[johnmhinds]

Was there a dramatic increase in Alonso's lap times after his pit stop?

The description of the issue seems way too specific to just be a rumour.

[Gorma]

Sounds strange. Formula One car without MGU-K cannot use the energy stored, so Alonso and Raikkonen would be able to compete against GP2 cars in those two laps, not Formula One fellows.

The difference in race configuration isn't that big since the cars are running in self sustaining mode. The way I understood the article was that Alonso was running with the protection mode until the first pitstop.

[ExFlagMan]

It is an Italian magazine - for Ferrari fans, has to have an explanation of some sort to salve the frustration that they are not 1 & 2 in the championship.

I was under the impression that there is a launch map that in conjunction with the ECU controls what can be used during the launch phase.
If the article/speculation is true and it was a software problem then it has to be a Ferrari issue as they design/write/control the software outside the ECU, maybe their program forgot to check the ECU signal.
I cannot see how it would be controlled by a signal sent from Race Control as the switch is meant to be speed dependant.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 24 March 2014 - 08:17.

[PayasYouRace]

I think they would have lost a lot more performance if true.

 

Why do Ferrari have such consistent problems with their DRS though? It's been happening since 2011.

[275 GTB-4]

This is really getting to be pathetic....why don't Bernie just strip all the jiggery pokery out of F1 and run an F1 Clean and Green super Testicle team at Le Mans? 

 

If it hasn't already....this could be the death knell of years of successful Motor Sport

[slideways]

The ES is also used to spool the MGU-H, but missing K would be a huge difference to power to the ground. Vettel's car also failed to have K re-enabled after the start right? Not that I am saying it was due to FIA, or that I believe Alonso was running without K over the first stint.

[redreni]

The problems described seem a bit improbable because one would have expected him to be last if he couldn't deploy stored energy until the pitstop. And to the extent that things on the car weren't working (and we know that Kimi's DRS wasn't working because his admirers have been very keen that we should all bear that in mind when evaluating his performance) we don't know if that was the FIA's fault or the team's. Like Exflagman I am very surprised to hear that any part of ERS has to be activated by the FIA.

However if there is a problem with the interface between the FIA control systems (for DRS and for the MGU-K if that really is how it works) that is something the team needs to work with the FIA to resolve. They will need the FIA technical department to cooperate with them and put manpower on it. Maybe they have decided that embarrassing them in public would be a poor strategy.

When I have time I will take a closer look at Alonso's laptimes.

[Ferrari2183]

Was there a dramatic increase in Alonso's lap times after his pit stop?

The description of the issue seems way too specific to just be a rumour.

You won't get an answer from the lap time data because Alonso was being held up by Hulk. It was only in the final stint when he ran in clear air. Once Hulk pit he immediately went 2 seconds quicker though.

[Ferrari2183]

The problems described seem a bit improbable because one would have expected him to be last if he couldn't deploy stored energy until the pitstop. And to the extent that things on the car weren't working (and we know that Kimi's DRS wasn't working because his admirers have been very keen that we should all bear that in mind when evaluating his performance) we don't know if that was the FIA's fault or the team's. Like Exflagman I am very surprised to hear that any part of ERS has to be activated by the FIA.

However if there is a problem with the interface between the FIA control systems (for DRS and for the MGU-K if that really is how it works) that is something the team needs to work with the FIA to resolve. They will need the FIA technical department to cooperate with them and put manpower on it. Maybe they have decided that embarrassing them in public would be a poor strategy.

When I have time I will take a closer look at Alonso's laptimes.

Alonso was manually activating it. Is it possible that Ferrari are using a different version of the ECU software than Renault and Mercedes?